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On July 19 2014 06:25 Circumstance wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2014 06:08 Terranist wrote:On July 19 2014 05:55 TheDwf wrote:On July 19 2014 05:42 Circumstance wrote:On July 19 2014 05:24 TheDwf wrote:On July 19 2014 05:15 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote:
After being knocked out of Code A last season, Flash's career in the SC2 scene was seriously being questioned by almost everyone. This kind of dramatic exaggeration serves no purpose. Funny, that phrase would be better suited to people calling Flash a Top 5 Terran You piqued my curiosity, who would you place ahead of Flash among the Terran ranks? maru, innovation, taeja, bomber, polt, supernova, bbyong as well as Jjakji, MMA, TY, and at this point, I have to add Heart.
Heart better than Flash... I feel like I'm being trolled.
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Sad that skyhigh didnt won.. I want to see the Vods, GomTV didnt upload them yet :/
But I'm happy that Flash advanced 
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yay! gonna have a beer in the name of the KT Terrans tonight
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Hush is the unspoken true god of PvP, I've personally never saw him lose a broadcasted game.
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On July 19 2014 07:03 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2014 06:25 Circumstance wrote:On July 19 2014 06:08 Terranist wrote:On July 19 2014 05:55 TheDwf wrote:On July 19 2014 05:42 Circumstance wrote:On July 19 2014 05:24 TheDwf wrote:On July 19 2014 05:15 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote:
After being knocked out of Code A last season, Flash's career in the SC2 scene was seriously being questioned by almost everyone. This kind of dramatic exaggeration serves no purpose. Funny, that phrase would be better suited to people calling Flash a Top 5 Terran You piqued my curiosity, who would you place ahead of Flash among the Terran ranks? maru, innovation, taeja, bomber, polt, supernova, bbyong as well as Jjakji, MMA, TY, and at this point, I have to add Heart. Heart better than Flash... I feel like I'm being trolled.
I don't think these guys watch Proleague. Flash is, imo, the best mech terran (alongside with bbyong) and is doing pretty well in proleague despite balance issues. The only terran I would place ahead of Flash are Innovation, Taeja, Maru, BByong. Bomber coming right after Flash (I'm saying that despite Bomber being my favorite terran of all times <3)
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On July 19 2014 06:25 Circumstance wrote:On July 19 2014 06:08 Terranist wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2014 05:55 TheDwf wrote:On July 19 2014 05:42 Circumstance wrote:On July 19 2014 05:24 TheDwf wrote:On July 19 2014 05:15 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote:
After being knocked out of Code A last season, Flash's career in the SC2 scene was seriously being questioned by almost everyone. This kind of dramatic exaggeration serves no purpose. Funny, that phrase would be better suited to people calling Flash a Top 5 Terran You piqued my curiosity, who would you place ahead of Flash among the Terran ranks? maru, innovation, taeja, bomber, polt, supernova, bbyong as well as Jjakji, MMA, TY, and at this point, I have to add Heart.
This cannot be serious. Please tell me that you are joking. Did you watch TBs recent tourney with flash? (You know, the one with him stomping Life, beating herO 2-1, stomping Bbyong and then losing 4-2 to herO? Don't let the "online" tag fool you; they all played extremely well.)
edit: And yeah, why aren't people like Cure up there, when he's better than heart, mma and jjakji that all obviously are better than flash? Marineking, Journey, Salvation, Fantasy? Better than Heart, I would argue..
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On July 19 2014 08:17 Twine wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2014 07:03 TheDwf wrote:On July 19 2014 06:25 Circumstance wrote:On July 19 2014 06:08 Terranist wrote:On July 19 2014 05:55 TheDwf wrote:On July 19 2014 05:42 Circumstance wrote:On July 19 2014 05:24 TheDwf wrote:On July 19 2014 05:15 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote:
After being knocked out of Code A last season, Flash's career in the SC2 scene was seriously being questioned by almost everyone. This kind of dramatic exaggeration serves no purpose. Funny, that phrase would be better suited to people calling Flash a Top 5 Terran You piqued my curiosity, who would you place ahead of Flash among the Terran ranks? maru, innovation, taeja, bomber, polt, supernova, bbyong as well as Jjakji, MMA, TY, and at this point, I have to add Heart. Heart better than Flash... I feel like I'm being trolled. I don't think these guys watch Proleague. Flash is, imo, the best mech terran (alongside with bbyong) and is doing pretty well in proleague despite balance issues. The only terran I would place ahead of Flash are Innovation, Taeja, Maru, BByong. Bomber coming right after Flash (I'm saying that despite Bomber being my favorite terran of all times <3)
Proleague is exactly where people have such huge different views on Flash.
