|
http://www.esportsheaven.com/news/view/64392
In what has proven to be a turbulent time for the emerging e-sports studio news is now filtering through that the studio is set to shut down. Recent reports had revealed that the studio had failed to pay its personnel for months, prompting a statement that they hoped to settle all outstanding debts by the end of June.
However our sources have revealed to us that whether or not this is the case the studio will be ceasing operations and has fired all its production talent. This expands to personalities such as Dan "Frodan" Chou who was seen by many as the face of the studio’s output.
It was also revealed that the studio gave no prior warning that this move was around the corner. In a move, supposedly to ensure that no equipment was taken, the studio was just locked and no-one informed. Staff turned up to the studio only to find their access denied. This has been typical of the communication barriers between upper management and staff as reported by onGamers initial report, which can be read here.
They had also recently taken the decision to cancel their upcoming $25,000 Hearthstone tournament citing a "backlog of issues" that needed resolving first.
No official statement has been passed by anyone at ESGN and it isn’t clear whether or not they will still be able to meet the promise of payment they made just a few days ago. Regardless it seems that the impact of spiralling costs amid a flawed and non-profitable business model have taken their toll and in just a little over six months the business has finally come to an end.
Expect more on this story as it develops.
Surprise!
Also I thought they didn't have contracts?!
EDIT: Article with new information: http://www.ongamers.com/articles/esgn-to-continue-on-confirms-studio-closing-dedicated-to-paying-owed-payments/1100-1649/
Representatives from ESGN have confirmed to onGamers that the studio arm of the company will be shut down effective immediately, with approximately 20 employees let go in the process. Representatives say that the company will not be shutting down and will continue with its media and business departments, the former of which contained the studio staff. The company's top executives remain unaffected along with most of those in business operations.
The studio closing was initially reported by Esportsheaven's Richard Lewis earlier today.
The move is said to have been made due to the high costs of running the studio since the launch of the company. ESGN says this move is necessary for the company to continue on, and to come through on a promise it made over the weekend to pay back owed payments to employees and contracted players and broadcasters.
"Our biggest problem right now is to reduce costs," ESGN representatives told onGamers. "Even decreasing the overhead to make content manageable is very difficult. We've made this decision because it's just too much money to keep it going. We are committed to keeping our promise of paying back everyone by the end of June, and closing the studio makes it much easier to fix the current problem."
"We had no choice but to shut down."
ESGN says that the business end of the company, which launched with content partnerships with Europe's ESL, Korea's GomTV, and China's Gamefy, will continue, but that there is no immediate plan on how to operate either the business or media arm without the operation of the studio. ESGN says that they are unsure if more Fight Night tournament content will continue, and are discussing internally on the next steps moving forward for the company as a whole.
Yesterday ESGN cancelled their upcoming $25,000 Hearthstone Champions tournament.
ESL CEO Ralf Reichert is unclear about what the future holds for their partnership.
"Honest answer is we haven't put much thought into this," Reichert said. "First and foremost we hope that all outstanding debt to players and employees get resolved and then we will evaluate with ESGN what future model is there."
|
|
|
Thx again to copy paste the whole source completely so that we do not have to share traffic with the real content creators. Serious that is terrible.
To the topic, isnt it strange that the next Blizzard game released a hype for organizers and already a big one failed? Strange strange. EG curse ?
|
United Kingdom50293 Posts
How could this happen, I'm utterly shocked at this completely unexpected behaviour from ESGN. I thought they and clauf were so trustworthy and legitimate I just can't comprehend what could cause this turn of events.
|
Unbelievable that this happened and got this bad so fast. Everyone was calling it fishy and odd when ESGN first popped up, and this was expected, but...so fast? Wow. So sorry for all the employees.
|
Oh yeah.."people will be paid" :D Does anyone actually believe this at this point?
|
On June 04 2014 04:19 Fusilero wrote:
How could this happen, I'm utterly shocked at this completely unexpected behaviour from ESGN. I thought they and clauf were so trustworthy and legitimate I just can't comprehend what could cause this turn of events.
I laughed so hard when I read your comment. I'm just curious if this was meant to be sarcasm.
|
I am totally shocked and appalled by this utterly unforeseen turn of events. I am also confident that everyone involved will be compensated fully within a reasonable period of time.
I mean how much longer are we going to be bedazzled by the same hucksters pulling the same old stunt?
|
I thoroughly enjoyed their Hearthstone Fight Nights and thought that was the best hearthstone production by far, really sad to see that go away. Hope other companies can pick up the slack.
|
|
|
On June 04 2014 04:24 Squat wrote:
I am totally shocked and appalled by this utterly unforeseen turn of events. I am also confident that everyone involved will be compensated fully within a reasonable period of time.
I mean how much longer are we going to be bedazzled by the same hucksters pulling the same old stunt?
Any bets on how long GEM and Abuzu 2.0 will last?
|
On June 04 2014 04:23 chaos021 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2014 04:19 Fusilero wrote:
How could this happen, I'm utterly shocked at this completely unexpected behaviour from ESGN. I thought they and clauf were so trustworthy and legitimate I just can't comprehend what could cause this turn of events. I laughed so hard when I read your comment. I'm just curious if this was meant to be sarcasm.
It's sarcasm
|
On June 04 2014 04:25 Niko_Thien wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2014 04:24 Squat wrote:
I am totally shocked and appalled by this utterly unforeseen turn of events. I am also confident that everyone involved will be compensated fully within a reasonable period of time.
I mean how much longer are we going to be bedazzled by the same hucksters pulling the same old stunt? Any bets on how long GEM and Abuzu 2.0 will last?
Dead before September/October I think.
|
East Gorteau22261 Posts
I am extremely surprised and I can tell you that I did not see this coming in any way.
|
Damn that ship went down faster than titanic...
