• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 21:56
CET 03:56
KST 11:56
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book1Clem wins HomeStory Cup 287HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info3herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational14
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 26-Feb 1): herO, Clem, ByuN, Classic win2RSL Season 4 announced for March-April7Weekly Cups (Jan 19-25): Bunny, Trigger, MaxPax win3Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win0BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion8
StarCraft 2
General
Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book Clem wins HomeStory Cup 28 How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game? HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview Stellar Fest "01" Jersey Charity Auction
Tourneys
HomeStory Cup 28 $5,000 WardiTV Winter Championship 2026 RSL Season 4 announced for March-April PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 511 Temple of Rebirth The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 510 Safety Violation Mutation # 509 Doomsday Report
Brood War
General
Gypsy to Korea StarCraft player reflex TE scores [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates Can someone share very abbreviated BW cliffnotes? 2024 BoxeR's birthday message
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 1 Small VOD Thread 2.0 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Strategy
Zealot bombing is no longer popular? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Opel 1.7 DTI Y17DT Engine Diablo 2 thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread EVE Corporation Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread The Games Industry And ATVI Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Play, Watch, Drink: Esports …
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1463 users

GSL Code S Round of 16 Groups - Page 5

Forum Index > SC2 General
115 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
Cricketer12
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States13990 Posts
March 17 2016 01:16 GMT
#81
On March 17 2016 09:40 Alarak89 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 17 2016 07:07 Cricketer12 wrote:
On March 17 2016 05:22 Alarak89 wrote:
On March 17 2016 04:36 Charoisaur wrote:
On March 17 2016 04:23 Alarak89 wrote:
On March 17 2016 03:09 Charoisaur wrote:
On March 17 2016 02:05 Alarak89 wrote:
On March 16 2016 22:59 Grizvok wrote:
On March 16 2016 22:56 Alarak89 wrote:
On March 16 2016 21:01 Charoisaur wrote:
without Maru, INnoVation, PartinG, Life, sOs, Classic, Rain and Flash this looks quite lackluster compared to other ro16s.

I am pretty sure some of them will be back at gsl/ssl season 2 and dominate again. But some of them will never be back


It's just funny he says Flash when he was mediocre at SC2 his entire career.

I would say Flash was kind of OK during the year of 2013, or at least at the beginning of the HoTS. But after that, his performance slumped exponentially

he was only mediocre when compared to his BW standards. Just looking at his sc2 achievements (one of the best PL players in 2013/2014+ won a stacked IEM and got to the finals of an MLG and a HSC) he's easily top 10 terran all-time.

Oh yeah, he is definitely in top 10, or maybe even in top 5 Terran players. But I would say the performance level between top 3 Terran players (by top 3, you know who I mean) and the rest is HUGE, also there were so many "better" Protoss and Zerg players in HoTS, so his performance was not quite impressive overall to me.

I'm pretty sure if he had no BW success and his SC2 achievements would be all he had it would be generally seen as quite impressive.

Maybe you're right, I don't watch BW games so I don't know Flash before. IMO he might be among top 20 greatest players in SC2, but definitely not in top 10.

Just no...

OK then let me rephrase my words, maybe Flash is among top 30 greatest SC2 players, satisfied now?

No....
Chain 1 Arthalion Chain 2 Urgula Chain 3 Mululu Chain 4 Lukias
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
March 17 2016 01:22 GMT
#82
On March 17 2016 09:40 Alarak89 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 17 2016 07:07 Cricketer12 wrote:
On March 17 2016 05:22 Alarak89 wrote:
On March 17 2016 04:36 Charoisaur wrote:
On March 17 2016 04:23 Alarak89 wrote:
On March 17 2016 03:09 Charoisaur wrote:
On March 17 2016 02:05 Alarak89 wrote:
On March 16 2016 22:59 Grizvok wrote:
On March 16 2016 22:56 Alarak89 wrote:
On March 16 2016 21:01 Charoisaur wrote:
without Maru, INnoVation, PartinG, Life, sOs, Classic, Rain and Flash this looks quite lackluster compared to other ro16s.

