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On December 03 2013 06:21 Hider wrote:
Given how awfull Sjow actually plays, these games are way too close. If I didn't know it was Sjow playing, I would have thought it was diamond-league level.
Please, 3 cc vs proxy gate is a game that even the most nubby Protoss should win. He got smashed in two other games and only lasted as long as he did because he was against the spoon Terran.
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Sjow is known for intelligent precise play with low APM.
Seems fitting to switch to Protoss. On racial APM comparisons Protoss consistently places the lowest of the three races. The difficulty of playing Protoss is related to the strengths of Sjow, he should do well. In fact, he probably should have tried that much earlier in the past.
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On December 03 2013 06:27 scypio wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 06:24 scypio wrote:This was a straightforward macro game and Thorzain had the edge all the time, since his first reaper attack. g5 Polar Night.  Sjow vs  Throzain. 0:00 Sjow spawns at the bottom 2:40 gate gas pylon core opening for sjow 3:30 scv scout in. zealot runs around. stalker otw. 4:30 sjow chases away the repar. moves out with the little 1-1-1 (one zealot, one stalker, one msc  ) 5:40 tzain kills every unit in the 1-1-1. Expansion ready for sjow, so is for Tzain. 7:30 4g robo ready. 49/52 supply for sjow. looks a little dead. 9:00 cannons in both mineral lines. 9:45 builds proxy pylons, sees tanks and bunkres, loses obs to turret.
10:40 moves in anyway. stream stutters but I guess he dies now.
11:20 attack gets squashed but sjow has a third now
12:50 ... and some templars
13:20 kills hellions at the third.
14:40 130 supply for sjow.
15:00 145 supply. some archons.
16:00 warp prism inbound... denied. Archon attack denied. Tzain building CCs number 5,6,7 probably.
17:50 tzain has tanks and bunkers everywhere.
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I've been watching his stream, he really likes scrolling around a lot. (edge scroll)
He could do so much more if he used camera keys / the base cam key, especially with his low apm.
Strategically, he'll learn protoss fast, I think. He's a smart guy, his strength with terran were also strategic plays.
Top50 GM is far, far away right now.
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On December 03 2013 06:31 scypio wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 06:27 scypio wrote:On December 03 2013 06:24 scypio wrote:This was a straightforward macro game and Thorzain had the edge all the time, since his first reaper attack. g5 Polar Night. Sjow vs Throzain. 0:00 Sjow spawns at the bottom 2:40 gate gas pylon core opening for sjow 3:30 scv scout in. zealot runs around. stalker otw. 4:30 sjow chases away the repar. moves out with the little 1-1-1 (one zealot, one stalker, one msc ) 5:40 tzain kills every unit in the 1-1-1. Expansion ready for sjow, so is for Tzain. 7:30 4g robo ready. 49/52 supply for sjow. looks a little dead. 9:00 cannons in both mineral lines. 9:45 builds proxy pylons, sees tanks and bunkres, loses obs to turret. 10:40 moves in anyway. stream stutters but I guess he dies now. 11:20 attack gets squashed but sjow has a third now 12:50 ... and some templars 13:20 kills hellions at the third. 14:40 130 supply for sjow. 15:00 145 supply. some archons. 16:00 warp prism inbound... denied. Archon attack denied. Tzain building CCs number 5,6,7 probably. 17:50 tzain has tanks and bunkers everywhere.
19:00 Sjow making fourth nexus at the bottom left. loses units randomly walking into siege fire. Tzain moves out.
20:40 hellbat siege tank ghost banshee for tzain. immortals ht archons for sjow. Sjow kinda holds. down to 104 supply
22:40 thorzain moves in for the kill... 3 VRs try to save the day but ghosts snipe them.
24:40 3 banshees attack the fourth. Minereals mined out. ghostmech kills the remaining army. Sjow ggs.
Sjow vs Throzain 2:3
"Next time I'll beat him... easy" says Sjow.
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On December 03 2013 06:29 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 06:21 Hider wrote:
Given how awfull Sjow actually plays, these games are way too close. If I didn't know it was Sjow playing, I would have thought it was diamond-league level. Please, 3 cc vs proxy gate is a game that even the most nubby Protoss should win. He got smashed in two other games and only lasted as long as he did because he was against the spoon Terran.
Did you watch G4? That was way too close and Sjow made multiple big mistakes and overall just showed bad mechanics.
Spoon terran also isn't appropriate at all here since G4 was a base-trade.