Very few watch Proleague almost exclusively, a small minority watches both Proleague and WCS Kr, and a vast majority watch sprinkle of WCS Kr and mostly WCS NA/EU.
If you watch only Proleague, it hardly looks like Flash fell off the top. If you watch both PL and WCS KR (GSL) then Flash has been disappointing but is still a top tier player. If you watch WCS NA/EU and mix in VODs of GSL and PL then you think Flash is very far below the top.
The Bottom line that people need to realize is that individual leagues aren't the main focus of top PL players like Flash and other team ACEs, especially if they are old KeSPA and even more so if they ex-BW players.
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On July 19 2014 10:26 neptunusfisk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2014 06:25 Circumstance wrote:On July 19 2014 06:08 Terranist wrote:On July 19 2014 05:55 TheDwf wrote:On July 19 2014 05:42 Circumstance wrote:On July 19 2014 05:24 TheDwf wrote:On July 19 2014 05:15 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote:
After being knocked out of Code A last season, Flash's career in the SC2 scene was seriously being questioned by almost everyone. This kind of dramatic exaggeration serves no purpose. Funny, that phrase would be better suited to people calling Flash a Top 5 Terran You piqued my curiosity, who would you place ahead of Flash among the Terran ranks? maru, innovation, taeja, bomber, polt, supernova, bbyong as well as Jjakji, MMA, TY, and at this point, I have to add Heart. This cannot be serious. Please tell me that you are joking. Did you watch TBs recent tourney with flash? (You know, the one with him stomping Life, beating herO 2-1, stomping Bbyong and then losing 4-2 to herO? Don't let the "online" tag fool you; they all played extremely well.) edit: And yeah, why aren't people like Cure up there, when he's better than heart, mma and jjakji that all obviously are better than flash? Marineking, Journey, Salvation, Fantasy? Better than Heart, I would argue..
and what accomplishments does flash have in sc2? flash is a proleague star and that is all he has done.
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On July 19 2014 06:25 Circumstance wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2014 06:08 Terranist wrote:On July 19 2014 05:55 TheDwf wrote:On July 19 2014 05:42 Circumstance wrote:On July 19 2014 05:24 TheDwf wrote:On July 19 2014 05:15 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote:
After being knocked out of Code A last season, Flash's career in the SC2 scene was seriously being questioned by almost everyone. This kind of dramatic exaggeration serves no purpose. Funny, that phrase would be better suited to people calling Flash a Top 5 Terran You piqued my curiosity, who would you place ahead of Flash among the Terran ranks? maru, innovation, taeja, bomber, polt, supernova, bbyong as well as Jjakji, MMA, TY, and at this point, I have to add Heart.
What?!? Flash is still doing really well in Prolelague, saying jjakji, mma, supernova, heart over him is nuts.
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Flash is clearly a top level Terran. And can go toe to toe with the best in the world and give them a good slap.
But for some reason, he hasn't been bringing is A game to GSL.
He's not the only to level Terran to do it. Where did TY get to last season?
If he can sort out his problem out and play GSL as well as he plays in Proleague, we can see a nice deep run from Flash.
#ibelieve
Edit: auto correct
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On July 19 2014 17:28 Terranist wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2014 10:26 neptunusfisk wrote:On July 19 2014 06:25 Circumstance wrote:On July 19 2014 06:08 Terranist wrote:On July 19 2014 05:55 TheDwf wrote:On July 19 2014 05:42 Circumstance wrote:On July 19 2014 05:24 TheDwf wrote:On July 19 2014 05:15 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote:
After being knocked out of Code A last season, Flash's career in the SC2 scene was seriously being questioned by almost everyone. This kind of dramatic exaggeration serves no purpose. Funny, that phrase would be better suited to people calling Flash a Top 5 Terran You piqued my curiosity, who would you place ahead of Flash among the Terran ranks? maru, innovation, taeja, bomber, polt, supernova, bbyong as well as Jjakji, MMA, TY, and at this point, I have to add Heart. This cannot be serious. Please tell me that you are joking. Did you watch TBs recent tourney with flash? (You know, the one with him stomping Life, beating herO 2-1, stomping Bbyong and then losing 4-2 to herO? Don't let the "online" tag fool you; they all played extremely well.) edit: And yeah, why aren't people like Cure up there, when he's better than heart, mma and jjakji that all obviously are better than flash? Marineking, Journey, Salvation, Fantasy? Better than Heart, I would argue.. and what accomplishments does flash have in sc2? flash is a proleague star and that is all he has done.