I am pretty sure some of them will be back at gsl/ssl season 2 and dominate again. But some of them will never be back


It's just funny he says Flash when he was mediocre at SC2 his entire career.

I would say Flash was kind of OK during the year of 2013, or at least at the beginning of the HoTS. But after that, his performance slumped exponentially

he was only mediocre when compared to his BW standards. Just looking at his sc2 achievements (one of the best PL players in 2013/2014+ won a stacked IEM and got to the finals of an MLG and a HSC) he's easily top 10 terran all-time.

Oh yeah, he is definitely in top 10, or maybe even in top 5 Terran players. But I would say the performance level between top 3 Terran players (by top 3, you know who I mean) and the rest is HUGE, also there were so many "better" Protoss and Zerg players in HoTS, so his performance was not quite impressive overall to me.

I'm pretty sure if he had no BW success and his SC2 achievements would be all he had it would be generally seen as quite impressive.

Maybe you're right, I don't watch BW games so I don't know Flash before. IMO he might be among top 20 greatest players in SC2, but definitely not in top 10.

Just no...

OK then let me rephrase my words, maybe Flash is among top 30 greatest SC2 players, satisfied now?


I can probably name 15 players of each race of the top of my head that are more accomplished.
DonDomingo
Profile Joined October 2015
504 Posts
March 17 2016 01:23 GMT
#83
HYPE~~
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
March 17 2016 01:54 GMT
#84
On March 17 2016 10:22 Big J wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 17 2016 09:40 Alarak89 wrote:
On March 17 2016 07:07 Cricketer12 wrote:
On March 17 2016 05:22 Alarak89 wrote:
On March 17 2016 04:36 Charoisaur wrote:
On March 17 2016 04:23 Alarak89 wrote:
On March 17 2016 03:09 Charoisaur wrote:
On March 17 2016 02:05 Alarak89 wrote:
On March 16 2016 22:59 Grizvok wrote:
On March 16 2016 22:56 Alarak89 wrote:
[quote]
I am pretty sure some of them will be back at gsl/ssl season 2 and dominate again. But some of them will never be back


It's just funny he says Flash when he was mediocre at SC2 his entire career.

I would say Flash was kind of OK during the year of 2013, or at least at the beginning of the HoTS. But after that, his performance slumped exponentially

he was only mediocre when compared to his BW standards. Just looking at his sc2 achievements (one of the best PL players in 2013/2014+ won a stacked IEM and got to the finals of an MLG and a HSC) he's easily top 10 terran all-time.

Oh yeah, he is definitely in top 10, or maybe even in top 5 Terran players. But I would say the performance level between top 3 Terran players (by top 3, you know who I mean) and the rest is HUGE, also there were so many "better" Protoss and Zerg players in HoTS, so his performance was not quite impressive overall to me.

I'm pretty sure if he had no BW success and his SC2 achievements would be all he had it would be generally seen as quite impressive.

Maybe you're right, I don't watch BW games so I don't know Flash before. IMO he might be among top 20 greatest players in SC2, but definitely not in top 10.

Just no...

OK then let me rephrase my words, maybe Flash is among top 30 greatest SC2 players, satisfied now?


I can probably name 15 players of each race of the top of my head that are more accomplished.

I want to see that list (not that i necessarily disagree with that one, but you really have to factor in Flash's proleague performance as well, which was very good)
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
FrostedMiniWheats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States30730 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-17 02:01:40
March 17 2016 01:56 GMT
#85
On March 17 2016 09:40 Alarak89 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 17 2016 07:07 Cricketer12 wrote:
On March 17 2016 05:22 Alarak89 wrote:
On March 17 2016 04:36 Charoisaur wrote:
On March 17 2016 04:23 Alarak89 wrote:
On March 17 2016 03:09 Charoisaur wrote:
On March 17 2016 02:05 Alarak89 wrote:
On March 16 2016 22:59 Grizvok wrote:
On March 16 2016 22:56 Alarak89 wrote:
On March 16 2016 21:01 Charoisaur wrote:
without Maru, INnoVation, PartinG, Life, sOs, Classic, Rain and Flash this looks quite lackluster compared to other ro16s.