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On December 03 2013 06:39 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 06:29 Plansix wrote:On December 03 2013 06:21 Hider wrote:
Given how awfull Sjow actually plays, these games are way too close. If I didn't know it was Sjow playing, I would have thought it was diamond-league level. Please, 3 cc vs proxy gate is a game that even the most nubby Protoss should win. He got smashed in two other games and only lasted as long as he did because he was against the spoon Terran. Did you watch G4? That was way too close and Sjow made multiple big mistakes and overall just showed bad mechanics.
how do you dare to bring logic to the discussion
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On December 03 2013 06:39 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 06:29 Plansix wrote:On December 03 2013 06:21 Hider wrote:
Given how awfull Sjow actually plays, these games are way too close. If I didn't know it was Sjow playing, I would have thought it was diamond-league level. Please, 3 cc vs proxy gate is a game that even the most nubby Protoss should win. He got smashed in two other games and only lasted as long as he did because he was against the spoon Terran. Did you watch G4? That was way too close and Sjow made multiple big mistakes and overall just showed bad mechanics.
I can't , I'm at work. I was commenting on the losing to a proxy gate vs 3cc. You would have to be magic to win as a Terran in that game.
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IN reality though this is one of his first days..... I tried offracing I feel like a fish out of water or a INfant trying to tie my shoes hahahaha its really weird lol
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Thorzain takes advantage of Sjow's inexperience with protoss in game 5 by going unconventional.
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On December 03 2013 06:42 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 06:39 Hider wrote:On December 03 2013 06:29 Plansix wrote:On December 03 2013 06:21 Hider wrote:
Given how awfull Sjow actually plays, these games are way too close. If I didn't know it was Sjow playing, I would have thought it was diamond-league level. Please, 3 cc vs proxy gate is a game that even the most nubby Protoss should win. He got smashed in two other games and only lasted as long as he did because he was against the spoon Terran. Did you watch G4? That was way too close and Sjow made multiple big mistakes and overall just showed bad mechanics. I can't , I'm at work. I was commenting on the losing to a proxy gate vs 3cc. You would have to be magic to win as a Terran in that game.
Well, Sjow said that he should have won G4 and with a little more practice he is bound to do that.
I trust his judgment on this.
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On December 03 2013 06:42 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 06:39 Hider wrote:On December 03 2013 06:29 Plansix wrote:On December 03 2013 06:21 Hider wrote:
Given how awfull Sjow actually plays, these games are way too close. If I didn't know it was Sjow playing, I would have thought it was diamond-league level. Please, 3 cc vs proxy gate is a game that even the most nubby Protoss should win. He got smashed in two other games and only lasted as long as he did because he was against the spoon Terran. Did you watch G4? That was way too close and Sjow made multiple big mistakes and overall just showed bad mechanics. I can't , I'm at work. I was commenting on the losing to a proxy gate vs 3cc. You would have to be magic to win as a Terran in that game.
Then why on earth are you commenting on the series and talking about how he got smashed in the 2 other games when you haven't watched them?
Further, your post easily ignored that Sjow won 2 games and not just one.
Well, Sjow said that he should have won G4 and with a little more practice he is bound to do that.
If Sjow hadn't got giantly supply blocked twice early game. If he hadn't forgotten about the Oracle. If he had just overall had better macro (chrono usage + spending skill). If he actually had a plan on how to deal with drops. If he wasn't so incredibly slow about pulling probes to one of the drops.....
Then the timing attack he did would absolutely had killed Thorzain. But even after all those mistakes, he still had a shot of beating Thorzain if all of his HT's hadn't been clumped against the EMP.
His mistakes should be easily fixable as they simply are unforgiveable at master+ level. So yeh, if Thorzain continue to play at that level, then Sjow has a decent shot at beating him next game.
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On December 03 2013 06:46 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 06:42 Plansix wrote:On December 03 2013 06:39 Hider wrote:On December 03 2013 06:29 Plansix wrote:On December 03 2013 06:21 Hider wrote:
Given how awfull Sjow actually plays, these games are way too close. If I didn't know it was Sjow playing, I would have thought it was diamond-league level. Please, 3 cc vs proxy gate is a game that even the most nubby Protoss should win. He got smashed in two other games and only lasted as long as he did because he was against the spoon Terran. Did you watch G4? That was way too close and Sjow made multiple big mistakes and overall just showed bad mechanics. I can't , I'm at work. I was commenting on the losing to a proxy gate vs 3cc. You would have to be magic to win as a Terran in that game. Then why on earth are you commenting on the series and talking about how he got smashed in the 2 other games when you haven't watched them? Further, your post easily ignored that Sjow won 2 games and not just one.
the fight against negativity and whine against P should not be stopped.