They had such an awesome studio and I liked their broadcasts, love Frodan's work. Sigh. They set their goals way too high it seems, but shutting down this soon means there must have been some really dillusional financial planning. Sad to see them go, sad for the staff and the players who need their bills paid.
|
On June 04 2014 04:19 tadL wrote:
Thx again to copy paste the whole source completely so that we do not have to share traffic with the real content creators. Serious that is terrible.
To the topic, isnt it strange that the next Blizzard game released a hype for organizers and already a big one failed? Strange strange. EG curse ?
honestly... what? maybe you shouldn't be making content if what you're writing is completely incomprehensible... and really? big one? maybe you should get your facts checked before making assumptions...
|
East Gorteau22261 Posts
On June 04 2014 04:28 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2014 04:25 Niko_Thien wrote:On June 04 2014 04:24 Squat wrote:
I am totally shocked and appalled by this utterly unforeseen turn of events. I am also confident that everyone involved will be compensated fully within a reasonable period of time.
I mean how much longer are we going to be bedazzled by the same hucksters pulling the same old stunt? Any bets on how long GEM and Abuzu 2.0 will last? Dead before September/October I think.
To quote Lovecraft:
That is not dead which can eternal lie...
|
I take it all the people who moved to Germany are gonna have to pay their own flights back =/...
|
On June 04 2014 04:31 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2014 04:28 Squat wrote:On June 04 2014 04:25 Niko_Thien wrote:On June 04 2014 04:24 Squat wrote:
I am totally shocked and appalled by this utterly unforeseen turn of events. I am also confident that everyone involved will be compensated fully within a reasonable period of time.
I mean how much longer are we going to be bedazzled by the same hucksters pulling the same old stunt? Any bets on how long GEM and Abuzu 2.0 will last? Dead before September/October I think. To quote Lovecraft: That is not dead which can eternal lie...
With stranger eons death may die. Would not surprised me unduly if it turns out Cthulu ran the whole show.
|
That was unexpected /sarcasm.
|
Northern Ireland22208 Posts
On June 04 2014 04:35 ssxsilver wrote:
I take it all the people who moved to Germany are gonna have to pay their own flights back =/...
May be the least of their worries - will they even have anything to go back to
|
|
|
I won`t be surprised if they find a form to invoke bankrupt so they don`t have to pay a cent.
|
The only thing I'm surprised about is how quickly this all went to shit.
|
East Gorteau22261 Posts
On June 04 2014 04:47 Pegas wrote:
I won`t be surprised if they find a form to invoke bankrupt so they don`t have to pay a cent.
I would be surprised if they don't
|
|
|
I don't understand how guys like Frodan and Torte de Lini didn't see this coming though.
This is pretty terrible - I feel sorry for those guys.
|
Haha, at least while closing the doors they deliver some quality entertainment. So ridiculous :D.
|
On June 04 2014 04:47 Pegas wrote:
I won`t be surprised if they find a form to invoke bankrupt so they don`t have to pay a cent.
Well they are bankrupt so you can liquidate the remaining assets and thats it.
|
United States33175 Posts
On June 04 2014 04:53 c0ldfusion wrote:
I don't understand how guys like Frodan and Torte de Lini didn't see this coming though.
well, think of it like this: if they hadn't worked for ESGN, would they be better off now?
|
Unfortunate, but not surprised.
|
On June 04 2014 04:54 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2014 04:53 c0ldfusion wrote:
I don't understand how guys like Frodan and Torte de Lini didn't see this coming though.
This is pretty terrible - I feel sorry for those guys. well, think of it like this: if they hadn't worked for ESGN, would they be better off now?
You mean if they both hadn't taken the job at this place where they shut out the unpaid staff so they can't even get into the office and get their belongings, but instead hooked up with a couple of really rich Brazilian super models, spending their time on a yacht outside Rio, commentating on carnival costumes? It's a tough call...
|
Katowice25012 Posts
what are you on about
To even being to draw that parallel you have to be willfully ignorant about so many things, the least of which is the intent of what Wax said why does that even cross your mind as a reasonable response
|
Sorry, forgot the smiley 
|
Jesus I didn't expect them to dissolve that quickly :/
Poor Frodan  moved to Europe to work for them only to get shafted. I wonder what this means for Azubu and Sapinda.
|
East Gorteau22261 Posts
On June 04 2014 05:12 vult wrote:Jesus I didn't expect them to desolate that quickly :/ Poor Frodan moved to Europe to work for them only to get shafted. I wonder what this means for Azubu and Sapinda.
Why would this have anything to do with Azubu or Sapinda? They are completely legitimate and trustworthy businesses with no ties to Clauf/ESGN. Unlike ESGN, they are wholly transparent and we don't have to worry about their goings-on in the slightest.
|
People see just the failure and I can't blame them. But working 1 year fulltime and getting paid (late, but still, because the company is in germany) is more experience and money, most people will ever see by being active in eSports.
So it is right. In the end one of the questions is: what have you personally learned and gained (or how many friends have you made). Most don't regret it.
|
This is the unfortunate side of new business endeavours. To often we hear of the 'successes' in business, mean while there are to many business failures that are literally wrecking peoples lives.
|
so if they are shut down.. the stuff about money owed being paid in the near future, is that not happening?
|
On June 04 2014 05:14 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2014 05:12 vult wrote:Jesus I didn't expect them to desolate that quickly :/ Poor Frodan moved to Europe to work for them only to get shafted. I wonder what this means for Azubu and Sapinda. Why would this have anything to do with Azubu or Sapinda? They are completely legitimate and trustworthy businesses with no ties to Clauf/ESGN. Unlike ESGN, they are wholly transparent and we don't have to worry about their goings-on in the slightest.
I wouldn't say they have no ties at all, and past evidence points to the contrary of Azubu being trustworthy or transparent.
Unless your sarcasm is not very apparent.
|
On June 04 2014 04:54 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2014 04:53 c0ldfusion wrote:
I don't understand how guys like Frodan and Torte de Lini didn't see this coming though. well, think of it like this: if they hadn't worked for ESGN, would they be better off now?