I am pretty sure some of them will be back at gsl/ssl season 2 and dominate again. But some of them will never be back


It's just funny he says Flash when he was mediocre at SC2 his entire career.

I would say Flash was kind of OK during the year of 2013, or at least at the beginning of the HoTS. But after that, his performance slumped exponentially

he was only mediocre when compared to his BW standards. Just looking at his sc2 achievements (one of the best PL players in 2013/2014+ won a stacked IEM and got to the finals of an MLG and a HSC) he's easily top 10 terran all-time.

Oh yeah, he is definitely in top 10, or maybe even in top 5 Terran players. But I would say the performance level between top 3 Terran players (by top 3, you know who I mean) and the rest is HUGE, also there were so many "better" Protoss and Zerg players in HoTS, so his performance was not quite impressive overall to me.

I'm pretty sure if he had no BW success and his SC2 achievements would be all he had it would be generally seen as quite impressive.

Maybe you're right, I don't watch BW games so I don't know Flash before. IMO he might be among top 20 greatest players in SC2, but definitely not in top 10.

Just no...

OK then let me rephrase my words, maybe Flash is among top 30 greatest SC2 players, satisfied now?


After all the players mentioned in Stuichiu's GOAT and HotS GOAT list. He'd be up against (in no particular order):

HerO, Dear, Symbol, HyuN, Curious, Solar, Stardust, Jaedong, San, Squirtle, First, Dream and probably several others I forgot.

This is factoring in his SPL results which is what's largely helping him here.
NesTea | Mvp | MC | Leenock | Losira | Gumiho | DRG | Taeja | Jinro | Stephano | Thorzain | Sen | Idra |Polt | Bomber | Symbol | Squirtle | Fantasy | Jaedong | Maru | sOs | Seed | ByuN | ByuL | Neeb| Scarlett | Rogue | IM forever
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany16033 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-17 02:11:15
March 17 2016 02:02 GMT
#86
On March 17 2016 10:22 Big J wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 17 2016 09:40 Alarak89 wrote:
On March 17 2016 07:07 Cricketer12 wrote:
On March 17 2016 05:22 Alarak89 wrote:
On March 17 2016 04:36 Charoisaur wrote:
On March 17 2016 04:23 Alarak89 wrote:
On March 17 2016 03:09 Charoisaur wrote:
On March 17 2016 02:05 Alarak89 wrote:
On March 16 2016 22:59 Grizvok wrote:
On March 16 2016 22:56 Alarak89 wrote:
[quote]
I am pretty sure some of them will be back at gsl/ssl season 2 and dominate again. But some of them will never be back


It's just funny he says Flash when he was mediocre at SC2 his entire career.

I would say Flash was kind of OK during the year of 2013, or at least at the beginning of the HoTS. But after that, his performance slumped exponentially

he was only mediocre when compared to his BW standards. Just looking at his sc2 achievements (one of the best PL players in 2013/2014+ won a stacked IEM and got to the finals of an MLG and a HSC) he's easily top 10 terran all-time.

Oh yeah, he is definitely in top 10, or maybe even in top 5 Terran players. But I would say the performance level between top 3 Terran players (by top 3, you know who I mean) and the rest is HUGE, also there were so many "better" Protoss and Zerg players in HoTS, so his performance was not quite impressive overall to me.

I'm pretty sure if he had no BW success and his SC2 achievements would be all he had it would be generally seen as quite impressive.

Maybe you're right, I don't watch BW games so I don't know Flash before. IMO he might be among top 20 greatest players in SC2, but definitely not in top 10.

Just no...

OK then let me rephrase my words, maybe Flash is among top 30 greatest SC2 players, satisfied now?


I can probably name 15 players of each race of the top of my head that are more accomplished.

okay then name 15 terrans that are more accomplished than Flash

HerO, Dear, Symbol, HyuN, Curious, Solar, Stardust, Jaedong, San, Squirtle, First, Dream and probably several others I forgot.

