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Greatest HotS Players of All Time: Part 1 - Page 8

Forum Index > SC2 General
158 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 6 7 8 All
joshie0808
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Canada1024 Posts
February 26 2016 00:18 GMT
#141
Thanks for the write up! Good reads
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55555 Posts
February 26 2016 00:18 GMT
#142
On February 26 2016 07:50 wjat wrote:
I think it would be funny to do a top3 for each matchup in HotS!!!

I'll give mine.

ZvZ: soO, Life, Soulkey
ZvP: soO, Life, ByuL
ZvT: Life, Dark, soO

PvP: Zest, sOs, PartinG
PvZ: sOs, Zest, Classic
PvT: PartinG, herO, sOs

TvT: forGG, Taeja, Maru
TvP: Maru, Innovation, Polt
TvZ: Innovation, Taeja, Dream

I am curious. what would be yours?

Is this by peak or by average?
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
Orr
Profile Joined February 2014
United States168 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-26 01:14:42
February 26 2016 00:19 GMT
#143
On February 26 2016 07:03 Ensiferum8 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2016 05:16 Orr wrote:
On February 26 2016 03:39 swissman777 wrote:
On February 25 2016 23:00 ZertoN wrote:
On February 25 2016 20:39 deacon.frost wrote:
On February 25 2016 20:32 ZertoN wrote:
On February 25 2016 09:06 wjat wrote:
The top 2 players for each race in hots were:

-Protoss: sOs, herO

-Zerg: Life, soO,

-Terran: Innovation, Maru.


1-Innovation 2-Life 3-sOs 4-soO 5-Maru 6-herO



byul should be really really close for zergs, but anyway you have done a good job, you just made a better list than this useless writer is gonna make


sOs has the biggest wins in his sleeve from HotS. His achievement list is bigger than Innovation's so if Innovation > Life, then the proper list would be sOs, Inno, Life. Though I think that with the number of tournaments Life visited he will get enough StuPoints to get over sOs.


not really. blizzcon has more prestige, but gsl/ssl is much more difficult to win. sos lacks such a championship for him to be even considered #1. innovation has 3 korean tournament victories and made another gsl final.


if you make a proper list that includes consistency, tournament difficulty, balance at the time and team league performance, the list should be as follows:

1. innovation
2. life
3. sos
4. zest
5. maru
6. hero
7. soo
8. taeja
9. classic
10. byul


Yet had bad blizzcon runs nevertheless. And he was absent from proleague in 2014and I am quite sure he would have been mediocre as he was not performing well as an acer player.


Impossible to say how he would have done in PL 2014 since he wasn't there. But your reasoning appears fundamentally flawed when considering the following;

In 2013 for STX he went 43-20 winning 68% of his games.
(Only 1 win behind Flash for most overall, w/ <60% win rate in all match-ups)

In 2015 for SKT he went 18-7 winning 72% of his games.
(#9 in overall wins due largely to not always being in the stacked lineup, w/ at least a 60% win rate in all match-ups)


While he unperformed relative to his S class standards while abroad (beginning early September, 2013), Aligulac shows he was already on the rebound and moving back up come early the following year (~mid April, 2014). His 'underachieving' time on ACER would be considered extraordinarily successful for most others (5 all-kills of 5 in a row each).

SKT clearly viewed him as a transformative player, who would thrive back in the KESPA training environment. Which is why they prioritized him as the biggest offseason PL acquisition before the start of 2015. He went 6-0 in R1 upon his PL return. And looked absolutely dominant in the process. Slipped a bit in the middle rounds while struggling with mechanical/meta game issues. And once fixed, ended R4 w/ a perfect 4-0 record. Defeated a hotter than-the-sun sOs in a hard fought and decisive G4 in the GF. Widely viewed coming in as the critical pivot one between the two best players on their respective teams.

If I had to guess based on his team league history, I'd say he would have excelled in PL 2014. There is only overwhelming evidence that supports (zero against) that he is a team league god.