Yeah, esports is pretty damn hard to make a living of, you can't afford to ever turn down decently paid work, no matter how fishy the employers are.
|
On June 04 2014 04:54 SilverStar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2014 04:47 Pegas wrote:
I won`t be surprised if they find a form to invoke bankrupt so they don`t have to pay a cent. Well they are bankrupt so you can liquidate the remaining assets and thats it.
Yea GL with that. Usualy this "business" model works on 2 parts: one that handles the cash influx other that handles the logistics/rent. Anyway I do hope something will be learned from this.
|
Lorning
Belgica34432 Posts
Died too young, just like AZUBU
|
is this the beginning of the end?
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/vnhI1V7.jpg)
User was warned for this post
|
Poor frodan, second sinking ship he had to leave.
|
On June 04 2014 04:19 tadL wrote:
Thx again to copy paste the whole source completely so that we do not have to share traffic with the real content creators. Serious that is terrible.
To the topic, isnt it strange that the next Blizzard game released a hype for organizers and already a big one failed? Strange strange. EG curse ?
How many richard lewis dollars are you going to pay me to remove the text from the op?
On June 04 2014 05:26 Lorning wrote:
Died too young, just like AZUBU
Azubu still lives in my TL flair. Clauf Kingdom.
|
On June 04 2014 05:25 Pegas wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2014 04:54 SilverStar wrote:On June 04 2014 04:47 Pegas wrote:
I won`t be surprised if they find a form to invoke bankrupt so they don`t have to pay a cent. Well they are bankrupt so you can liquidate the remaining assets and thats it. Yea GL with that. Usualy this "business" model works on 2 parts: one that handles the cash influx other that handles the logistics/rent. Anyway I do hope something will be learned from this.
Yeah you basically compartmentalize the whole business to ensure bankruptcy just affects the shell company that was set up to take the hit in the first place. I used to work for a company that had bankruptcy as a business model a la Donald Trump, I think they declared 7 times in the 3 years I was there.
It's a pretty severe case of wishful thinking if the people affected did not see through this earlier. Or just not doing their homework on the people running the show.
|
Only surprised by how insanely fast this happened. Less than a year? wtf were they doing.
|
On June 04 2014 05:26 Lorning wrote:
Died too young, just like AZUBU
Hey now! At least Azubu paid their players before they flopped over.
|
On June 04 2014 04:54 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2014 04:53 c0ldfusion wrote:
I don't understand how guys like Frodan and Torte de Lini didn't see this coming though. well, think of it like this: if they hadn't worked for ESGN, would they be better off now?
Frodan would have been the one locking the doors to NASL instead of getting locked out lol.
Seriously though, this isn't great for the people involved and as I wrote int he other thread, hopefully they have enough money saved up to move on. Which isn't even a guarantee since ESGN hasn't been paying them lately...
On June 04 2014 05:14 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2014 05:12 vult wrote:Jesus I didn't expect them to desolate that quickly :/ Poor Frodan moved to Europe to work for them only to get shafted. I wonder what this means for Azubu and Sapinda. Why would this have anything to do with Azubu or Sapinda? They are completely legitimate and trustworthy businesses with no ties to Clauf/ESGN. Unlike ESGN, they are wholly transparent and we don't have to worry about their goings-on in the slightest.
While I understand the shadiness behind Sapinda, they are as far as I can tell a solvent entity* that doesn't have anymore liability for ESGN / or for when Azubu finally kicks it. I would think this would mean that Sapinda is going to be done propping up new eSports ventures huh? Would be nice so we can clean up the scene.
* The owner's track record of collapsed businesses, bankruptcies and government fines don't make me that confident in their future though
|
On June 04 2014 05:27 QuixoticO wrote:
Poor frodan, second sinking ship he had to leave.
first one you can certainly feel bad for him, but this one? This is like someone dropped a 10 dollar bill on extremely thin ice and then you feel sorry for the people who went out to get it... everyone saw it coming, he should have as well.
|
This is the NASL syndrome.
ESGN + NASL have IMMENSE production values published by the team.
Esport, if you ain't getting 150k+ viewers simply CAN'T afford to have this level of professionalism. You need to make cuts in the production.
Esport, in the west is very much a TINY industry comparing to the East.
|
On the bright side, this thing did give me a nice new sig.
|
On June 04 2014 05:39 Squat wrote:
On the bright side, this thing did give me a nice new sig.
yeah lets make fun of a nice guy who just lost his job trying to make awesome content for us
|
On June 04 2014 05:39 Squat wrote:
On the bright side, this thing did give me a nice new sig.
lol. that this is the least expecting thing that happend about esgn closing its doorsXD
|
On June 04 2014 05:39 Squat wrote:
On the bright side, this thing did give me a nice new sig.
That's not very nice or sensitive. Frodan worked his ass off to make awesome content for two unsustainable companies only for you to make him look like a fool.
|
On June 04 2014 05:46 vult wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2014 05:39 Squat wrote:
On the bright side, this thing did give me a nice new sig. That's not very nice or sensitive. Frodan worked his ass off to make awesome content for two unsustainable companies only for you to make him look like a fool.
except you can't really compare NASL and ESGN. Everyone has sympathy for the NASL staff, Clauf and the other hand...
|
On June 04 2014 05:37 Xiphos wrote:
This is the NASL syndrome.
ESGN + NASL have IMMENSE production values published by the team.
Esport, if you ain't getting 150k+ viewers simply CAN'T afford to have this level of professionalism. You need to make cuts in the production.
Esport, in the west is very much a TINY industry comparing to the East.
Yep american way, all the way. They see too big everytime. And with that poor NA(KR] scene...
|
On June 04 2014 05:47 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2014 05:46 vult wrote:On June 04 2014 05:39 Squat wrote:
On the bright side, this thing did give me a nice new sig. That's not very nice or sensitive. Frodan worked his ass off to make awesome content for two unsustainable companies only for you to make him look like a fool. except you can't really compare NASL and ESGN. Everyone has sympathy for the NASL staff, Clauf and the other hand...
