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On September 07 2014 00:59 brickrd wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2014 00:49 bo1b wrote:On September 06 2014 21:03 Zealously wrote:On September 06 2014 20:47 bo1b wrote:
Fuck no, he's not good enough yet. neo does have a valid point. Combining his August performances with a quarterfinal appearance gives him a better case than most players that ended up just outside the Top 10. We'll see what happens in the Ro8, but I could definitely see it if he doesn't crash completely. Eh, theres got to be something more to a top 10 player in the world then good results. The games last night weren't indicative of top 10 performance imo can i use this one on ladder? "there's more to being a good player than results" as i gg out while being 7gated
hehe yeah i agree. Results are everything when speaking about the best players.
With that i mean overall resutls, not if you win one tournament and have medicore results the rest of the time.
It doesn't simply matter how you win the games, as long as you do it consistently you are a good player.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On September 07 2014 01:07 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2014 00:59 brickrd wrote:On September 07 2014 00:49 bo1b wrote:On September 06 2014 21:03 Zealously wrote:On September 06 2014 20:47 bo1b wrote:
Fuck no, he's not good enough yet. neo does have a valid point. Combining his August performances with a quarterfinal appearance gives him a better case than most players that ended up just outside the Top 10. We'll see what happens in the Ro8, but I could definitely see it if he doesn't crash completely. Eh, theres got to be something more to a top 10 player in the world then good results. The games last night weren't indicative of top 10 performance imo can i use this one on ladder? "there's more to being a good player than results" as i gg out while being 7gated hehe yeah i agree. Results are everything when speaking about the best players. With that i mean overall resutls, not if you win one tournament and have medicore results the rest of the time. It doesn't simply matter how you win the games, as long as you do it consistently you are a good player.
I don't think that's true either. Obviously you deserve a lot of credit if you win a lot, but it's hardly unheard of to say that one player (Innovation after his 3-4 GSL finals loss) is better than the player (Soulkey) that beat him. That doesn't make sense if we only take results into account.
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On September 07 2014 00:59 brickrd wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2014 00:49 bo1b wrote:On September 06 2014 21:03 Zealously wrote:On September 06 2014 20:47 bo1b wrote:
Fuck no, he's not good enough yet. neo does have a valid point. Combining his August performances with a quarterfinal appearance gives him a better case than most players that ended up just outside the Top 10. We'll see what happens in the Ro8, but I could definitely see it if he doesn't crash completely. Eh, theres got to be something more to a top 10 player in the world then good results. The games last night weren't indicative of top 10 performance imo can i use this one on ladder? "there's more to being a good player than results" as i gg out while being 7gated
No you can't, I'm the only person who has ever thought of that so I own it, and if you use it I'll sue.
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On September 07 2014 01:10 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2014 01:07 The_Red_Viper wrote:On September 07 2014 00:59 brickrd wrote:On September 07 2014 00:49 bo1b wrote:On September 06 2014 21:03 Zealously wrote:On September 06 2014 20:47 bo1b wrote:
Fuck no, he's not good enough yet. neo does have a valid point. Combining his August performances with a quarterfinal appearance gives him a better case than most players that ended up just outside the Top 10. We'll see what happens in the Ro8, but I could definitely see it if he doesn't crash completely. Eh, theres got to be something more to a top 10 player in the world then good results. The games last night weren't indicative of top 10 performance imo can i use this one on ladder? "there's more to being a good player than results" as i gg out while being 7gated hehe yeah i agree. Results are everything when speaking about the best players. With that i mean overall resutls, not if you win one tournament and have medicore results the rest of the time. It doesn't simply matter how you win the games, as long as you do it consistently you are a good player. I don't think that's true either. Obviously you deserve a lot of credit if you win a lot, but it's hardly unheard of to say that one player (Innovation after his 3-4 GSL finals loss) is better than the player (Soulkey) that beat him. That doesn't make sense if we only take results into account.
Yeah sure, that's why i said overall results. One tournament doesn't make or break a player in my opinion.
I just don't believe in this idea to watch the games and define the skill of the player that way. If he loses a lot he isn't on the lvl, simple as that.
Theoretical construct: If someone would win 70% of his games with canon rushes, he would still be a very good player imo.
(obviously he needs to do that on the highest lvl of competition).
The game defines the rules, it doesn't matter what style the player uses to win with.