I think only Dear, HerO, Hyun and maybe Jaedong had better results than Flash
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-17 02:44:39
March 17 2016 02:43 GMT
#87
On March 17 2016 11:02 Charoisaur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 17 2016 10:22 Big J wrote:
On March 17 2016 09:40 Alarak89 wrote:
On March 17 2016 07:07 Cricketer12 wrote:
On March 17 2016 05:22 Alarak89 wrote:
On March 17 2016 04:36 Charoisaur wrote:
On March 17 2016 04:23 Alarak89 wrote:
On March 17 2016 03:09 Charoisaur wrote:
On March 17 2016 02:05 Alarak89 wrote:
On March 16 2016 22:59 Grizvok wrote:
[quote]

It's just funny he says Flash when he was mediocre at SC2 his entire career.

I would say Flash was kind of OK during the year of 2013, or at least at the beginning of the HoTS. But after that, his performance slumped exponentially

he was only mediocre when compared to his BW standards. Just looking at his sc2 achievements (one of the best PL players in 2013/2014+ won a stacked IEM and got to the finals of an MLG and a HSC) he's easily top 10 terran all-time.

Oh yeah, he is definitely in top 10, or maybe even in top 5 Terran players. But I would say the performance level between top 3 Terran players (by top 3, you know who I mean) and the rest is HUGE, also there were so many "better" Protoss and Zerg players in HoTS, so his performance was not quite impressive overall to me.

I'm pretty sure if he had no BW success and his SC2 achievements would be all he had it would be generally seen as quite impressive.

Maybe you're right, I don't watch BW games so I don't know Flash before. IMO he might be among top 20 greatest players in SC2, but definitely not in top 10.

Just no...

OK then let me rephrase my words, maybe Flash is among top 30 greatest SC2 players, satisfied now?


I can probably name 15 players of each race of the top of my head that are more accomplished.

okay then name 15 terrans that are more accomplished than Flash

Show nested quote +
HerO, Dear, Symbol, HyuN, Curious, Solar, Stardust, Jaedong, San, Squirtle, First, Dream and probably several others I forgot.

I think only Dear, HerO, Hyun and maybe Jaedong had better results than Flash


These ten are obvious. Like, if you want to argue about that, I'm not even going to read it. Go to their result pages, then go to Flash's result page.
Mvp, MMA, INnoVation, Maru, Polt, Taeja, Bomber, jjakji, MarineKing, Dream

After that ranking becomes really hard without a system (which in itself goes to show how little flash accomplished). You'll have to start comparing what's more important, two Ro4 GSL or one non-GSL tournament win. 15 GSL seasons or a top 10 rank in alltime proleague statistics. And so on. Anyways, Flash is somewhere in a bulk of players with Puma, Gumiho, aLive, ForGG, Thorzain, Jinro and probably a few others I'm forgetting or I'm to lazy to look up.
MoonyD
Profile Joined December 2013
Australia191 Posts
March 17 2016 02:51 GMT
#88
I can probably name 15 players of each race of the top of my head that are more accomplished.[/QUOTE]
okay then name 15 terrans that are more accomplished than Flash

Challenge accepted!

15 terrans who are/were better than Flash:
MVP, MarineKing, Jjaki, Dream, Innovation, Taeja, TY, MMA, Polt, Maru,

If you count 'consistency':
Bomber (Redbull and Code S), Gumiho (SPL/Code S), Bbyong (SPL), Puma (Back in WoL) and SpeeD (if you believe in the hype) hahaha.
The world wants to be deceived
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
March 17 2016 02:54 GMT
#89
On March 17 2016 11:43 Big J wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 17 2016 11:02 Charoisaur wrote:
On March 17 2016 10:22 Big J wrote:
On March 17 2016 09:40 Alarak89 wrote:
On March 17 2016 07:07 Cricketer12 wrote:
On March 17 2016 05:22 Alarak89 wrote:
On March 17 2016 04:36 Charoisaur wrote:
On March 17 2016 04:23 Alarak89 wrote:
On March 17 2016 03:09 Charoisaur wrote:
On March 17 2016 02:05 Alarak89 wrote:
[quote]
I would say Flash was kind of OK during the year of 2013, or at least at the beginning of the HoTS. But after that, his performance slumped exponentially

he was only mediocre when compared to his BW standards. Just looking at his sc2 achievements (one of the best PL players in 2013/2014+ won a stacked IEM and got to the finals of an MLG and a HSC) he's easily top 10 terran all-time.