*WCS Global Finals 2014 was a disgrace due to the constant lag outs and players being dropped from games (up until the GF). Would have been terrible if it was a minor tournament and that happened, let alone the biggest stage of all. Would hardly consider beating Hyun and then losing to Taeja (coming off his historical summer) in RO8 a 'bad run'. Some players, notably Inno were much more impacted than others by the repeated technical failures (he was visibly on the point of tears w/ frustration at the incessant glitches).

WCS Global Finals 2015. If crushing Zest 3-0 and then losing to eventual runner-up Life (current GOAT) in the RO8 in a close series where Life played out of his mind, is considered bad, then standards are unrealistic. Inno was the favorite going in, and if not for some bad decisions (should have stuck w/ his unbeatable mech) and unusual mistakes, could easily have won despite Life's incredible play.
dont forget that terrans were clearly UP during blizzcon, as show the previous 6 months of premier tournaments results.

And he would have demolished life if he played safe, since life can only all in and is just awfull in a macro game


Likely Darwin Award recipient right here!
Flash I Jaedong I herO I Best I Maru I Rogue
FrostedMiniWheats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States30730 Posts
February 26 2016 00:57 GMT
#144
On February 26 2016 09:06 Charoisaur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2016 08:50 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
On February 26 2016 07:50 wjat wrote:
I think it would be funny to do a top3 for each matchup in HotS!!!

I'll give mine.

ZvZ: soO, Life, Soulkey
ZvP: soO, Life, ByuL
ZvT: Life, Dark, soO

PvP: Zest, sOs, PartinG
PvZ: sOs, Zest, Classic
PvT: PartinG, herO, sOs

TvT: forGG, Taeja, Maru
TvP: Maru, Innovation, Polt
TvZ: Innovation, Taeja, Dream

I am curious. what would be yours?


ZvZ: Life >= soO > Soulkey (Maybe Rogue or Dark over Soulkey)

ZvP: Life >= soO > Solar (Feel like ByuL is on the cusp)

ZvT: ByuL >= Dark > Life (ByuL had the best ling/bane ever in 2015 and heroically stood against mech TvZ)

==

PvP: Zest > Rain >= sOs (Zest's bread and butter of 2014 was his PvP)

PvZ: Rain >= Classic > Zest (least sure about this one)

PvT: PartinG > herO > Rain (PartinG is untouchable)

==

TvT: Bogus = Taeja = Flash (pretty much a triangle here; honorable mentions to TY and Bomber)

TvZ: Bogus>>>>>> Maru >= Taeja (Bogus is best TvZ player of all-time not just of HotS)

TvP: Maru > Polt > Bogus (Straightforward imo)


Life was always pretty bad at zvp most of his wins there came through cheese.
Same with Maru in tvz


For both Life and Maru they were only really bad in ZvP/TvZ respectively when comparing it to their other MUs. Relative to other Zergs/Terrans they were still top-tier. They consistently pulled an above-average level of wins where others of their race faltered against the best of the best. I don't think most of their wins came through cheese either, sure they'd do it quite frequently but they both totally had the solid foundations to play a standard game (remember Life's agonizing SH games against San and Zest at Blizzcon?). Rather, they were both just really aggressive.

Life ZvP

Maru TvZ
NesTea | Mvp | MC | Leenock | Losira | Gumiho | DRG | Taeja | Jinro | Stephano | Thorzain | Sen | Idra |Polt | Bomber | Symbol | Squirtle | Fantasy | Jaedong | Maru | sOs | Seed | ByuN | ByuL | Neeb| Scarlett | Rogue | IM forever
pure.Wasted
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada4701 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-26 01:07:37
February 26 2016 01:04 GMT
#145
On February 26 2016 08:50 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2016 07:50 wjat wrote:
I think it would be funny to do a top3 for each matchup in HotS!!!

