• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 14:42
CET 20:42
KST 04:42
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview3RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2
Community News
BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion5Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)16Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns7[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 105
StarCraft 2
General
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview Stellar Fest "01" Jersey Charity Auction Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets When will we find out if there are more tournament SC2 Spotted on the EWC 2026 list?
Tourneys
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 $21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) OSC Season 13 World Championship SC2 AI Tournament 2026 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes
Brood War
General
BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion Fantasy's Q&A video [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 Small VOD Thread 2.0 Azhi's Colosseum - Season 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! Nintendo Switch Thread Mechabellum
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Physical Exercise (HIIT) Bef…
TrAiDoS
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1912 users

Greatest HotS Players of All Time: Part 1 - Page 8

Forum Index > SC2 General
158 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 6 7 8 All
joshie0808
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Canada1024 Posts
February 26 2016 00:18 GMT
#141
Thanks for the write up! Good reads
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55562 Posts
February 26 2016 00:18 GMT
#142
On February 26 2016 07:50 wjat wrote:
I think it would be funny to do a top3 for each matchup in HotS!!!

I'll give mine.

ZvZ: soO, Life, Soulkey
ZvP: soO, Life, ByuL
ZvT: Life, Dark, soO

PvP: Zest, sOs, PartinG
PvZ: sOs, Zest, Classic
PvT: PartinG, herO, sOs

TvT: forGG, Taeja, Maru
TvP: Maru, Innovation, Polt
TvZ: Innovation, Taeja, Dream

I am curious. what would be yours?

Is this by peak or by average?
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
Orr
Profile Joined February 2014
United States168 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-26 01:14:42
February 26 2016 00:19 GMT
#143
On February 26 2016 07:03 Ensiferum8 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2016 05:16 Orr wrote:
On February 26 2016 03:39 swissman777 wrote:
On February 25 2016 23:00 ZertoN wrote:
On February 25 2016 20:39 deacon.frost wrote:
On February 25 2016 20:32 ZertoN wrote:
On February 25 2016 09:06 wjat wrote:
The top 2 players for each race in hots were:

-Protoss: sOs, herO

-Zerg: Life, soO,

-Terran: Innovation, Maru.


1-Innovation 2-Life 3-sOs 4-soO 5-Maru 6-herO



byul should be really really close for zergs, but anyway you have done a good job, you just made a better list than this useless writer is gonna make


sOs has the biggest wins in his sleeve from HotS. His achievement list is bigger than Innovation's so if Innovation > Life, then the proper list would be sOs, Inno, Life. Though I think that with the number of tournaments Life visited he will get enough StuPoints to get over sOs.


not really. blizzcon has more prestige, but gsl/ssl is much more difficult to win. sos lacks such a championship for him to be even considered #1. innovation has 3 korean tournament victories and made another gsl final.


if you make a proper list that includes consistency, tournament difficulty, balance at the time and team league performance, the list should be as follows:

1. innovation
2. life
3. sos
4. zest
5. maru
6. hero
7. soo
8. taeja
9. classic
10. byul


Yet had bad blizzcon runs nevertheless. And he was absent from proleague in 2014and I am quite sure he would have been mediocre as he was not performing well as an acer player.


Impossible to say how he would have done in PL 2014 since he wasn't there. But your reasoning appears fundamentally flawed when considering the following;

In 2013 for STX he went 43-20 winning 68% of his games.
(Only 1 win behind Flash for most overall, w/ <60% win rate in all match-ups)

In 2015 for SKT he went 18-7 winning 72% of his games.
(#9 in overall wins due largely to not always being in the stacked lineup, w/ at least a 60% win rate in all match-ups)


While he unperformed relative to his S class standards while abroad (beginning early September, 2013), Aligulac shows he was already on the rebound and moving back up come early the following year (~mid April, 2014). His 'underachieving' time on ACER would be considered extraordinarily successful for most others (5 all-kills of 5 in a row each).

SKT clearly viewed him as a transformative player, who would thrive back in the KESPA training environment. Which is why they prioritized him as the biggest offseason PL acquisition before the start of 2015. He went 6-0 in R1 upon his PL return. And looked absolutely dominant in the process. Slipped a bit in the middle rounds while struggling with mechanical/meta game issues. And once fixed, ended R4 w/ a perfect 4-0 record. Defeated a hotter than-the-sun sOs in a hard fought and decisive G4 in the GF. Widely viewed coming in as the critical pivot one between the two best players on their respective teams.

If I had to guess based on his team league history, I'd say he would have excelled in PL 2014. There is only overwhelming evidence that supports (zero against) that he is a team league god.

