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On July 24 2018 13:05 Anc13nt wrote:
I think it is worth noting that players such as ByuN, Solar, Impact and Dear have 2018 season win-rates (against non-koreans) of 83.33%, 80.81%, 67.27% and 86.00% respectively. Putting these win-rates to perspective, I would not necessarily say that Serral is at the skill level of a top Korean (if you define it as being the very best players like Rogue and Maru). Nonetheless, by the standard of Koreans he would still be a very good player.
A car moving at 120 kmh (~75 mph) will kill a person on impact. Whether that car is a Honda Civic or a H1 Hummer is completely irrelevant.
Serral has a Korean-esque effect on foreigners. That just says he's a lot stronger than the other foreigners, which is NOT the same as saying he's as strong as the Koreans.
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Serral being 72–5 (93.51%) in bo3+ matches, and winning his last 34 of them against non-koreans since the 4.0 patch is also a pretty fun fact. Last loss being the one against Scarlett in IEM PyeongChang.
Cool article all in all.
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Yeah, I agree that there is probably a certain threshold of skill at which you will beat non-koreans at roughly around 80% win rate. Once skill increase beyond that threshold, there appears to be little return in terms of gains in win-rate (perhaps due to cheese, timings, etc) and I think that explains why good (but not the very best) korean players have similar win-rates against non-koreans as compared to the top koreans.
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Anc13nt put it very well. I wanted to say the same and, adding to it, that is the reason why comparing Serral's win rate vs foreigners to Maru's or Inno's is a proxy but it doesn't transfer 100% to predict how Serral would do against Maru, Inno, or top koreans from other races. these top koreans play a very different game from what Serral faces against foreigners
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I hope Serral gets to the final to play Maru and then loses 4-0. He'd have similar results to which he already has against Koreans this year, so I guess he'd still not be on par according to the unbelievers.
Nice article Wax. I think Serral has decent chances against Rogue which he already beat once, but Inno would be a tougher enemy.
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France13022 Posts
These stats are good but you have to remember that in order to play against other foreigners, he doesn't have to travel as much as Koreans.
Not only that, but he plays regularly against his WCS opponents which probably helps him destroy them even further.
What would happen if these Koreans you listed stayed together in a korean house in europe and were allowed to play in WCS? I think their winrate would get higher and Serral would not win as many tournaments (he'd still have a shot tho, depending on how many Koreans were to come!)
Interesting stats nonetheless, thank you for this article  will finish reading the other parts later
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I would put serral on a similar level to leenock right now. pretty fucking solid, but he isn't gonna beat maru in a boX
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France13022 Posts
On July 24 2018 18:06 SHODAN wrote:
I would put serral on a similar level to leenock right now. pretty fucking solid, but he isn't gonna beat maru in a boX
He is far better than Leenock
Leenock would be destroyed by many top foreigners (well maybe not destroyed but he'd lose)
And being elite level at sc2 is not only about being able to beat Maru in a BoX
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On July 24 2018 18:10 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2018 18:06 SHODAN wrote:
I would put serral on a similar level to leenock right now. pretty fucking solid, but he isn't gonna beat maru in a boX He is far better than Leenock Leenock would be destroyed by many top foreigners (well maybe not destroyed but he'd lose) And being elite level at sc2 is not only about being able to beat Maru in a BoX
Have you seen Leenock play recently? He is seriously looking like one of the top Zergs in Korea. I'd rate him similar to Solar, with only put Rogue and Dark and solidly above Leenock atm. Comparing him to Serral is a compliment to Serral
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United States33705 Posts
On July 24 2018 20:07 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2018 18:10 Poopi wrote:On July 24 2018 18:06 SHODAN wrote:
I would put serral on a similar level to leenock right now. pretty fucking solid, but he isn't gonna beat maru in a boX He is far better than Leenock Leenock would be destroyed by many top foreigners (well maybe not destroyed but he'd lose) And being elite level at sc2 is not only about being able to beat Maru in a BoX Have you seen Leenock play recently? He is seriously looking like one of the top Zergs in Korea. I'd rate him similar to Solar, with only put Rogue and Dark and solidly above Leenock atm. Comparing him to Serral is a compliment to Serral
Didn't we do this to Dear last season....
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Such impressive stats!