I'm not having sympathy for Clauf and ESGN as a whole, just Frodan who was trying to make a buck from the work he does.
On June 04 2014 05:50 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2014 05:46 vult wrote:On June 04 2014 05:39 Squat wrote:
On the bright side, this thing did give me a nice new sig. That's not very nice or sensitive. Frodan worked his ass off to make awesome content for two unsustainable companies only for you to make him look like a fool. I didn't make Frodan look like a fool. As I said, if the people involved did not see this coming a mile away, I honestly don't know how to explain it. Looking at the history of the people in charge, the absurd amount of money being injected with no realistic way to generate revenue proportional to what was being spent, it was blatantly obvious something was wrong. I have limited sympathy for people who cannot read the writing on the wall, even when it's done in bright neon-green spray paint.
I guess your right, but if I had an opportunity to follow your dream and work for something that might have even a sliver of hope of working like that, I'd probably take it.
|
On June 04 2014 05:46 vult wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2014 05:39 Squat wrote:
On the bright side, this thing did give me a nice new sig. That's not very nice or sensitive. Frodan worked his ass off to make awesome content for two unsustainable companies only for you to make him look like a fool.
I didn't make Frodan look like a fool. As I said, if the people involved did not see this coming a mile away, I honestly don't know how to explain it. Looking at the history of the people in charge, the absurd amount of money being injected with no realistic way to generate revenue proportional to what was being spent, it was blatantly obvious something was wrong.
I have limited sympathy for people who cannot read the writing on the wall, even when it's done in bright neon-green spray paint.
|
On June 04 2014 05:50 vult wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2014 05:47 sAsImre wrote:On June 04 2014 05:46 vult wrote:On June 04 2014 05:39 Squat wrote:
On the bright side, this thing did give me a nice new sig. That's not very nice or sensitive. Frodan worked his ass off to make awesome content for two unsustainable companies only for you to make him look like a fool. except you can't really compare NASL and ESGN. Everyone has sympathy for the NASL staff, Clauf and the other hand... I'm not having sympathy for Clauf and ESGN as a whole, just Frodan who was trying to make a buck from the work he does.
even when you're trying to make a living of your passion when you get along the people behind Clauf you don't deserve any pity when it sinks.
|
On June 04 2014 05:46 vult wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2014 05:39 Squat wrote:
On the bright side, this thing did give me a nice new sig. That's not very nice or sensitive. Frodan worked his ass off to make awesome content for two unsustainable companies only for you to make him look like a fool.
He made himself a fool. He may or may not work extremely hard, I have no way of knowing but it doesn't change the fact he's personally latched on to a very clear, dubious business and peddled it to the community. He seems incredibly naive on the surface. In general, nowadays I'd say it's safe to stay away from anything GEM, tumba, artosis, Clauf etc., are trying to sell you.
|
Canada16217 Posts
On June 04 2014 05:27 Loccstana wrote:is this the beginning of the end?
highly irrelevant post
|
Playing Devil's Advocate in this thread is extremely difficult to do XD
|
I guess your right, but if I had an opportunity to follow your dream and work for something that might have even a sliver of hope of working like that, I'd probably take it.
If I promised you a job as a secret agent if you worked for my newly started and highly shady company on another continent, would you take it? Following your dreams is one thing, following them right off the end of the pier is another. This really goes beyond what can be considered permissible gullibility.
If something sounds too good to be true, it generally is.
Oh, Unfiltered starting now as well, this should be good.
|
Wow well lets give them some credit, they did offer the best Hearthstone content.
|
Canada13386 Posts
Not surprising in the least. I hope no one had any personal items in the studio before it got locked up.
|
Said this many times in different places but I hope this is the last time we see a company throw money at non live content. Watching replay's several weeks old just isn't going to work in esports these days.
|
On June 04 2014 05:58 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +
I guess your right, but if I had an opportunity to follow your dream and work for something that might have even a sliver of hope of working like that, I'd probably take it.
If I promised you a job as a secret agent if you worked for my newly started and highly shady company on another continent, would you take it? Following your dreams is one thing, following them right off the end of the pier is another. This really goes beyond what can be considered permissible gullibility. If something sounds too good to be true, it generally is. Oh, Unfiltered starting now as well, this should be good.
So what? It's NOT unfortunate for Frodan because you're a genius unlike him?
|
On June 04 2014 06:04 Saechiis wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2014 05:58 Squat wrote:
I guess your right, but if I had an opportunity to follow your dream and work for something that might have even a sliver of hope of working like that, I'd probably take it.
If I promised you a job as a secret agent if you worked for my newly started and highly shady company on another continent, would you take it? Following your dreams is one thing, following them right off the end of the pier is another. This really goes beyond what can be considered permissible gullibility. If something sounds too good to be true, it generally is. Oh, Unfiltered starting now as well, this should be good. So what? It's NOT unfortunate for Frodan because you're a genius unlike him?
when half of TL are considered as geniuses you might revise the definition.
|
On June 04 2014 05:39 Squat wrote:
On the bright side, this thing did give me a nice new sig.
Frodan says something based on what the company plans and how it looks to move forward. It fails and you've decided to attempt to make him look like a joke. That motherfucker has done more to legitimize professional gaming than many ever will.
|
On June 04 2014 06:04 Saechiis wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2014 05:58 Squat wrote:
I guess your right, but if I had an opportunity to follow your dream and work for something that might have even a sliver of hope of working like that, I'd probably take it.
If I promised you a job as a secret agent if you worked for my newly started and highly shady company on another continent, would you take it? Following your dreams is one thing, following them right off the end of the pier is another. This really goes beyond what can be considered permissible gullibility. If something sounds too good to be true, it generally is. Oh, Unfiltered starting now as well, this should be good. So what? It's NOT unfortunate for Frodan because you're a genius unlike him?