We maybe could say he doesn't use a style which requires a lot of apm, but that isn't everything in the game. (and we probably would be right in saying that the style is boring to watch, but that is something different entirely)
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On September 07 2014 01:21 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2014 01:10 Zealously wrote:On September 07 2014 01:07 The_Red_Viper wrote:On September 07 2014 00:59 brickrd wrote:On September 07 2014 00:49 bo1b wrote:On September 06 2014 21:03 Zealously wrote:On September 06 2014 20:47 bo1b wrote:
Fuck no, he's not good enough yet. neo does have a valid point. Combining his August performances with a quarterfinal appearance gives him a better case than most players that ended up just outside the Top 10. We'll see what happens in the Ro8, but I could definitely see it if he doesn't crash completely. Eh, theres got to be something more to a top 10 player in the world then good results. The games last night weren't indicative of top 10 performance imo can i use this one on ladder? "there's more to being a good player than results" as i gg out while being 7gated hehe yeah i agree. Results are everything when speaking about the best players. With that i mean overall resutls, not if you win one tournament and have medicore results the rest of the time. It doesn't simply matter how you win the games, as long as you do it consistently you are a good player. I don't think that's true either. Obviously you deserve a lot of credit if you win a lot, but it's hardly unheard of to say that one player (Innovation after his 3-4 GSL finals loss) is better than the player (Soulkey) that beat him. That doesn't make sense if we only take results into account. Yeah sure, that's why i said overall results. One tournament doesn't make or break a player in my opinion. I just don't believe in this idea to watch the games and define the skill of the player that way. If he loses a lot with it he isn't on the lvl, simple as that. Theoretical construct: If someone would win 70% of his games with canon rushes, he would still be a very good play imo. (obviously he needs to do that on the highest lvl of competition). The game defines the rules, it doesn't matter what style the player uses to win with. We maybe could say he doesn't use a style which requires a lot of apm, but that isn't everything in the game. (and we probably would be right in saying that the style is boring to watch, but that is something different entirely)
I agree, But I still can't stand all the cheesy play. I feel robbed of entertainment as a fan.
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United States97276 Posts
now that's who's the best european is over time to complain about Darkhorse's foreigner PR right?
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On September 08 2014 05:56 Shellshock wrote:
now that's who's the best european is over time to complain about Darkhorse's foreigner PR right?
Darkhorse doesn't know anything
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your Country52797 Posts
On September 08 2014 06:03 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2014 05:56 Shellshock wrote:
now that's who's the best european is over time to complain about Darkhorse's foreigner PR right? Darkhorse doesn't know anything
Ouch, that's harsh.
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Lorning
Belgica34432 Posts
On September 08 2014 06:03 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2014 05:56 Shellshock wrote:
now that's who's the best european is over time to complain about Darkhorse's foreigner PR right? Darkhorse doesn't know anything
He knows a lot about posting passionstone LR theads and not updating them
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your Country52797 Posts
On September 08 2014 06:06 Lorning wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2014 06:03 Zealously wrote:On September 08 2014 05:56 Shellshock wrote:
now that's who's the best european is over time to complain about Darkhorse's foreigner PR right? Darkhorse doesn't know anything He knows a lot about posting passionstone LR theads and not updating them
Lol, where/when did this happen?
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Lorning
Belgica34432 Posts
On September 08 2014 06:07 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2014 06:06 Lorning wrote:On September 08 2014 06:03 Zealously wrote:On September 08 2014 05:56 Shellshock wrote:
now that's who's the best european is over time to complain about Darkhorse's foreigner PR right? Darkhorse doesn't know anything He knows a lot about posting passionstone LR theads and not updating them Lol, where/when did this happen?