You count "doing ok in WCS EU and AM" better than reaching code S ro16 and being top 3 wins in SPL?
Some of Flashs SC2 achievements:
#1 wins SPL 2013
top 5 wins SPL 2014
Ro16 Code S x 4, perhaps once more
Ro8 OSL
Ro12 IEM
3rd place MLG
2nd place MLG
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On July 19 2014 06:06 Zealously wrote:
You mean like soO's back-to-back-to-back GSL finals? Or Mvp's 2011 streak? Or I guess "consistency" as in Taeja's 2013? Or when you say consistency, do you mean Life's streak in offline Bo5s, where he didn't lose an offline Bo5 for some 20 matches across something like 18 months? Or by "consistency", something like Innovation going 37-6 (that's 86% win rate) in ATC? By "consistency", I'm assuming you don't mean something like Jaedong reaching 6 finals in 2013? I'm also assuming that you are unaware of Maru reaching the Ro4 in 5 elite tournaments (and winning one of them) last year.
I mean, I'm not going to say that you don't know what you're talking about, but...
That's not real dominance. It's just one player being 'good' (instead of 'best') for a while. My feelings are that not the best players in terms of abilities are on top in starcraft 2. Top player ranks are changing way too much.
Sure you can see some players are really good kind of consistently, like Jaedong or Taeja as you mentioned. But to me that's not enough for how long this game has been around. There are always newcomers and the fast pace makes the game so fragile.
I would be pissed myself if I was training 10 hours a day and then in the tourney some random decides to rush you with 2 barracks. You don't scout because usually chances are low that someone takes such a risk.
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On July 19 2014 19:45 lifecanwait wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2014 06:06 Zealously wrote:
You mean like soO's back-to-back-to-back GSL finals? Or Mvp's 2011 streak? Or I guess "consistency" as in Taeja's 2013? Or when you say consistency, do you mean Life's streak in offline Bo5s, where he didn't lose an offline Bo5 for some 20 matches across something like 18 months? Or by "consistency", something like Innovation going 37-6 (that's 86% win rate) in ATC? By "consistency", I'm assuming you don't mean something like Jaedong reaching 6 finals in 2013? I'm also assuming that you are unaware of Maru reaching the Ro4 in 5 elite tournaments (and winning one of them) last year.
I mean, I'm not going to say that you don't know what you're talking about, but... That's not real dominance. It's just one player being 'good' (instead of 'best') for a while. My feelings are that not the best players in terms of abilities are on top in starcraft 2. Top player ranks are changing way too much. Sure you can see some players are really good kind of consistently, like Jaedong or Taeja as you mentioned. But to me that's not enough for how long this game has been around. There are always newcomers and the fast pace makes the game so fragile. I would be pissed myself if I was training 10 hours a day and then in the tourney some random decides to rush you with 2 barracks. You don't scout because usually chances are low that someone takes such a risk.
It was the same way in BW, most of the time. Thing just being, SC2 has so many minor events, too many "premier tournaments" and thing like HSC/DH/IEM at the same time.
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On July 19 2014 19:16 neptunusfisk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2014 17:28 Terranist wrote:On July 19 2014 10:26 neptunusfisk wrote:On July 19 2014 06:25 Circumstance wrote:On July 19 2014 06:08 Terranist wrote:On July 19 2014 05:55 TheDwf wrote:On July 19 2014 05:42 Circumstance wrote:On July 19 2014 05:24 TheDwf wrote:On July 19 2014 05:15 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote:
After being knocked out of Code A last season, Flash's career in the SC2 scene was seriously being questioned by almost everyone. This kind of dramatic exaggeration serves no purpose. Funny, that phrase would be better suited to people calling Flash a Top 5 Terran You piqued my curiosity, who would you place ahead of Flash among the Terran ranks? maru, innovation, taeja, bomber, polt, supernova, bbyong as well as Jjakji, MMA, TY, and at this point, I have to add Heart. This cannot be serious. Please tell me that you are joking. Did you watch TBs recent tourney with flash? (You know, the one with him stomping Life, beating herO 2-1, stomping Bbyong and then losing 4-2 to herO? Don't let the "online" tag fool you; they all played extremely well.) edit: And yeah, why aren't people like Cure up there, when he's better than heart, mma and jjakji that all obviously are better than flash? Marineking, Journey, Salvation, Fantasy? Better than Heart, I would argue.. and what accomplishments does flash have in sc2? flash is a proleague star and that is all he has done. You count "doing ok in WCS EU and AM" better than reaching code S ro16 and being top 3 wins in SPL? Some of Flashs SC2 achievements: #1 wins SPL 2013 top 5 wins SPL 2014 Ro16 Code S x 4, perhaps once more Ro8 OSL Ro12 IEM 3rd place MLG 2nd place MLG
Just to note, Flash got invited to the Ro16 for that IEM event (New York). He won 1 best of three vs State to "achieve" that result.