*WCS Global Finals 2014 was a disgrace due to the constant lag outs and players being dropped from games (up until the GF). Would have been terrible if it was a minor tournament and that happened, let alone the biggest stage of all. Would hardly consider beating Hyun and then losing to Taeja (coming off his historical summer) in RO8 a 'bad run'. Some players, notably Inno were much more impacted than others by the repeated technical failures (he was visibly on the point of tears w/ frustration at the incessant glitches).

WCS Global Finals 2015. If crushing Zest 3-0 and then losing to eventual runner-up Life (current GOAT) in the RO8 in a close series where Life played out of his mind, is considered bad, then standards are unrealistic. Inno was the favorite going in, and if not for some bad decisions (should have stuck w/ his unbeatable mech) and unusual mistakes, could easily have won despite Life's incredible play.
dont forget that terrans were clearly UP during blizzcon, as show the previous 6 months of premier tournaments results.

And he would have demolished life if he played safe, since life can only all in and is just awfull in a macro game


Likely Darwin Award recipient right here!
Flash I Jaedong I herO I Best I Maru I Rogue
FrostedMiniWheats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States30730 Posts
February 26 2016 00:57 GMT
#144
On February 26 2016 09:06 Charoisaur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2016 08:50 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
On February 26 2016 07:50 wjat wrote:
I think it would be funny to do a top3 for each matchup in HotS!!!

I'll give mine.

ZvZ: soO, Life, Soulkey
ZvP: soO, Life, ByuL
ZvT: Life, Dark, soO

PvP: Zest, sOs, PartinG
PvZ: sOs, Zest, Classic
PvT: PartinG, herO, sOs

TvT: forGG, Taeja, Maru
TvP: Maru, Innovation, Polt
TvZ: Innovation, Taeja, Dream

I am curious. what would be yours?


ZvZ: Life >= soO > Soulkey (Maybe Rogue or Dark over Soulkey)

ZvP: Life >= soO > Solar (Feel like ByuL is on the cusp)

ZvT: ByuL >= Dark > Life (ByuL had the best ling/bane ever in 2015 and heroically stood against mech TvZ)

==

PvP: Zest > Rain >= sOs (Zest's bread and butter of 2014 was his PvP)

PvZ: Rain >= Classic > Zest (least sure about this one)

PvT: PartinG > herO > Rain (PartinG is untouchable)

==

TvT: Bogus = Taeja = Flash (pretty much a triangle here; honorable mentions to TY and Bomber)

TvZ: Bogus>>>>>> Maru >= Taeja (Bogus is best TvZ player of all-time not just of HotS)

TvP: Maru > Polt > Bogus (Straightforward imo)


Life was always pretty bad at zvp most of his wins there came through cheese.
Same with Maru in tvz


For both Life and Maru they were only really bad in ZvP/TvZ respectively when comparing it to their other MUs. Relative to other Zergs/Terrans they were still top-tier. They consistently pulled an above-average level of wins where others of their race faltered against the best of the best. I don't think most of their wins came through cheese either, sure they'd do it quite frequently but they both totally had the solid foundations to play a standard game (remember Life's agonizing SH games against San and Zest at Blizzcon?). Rather, they were both just really aggressive.

Life ZvP

Maru TvZ
NesTea | Mvp | MC | Leenock | Losira | Gumiho | DRG | Taeja | Jinro | Stephano | Thorzain | Sen | Idra |Polt | Bomber | Symbol | Squirtle | Fantasy | Jaedong | Maru | sOs | Seed | ByuN | ByuL | Neeb| Scarlett | Rogue | IM forever
pure.Wasted
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada4701 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-26 01:07:37
February 26 2016 01:04 GMT
#145
On February 26 2016 08:50 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2016 07:50 wjat wrote:
I think it would be funny to do a top3 for each matchup in HotS!!!

I'll give mine.

ZvZ: soO, Life, Soulkey
ZvP: soO, Life, ByuL
ZvT: Life, Dark, soO

PvP: Zest, sOs, PartinG
PvZ: sOs, Zest, Classic
PvT: PartinG, herO, sOs

TvT: forGG, Taeja, Maru
TvP: Maru, Innovation, Polt
TvZ: Innovation, Taeja, Dream

I am curious. what would be yours?