Oh yeah, he is definitely in top 10, or maybe even in top 5 Terran players. But I would say the performance level between top 3 Terran players (by top 3, you know who I mean) and the rest is HUGE, also there were so many "better" Protoss and Zerg players in HoTS, so his performance was not quite impressive overall to me.

I'm pretty sure if he had no BW success and his SC2 achievements would be all he had it would be generally seen as quite impressive.

Maybe you're right, I don't watch BW games so I don't know Flash before. IMO he might be among top 20 greatest players in SC2, but definitely not in top 10.

Just no...

OK then let me rephrase my words, maybe Flash is among top 30 greatest SC2 players, satisfied now?


I can probably name 15 players of each race of the top of my head that are more accomplished.

okay then name 15 terrans that are more accomplished than Flash

HerO, Dear, Symbol, HyuN, Curious, Solar, Stardust, Jaedong, San, Squirtle, First, Dream and probably several others I forgot.

I think only Dear, HerO, Hyun and maybe Jaedong had better results than Flash


These ten are obvious. Like, if you want to argue about that, I'm not even going to read it. Go to their result pages, then go to Flash's result page.
Mvp, MMA, INnoVation, Maru, Polt, Taeja, Bomber, jjakji, MarineKing, Dream

After that ranking becomes really hard without a system (which in itself goes to show how little flash accomplished). You'll have to start comparing what's more important, two Ro4 GSL or one non-GSL tournament win. 15 GSL seasons or a top 10 rank in alltime proleague statistics. And so on. Anyways, Flash is somewhere in a bulk of players with Puma, Gumiho, aLive, ForGG, Thorzain, Jinro and probably a few others I'm forgetting or I'm to lazy to look up.

Jjakji and Gumiho are already arguable. Puma, Thorzain etc aren't at the same lvl as flash in sc2, no way
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
dNa
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Germany591 Posts
March 17 2016 03:03 GMT
#90
On March 16 2016 23:47 Elentos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 16 2016 23:43 dNa wrote:
Cure so underrated by most players, literally hasn't dropped a map yet since qualifiers. I really think he can win that group ^_^

Why would you arrive at the conclusion he's underrated by the other players? Nobody said he was easy to beat, and despite him being quiet for the entire show, he was the 3rd last player picked.


whelp, meant to say "most people", wrote that after waking up, my bad ;p
"a pitchfork is for hay. a trident is for killing bitches." -djwheat
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
March 17 2016 03:16 GMT
#91
On March 17 2016 11:54 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 17 2016 11:43 Big J wrote:
On March 17 2016 11:02 Charoisaur wrote:
On March 17 2016 10:22 Big J wrote:
On March 17 2016 09:40 Alarak89 wrote:
On March 17 2016 07:07 Cricketer12 wrote:
On March 17 2016 05:22 Alarak89 wrote:
On March 17 2016 04:36 Charoisaur wrote:
On March 17 2016 04:23 Alarak89 wrote:
On March 17 2016 03:09 Charoisaur wrote:
[quote]
he was only mediocre when compared to his BW standards. Just looking at his sc2 achievements (one of the best PL players in 2013/2014+ won a stacked IEM and got to the finals of an MLG and a HSC) he's easily top 10 terran all-time.

Oh yeah, he is definitely in top 10, or maybe even in top 5 Terran players. But I would say the performance level between top 3 Terran players (by top 3, you know who I mean) and the rest is HUGE, also there were so many "better" Protoss and Zerg players in HoTS, so his performance was not quite impressive overall to me.