On the LiquidPassion website
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On September 07 2014 01:21 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2014 01:10 Zealously wrote:On September 07 2014 01:07 The_Red_Viper wrote:On September 07 2014 00:59 brickrd wrote:On September 07 2014 00:49 bo1b wrote:On September 06 2014 21:03 Zealously wrote:On September 06 2014 20:47 bo1b wrote: !@#$%^&* no, he's not good enough yet. neo does have a valid point. Combining his August performances with a quarterfinal appearance gives him a better case than most players that ended up just outside the Top 10. We'll see what happens in the Ro8, but I could definitely see it if he doesn't crash completely. Eh, theres got to be something more to a top 10 player in the world then good results. The games last night weren't indicative of top 10 performance imo can i use this one on ladder? "there's more to being a good player than results" as i gg out while being 7gated hehe yeah i agree. Results are everything when speaking about the best players. With that i mean overall resutls, not if you win one tournament and have medicore results the rest of the time. It doesn't simply matter how you win the games, as long as you do it consistently you are a good player. I don't think that's true either. Obviously you deserve a lot of credit if you win a lot, but it's hardly unheard of to say that one player (Innovation after his 3-4 GSL finals loss) is better than the player (Soulkey) that beat him. That doesn't make sense if we only take results into account. Yeah sure, that's why i said overall results. One tournament doesn't make or break a player in my opinion. I just don't believe in this idea to watch the games and define the skill of the player that way. If he loses a lot he isn't on the lvl, simple as that. Theoretical construct: If someone would win 70% of his games with canon rushes, he would still be a very good player imo. (obviously he needs to do that on the highest lvl of competition). The game defines the rules, it doesn't matter what style the player uses to win with. We maybe could say he doesn't use a style which requires a lot of apm, but that isn't everything in the game. (and we probably would be right in saying that the style is boring to watch, but that is something different entirely)
It's definitely extremely dangeous to rely too much on subjective game-analysis to determine who is the best player. Your so easily getting biased depending on whether the player plays an entertaining playstyle or not, or whether your more exposed to that player.
I think, however subjective game analysis can be helpful in some situations, but it's important that you start up with the quantiative analysis first. Look at all the data, all the results and get a sense of an overal ranking based on ojbective numbers. I would probably divide win/rates based on enemy-skill. E.g. win/rate against top15 players, against rank 16-40 players and 40+. If a player has a below 50% win/rates vs top-15 player, but around 50% win/rates vs rank 16-40, he should probably be placed in the latter category.
Then in order to determine more specific ranks (e.g. whther he should be placed 5th or 7th), you can look a bit closer at the game he has played. For instance, it can be kinda deceiving to just look at Polt's 3-0 win over Taeja. Did he win becasue he genuinly was a better player or was it more of a "volatile" win? If the latter is the case, then that result should have less of an impact on the overall ranking.
Thus use subjective analysis in order to determine whether 1 or 2 wins (or losses) can be attributed to short-term variance or whether they actually provide a strong indication of the players skills.
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On September 06 2014 20:47 bo1b wrote:
Fuck no, he's not good enough yet.
All I have seen you post is shit about DRG. Did he do something to you?
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On September 08 2014 05:56 Shellshock wrote:
now that's who's the best european is over time to complain about Darkhorse's foreigner PR right?
DeMusliM needs to be at least 3rd on the list with his placement in WTB combined with all the POTENTIAL
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On September 08 2014 10:29 Aeceus wrote:All I have seen you post is shit about DRG. Did he do something to you?
I'm a big fan of him, past the point where all I do is ignore his faults in game. If you think me pointing out that the last few games have been mediocre from what he needs to be in the top 10 then tbh you're blind. Tbh, I don't think I've missed a broad casted game he's played, maybe ever. That includes the replays he gave us when teamliquid had that interview with korea series going.
So no, I'm a fan, and no, I don't just post shit about him.
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This list is an interesting read but it is too subjective. According to Aligulac Maru is only the 25th best player, not the second best player in the world.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On September 09 2014 01:53 MockHamill wrote:
This list is an interesting read but it is too subjective. According to Aligulac Maru is only the 25th best player, not the second best player in the world.
And Aligulac is wrong.
Edit: to clarify, the "correct" answer is likely somwhere in between. But to say that there are 24 players in the world that are better than Maru (and that YoDa and Bunny are among them) is very silly.
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On September 09 2014 01:54 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2014 01:53 MockHamill wrote:
This list is an interesting read but it is too subjective. According to Aligulac Maru is only the 25th best player, not the second best player in the world. And Aligulac is wrong. Edit: to clarify, the "correct" answer is likely somwhere in between. But to say that there are 24 players in the world that are better than Maru (and that YoDa and Bunny are among them) is very silly.
Yeah, in particular Aligulac seems to really underrate soO as well
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Life will always be number 1 on my personal ranking!
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Am I the only one who disagrees with Rain being number 1? He's not bad, it's just I don't believe he's nearly the best player in the world right now. He just hasn't won anything major in a long time.
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EPT