I'll give mine.

ZvZ: soO, Life, Soulkey
ZvP: soO, Life, ByuL
ZvT: Life, Dark, soO

PvP: Zest, sOs, PartinG
PvZ: sOs, Zest, Classic
PvT: PartinG, herO, sOs

TvT: forGG, Taeja, Maru
TvP: Maru, Innovation, Polt
TvZ: Innovation, Taeja, Dream

I am curious. what would be yours?


ZvZ: Life >= soO > Soulkey (Maybe Rogue or Dark over Soulkey)

ZvP: Life >= soO > Solar (Feel like ByuL is on the cusp)

ZvT: ByuL >= Dark > Life (ByuL had the best ling/bane ever in 2015 and heroically stood against mech TvZ)

==

PvP: Zest > Rain >= sOs (Zest's bread and butter of 2014 was his PvP)

PvZ: Rain >= Classic > Zest (least sure about this one)

PvT: PartinG > herO > Rain (PartinG is untouchable)

==

TvT: Bogus = Taeja = Flash (pretty much a triangle here; honorable mentions to TY and Bomber)

TvZ: Bogus>>>>>> Maru >= Taeja (Bogus is best TvZ player of all-time not just of HotS)

TvP: Maru > Polt > Bogus (Straightforward imo)


Good list except IMO

TvZ Bogus >>> Taeja >>> Maru/Flash/Bomber/Dream/no one, really
TvP Maru >>> Polt >>> Bogus/TY
ZvT soO over Life (dunno others I skipped 2015)
PvT PartinG >>> Classic > herO
INna Maru-da-FanTa, Bbaby, TY Dream that I'm Flashing you
stuchiu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
February 26 2016 01:17 GMT
#146
I did think about writing an article about best player by matchup all time, but got stuck at PvP. Rain vs Zest.
Moderator
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany16009 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-26 02:25:46
February 26 2016 01:56 GMT
#147
On February 26 2016 10:17 stuchiu wrote:
I did think about writing an article about best player by matchup all time, but got stuck at PvP. Rain vs Zest.

I'd love to read that, just make it a tie between rain and zest.

Btw:
TvT: Mvp
TvZ:INnoVation
TvP: TaeJa
ZvZ: soO/NesTea
PvP: Zest/Rain
PvT: PartinG
ZvT: Life
PvZ: herO/Zest
ZvP: soO
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
Ragnarork
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
France9034 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-26 09:58:57
February 26 2016 09:57 GMT
#148
On February 26 2016 10:17 stuchiu wrote:
I did think about writing an article about best player by matchup all time, but got stuck at PvP. Rain vs Zest.


Haha. Conundrum.

There's still the mistake.

On February 26 2016 10:56 Charoisaur wrote:
TvP: TaeJa


I have nostalgic nerd chills thinking about IPL TAC 3 Finals now.
LiquipediaWanderer
RKC
Profile Joined June 2012
2848 Posts
February 26 2016 12:10 GMT
#149
I remember Maru's TvP being super solid and unbeatable in 2015. The likes of Zest and herO stood no chance. Until Rain came along and bopped him in GSL.
gg no re thx
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55555 Posts
February 26 2016 12:16 GMT
#150
On February 26 2016 21:10 RKC wrote:
I remember Maru's TvP being super solid and unbeatable in 2015. The likes of Zest and herO stood no chance. Until Rain came along and bopped him in GSL.

herO was one of the few Protosses who could keep up with Maru, actually. And PartinG reached the point where Maru was actually scared of playing him in GSL.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
wjat
Profile Joined August 2015
385 Posts
February 26 2016 12:54 GMT
#151
On February 26 2016 10:17 stuchiu wrote:
I did think about writing an article about best player by matchup all time, but got stuck at PvP. Rain vs Zest.