But you forgot to mention that Serral resembles the Koreans even in his interview skills 😆
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On July 24 2018 20:11 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2018 20:07 pvsnp wrote:On July 24 2018 18:10 Poopi wrote:On July 24 2018 18:06 SHODAN wrote:
I would put serral on a similar level to leenock right now. pretty fucking solid, but he isn't gonna beat maru in a boX He is far better than Leenock Leenock would be destroyed by many top foreigners (well maybe not destroyed but he'd lose) And being elite level at sc2 is not only about being able to beat Maru in a BoX Have you seen Leenock play recently? He is seriously looking like one of the top Zergs in Korea. I'd rate him similar to Solar, with only put Rogue and Dark and solidly above Leenock atm. Comparing him to Serral is a compliment to Serral Didn't we do this to Dear last season....
How dare you question the Artosis-endorsed hype train!
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On July 24 2018 20:22 Silvana wrote:
Such impressive stats!
But you forgot to mention that Serral resembles the Koreans even in his interview skills 😆
He's pretty good at imitating TaeJa to open the champagne too !
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I would like to see also Serral vs Koreans stats this year. I know there are only a few games, but are the percentage >50%? 60%?
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On July 24 2018 20:58 jarodtou wrote:
I would like to see also Serral vs Koreans stats this year. I know there are only a few games, but are the percentage >50%? 60%?
according to aligulac:
Under these filters, Serral is 20–13 (60.61%) in games and 9–4 (69.23%) in matches.
the best koreans he has beaten are probably maru, rogue and classic. this also includes matches against players like impact, TRUE, trust and creator, but you have to count those because guys like innovation are buffing up their records against low tier koreans as well
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On July 24 2018 21:51 brickrd wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2018 20:58 jarodtou wrote:
I would like to see also Serral vs Koreans stats this year. I know there are only a few games, but are the percentage >50%? 60%? according to aligulac: Show nested quote +Under these filters, Serral is 20–13 (60.61%) in games and 9–4 (69.23%) in matches. the best koreans he has beaten are probably maru, rogue and classic. this also includes matches against players like impact, TRUE, trust and creator, but you have to count those because guys like innovation are buffing up their records against low tier koreans as well
and impact is really good
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On July 24 2018 20:11 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2018 20:07 pvsnp wrote:On July 24 2018 18:10 Poopi wrote:On July 24 2018 18:06 SHODAN wrote:
I would put serral on a similar level to leenock right now. pretty fucking solid, but he isn't gonna beat maru in a boX He is far better than Leenock Leenock would be destroyed by many top foreigners (well maybe not destroyed but he'd lose) And being elite level at sc2 is not only about being able to beat Maru in a BoX Have you seen Leenock play recently? He is seriously looking like one of the top Zergs in Korea. I'd rate him similar to Solar, with only put Rogue and Dark and solidly above Leenock atm. Comparing him to Serral is a compliment to Serral Didn't we do this to Dear last season....
Yes, but every season we must have someone new to hype, it is tradition.
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On July 24 2018 20:11 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2018 20:07 pvsnp wrote:On July 24 2018 18:10 Poopi wrote:On July 24 2018 18:06 SHODAN wrote:
I would put serral on a similar level to leenock right now. pretty fucking solid, but he isn't gonna beat maru in a boX He is far better than Leenock Leenock would be destroyed by many top foreigners (well maybe not destroyed but he'd lose) And being elite level at sc2 is not only about being able to beat Maru in a BoX Have you seen Leenock play recently? He is seriously looking like one of the top Zergs in Korea. I'd rate him similar to Solar, with only put Rogue and Dark and solidly above Leenock atm. Comparing him to Serral is a compliment to Serral Didn't we do this to Dear last season....
Yes, but everybody was really confused by Dears games, in which he looked more lucky to be given the chance to exploit awkward mistakes by his opponents than super dominating. Leenock looked just incredible strong, barely losing to Maru and absolutely dominating Dear.
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On July 24 2018 18:10 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2018 18:06 SHODAN wrote:
I would put serral on a similar level to leenock right now. pretty fucking solid, but he isn't gonna beat maru in a boX He is far better than Leenock Leenock would be destroyed by many top foreigners (well maybe not destroyed but he'd lose) And being elite level at sc2 is not only about being able to beat Maru in a BoX
If this were still 2017 maybe, surprisingly Leenock appears to be returning to his 2011/2012 form. Don't know if I'd go full-Artosis and put him on Rogue's level just yet, but given how young Leenock still is, this could be him nearing his actual prime much like Maru.
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Congrats! Where is the foreign terran bonjwa already? We've seen multiple foreign zergs/protosses do this sort of thing in the past before but never have we seen a terran dominate like this? Why could this be?
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EPT