That is some creative extrapolation.
|
|
|
On June 04 2014 06:01 ZeromuS wrote:
Not surprising in the least. I hope no one had any personal items in the studio before it got locked up.
This part is wrong. Everybody was in the studio. They have been told: get your personal stuff and then it was closed. Everybody has his belongings. Situation is still very unfortunate.
But don't pity or blame too much. Nobody was stupid and nobody was dream walking. It was a job most people loved, because they got a lot of opportunities in a very short time. It was an episode, in which everybody could learn more than in some years before.
|
On June 04 2014 05:58 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +
I guess your right, but if I had an opportunity to follow your dream and work for something that might have even a sliver of hope of working like that, I'd probably take it.
If I promised you a job as a secret agent if you worked for my newly started and highly shady company on another continent, would you take it? Following your dreams is one thing, following them right off the end of the pier is another. This really goes beyond what can be considered permissible gullibility. If something sounds too good to be true, it generally is. Oh, Unfiltered starting now as well, this should be good.
If you promised me a job, had a reliable CEO and staff, and provided all of the necessities to thoroughly do a fine job to the best of my abilities, with the catch being you don't want me to know how your money is being filtered, ofc I'd take it.
That's the exact same thing that happens in all legitimate businesses as well, so there really isn't any reason to decline it.
Also, your signature is ironic in that the organization that was ESGN was as legitimate as any other company could be, and was working towards making great content, but their support was not sufficient. Frodan didn't say anything wrong.
The fact that ESGN shut down had nothing to do with their staff's efforts.
|
E-sports still has some growing up to do. ESGN broadcasts had production value, but still reeked of "amateur".
|
On June 04 2014 06:13 Shinta) wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2014 05:58 Squat wrote:
I guess your right, but if I had an opportunity to follow your dream and work for something that might have even a sliver of hope of working like that, I'd probably take it.
If I promised you a job as a secret agent if you worked for my newly started and highly shady company on another continent, would you take it? Following your dreams is one thing, following them right off the end of the pier is another. This really goes beyond what can be considered permissible gullibility. If something sounds too good to be true, it generally is. Oh, Unfiltered starting now as well, this should be good. If you promised me a job, had a reliable CEO and staff, and provided all of the necessities to thoroughly do a fine job to the best of my abilities, with the catch being you don't want me to know how your money is being filtered, ofc I'd take it. That's the exact same thing that happens in all legitimate businesses as well, so there really isn't any reason to decline it. Also, your signature is ironic in that the organization that was ESGN was as legitimate as any other company could be, and was working towards making great content, but their support was not sufficient. Frodan didn't say anything wrong. The fact that ESGN shut down had nothing to do with their staff's efforts.
And everything with their funding. Which was available on a public forum.
|
On June 04 2014 04:31 Advantageous wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2014 04:19 tadL wrote:
Thx again to copy paste the whole source completely so that we do not have to share traffic with the real content creators. Serious that is terrible.
To the topic, isnt it strange that the next Blizzard game released a hype for organizers and already a big one failed? Strange strange. EG curse ? honestly... what? maybe you shouldn't be making content if what you're writing is completely incomprehensible... and really? big one? maybe you should get your facts checked before making assumptions...
to what do you reply ? my critic that there is no reason to visit the e.h. because the guy copy pasted everything or to my suprise another Blizzard title promised the golden land and failed?
|
On June 04 2014 06:13 Shinta) wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2014 05:58 Squat wrote:
I guess your right, but if I had an opportunity to follow your dream and work for something that might have even a sliver of hope of working like that, I'd probably take it.
If I promised you a job as a secret agent if you worked for my newly started and highly shady company on another continent, would you take it? Following your dreams is one thing, following them right off the end of the pier is another. This really goes beyond what can be considered permissible gullibility. If something sounds too good to be true, it generally is. Oh, Unfiltered starting now as well, this should be good. If you promised me a job, had a reliable CEO and staff, and provided all of the necessities to thoroughly do a fine job to the best of my abilities, with the catch being you don't want me to know how your money is being filtered, ofc I'd take it. That's the exact same thing that happens in all legitimate businesses as well, so there really isn't any reason to decline it. Also, your signature is ironic in that the organization that was ESGN was as legitimate as any other company could be, and was working towards making great content, but their support was not sufficient. Frodan didn't say anything wrong. The fact that ESGN shut down had nothing to do with their staff's efforts.
That is pretty much the essence of wishful thinking. The problems and trends were there for everyone to see. Not seeing it at that point is a choice. Your analogy just doesn't work, previous history is a very big indicator of what to expect.
|
On June 04 2014 06:06 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2014 06:04 Saechiis wrote:On June 04 2014 05:58 Squat wrote:
I guess your right, but if I had an opportunity to follow your dream and work for something that might have even a sliver of hope of working like that, I'd probably take it.
If I promised you a job as a secret agent if you worked for my newly started and highly shady company on another continent, would you take it? Following your dreams is one thing, following them right off the end of the pier is another. This really goes beyond what can be considered permissible gullibility. If something sounds too good to be true, it generally is. Oh, Unfiltered starting now as well, this should be good. So what? It's NOT unfortunate for Frodan because you're a genius unlike him? when half of TL are considered as geniuses you might revise the definition.
You know, at some point we might consider asking why players, casters, streamers, production people ect keep working for these guys.
Sure we can give them a pass for joining Azubu, but then what persuaded all those people to sign up to GEM? What about ESGN?
There's a lot that we don't hear or know about when it comes to pitching / planning these ventures. The thing that keeps coming back to is that ESGN flat out did not intent to make money in their first year.
So ya, we all knew it wasn't going to make money this year, they knew it too. But what did they plan for next year, the year after that? IIRC, MLG still hasn't had a profitable year after 10-years running.
As people in the thread have been saying they were making great Hearthstone content, so you can't deny they were trying to make a quality product.