I'm pretty sure if he had no BW success and his SC2 achievements would be all he had it would be generally seen as quite impressive.

Maybe you're right, I don't watch BW games so I don't know Flash before. IMO he might be among top 20 greatest players in SC2, but definitely not in top 10.

Just no...

OK then let me rephrase my words, maybe Flash is among top 30 greatest SC2 players, satisfied now?


I can probably name 15 players of each race of the top of my head that are more accomplished.

okay then name 15 terrans that are more accomplished than Flash

HerO, Dear, Symbol, HyuN, Curious, Solar, Stardust, Jaedong, San, Squirtle, First, Dream and probably several others I forgot.

I think only Dear, HerO, Hyun and maybe Jaedong had better results than Flash


These ten are obvious. Like, if you want to argue about that, I'm not even going to read it. Go to their result pages, then go to Flash's result page.
Mvp, MMA, INnoVation, Maru, Polt, Taeja, Bomber, jjakji, MarineKing, Dream

After that ranking becomes really hard without a system (which in itself goes to show how little flash accomplished). You'll have to start comparing what's more important, two Ro4 GSL or one non-GSL tournament win. 15 GSL seasons or a top 10 rank in alltime proleague statistics. And so on. Anyways, Flash is somewhere in a bulk of players with Puma, Gumiho, aLive, ForGG, Thorzain, Jinro and probably a few others I'm forgetting or I'm to lazy to look up.

Jjakji and Gumiho are already arguable. Puma, Thorzain etc aren't at the same lvl as flash in sc2, no way

Puma and Thorzain are both multiple Premier champions. Jjakji won a GSL (and had a few decent results afterwards that alone nearly match flash's premier performances)... last time I checked it was not possible to win something more important.
And I never said they were better players, I said they accomplished more/had better results. More recent players are always objectively better. Games evolve, Pele wouldnt even get to play for brazil these days. He is still the greatest.
BeStFAN
Profile Blog Joined April 2015
483 Posts
March 17 2016 03:33 GMT
#92
comparing flash to jjakji puma thorzain...

MARINEKING LOL...

...

if you want to account for an earlier more immature 2010-2011 era then i guess we better look at what flash was accomplishing in 2010 and 2011 :^)
❤ BeSt... ༼ つ ◕_◕༽つ #YEAROFKOMA #YEAROFKOMA #YEAROFKOMA ༼ つ ◕_◕༽つ
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-17 04:05:32
March 17 2016 04:02 GMT
#93
On March 17 2016 12:16 Big J wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 17 2016 11:54 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On March 17 2016 11:43 Big J wrote:
On March 17 2016 11:02 Charoisaur wrote:
On March 17 2016 10:22 Big J wrote:
On March 17 2016 09:40 Alarak89 wrote:
On March 17 2016 07:07 Cricketer12 wrote:
On March 17 2016 05:22 Alarak89 wrote:
On March 17 2016 04:36 Charoisaur wrote:
On March 17 2016 04:23 Alarak89 wrote:
[quote]
Oh yeah, he is definitely in top 10, or maybe even in top 5 Terran players. But I would say the performance level between top 3 Terran players (by top 3, you know who I mean) and the rest is HUGE, also there were so many "better" Protoss and Zerg players in HoTS, so his performance was not quite impressive overall to me.

I'm pretty sure if he had no BW success and his SC2 achievements would be all he had it would be generally seen as quite impressive.

Maybe you're right, I don't watch BW games so I don't know Flash before. IMO he might be among top 20 greatest players in SC2, but definitely not in top 10.

Just no...

OK then let me rephrase my words, maybe Flash is among top 30 greatest SC2 players, satisfied now?


I can probably name 15 players of each race of the top of my head that are more accomplished.

okay then name 15 terrans that are more accomplished than Flash

HerO, Dear, Symbol, HyuN, Curious, Solar, Stardust, Jaedong, San, Squirtle, First, Dream and probably several others I forgot.

