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On April 19 2015 18:16 fancyClown wrote:
I realized that the GSLs of 2011 and 2012 should get lower weight since there were more GSLs per year.
2011: 7 GSLs per year (multiply with 0.429)
2012: 5 GSLs per year (multiply with 0.6)
the rest had 3 GSLs per year (including 1 OSL)
Here are the adjusted Top15 based on the number of times the players made it to GSL Code S Ro8:
PartinG 6.2
Innovation 6
Soulkey 6
Rain 5
MC 4.5
NesTea 4.3
Symbol 4.2
Maru 4
soO 4
HongUn 3.9 <-----
MarineKing 3.6
Taeja 3.2
Life 3
Zest 3
Mvp 2.9
Truly one of the greatest
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On April 19 2015 18:16 fancyClown wrote:
I realized that the GSLs of 2011 and 2012 should get lower weight since there were more GSLs per year.
2011: 7 GSLs per year (multiply with 0.429)
2012: 5 GSLs per year (multiply with 0.6)
the rest had 3 GSLs per year (including 1 OSL)
Here are the adjusted Top15 based on the number of times the players made it to GSL Code S Ro8:
PartinG 6.2
Innovation 6
Soulkey 6
Rain 5
MC 4.5
NesTea 4.3
Symbol 4.2
Maru 4
soO 4
HongUn 3.9
MarineKing 3.6
Taeja 3.2
Life 3
Zest 3
Mvp 2.9
shouldnt Maru be at 5 ? OSL Win, GSL Code S S3 Ro4, GSL Code S 2014 S1 Ro8, GSL Code S 2014 S2 Ro4 , NSSL Win
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On April 19 2015 18:25 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2015 18:16 fancyClown wrote:
I realized that the GSLs of 2011 and 2012 should get lower weight since there were more GSLs per year.
2011: 7 GSLs per year (multiply with 0.429)
2012: 5 GSLs per year (multiply with 0.6)
the rest had 3 GSLs per year (including 1 OSL)
Here are the adjusted Top15 based on the number of times the players made it to GSL Code S Ro8:
PartinG 6.2
Innovation 6
Soulkey 6
Rain 5
MC 4.5
NesTea 4.3
Symbol 4.2
Maru 4
soO 4
HongUn 3.9 <-----
MarineKing 3.6
Taeja 3.2
Life 3
Zest 3
Mvp 2.9 Truly one of the greatest
void rays, baby!
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On April 19 2015 18:26 Hadronsbecrazy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2015 18:16 fancyClown wrote:
I realized that the GSLs of 2011 and 2012 should get lower weight since there were more GSLs per year.
2011: 7 GSLs per year (multiply with 0.429)
2012: 5 GSLs per year (multiply with 0.6)
the rest had 3 GSLs per year (including 1 OSL)
Here are the adjusted Top15 based on the number of times the players made it to GSL Code S Ro8:
PartinG 6.2
Innovation 6
Soulkey 6
Rain 5
MC 4.5
NesTea 4.3
Symbol 4.2
Maru 4
soO 4
HongUn 3.9
MarineKing 3.6
Taeja 3.2
Life 3
Zest 3
Mvp 2.9 shouldnt Maru be at 5 ? OSL Win, GSL Code S S3 Ro4, GSL Code S 2014 S1 Ro8, GSL Code S 2014 S2 Ro4 , NSSL Win
I would say no because the OSL was the replacement for GSL in that season while NSSL is independent this year. At least I think that's how he arrived at 4.
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I'm pretty surprised to see Rain > Parting, and quite happy to (I hope) see Polt > MMA ^.^
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On April 19 2015 18:26 Hadronsbecrazy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2015 18:16 fancyClown wrote:
I realized that the GSLs of 2011 and 2012 should get lower weight since there were more GSLs per year.
2011: 7 GSLs per year (multiply with 0.429)
2012: 5 GSLs per year (multiply with 0.6)
the rest had 3 GSLs per year (including 1 OSL)
Here are the adjusted Top15 based on the number of times the players made it to GSL Code S Ro8:
PartinG 6.2
Innovation 6
Soulkey 6
Rain 5
MC 4.5
NesTea 4.3
Symbol 4.2
Maru 4
soO 4
HongUn 3.9
MarineKing 3.6
Taeja 3.2
Life 3
Zest 3
Mvp 2.9 shouldnt Maru be at 5 ? OSL Win, GSL Code S S3 Ro4, GSL Code S 2014 S1 Ro8, GSL Code S 2014 S2 Ro4 , NSSL Win
I didn't count SSL.
