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On April 20 2015 00:04 TheAnarchy wrote:
Parting didnt make the top 15 due to the lack of results. His four premier where tier 2 or 3 events (only in homestory there were more than 3 koreans). In the blizzcon cup wich he came second he played only one korean and he lost (the final against creator).
So his only results that counts are 2 gsl finals and his homestory cupcup the rest is pretty bad.
I can barely understand what you are trying to mention but PartinG never lost to Creator in a finals and definitely not in some Blizzcon cup. PartinG actually made 3 Code S finals since GSL sees the 2014 WT as a legit GSL.
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On April 20 2015 01:24 Fuell wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2015 00:04 TheAnarchy wrote:
Parting didnt make the top 15 due to the lack of results. His four premier where tier 2 or 3 events (only in homestory there were more than 3 koreans). In the blizzcon cup wich he came second he played only one korean and he lost (the final against creator).
So his only results that counts are 2 gsl finals and his homestory cupcup the rest is pretty bad. I can barely understand what you are trying to mention but PartinG never lost to Creator in a finals and definitely not in some Blizzcon cup. PartinG actually made 3 Code S finals since GSL sees the 2014 WT as a legit GSL.
This is the only finals I can think of Creator beating Parting in. Parting lost Blizzard Cup (not to creator), but beat loads of Koreans on the way there. He won the WCS 2012 against Creator, and once again beat a bunch of Koreans to even get through the qualifiers.
They're both awesome though. :p
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Parting lost to Creator in WCS Korea Ro4 . Creator was the true champion of Blizzcon after beating Rain in the sickest PvP the world had ever seen, only to get blinked by Parting in the finals. :D
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On April 20 2015 01:15 Thax wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2015 21:58 The_Red_Viper wrote:On April 19 2015 21:35 negativedge wrote:On April 19 2015 21:26 lichter wrote:
i don't like polt myself but i'm surprised how many people don't like him you forget how many people exist who will put literally every kespa player over everyone not on a kespa team. It's not about Kespa, it's about preparation style tournaments > weekend tournaments Add: korean ones > foreign ones A real GOAT has to do well in both, preferably also in the korean edition. Polt won that one super tournament in 2011, his results after that in korea were just ok and decent. Sure he also won 3 wcs seasons, but let's be real, none of these tournaments is even remotely comparable with a gsl win or even semi final tbh. I don't wanna say that Polt doesn't deserve to be on a top 15 list, he probably does. But top 5? I'd say 3 WCS and being relevant for 5 years is *a lot* more impressive than 1 GSL (or whatever big name Korean tournament) and never really achieving anything again. This list isn't just about achievements, it's about legacy. It's about their lasting impact on the scene.
See that's why i hate that there is a foreign scene sometimes, haha.
Yes he won 3 WCS titles and is relevant in weekend tournaments (foreign ones)
But that's exactly WHY he is that relevant, he chose to play in easier competition.
I am not saying that he couldn't do decent in korea (at least that's not the point), but how valuable are these 3 WCS titles really? How valuable is it to be competitve in weekend tournaments where most of the gsl players don't even compete in?
I think it's a big problem to value players against each other, when they don't even compete against each other a lot of the time :/
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Overall I feel there's a little bias towards the later years of Starcraft, although in my opinion Innovation might deserve a higher spot, especially as one of his strengths is something that went unmentioned - teamleagues.
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To me the BEST 3 are MvP, Life, TaeJa.
These are the three players that you never count out in any tournament they enter, and had a real good chance of beating anyone they face, throughout WoL and HoTS.
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On April 20 2015 01:24 Fuell wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2015 00:04 TheAnarchy wrote:
Parting didnt make the top 15 due to the lack of results. His four premier where tier 2 or 3 events (only in homestory there were more than 3 koreans). In the blizzcon cup wich he came second he played only one korean and he lost (the final against creator).
So his only results that counts are 2 gsl finals and his homestory cupcup the rest is pretty bad. I can barely understand what you are trying to mention but PartinG never lost to Creator in a finals and definitely not in some Blizzcon cup. PartinG actually made 3 Code S finals since GSL sees the 2014 WT as a legit GSL.
Yeah i made some mistakes but the point is the same. By the way that second place in Gsl Global Championship 2014 is meaningless. He defeated hack, squirtle, DRG, fantasy, revival, mma and san (and he lost twice to zest). I will say none of them was top 20 at that time (maybe mma).