I think only Dear, HerO, Hyun and maybe Jaedong had better results than Flash


These ten are obvious. Like, if you want to argue about that, I'm not even going to read it. Go to their result pages, then go to Flash's result page.
Mvp, MMA, INnoVation, Maru, Polt, Taeja, Bomber, jjakji, MarineKing, Dream

After that ranking becomes really hard without a system (which in itself goes to show how little flash accomplished). You'll have to start comparing what's more important, two Ro4 GSL or one non-GSL tournament win. 15 GSL seasons or a top 10 rank in alltime proleague statistics. And so on. Anyways, Flash is somewhere in a bulk of players with Puma, Gumiho, aLive, ForGG, Thorzain, Jinro and probably a few others I'm forgetting or I'm to lazy to look up.

Jjakji and Gumiho are already arguable. Puma, Thorzain etc aren't at the same lvl as flash in sc2, no way

Puma and Thorzain are both multiple Premier champions. Jjakji won a GSL (and had a few decent results afterwards that alone nearly match flash's premier performances)... last time I checked it was not possible to win something more important.
And I never said they were better players, I said they accomplished more/had better results. More recent players are always objectively better. Games evolve, Pele wouldnt even get to play for brazil these days. He is still the greatest.

Premier champions of tournaments in an way easier time period and tournaments with an easier competition compared to korean tournaments (or even weekend tournaments of today).
I absolutely believe you have to account for that when you wanna do a "best players of all time list" (or call it most accomplished)
Jjakji won a gsl in a time period where the lvl of play wasn't as strong, kespa wasn't even a thing in sc2 back then.
If we only look at results without any context you might be right, i simply think that is a bad way of doing this.
A GSL won in 2011 shouldn't be worth as much as a GSL won in 2015 imo. (not only because the lvl of play itself got way better, but also because of the kespa switch which basically forced the lvl to rise in a very short time period)
Which is also why i disagree with Pele being the greatest, but that is another topic^^

If we only ever look at titles / results alone then imagine if sc2 would have been played for 2 years in the west alone.
Like maybe 2009-2011. Let's say Idra would have won 90% of tournaments in that timeframe, would he really be regarded as the greatest even now? I don't think so.
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
munch
Profile Joined July 2014
Mute City2363 Posts
March 17 2016 04:37 GMT
#94
Go watch jjakji vs leenock and tell me that gameplay was weaker back then
WriterForm is temporary, MMA is permanent || http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/508630-article-archive
Riner1212
Profile Joined November 2012
United States337 Posts
March 17 2016 05:11 GMT
#95
TY! will be the new terran saviour! GO TERRAN!
Sjow "pretty ez life as protoss"
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
March 17 2016 05:13 GMT
#96
On March 17 2016 13:37 thecrazymunchkin wrote:
Go watch jjakji vs leenock and tell me that gameplay was weaker back then

It was. We see better gameplay in ro16 matches these days, which doesn't mean that it wasn't exciting to watch. Imo you mistake one for the other
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
Alarak89
Profile Joined January 2016
United States882 Posts
March 17 2016 05:29 GMT
#97
On March 17 2016 10:22 Big J wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 17 2016 09:40 Alarak89 wrote:
On March 17 2016 07:07 Cricketer12 wrote:
On March 17 2016 05:22 Alarak89 wrote:
On March 17 2016 04:36 Charoisaur wrote:
On March 17 2016 04:23 Alarak89 wrote:
On March 17 2016 03:09 Charoisaur wrote:
On March 17 2016 02:05 Alarak89 wrote:
On March 16 2016 22:59 Grizvok wrote:
On March 16 2016 22:56 Alarak89 wrote:
[quote]
I am pretty sure some of them will be back at gsl/ssl season 2 and dominate again. But some of them will never be back


It's just funny he says Flash when he was mediocre at SC2 his entire career.

I would say Flash was kind of OK during the year of 2013, or at least at the beginning of the HoTS. But after that, his performance slumped exponentially

he was only mediocre when compared to his BW standards. Just looking at his sc2 achievements (one of the best PL players in 2013/2014+ won a stacked IEM and got to the finals of an MLG and a HSC) he's easily top 10 terran all-time.