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Poland3772 Posts
On April 19 2015 16:09 Yorkie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2015 10:44 Jermius wrote:
To make Bomber's exclusion even more confusing, he essentially has an even record (24-25) against the top 5 (assuming Taeja, MC, Polt, Life, couldn't find match stats for MVP). Taeja also has like a 65% win rate against the top 15 for people trying to discredit a player's success for playing foreign tournaments. Statistical analysis hype! great comment 
That just means that when Bomber was strong, he was on par with the best, and when he sucked they won titles and he didn't even have opportunity to play against them.
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Poland3772 Posts
On April 19 2015 12:13 braller wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2015 11:25 nimdil wrote:On April 19 2015 07:00 Soularion wrote:
It's funny to think how much current success influences opinion. The same is for Brood War - NaDa and Flash has the same amount of Golds (unless you count Flash's GOM which seems unfair); yet Flash is GOAT and NaDa has more silvers and was relevant for many many years. In fact the distance between his first and last gold is greater than is the case of July. Cmon son. All three of Nada's MSLs and one of his OSLs came in 2002-03. The competition back then wasn't even close to as good as it was when Flash was destroying everyone. No player ever reached Flash's peak and he won as many titles as anyone else, so he's the best.
By that logic BoxeR's accomplishments wheren't that impressive - 2 OSL and 1 KPGA? Come on, that's not on par even with July, especially given how some of the maps were terran favored.
The argument against NaDa is hard to swallow. He was literally on top of the world winning 3 titles in a row and an OSL shortly after that. He overcome personal tragedy and returned to the top to win golden mouse but also his longevity was unparalleled. The last starleague he qualified for was at the time when Jaedong already had Golden Mouse and the one just before Flash's rampage.
It's not about absolute skill level, it's about your relation with your peers - that's defining quality of a GOAT.
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
I agree with almost every placement so far on the list. Maybe Maru above Rain but not sure about that. Also I really wanna read the reasoning for the players above MMA because IMHO he is top 3 but that might just be bias.
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This is TL taking a shot at Acer.. MMA is top 3 without a doubt!
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Romania65 Posts
So NesTea, who won 3 GSLs in a period of time where no one knew how to play StarCraft, when, like in any sport in the world, the game isn't that figured out, the top tier players are only a handful, gets a spot in this ridiculous "TOP 15" and a player like sOs who was the reigning Blizzcon World Champion and IEM World Champion gets left out to the likes of Leenock?
This article is rubbish.
Oh by the way, where did NesTea disappear? He didn't disappear from the scene, only from the TOP scene. He failingly tried to qualify for tournaments, but failed. Every. Single. Time.
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Canada2764 Posts
On April 19 2015 17:20 sfbaydave wrote:
Honestly, this article lost credibility to me with Nestea this low.
He was the most dominant zerg and player for a solid 1 year stretch.
3 GSL titles, an undefeated GSL season, and had the 'Nestea' award obviously named after him.
Sure he fell off the map quickly, but so did MVP.
Its a shame Nestea doesnt get the respect he deserves.
He was one of the top 3 greatest Starcraft 2 players of all time.
Fun fact : NesTea took one year to not be indisputable best of his race. About one and a half to become mostly irrelevant with one pretty good run after.
Mvp took about a year and a half to not be indisputable one of the best terrans - only really fading away with GSL Season 5 2012. Before that you could say he was either #1 terran or really, really close. Maybe not for a couple stretches. But, it took him another year to become fully irrelevant, with 1 amazing run (WCS Season 1 2013) and 1 relevant run (RBBG qualifier) after.
NesTea has absolutely no success in HotS, and his success in 2012+ wasn't fantastic.