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On July 20 2014 18:34 messioso wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2014 19:16 neptunusfisk wrote:On July 19 2014 17:28 Terranist wrote:On July 19 2014 10:26 neptunusfisk wrote:On July 19 2014 06:25 Circumstance wrote:On July 19 2014 06:08 Terranist wrote:On July 19 2014 05:55 TheDwf wrote:On July 19 2014 05:42 Circumstance wrote:On July 19 2014 05:24 TheDwf wrote:On July 19 2014 05:15 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote:
After being knocked out of Code A last season, Flash's career in the SC2 scene was seriously being questioned by almost everyone. This kind of dramatic exaggeration serves no purpose. Funny, that phrase would be better suited to people calling Flash a Top 5 Terran You piqued my curiosity, who would you place ahead of Flash among the Terran ranks? maru, innovation, taeja, bomber, polt, supernova, bbyong as well as Jjakji, MMA, TY, and at this point, I have to add Heart. This cannot be serious. Please tell me that you are joking. Did you watch TBs recent tourney with flash? (You know, the one with him stomping Life, beating herO 2-1, stomping Bbyong and then losing 4-2 to herO? Don't let the "online" tag fool you; they all played extremely well.) edit: And yeah, why aren't people like Cure up there, when he's better than heart, mma and jjakji that all obviously are better than flash? Marineking, Journey, Salvation, Fantasy? Better than Heart, I would argue.. and what accomplishments does flash have in sc2? flash is a proleague star and that is all he has done. You count "doing ok in WCS EU and AM" better than reaching code S ro16 and being top 3 wins in SPL? Some of Flashs SC2 achievements: #1 wins SPL 2013 top 5 wins SPL 2014 Ro16 Code S x 4, perhaps once more Ro8 OSL Ro12 IEM 3rd place MLG 2nd place MLG Just to note, Flash got invited to the Ro16 for that IEM event (New York). He won 1 best of three vs State to "achieve" that result.
to be honest flash doesn't have many achievements. bomber, polt, and supernova would have all put up great results in proleague if given the chance.
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On July 21 2014 06:58 Terranist wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2014 18:34 messioso wrote:On July 19 2014 19:16 neptunusfisk wrote:On July 19 2014 17:28 Terranist wrote:On July 19 2014 10:26 neptunusfisk wrote:On July 19 2014 06:25 Circumstance wrote:On July 19 2014 06:08 Terranist wrote:On July 19 2014 05:55 TheDwf wrote:On July 19 2014 05:42 Circumstance wrote:On July 19 2014 05:24 TheDwf wrote:On July 19 2014 05:15 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote:
After being knocked out of Code A last season, Flash's career in the SC2 scene was seriously being questioned by almost everyone. This kind of dramatic exaggeration serves no purpose. Funny, that phrase would be better suited to people calling Flash a Top 5 Terran You piqued my curiosity, who would you place ahead of Flash among the Terran ranks? maru, innovation, taeja, bomber, polt, supernova, bbyong as well as Jjakji, MMA, TY, and at this point, I have to add Heart. This cannot be serious. Please tell me that you are joking. Did you watch TBs recent tourney with flash? (You know, the one with him stomping Life, beating herO 2-1, stomping Bbyong and then losing 4-2 to herO? Don't let the "online" tag fool you; they all played extremely well.) edit: And yeah, why aren't people like Cure up there, when he's better than heart, mma and jjakji that all obviously are better than flash? Marineking, Journey, Salvation, Fantasy? Better than Heart, I would argue.. and what accomplishments does flash have in sc2? flash is a proleague star and that is all he has done. You count "doing ok in WCS EU and AM" better than reaching code S ro16 and being top 3 wins in SPL? Some of Flashs SC2 achievements: #1 wins SPL 2013 top 5 wins SPL 2014 Ro16 Code S x 4, perhaps once more Ro8 OSL Ro12 IEM 3rd place MLG 2nd place MLG Just to note, Flash got invited to the Ro16 for that IEM event (New York). He won 1 best of three vs State to "achieve" that result. to be honest flash doesn't have many achievements. bomber, polt, and supernova would have all put up great results in proleague if given the chance.
Like TaeJa? Proleague is a singular environment and format. Because of their respective styles, I would see SuperNova do well in it, but not necessarily Polt and (particularly) Bomber (too easily snipable).
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EPT