Oh yeah, he is definitely in top 10, or maybe even in top 5 Terran players. But I would say the performance level between top 3 Terran players (by top 3, you know who I mean) and the rest is HUGE, also there were so many "better" Protoss and Zerg players in HoTS, so his performance was not quite impressive overall to me.

I'm pretty sure if he had no BW success and his SC2 achievements would be all he had it would be generally seen as quite impressive.

Maybe you're right, I don't watch BW games so I don't know Flash before. IMO he might be among top 20 greatest players in SC2, but definitely not in top 10.

Just no...

OK then let me rephrase my words, maybe Flash is among top 30 greatest SC2 players, satisfied now?


I can probably name 15 players of each race of the top of my head that are more accomplished.

Don't forget to name 15 Protoss and Zerg players as well, I am just curious since I didn't watch WoL games
IMO there are only three terran, two zerg and five protoss players considered "greatest" HotS players, the rest are not in the same level compared to my "top 10" list
sOs is THE ONLY player I pay attention to
stuchiu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
March 17 2016 05:53 GMT
#98
On March 17 2016 14:13 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 17 2016 13:37 thecrazymunchkin wrote:
Go watch jjakji vs leenock and tell me that gameplay was weaker back then

It was. We see better gameplay in ro16 matches these days, which doesn't mean that it wasn't exciting to watch. Imo you mistake one for the other


Paralyze made a ro8, he was real not a figment of my imagination.
Moderator
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
March 17 2016 06:08 GMT
#99
On March 17 2016 14:53 stuchiu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 17 2016 14:13 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On March 17 2016 13:37 thecrazymunchkin wrote:
Go watch jjakji vs leenock and tell me that gameplay was weaker back then

It was. We see better gameplay in ro16 matches these days, which doesn't mean that it wasn't exciting to watch. Imo you mistake one for the other


Paralyze made a ro8, he was real not a figment of my imagination.

And Choya made a ro8 in 2011. Obviously there is always some form of variance in sc2, still. The lvl of play we have now is simply way higher, it's not even comparable.
We also have a lot more potential s class players these days, which is also a reason why i think Mvp's success isn't as impressive as people say (in the context of sc2 as a whole; obviously Mvp is still one of the greatest though, but the clear number one? I don't know about that)

But this is mainly about Flash in the context of all other sc2 players ever, imo he deserves a higher ranking than Puma for sure. Jjakji might be arguable because of his one code s win, but even there Flash probably edges him out imo.
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
bringBackDarkarChons
Profile Joined January 2015
Japan5 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-17 06:14:09
March 17 2016 06:13 GMT
#100
imo Taeja already won last night even if he goes 0:4 later.
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
PiGosaur Cup #63
CranKy Ducklings127
Liquipedia
The PiG Daily
20:50
Best Games
Maru vs Solar
Reynor vs TriGGeR
herO vs Solar
Clem vs TriGGeR
Maru vs TBD
PiGStarcraft621
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft621
RuFF_SC2 183
NeuroSwarm 120
Nina 57
PiLiPiLi 2
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 203
NaDa 53
Hyuk 51
Icarus 8
Dota 2
monkeys_forever346
League of Legends
C9.Mang0419
Counter-Strike
m0e_tv445
Foxcn315
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox561
Mew2King135
Other Games
tarik_tv9352
summit1g6970
JimRising 559
Maynarde130
ViBE126
KnowMe72
ZombieGrub12
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1969
BasetradeTV119
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta31
• iHatsuTV 1
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 29
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22266
League of Legends
• Doublelift4699
• Scarra1611
Upcoming Events
RongYI Cup
8h 5m
herO vs Maru
Replay Cast
21h 5m
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 9h
OSC
1d 21h
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
The PondCast
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS4
HSC XXVIII
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Rongyi Cup S3
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W8
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
WardiTV Winter 2026
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
FISSURE Playground #3
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.