On April 10 2020 05:58 Waxangel wrote: I don't quite get why Super Tournament isn't getting its points back, though, if ESL is admitting that it SHOULD have awarded points. If you can retroactively take them away, it seems simple to retroactively add them back after realizing the error.
I get that TECHNICALLY not announcing points before an event can affect participation, but PRACTICALLY speaking everyone who played in Super Tournament qualifiers was going to have played regardless of the info.
Apollo says why: It wasn't communicated to the players before the qualifiers. This is very simple principle. All players should know beforehand exactly what is at stake.
hence my last line
I understand the technicality the points were removed on, but given the history of the ST always having points, and the other stakes of the super tournament (money, prestige, blah blah) the practical reality is that ESL points probably would have had zero impact on participation (i.e.: There's no player who didn't try to qualify for ST because there were no points announced at the time)
So you don't think ESL should have a consistent policy in place first for how they hand out points tournaments, but rather hand them out to tournaments based on criteria such as "always had points before", "zero impact on participation" or "all players got a chance to participate" in the meantime?
It seems obvious ESL didn't think through this one properly. Maybe they were busy planning the season at large and whatnot. Hopefully there will be a smart policy in place that allows all tournaments to apply for handing out points. The more the merrier! But yeah, preferably tournaments get to hand out points based on a transparent process, not because of being buddies or or other subjective arguments.
On April 10 2020 10:00 greyhoundz wrote: It's unfair that Super Tournament players were not awarded ESL points just because they were not notified beforehand. ST is a Premier Tournament.
God-level Korean titans and foreign players in Korea will work hard and die for it winning the ST. The qualifiers alone are stacked and looks like hell.
They treated ST1 as garbage tournament as if it was just a Wood and Paper League that nobody cares about. Yes, we all know it's a mistake, but a despicable one that caused this injustice.
I think they secretly hate Korean SC.. seriously... At this point there shouldn't even be a region lock, still coming up with excuses to shit on Koreans..
There isnt ANY good reason why in 2020 the ST gets NO points.
I'm seeing now being in charge of SC2 breeds stupidity..
They are a lot of conspiracy theories in sc2 community. Blizzard hating on T largely shared by the twitch chat/reddit trolls and then a official caster who insults players. Blizzard wanting to kill the korean scene while they actually supported it since at least 8 years. (2016 was a bad year with a lot of insults against players coming from the purists) And now same stuff with esl. At the end of the year, I bet Apollo will be the most hated figure.
I wonder who in his right mind would organize a new sc2 tournament off circuit with all the community outrage around the ept points.
Very happy about this statement from ESL. They acknowledge the mistakes and are learning from them, and they are trying to get some principles down to make sure it doesn't happen again. This is exactly what is needed: having some guiding principles means that you can have consistency, and that fans and players can guess in advance what is going to happen. On top of that, communication is of course key, which they also acknowledge.
All in all I think we can all be confident in them going forward. Remember that the EPT is only beginning this year so it's the first season for the organizers. Many problems will pop up that they have not yet dealt with. On top of that, corona crashed the party which completely screwed up the schedule. Let's cut them some slack and give them credit for acknowledging the problems.
That said, I'm kinda disappointed that Apollo doesn't post his statement on TL.net himself
Hm, I probably can't judge how badly this affects players and tournament organizers, but four month into the year and no plan? seems very disorganized. I always felt ESL was more professional. Notably, Apollo did not apologize for messing up (just for not communicating timely and for writing too much now )
So they basically created a new rule in order to justify their ridiculous decision not to award points for ST. Instead of correcting their mistake they again screwed the Koreans over. Very disappointed with Apollo...
On April 11 2020 18:06 MarianoSC2 wrote: So they basically created a new rule in order to justify their ridiculous decision not to award points for ST. Instead of correcting their mistake they again screwed the Koreans over. Very disappointed with Apollo...
Since the ETP points are divided in two regions, South Korea and the rest of the world, how do you figure the Koreans were screwed over again?
The WCS rukebook already had rules about handing out the WCS points, such as invites can be max 25% and contestant count must be 16 or more. Hopefully ESL redifines their rules now to have a similar clear section to make it easier for everyone to know what they consider EPT point worthy.
At the end of the year we will have people adding up the points and finding out if anyone would've made the cut if only they had awarded points in ST. We'll get over it.
Glad that ESL and Apollo took some time aside to explain the what the situation is and what's going on for them. From these statements it's clear ESL made quite a few mistakes (maybe we can call it mismanagement) in handling events and point distribution. However, given that they've spoken to the fans it also makes sense that they really not blunder further or this becomes a much larger mess. Glad they're focusing on getting guidelines out and properly updating their stuff.
Anyone who has ever tried to organize anything even half as complex as what Apollo and his team are doing will have some understanding here.
It sometimes takes a while to iron issues out with new projects, especially ones that are expected to run at 100% scale from day 1 with a team that is still getting used to working together.
I feel like they've made the right call regarding ST. Even if, to Waxangel's point, the absence of allocation didn't influence participation, it might have changed which strategies players deploy or how hard they prepare for it. If, as Apollo says, players were under the impression that there would be no points earned in the tournament, they should stick to that for the first one.
That aside, let's try and support the ESL team working hard to bring us some good Starcraft in the years to come. It's fine to call them out when they are screwing shit up, but when we fire off needless accusations, wild speculation, and careless assumptions after they've given us an update, it's embarrassing for all of us who are part of this otherwise quality community.
Thanks for the communication, Apollo. Unforeseen challenges are expected at the beginning of any huge project like this. I'm very excited to see what ESL can do for Starcraft in the years ahead.
To Starcraft fans: this stuff isn't easy, and they're picking up Blizzard's slack for us. Let's be grateful for that.
In a way, it's the beginning of a new landscape for SC2, and it’s going to take a strong community to keep this going for another 10 years. So let's work together yeah?
EPT
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