ZvZ: Life >= soO > Soulkey (Maybe Rogue or Dark over Soulkey)

ZvP: Life >= soO > Solar (Feel like ByuL is on the cusp)

ZvT: ByuL >= Dark > Life (ByuL had the best ling/bane ever in 2015 and heroically stood against mech TvZ)

==

PvP: Zest > Rain >= sOs (Zest's bread and butter of 2014 was his PvP)

PvZ: Rain >= Classic > Zest (least sure about this one)

PvT: PartinG > herO > Rain (PartinG is untouchable)

==

TvT: Bogus = Taeja = Flash (pretty much a triangle here; honorable mentions to TY and Bomber)

TvZ: Bogus>>>>>> Maru >= Taeja (Bogus is best TvZ player of all-time not just of HotS)

TvP: Maru > Polt > Bogus (Straightforward imo)


Good list except IMO

TvZ Bogus >>> Taeja >>> Maru/Flash/Bomber/Dream/no one, really
TvP Maru >>> Polt >>> Bogus/TY
ZvT soO over Life (dunno others I skipped 2015)
PvT PartinG >>> Classic > herO
INna Maru-da-FanTa, Bbaby, TY Dream that I'm Flashing you
stuchiu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
February 26 2016 01:17 GMT
#146
I did think about writing an article about best player by matchup all time, but got stuck at PvP. Rain vs Zest.
Moderator
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany16022 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-26 02:25:46
February 26 2016 01:56 GMT
#147
On February 26 2016 10:17 stuchiu wrote:
I did think about writing an article about best player by matchup all time, but got stuck at PvP. Rain vs Zest.

I'd love to read that, just make it a tie between rain and zest.

Btw:
TvT: Mvp
TvZ:INnoVation
TvP: TaeJa
ZvZ: soO/NesTea
PvP: Zest/Rain
PvT: PartinG
ZvT: Life
PvZ: herO/Zest
ZvP: soO
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
Ragnarork
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
France9034 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-26 09:58:57
February 26 2016 09:57 GMT
#148
On February 26 2016 10:17 stuchiu wrote:
I did think about writing an article about best player by matchup all time, but got stuck at PvP. Rain vs Zest.


Haha. Conundrum.

There's still the mistake.

On February 26 2016 10:56 Charoisaur wrote:
TvP: TaeJa


I have nostalgic nerd chills thinking about IPL TAC 3 Finals now.
LiquipediaWanderer
RKC
Profile Joined June 2012
2848 Posts
February 26 2016 12:10 GMT
#149
I remember Maru's TvP being super solid and unbeatable in 2015. The likes of Zest and herO stood no chance. Until Rain came along and bopped him in GSL.
gg no re thx
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55562 Posts
February 26 2016 12:16 GMT
#150
On February 26 2016 21:10 RKC wrote:
I remember Maru's TvP being super solid and unbeatable in 2015. The likes of Zest and herO stood no chance. Until Rain came along and bopped him in GSL.

herO was one of the few Protosses who could keep up with Maru, actually. And PartinG reached the point where Maru was actually scared of playing him in GSL.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
wjat
Profile Joined August 2015
385 Posts
February 26 2016 12:54 GMT
#151
On February 26 2016 10:17 stuchiu wrote:
I did think about writing an article about best player by matchup all time, but got stuck at PvP. Rain vs Zest.


Maybe you could do 2 articles ? One about best player by matchup for WOL, then one for HotS

Would give us something nice to read

RKC
Profile Joined June 2012
2848 Posts
February 26 2016 13:10 GMT
#152
On February 26 2016 21:54 wjat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2016 10:17 stuchiu wrote:
I did think about writing an article about best player by matchup all time, but got stuck at PvP. Rain vs Zest.


Maybe you could do 2 articles ? One about best player by matchup for WOL, then one for HotS

Would give us something nice to read



Nah, I rather stuchiu devote his energies to write a click-baity article about how the newly liberated LoTV is disrupting the gaming scene and ravaging into MOBA market share
gg no re thx
fx9
Profile Joined November 2013
117 Posts
February 26 2016 14:20 GMT
#153
inb4.....

1) Taeja 2) sOs 3) Life
fineeshinee
Profile Joined February 2016
1 Post
Last Edited: 2016-02-26 15:54:13
February 26 2016 15:53 GMT
#154
Bot edit.