So his best results are two GSL second plase (Gsl blizzard cup and gsl tournament, non counting gsl championship wich is meaningless) and homestory cup (you can add gsl semis and iem tapei semis). The rest of the premiers are 3 tier tournaments.
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On April 20 2015 02:30 TheAnarchy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2015 01:24 Fuell wrote:On April 20 2015 00:04 TheAnarchy wrote:
Parting didnt make the top 15 due to the lack of results. His four premier where tier 2 or 3 events (only in homestory there were more than 3 koreans). In the blizzcon cup wich he came second he played only one korean and he lost (the final against creator).
So his only results that counts are 2 gsl finals and his homestory cupcup the rest is pretty bad. I can barely understand what you are trying to mention but PartinG never lost to Creator in a finals and definitely not in some Blizzcon cup. PartinG actually made 3 Code S finals since GSL sees the 2014 WT as a legit GSL. Yeah i made some mistakes but the point is the same. By the way that second place in Gsl Global Championship 2014 is meaningless. He defeated hack, squirtle, DRG, fantasy, revival, mma and san (and he lost twice to zest). I will say none of them was top 20 at that time (maybe mma). So his best results are two GSL second plase (Gsl blizzard cup and gsl tournament, non counting gsl championship wich is meaningless) and homestory cup (you can add gsl semis and iem tapei semis). The rest of the premiers are 3 tier tournaments.
It's rated higher than every foreign tournament if you read the OP, he got there through a qualifier and took Zest who was on the hottest PvP streak ever to 7 games.
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Mexico2170 Posts
MVP life, taeja are definitely going to be in the top 5, jugding by the picture alone, which is understandable.
I bet stephano will also be in the top 5, the guy was simply incredible. Koreans were fans of stephano, everyone feared him, he has head and shoulders above the rest of the foreigners, he was simply too good.
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Depends on how you want to define "greatest". If it's based purely on influence he had on the game then yes absolutely stephano is top 5. If you go judge purely on playing capability, who can beat who, etc, then no I don't think so. Even at his absolute top form stephano could have never taken a GSL, for instance.
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Great Article (s) and I really appreciate the work you guys have put in. Not only
have you (and others) written endless articles about those guys - interviews, predictions,
summaries and so on, but you still keep it interesting and worth to read! I especially appreciate
the link to VODs of "best-ofs" and the motivation when compared to the guy "next in line" in the rankings.
I too prefer long-timers over one-hit-wonders (which you seem to favor) but I understand it's a hard thing to compare -
say Zest and Nestea. Zest would destroy Nestea, and is "straight up" a way better player, but I like to take history, time at the top, build devlopment and everything else in account.
My prediction for the top 5 is Mvp and Life top 2 (hands down) 3-5 MC, Parting (no particular order). I would maybe consider Taeja top 15, or even top 10 but definitely not top 5 so I'll see if we'll disagree on that. Furthermore the other thing I disagree with is Maru, I'd put him higher up. But I understand your reasoning - in cold results/feats he hasn't won enough yet to prove himself. This is the same reason I think you'd put MVP first and Life second. Probably by the end of this year Life will be the undisputeable #1 of Sc2, and hopefully Maru second, but today it's a very close run btwn life and Mvp - even though Life started his rise by beating Mvp (and of course others on the way to the finals + the second place in TSL )
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PS. I would like to see (if you dare) to make the same list for foreigners top 15. Don't want to start a flame war but I'd say (ish) that it'd go (1,2,3...) Naniwa, Stephano, Snute, Thorzain, Bunny, Nestea, Vortix, Kas ........
edit: nerchio not nestea. brain fart
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On April 19 2015 02:16 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2015 02:14 Darkhorse wrote:On April 19 2015 02:11 stuchiu wrote:
15th place was the second hardest choice on the list. #15-#18 had the difference of a hair between their overall achievements. Leenock/sOs/Parting/Bomber? yea, 19th was real close too.
How are we still discussing if PartinG is top 5 when stuchiu has already said that PartinG and Bomber were 17-18 and Soulkey 19?
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On April 20 2015 03:27 showBanquo wrote:
PS. I would like to see (if you dare) to make the same list for foreigners top 15. Don't want to start a flame war but I'd say (ish) that it'd go (1,2,3...) Naniwa, Stephano, Snute, Thorzain, Bunny, Nestea, Vortix, Kas ........
Yeah nestea is my favourite foreigner too
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On April 20 2015 02:21 Kevn23 wrote:
To me the BEST 3 are MvP, Life, TaeJa.