Ive been around start-ups my entire career and that's a familiar mantra. Make a good product then figure out the business model. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, of course there's that balance of not blowing money like you're printing it which seems to be the main failing here, and to be sure lack of discipline has killed more than one start-up company.
|
On June 04 2014 06:07 Noobity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2014 05:39 Squat wrote:
On the bright side, this thing did give me a nice new sig. Frodan says something based on what the company plans and how it looks to move forward. It fails and you've decided to attempt to make him look like a joke. That motherfucker has done more to legitimize professional gaming than many ever will.
In what way has Frodan "legitimized professional gaming"? Was he the guy who brought the bad news to Terry the intern?
|
On June 04 2014 05:46 vult wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2014 05:39 Squat wrote:
On the bright side, this thing did give me a nice new sig. That's not very nice or sensitive. Frodan worked his ass off to make awesome content for two unsustainable companies only for you to make him look like a fool.
Do you know Frodan personally or something?
On June 04 2014 06:21 AlternativeEgo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2014 06:07 Noobity wrote:On June 04 2014 05:39 Squat wrote:
On the bright side, this thing did give me a nice new sig. Frodan says something based on what the company plans and how it looks to move forward. It fails and you've decided to attempt to make him look like a joke. That motherfucker has done more to legitimize professional gaming than many ever will. In what way has Frodan "legitimized professional gaming"? Was he the guy who brought the bad news to Terry the intern?
Free Terry.
|
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
I'm sad for the folks who moved to Germany to pursue their passion. I guess I never really believed Clauf was a legitimate organization, so part of me feels that if people were naive enough to believe in Clauf, they deserved it. But I know that's not a good way to think about it. Taking risks to pursue your passion is to be commended, not ridiculed. That's how great things get started, from business to art to sports. It's something that all of the top Sc2 players in the world have done. I just hope that everyone who signed up with Clauf made sure they were taking a risk that they could afford to take. I'm not confident that was the case though.
|
On June 04 2014 06:21 AlternativeEgo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2014 06:07 Noobity wrote:On June 04 2014 05:39 Squat wrote:
On the bright side, this thing did give me a nice new sig. Frodan says something based on what the company plans and how it looks to move forward. It fails and you've decided to attempt to make him look like a joke. That motherfucker has done more to legitimize professional gaming than many ever will. In what way has Frodan "legitimized professional gaming"? Was he the guy who brought the bad news to Terry the intern?
That should be considered killing Esports imo. Terry was the best thing in Esports since Huk sneezed on Machine.
|
So many people bashing that the crew should have seen it coming in this thread...it's not like there's a huge choice of stable companies in esports... they had an opportunity to make a cool show and they went for it. Nothing wrong with that. It might have worked out. I mean not too long ago even ESL took 1+ years to pay prizemoney, companies can turn around or go under.
|
On June 04 2014 06:14 tadL wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2014 04:31 Advantageous wrote:On June 04 2014 04:19 tadL wrote:
Thx again to copy paste the whole source completely so that we do not have to share traffic with the real content creators. Serious that is terrible.
To the topic, isnt it strange that the next Blizzard game released a hype for organizers and already a big one failed? Strange strange. EG curse ? honestly... what? maybe you shouldn't be making content if what you're writing is completely incomprehensible... and really? big one? maybe you should get your facts checked before making assumptions... to what do you reply ? my critic that there is no reason to visit the e.h. because the guy copy pasted everything or to my suprise another Blizzard title promised the golden land and failed?
What does Blizzard have to do with this? The game itself presented itself properly, the content created was great, and entertaining, and people enjoy playing HS. People are attacking your post because you're simultaneously flaming the community here for a cross post, as well as arbitrarily attacking Blizzard. Blizzard had no part in this at all except provide the games for which ESGN decided to cover. I guess Riot and Capcom should be blamed too since ESGN covered both Street Fighter 4 and League of Legends right? Wait no, you only called out Blizzard because you obviously have some bias.
|
I'm not surprised at all this happened. There were red flags everywhere. ESGN had a bad business plan from the start. It takes time to build brand loyalty in esports. Too much, too fast and you end up with no cash or even a pot to piss in. All the people that made content for/with them did a great job though. It's not your fault this company sold you a pipe dream.
|
juicyjames
United States3815 Posts
|
|
|
Hmm. More bad news.
I guess it's all over. I don't believe anymore. I will keep watching and playing, but without much hope for this game surviving with a pro scene thriving in a few years.
|
I guess there isn't much to add.... sorry Frodan and company, hopefully he can go back into the ESL fold.
|
onGamers are at best a spokesperson for clauf, all they do is publish press releases. Best thing to do is to just ignore everything done by clauf on TL and never mention them again. Don't feature their streams, don't mention their tournaments and just let them rot till they finally give up on e-sports and let them try scamming some other field.
|
|
|
On June 04 2014 07:46 Mozdk wrote:
Hmm. More bad news.
I guess it's all over. I don't believe anymore. I will keep watching and playing, but without much hope for this game surviving with a pro scene thriving in a few years.
What game? This has nothing to do with Starcraft.
|
On June 04 2014 06:23 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2014 05:46 vult wrote:On June 04 2014 05:39 Squat wrote:
On the bright side, this thing did give me a nice new sig. That's not very nice or sensitive. Frodan worked his ass off to make awesome content for two unsustainable companies only for you to make him look like a fool. Do you know Frodan personally or something?
No I just respect those who put effort into providing us free content. I might have gotten a little too passionate in the thread defending him, and yes he should have been more careful/mindful of what he was getting into, but I feel his efforts have at least legitimized himself as a person in the scene.
I guess trying to defend him was a bad idea 
|
What's interesting is that they had partnerships with ESL / GomTV / GameFly. Kind of goes back to my earlier question about just what was ESGN pitching for their plans to get such buy in from people in the industry, which is so contrasted with the contempt of most people on TL have towards them.