Maybe you could do 2 articles ? One about best player by matchup for WOL, then one for HotS

Would give us something nice to read

RKC
Profile Joined June 2012
2848 Posts
February 26 2016 13:10 GMT
#152
On February 26 2016 21:54 wjat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2016 10:17 stuchiu wrote:
I did think about writing an article about best player by matchup all time, but got stuck at PvP. Rain vs Zest.


Maybe you could do 2 articles ? One about best player by matchup for WOL, then one for HotS

Would give us something nice to read



Nah, I rather stuchiu devote his energies to write a click-baity article about how the newly liberated LoTV is disrupting the gaming scene and ravaging into MOBA market share
gg no re thx
fx9
Profile Joined November 2013
117 Posts
February 26 2016 14:20 GMT
#153
inb4.....

1) Taeja 2) sOs 3) Life
fineeshinee
Profile Joined February 2016
1 Post
Last Edited: 2016-02-26 15:54:13
February 26 2016 15:53 GMT
#154
Bot edit.

User was banned for this post.
Apoteosis
Profile Joined June 2011
Chile820 Posts
February 27 2016 07:12 GMT
#155
On February 26 2016 10:17 stuchiu wrote:
I did think about writing an article about best player by matchup all time, but got stuck at PvP. Rain vs Zest.


elfi
Life won like 200k and didn't hire a proper criminal lawyer.
Edpayasugo
Profile Joined April 2013
United Kingdom2216 Posts
February 27 2016 21:08 GMT
#156
Innovation is number 1, no contest.
FlaSh MMA INnoVation FanTaSy MKP TY Ryung | soO Dark Rogue | HuK PartinG Stork State
DinosaurPoop
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
687 Posts
February 28 2016 15:04 GMT
#157
On February 27 2016 16:12 Apoteosis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2016 10:17 stuchiu wrote:
I did think about writing an article about best player by matchup all time, but got stuck at PvP. Rain vs Zest.


elfi


woah woah, we're talking about best player here, not about literal gods man
When cats speak, mice listen.
Orr
Profile Joined February 2014
United States168 Posts
February 28 2016 19:25 GMT
#158
On further pondering, I feel like Dear and Solar should have been really close to making the final cut. And definitely see the arguments for including either or both in the last slot or two. Dear for his stunning and short lived peak at the very top, and later resurrection to strength again. Solar for his incredible results overseas (against some impressive competition), while doing well in Korea too.

For me, these two Samsung stars are essentially in the same general tier as Polt, Bomber, Byul, and Soulkey (have to dock him for lack of results outside of his amazing second half of 2013, albeit was solid and unspectacular in GSL and PL in 2014).


*Honorable mentions to Hyun for his constant overseas results and Stats for his impressive Korean tournament results in the later stages of HOTS, and continual PL success.

**For that brief stretch in early-mid 2015, Dream really looked to be the next coming of Life. And strung together some of the most impressive wins against absolute top tier competition in both individual and team league play in Korea I've ever seen.
Flash I Jaedong I herO I Best I Maru I Rogue
Cricketer12
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States13990 Posts
March 03 2016 17:01 GMT
#159
On February 26 2016 10:56 Charoisaur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2016 10:17 stuchiu wrote:
I did think about writing an article about best player by matchup all time, but got stuck at PvP. Rain vs Zest.

I'd love to read that, just make it a tie between rain and zest.

Btw:
TvT: Mvp
TvZ:INnoVation
TvP: TaeJa
ZvZ: soO/NesTea
PvP: Zest/Rain
PvT: PartinG
ZvT: Life
PvZ: herO/Zest
ZvP: soO

TvT: Mvp
TvZ: TaeJa
TvP: Polt
PvP: Zest/Rain
PvT: Parting
PvZ: This is the one that bugs me.
ZvZ: soO
ZvT: Life
ZvP: Stephano?
Chain 1 Arthalion Chain 2 Urgula Chain 3 Mululu Chain 4 Lukias
Prev 1 6 7 8 All
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