These are the three players that you never count out in any tournament they enter, and had a real good chance of beating anyone they face, throughout WoL and HoTS.
I count Taeja out every time he plays in a Korean LAN :p
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On April 19 2015 11:32 oufanforever wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2015 10:44 Jermius wrote:
To make Bomber's exclusion even more confusing, he essentially has an even record (24-25) against the top 5 (assuming Taeja, MC, Polt, Life, couldn't find match stats for MVP). Taeja also has like a 65% win rate against the top 15 for people trying to discredit a player's success for playing foreign tournaments. you need to look at offline results only, online qualifier and tournament results are not included when ranking the players I believe.
Almost all of the games are from offline premier tournaments for Bomber. With Taeja I think the results wouldn't really change that much, in fact his win rate might even be higher in offline tournaments.
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On April 20 2015 03:27 showBanquo wrote:
PS. I would like to see (if you dare) to make the same list for foreigners top 15. Don't want to start a flame war but I'd say (ish) that it'd go (1,2,3...) Naniwa, Stephano, Snute, Thorzain, Bunny, Nestea, Vortix, Kas ........
Nestea is a foreigner now? I'm guessing you meant Nerchio?
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Yeah brainfart - I meant Nerchio ^^
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On April 19 2015 23:37 ejozl wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2015 18:25 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On April 19 2015 18:16 fancyClown wrote:
I realized that the GSLs of 2011 and 2012 should get lower weight since there were more GSLs per year.
2011: 7 GSLs per year (multiply with 0.429)
2012: 5 GSLs per year (multiply with 0.6)
the rest had 3 GSLs per year (including 1 OSL)
Here are the adjusted Top15 based on the number of times the players made it to GSL Code S Ro8:
PartinG 6.2
Innovation 6
Soulkey 6
Rain 5
MC 4.5
NesTea 4.3
Symbol 4.2
Maru 4
soO 4
HongUn 3.9 <-----
MarineKing 3.6
Taeja 3.2
Life 3
Zest 3
Mvp 2.9 Truly one of the greatest Hey! He basically invented double forge vs Terran. I quite liked HongUn, remember when he would go Carriers, just to please his fans?  Show nested quote +Also, the whole preparation tournaments > weekend tournaments is weird. Both are valuable and should be treated as such. BUT, if we're trying to find players who are straight out more talented, why wouldn't a weekend tournament be the best way to determine a player's raw skill? This is probably also why Nestea is so high on the list. He's a preparation monster, but anytime he would travel to events out of Korea he would just suck. If you cannot play both styles well, you don't deserve to be one of the greatest players of all time. If a player like Rain that have no clue how to play a bo7, you should not be one of the greatest players of all time.
nestea finished third at IPL4 and both Iron Squids.
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On April 20 2015 02:43 Fuell wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2015 02:30 TheAnarchy wrote:On April 20 2015 01:24 Fuell wrote:On April 20 2015 00:04 TheAnarchy wrote:
Parting didnt make the top 15 due to the lack of results. His four premier where tier 2 or 3 events (only in homestory there were more than 3 koreans). In the blizzcon cup wich he came second he played only one korean and he lost (the final against creator).
So his only results that counts are 2 gsl finals and his homestory cupcup the rest is pretty bad. I can barely understand what you are trying to mention but PartinG never lost to Creator in a finals and definitely not in some Blizzcon cup. PartinG actually made 3 Code S finals since GSL sees the 2014 WT as a legit GSL. Yeah i made some mistakes but the point is the same. By the way that second place in Gsl Global Championship 2014 is meaningless. He defeated hack, squirtle, DRG, fantasy, revival, mma and san (and he lost twice to zest). I will say none of them was top 20 at that time (maybe mma). So his best results are two GSL second plase (Gsl blizzard cup and gsl tournament, non counting gsl championship wich is meaningless) and homestory cup (you can add gsl semis and iem tapei semis). The rest of the premiers are 3 tier tournaments. It's rated higher than every foreign tournament if you read the OP, he got there through a qualifier and took Zest who was on the hottest PvP streak ever to 7 games.
Thats what the OP says but if you read the player reviews you will see that IPL, IEM, MLG, etc. are all rated as tier 1 tournaments because of the difficulty of the draws. What im saying is that the criterias in the OP arent the one that matters, the final criteria was the difficulty of the path in each tournament.
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EPT