User was banned for this post.
Apoteosis
Profile Joined June 2011
Chile820 Posts
February 27 2016 07:12 GMT
#155
On February 26 2016 10:17 stuchiu wrote:
I did think about writing an article about best player by matchup all time, but got stuck at PvP. Rain vs Zest.


elfi
Life won like 200k and didn't hire a proper criminal lawyer.
Edpayasugo
Profile Joined April 2013
United Kingdom2217 Posts
February 27 2016 21:08 GMT
#156
Innovation is number 1, no contest.
FlaSh MMA INnoVation FanTaSy MKP TY Ryung | soO Dark Rogue | HuK PartinG Stork State
DinosaurPoop
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
687 Posts
February 28 2016 15:04 GMT
#157
On February 27 2016 16:12 Apoteosis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2016 10:17 stuchiu wrote:
I did think about writing an article about best player by matchup all time, but got stuck at PvP. Rain vs Zest.


elfi


woah woah, we're talking about best player here, not about literal gods man
When cats speak, mice listen.
Orr
Profile Joined February 2014
United States168 Posts
February 28 2016 19:25 GMT
#158
On further pondering, I feel like Dear and Solar should have been really close to making the final cut. And definitely see the arguments for including either or both in the last slot or two. Dear for his stunning and short lived peak at the very top, and later resurrection to strength again. Solar for his incredible results overseas (against some impressive competition), while doing well in Korea too.

For me, these two Samsung stars are essentially in the same general tier as Polt, Bomber, Byul, and Soulkey (have to dock him for lack of results outside of his amazing second half of 2013, albeit was solid and unspectacular in GSL and PL in 2014).


*Honorable mentions to Hyun for his constant overseas results and Stats for his impressive Korean tournament results in the later stages of HOTS, and continual PL success.

**For that brief stretch in early-mid 2015, Dream really looked to be the next coming of Life. And strung together some of the most impressive wins against absolute top tier competition in both individual and team league play in Korea I've ever seen.
Flash I Jaedong I herO I Best I Maru I Rogue
Cricketer12
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States13990 Posts
March 03 2016 17:01 GMT
#159
On February 26 2016 10:56 Charoisaur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2016 10:17 stuchiu wrote:
I did think about writing an article about best player by matchup all time, but got stuck at PvP. Rain vs Zest.

I'd love to read that, just make it a tie between rain and zest.

Btw:
TvT: Mvp
TvZ:INnoVation
TvP: TaeJa
ZvZ: soO/NesTea
PvP: Zest/Rain
PvT: PartinG
ZvT: Life
PvZ: herO/Zest
ZvP: soO

TvT: Mvp
TvZ: TaeJa
TvP: Polt
PvP: Zest/Rain
PvT: Parting
PvZ: This is the one that bugs me.
ZvZ: soO
ZvT: Life
ZvP: Stephano?
Chain 1 Arthalion Chain 2 Urgula Chain 3 Mululu Chain 4 Lukias
Prev 1 6 7 8 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
IPSL
17:00
3rd Place
Bonyth vs DragOn
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
IndyStarCraft 218
SteadfastSC 134
JuggernautJason120
MindelVK 49
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 2678
Dewaltoss 144
firebathero 116
Barracks 94
Shuttle 65
Mong 43
ajuk12(nOOB) 10
HiyA 7
NaDa 7
Dota 2
qojqva2288
capcasts45
Counter-Strike
fl0m2999
byalli639
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu420
Other Games
summit1g4740
Grubby3204
FrodaN1088
crisheroes441
Fuzer 252
XaKoH 66
minikerr3
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2700
StarCraft 2
ComeBackTV 1591
Other Games
EGCTV1190
StarCraft 2
WardiTV897
angryscii 22
Other Games
BasetradeTV22
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• printf 39
• HeavenSC 38
• iHatsuTV 8
• Kozan
• Migwel
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• 80smullet 14
• FirePhoenix6
• Pr0nogo 3
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos2769
• TFBlade1159
Other Games
• imaqtpie1312
• WagamamaTV310
Upcoming Events
AI Arena Tournament
18m
BSL 21
18m
Mihu vs eOnzErG
Dewalt vs Sziky
Bonyth vs DuGu
XuanXuan vs eOnzErG
Dewalt vs eOnzErG
All-Star Invitational
7h 18m
MMA vs DongRaeGu
herO vs Solar
Clem vs Reynor
Rogue vs Oliveira
Sparkling Tuna Cup
14h 18m
OSC
16h 18m
Shameless vs NightMare
YoungYakov vs MaNa
Nicoract vs Jumy
Gerald vs TBD
Creator vs TBD
BSL 21
1d
Bonyth vs Sziky
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs XuanXuan
eOnzErG vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs DuGu
Dewalt vs Bonyth
IPSL
1d
Dewalt vs Sziky
Replay Cast
1d 13h
Wardi Open
1d 16h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 21h
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Big Brain Bouts
5 days
Serral vs TBD
BSL 21
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S1: W4
Big Gabe Cup #3
NA Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
OSC Championship Season 13
SC2 All-Star Inv. 2025
Underdog Cup #3
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W5
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Rongyi Cup S3
Nations Cup 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.