Mvp proved that, even when facing the harshest odds any pro gamer has probably ever faced, he could stay relevant. Even in 2012, when everyone doubted him, he could beat every amazing toss back to back to win Code S. Even in 2013, when he was fighting physical injuries and having to claw himself to victory, he could come one game away from beating the 'best terran by far in the world'. Even in 2014, when most had forgotten about him, he could come back to narrowly lose to DRG and defeat the likes of LosirA and Snute.
There's no doubt that Mvp is one of the big GOATs, and he will forever be. He's NesTea except with really, really impressive runs in 2012+ instead of having to rely on pretty impressive 2012 and nothing after.
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Polt won't be on that list. Stephano will.
Polt just won a bunch of Koreign tourneys. Stephano won premiere events where it was already difficult for a foreigner to win them. Polt's contribution to terran race is zero. Stephano revolutionized PvZ in a way we've never seen before or after.
So, the top 5:
5.- Stephano.
4.- Taeja.
3.- MC
2.- Life
1.- Mvp
(I'd like to see Life 1st but we all know stuchiu is a hardcore Mvp fan, so no Life 1st  )
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On April 19 2015 20:55 Apoteosis wrote:Polt won't be on that list. Stephano will. Polt just won a bunch of Koreign tourneys. Stephano won premiere events where it was already difficult for a foreigner to win them. Polt's contribution to terran race is zero. Stephano revolutionized PvZ in a way we've never seen before or after. So, the top 5: 5.- Stephano. 4.- Taeja. 3.- MC 2.- Life 1.- Mvp (I'd like to see Life 1st but we all know stuchiu is a hardcore Mvp fan, so no Life 1st )
lol
Polt is one of the most consistent players ever. He's got one GSL trophy, he's won multiple foreign tournaments, he was one of not even a handful of Terrans relevant and capable of winning tournaments during the blink era last year, despite being being nearly 10 years older than for example Maru who was one of the other few. He's won a premier tournament every year since 2011, an unmatched feat. And he's one of the most intelligent players out there. Polt not being on this list would be some top notch bogus.
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So either Stephano makes in into top 5 or the (arguably) best foreigner to date won´t be on that list at all ?
Not sure which one I`d be more surprised at tbh.
Shouldn't he have been somewhere around 9,10,11 ?
Same goes for Parting, maye to a slightly lesser extent, IMO.
He absolutely can't be top5 with players like Taeja, MVP or Life, but excluding him from the list also feels wrong.
He would've been a solid 12 - 15 in my book.
Either way very intrigued for the final 5.
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5 Naniwa
4 Life
3 Taeja
2 Stephano
1 Mvp
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On April 19 2015 20:55 Apoteosis wrote:Polt won't be on that list. Stephano will. Polt just won a bunch of Koreign tourneys. Stephano won premiere events where it was already difficult for a foreigner to win them. Polt's contribution to terran race is zero. Stephano revolutionized PvZ in a way we've never seen before or after. So, the top 5: 5.- Stephano. 4.- Taeja. 3.- MC 2.- Life 1.- Mvp (I'd like to see Life 1st but we all know stuchiu is a hardcore Mvp fan, so no Life 1st )
"Another thing to keep in mind is the tiering of tournaments. A basic guideline is Blizzcons(Only 2013+) > GSL > OSL/SSL/Kespa Cup/WCS (2012 KR)/WCG KR/Blizzcon 2011 > International Tournaments."
you can't have a foreigner in the top 15
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
i don't like polt myself but i'm surprised how many people don't like him
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On April 19 2015 21:26 lichter wrote:
i don't like polt myself but i'm surprised how many people don't like him
you forget how many people exist who will put literally every kespa player over everyone not on a kespa team.
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On April 19 2015 21:35 negativedge wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2015 21:26 lichter wrote:
i don't like polt myself but i'm surprised how many people don't like him you forget how many people exist who will put literally every kespa player over everyone not on a kespa team.
It's not about Kespa, it's about preparation style tournaments > weekend tournaments
Add: korean ones > foreign ones
A real GOAT has to do well in both, preferably also in the korean edition.
Polt won that one super tournament in 2011, his results after that in korea were just ok and decent.
Sure he also won 3 wcs seasons, but let's be real, none of these tournaments is even remotely comparable with a gsl win or even semi final tbh.
I don't wanna say that Polt doesn't deserve to be on a top 15 list, he probably does.
But top 5?
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EPT