Although, I guess partnering with ESGN wasn't exposing these guys to much risk, since the alternative to ESGN content appears to be no-content so why not take a relatively low-risk chance.
|
United States97276 Posts
On June 04 2014 06:26 tree.hugger wrote:
I'm sad for the folks who moved to Germany to pursue their passion. I guess I never really believed Clauf was a legitimate organization, so part of me feels that if people were naive enough to believe in Clauf, they deserved it. But I know that's not a good way to think about it. Taking risks to pursue your passion is to be commended, not ridiculed. That's how great things get started, from business to art to sports. It's something that all of the top Sc2 players in the world have done. I just hope that everyone who signed up with Clauf made sure they were taking a risk that they could afford to take. I'm not confident that was the case though.
This pretty much sums up how I feel about everything. Good luck to everyone that was involved and getting screwed. hopefully things don't get too bad for them.
|
|
|
I actually am more mad at Clauf than I am sorry for the staff (Believe me, I feel very bad for them). It's just bullshit that they are trying to start up new projects and fail every single time. There's nothing wrong with trying again. But shouldn't they have learned from their mistakes and tried to stay down low until they got their shit together?
I can respect Clauf for its efforts, but their naivety is just plain disgusting. Just look at the people who had to suffer from this lack of professionalism. It's just disgusting...
|
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On June 04 2014 06:23 Dodgin wrote:
Free Terry.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/dPM8kQl.png)
|
On June 04 2014 04:25 Niko_Thien wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2014 04:24 Squat wrote:
I am totally shocked and appalled by this utterly unforeseen turn of events. I am also confident that everyone involved will be compensated fully within a reasonable period of time.
I mean how much longer are we going to be bedazzled by the same hucksters pulling the same old stunt? Any bets on how long GEM and Abuzu 2.0 will last?
It's Korea. One must ask the question, "Will azubu get KeSPA's support?" before we can really say anything about that. I also want to point out that everything made in Korea - in general - is stable due to the monopoly-like economy.
On June 04 2014 10:53 lichter wrote:
I'm with these guys.
Terry got paid Jack and shit just as Jack left town at NASL. While I understand that not everyone can actually do something like this unpaid, especially post-university years, that shows real passion. Real love for what you do.
The guys at ESGN, well, they love what they do, but I imagine all of them are now beyond their university years. They have no viable way of doing stuff for free for extended periods of time any more.
|
I like how they said "We had no choice but to shut down.". Really? How hard is it to make sure you don't overspend on hiring employees, prize money and studio costs. Ugh it pisses me off how dumb some of these start up esport companies are. It really isn't that hard to figure out a budget plan that you can handle and not rely on imaginary money you think you'll make to cover costs. It was never that "We had no choice but to shut down." it was their own stupidity from the beginning that led to this not because they didn't have a choice. This is just disgusting and shitty for all those who won't get paid.
|
On June 04 2014 04:21 Niko_Thien wrote:
Oh yeah.."people will be paid" :D Does anyone actually believe this at this point?
people will get laid paid...
this will be another "thank you" scenario...
|
|
|
In a move, supposedly to ensure that no equipment was taken, the studio was just locked and no-one informed. Staff turned up to the studio only to find their access denied.
LOOOOOL this is just hilarious to be honest. I mean, it sucks for the people involved, but... wow. What a mess!
|
well its good to know they had a solid business model that was able to see them through a whole three months of content production before going belly up.
|
This quote sums everything up perfectly
"Honest answer is we haven't put much thought into this," Reichert said.
|
On June 04 2014 04:38 ahswtini wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2014 04:35 ssxsilver wrote:
I take it all the people who moved to Germany are gonna have to pay their own flights back =/... May be the least of their worries - will they even have anything to go back to
they have experiences to put into their resume, and future employers will recruit them out of sympathy
'worked for clauf and abuzu, that notorious paper company that scammed me and others of months of salary'
|
On June 04 2014 13:16 sharky246 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2014 04:38 ahswtini wrote:On June 04 2014 04:35 ssxsilver wrote:
I take it all the people who moved to Germany are gonna have to pay their own flights back =/... May be the least of their worries - will they even have anything to go back to they have experiences to put into their resume, and future employers will recruit them out of sympathy 'worked for clauf and abuzu, that notorious paper company that scammed me and others of months of salary'
Displays loyalty too. It sends them a message that "Wow so even if my payment to their salaries comes a bit late, they wouldn't make complaints about it and just plow through their works. Those people have great work ethics."
|
On June 04 2014 06:26 tree.hugger wrote:
I'm sad for the folks who moved to Germany to pursue their passion. I guess I never really believed Clauf was a legitimate organization, so part of me feels that if people were naive enough to believe in Clauf, they deserved it. But I know that's not a good way to think about it. Taking risks to pursue your passion is to be commended, not ridiculed. That's how great things get started, from business to art to sports. It's something that all of the top Sc2 players in the world have done. I just hope that everyone who signed up with Clauf made sure they were taking a risk that they could afford to take. I'm not confident that was the case though.
Let's be fair, though. When a known crook shows up at your door and offers you your dream job on a plate and you take it, that's not following a dream, that's taking a shortcut and hoping it somehow works out in the end.
That is not how great things start.
|
On June 04 2014 12:59 jmbthirteen wrote:This quote sums everything up perfectly
lol. Feel sorry for all the people tied into all this mess....wish the staff the best of luck in getting paid.
|
On June 04 2014 04:25 Niko_Thien wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2014 04:24 Squat wrote:
I am totally shocked and appalled by this utterly unforeseen turn of events. I am also confident that everyone involved will be compensated fully within a reasonable period of time.
I mean how much longer are we going to be bedazzled by the same hucksters pulling the same old stunt? Any bets on how long GEM and Abuzu 2.0 will last?
CLG already left Azubu for Twitch and they were the first ones to join Azubu. Right now Curse and GEM are keeping Azubu alive but that's it.
|
I don't see how GEM could help papa Azubu to stay alive. GEM lives on Clauf stamps too.
|
ahahahahaahahahaahhahahah oh god hahaha
PLEASE FNATIC DITCH ABUZU
|
Anyone else here see this coming the minute you saw their studio set?
Poor Frodan. Poor Chance.
So, when do we see the next incarnation?
|
On June 07 2014 04:36 felisconcolori wrote:
Anyone else here see this coming the minute you saw their studio set?
Poor Frodan. Poor Chance.
So, when do we see the next incarnation?
But they will continue, they still got their amazing ESGN Points system left, which absolutely amazing and will help to unify the esports scene <3
|
On June 07 2014 04:36 felisconcolori wrote:
Anyone else here see this coming the minute you saw their studio set?
Poor Frodan. Poor Chance.
So, when do we see the next incarnation?
According to what Richard Lewis said on the latest episode of Live on Three, they are discussing two options for ESGN atm:
a) Get a new studio that is smaller and less expensive and basically try again.
b) Become a "TV channel" for Azubu.tv with 24/7 content.
So I guess either of those options will be the next incarnation. I just feel really really sorry for all those who were desperate enough to work in eSports to take a job with ESGN. I just hope eSports will eventually get to the point where shit like this will finally stop happening. I mean anyone could tell after 1 episode of Fight Night that they were spending way too much money.
|
On June 07 2014 05:30 Lorch wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2014 04:36 felisconcolori wrote:
Anyone else here see this coming the minute you saw their studio set?
Poor Frodan. Poor Chance.
So, when do we see the next incarnation? According to what Richard Lewis said on the latest episode of Live on Three, they are discussing two options for ESGN atm: a) Get a new studio that is smaller and less expensive and basically try again. b) Become a "TV channel" for Azubu.tv with 24/7 content. So I guess either of those options will be the next incarnation. I just feel really really sorry for all those who were desperate enough to work in eSports to take a job with ESGN. I just hope eSports will eventually get to the point where shit like this will finally stop happening. I mean anyone could tell after 1 episode of Fight Night that they were spending way too much money.
Who wants to watch a 24/7 esports stream in the first place? I mean thats one of the great advantages of the internet with tons of streams, VODs etc to choose from - you can make your own tv programm without relying on some "TV" channel. Don't think such a concept will ever work out.
|
On June 07 2014 08:38 Niko_Thien wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2014 05:30 Lorch wrote:On June 07 2014 04:36 felisconcolori wrote:
Anyone else here see this coming the minute you saw their studio set?
Poor Frodan. Poor Chance.
So, when do we see the next incarnation? According to what Richard Lewis said on the latest episode of Live on Three, they are discussing two options for ESGN atm: a) Get a new studio that is smaller and less expensive and basically try again. b) Become a "TV channel" for Azubu.tv with 24/7 content. So I guess either of those options will be the next incarnation. I just feel really really sorry for all those who were desperate enough to work in eSports to take a job with ESGN. I just hope eSports will eventually get to the point where shit like this will finally stop happening. I mean anyone could tell after 1 episode of Fight Night that they were spending way too much money. Who wants to watch a 24/7 esports stream in the first place? I mean thats one of the great advantages of the internet with tons of streams, VODs etc to choose from - you can make your own tv programm without relying on some "TV" channel. Don't think such a concept will ever work out.
I dunno, but I still miss IPL running their content 24/7 with cycling events and repeats. I mean, sometimes I don't want to go looking for something to watch or listen to in the background, but I knew that they would just about always have something good running on their stream that I probably hadn't seen because of my work schedule. It's like TV - yeah, a lot of people can find what they want to watch via DVD/BluRay, streaming netflix, hulu, whatever... but when you don't have a specific show you want to watch, you can just turn it on and run through channels until you find something. You can almost do the same thing with Twitch in general, but the quality varies.
|
ESGN had such good ideas and really many talents. It was very enjoyable.
Still it is a perfect example how even a decent product can fail if PR/marketing is not good enough. :/
|
On June 08 2014 02:51 felisconcolori wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2014 08:38 Niko_Thien wrote:On June 07 2014 05:30 Lorch wrote:On June 07 2014 04:36 felisconcolori wrote:
Anyone else here see this coming the minute you saw their studio set?
Poor Frodan. Poor Chance.
So, when do we see the next incarnation? According to what Richard Lewis said on the latest episode of Live on Three, they are discussing two options for ESGN atm: a) Get a new studio that is smaller and less expensive and basically try again. b) Become a "TV channel" for Azubu.tv with 24/7 content. So I guess either of those options will be the next incarnation. I just feel really really sorry for all those who were desperate enough to work in eSports to take a job with ESGN. I just hope eSports will eventually get to the point where shit like this will finally stop happening. I mean anyone could tell after 1 episode of Fight Night that they were spending way too much money. Who wants to watch a 24/7 esports stream in the first place? I mean thats one of the great advantages of the internet with tons of streams, VODs etc to choose from - you can make your own tv programm without relying on some "TV" channel. Don't think such a concept will ever work out. I dunno, but I still miss IPL running their content 24/7 with cycling events and repeats. I mean, sometimes I don't want to go looking for something to watch or listen to in the background, but I knew that they would just about always have something good running on their stream that I probably hadn't seen because of my work schedule. It's like TV - yeah, a lot of people can find what they want to watch via DVD/BluRay, streaming netflix, hulu, whatever... but when you don't have a specific show you want to watch, you can just turn it on and run through channels until you find something. You can almost do the same thing with Twitch in general, but the quality varies.
Yeah I kinda see your point, that would be an interesting topic for a market survey, how people behave in their media consumption these days.
|
On June 04 2014 04:19 Fusilero wrote:
How could this happen, I'm utterly shocked at this completely unexpected behaviour from ESGN. I thought they and clauf were so trustworthy and legitimate I just can't comprehend what could cause this turn of events.
Unbelievable right rofl XD
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