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On December 03 2013 06:46 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 06:42 Plansix wrote:On December 03 2013 06:39 Hider wrote:On December 03 2013 06:29 Plansix wrote:On December 03 2013 06:21 Hider wrote:
Given how awfull Sjow actually plays, these games are way too close. If I didn't know it was Sjow playing, I would have thought it was diamond-league level. Please, 3 cc vs proxy gate is a game that even the most nubby Protoss should win. He got smashed in two other games and only lasted as long as he did because he was against the spoon Terran. Did you watch G4? That was way too close and Sjow made multiple big mistakes and overall just showed bad mechanics. I can't , I'm at work. I was commenting on the losing to a proxy gate vs 3cc. You would have to be magic to win as a Terran in that game. Then why on earth are you commenting on the series and talking about how he got smashed in the 2 other games when you haven't watched them? Further, your post easily ignored that Sjow won 2 games and not just one.
The live reports made it seem like he lost all the games buy the one wih the proxy gate. I was not aware he won two games, because it sure didn't seem like it from the reports.
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On December 03 2013 06:34 virpi wrote:
I've been watching his stream, he really likes scrolling around a lot. (edge scroll)
He could do so much more if he used camera keys / the base cam key, especially with his low apm.
Strategically, he'll learn protoss fast, I think. He's a smart guy, his strength with terran were also strategic plays.
Top50 GM is far, far away right now.
Really? He made Masters today
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On December 03 2013 06:49 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 06:46 Hider wrote:On December 03 2013 06:42 Plansix wrote:On December 03 2013 06:39 Hider wrote:On December 03 2013 06:29 Plansix wrote:On December 03 2013 06:21 Hider wrote:
Given how awfull Sjow actually plays, these games are way too close. If I didn't know it was Sjow playing, I would have thought it was diamond-league level. Please, 3 cc vs proxy gate is a game that even the most nubby Protoss should win. He got smashed in two other games and only lasted as long as he did because he was against the spoon Terran. Did you watch G4? That was way too close and Sjow made multiple big mistakes and overall just showed bad mechanics. I can't , I'm at work. I was commenting on the losing to a proxy gate vs 3cc. You would have to be magic to win as a Terran in that game. Then why on earth are you commenting on the series and talking about how he got smashed in the 2 other games when you haven't watched them? Further, your post easily ignored that Sjow won 2 games and not just one. The live reports made it seem like he lost all the games buy the one wih the proxy gate. I was not aware he won two games, because it sure didn't seem like it from the reports.
On December 03 2013 05:46 scypio wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 05:43 scypio wrote:On December 03 2013 05:40 scypio wrote:On December 03 2013 05:29 scypio wrote:Sjow POV LR :D Thorzain vs Sjow g1 Yeonsu LE. + Show Spoiler +
0:00 Thorzain spawns top right. Sjow spawns bottom left.
1:55 13gate 14 gas from sjow. second pylon at 15. chronoboosting probes.
3:00 cyber core and second gas otw. No zealot.
4:00 Tzains reaper arrives. Expo eng-bay blocked.
4:33 Sjow kills the reaper with his first stalker.
5:00 3 more gates from Sjow. no expansion still.
6:30 4 gates opening. Thorzain is ready with a bunker and a marauder.
8:00 supply blocked at 41 supply. blinks into main with 8 stalkers.
9:26: blinks in with 16 stalkers. Tzain has medivicas and stim. half of the stalkers die.
10:30 expansion for Sjow building. 53 supply, 13 stalkers with blink.
12:30 Sjow at 62 supply. Tzain with a ton of MMM.
14:20 sjow at 86 supply. building templar archives. Tzain moving out, takes down the MCS. End is nigh. 15:45 Tzain with SCV train? or possibly just taking a fourth. 16:34 SCV train it is. 8+ medivacs, a ton of MM and a ton of scvs. everything dies. Thorzain vs Sjow g1 Yeonsu LE 1:0 Thorzain vs Sjow g2 Akilon Wastes. 0:00 Sjow spawns top left. 3:00 same gate-gas-core opening from sjow. He makes a zealot this time. 4:20 exp for sjow. Chases away the reaper with first stalker. MSC is out. 5:20 sjow attacks with zealot stalker and MSC. Tzain lifts his nat. 7:15 1gate exp into msc pressure into twiligth into blink. Adding 3 more gates now. 8:15 Tzain drops widow mines and marines. no detection for sjow. 9:35 robo completes, obs starts. blink is done. 11:00 11 stalkers blink into tzains main. He has two tanks, MM and a third CC. All stalkers die. And the msc. 12:30 frontal assault with zealot and stalkers. Somehow he breaks through and Tzain dies. W t f. Sjow is crying. Thorzain vs Sjow g2 - sjow wins. 1:1
can't read and you accuse the live reporter ?
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On December 03 2013 06:49 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 06:46 Hider wrote:On December 03 2013 06:42 Plansix wrote:On December 03 2013 06:39 Hider wrote:On December 03 2013 06:29 Plansix wrote:On December 03 2013 06:21 Hider wrote:
Given how awfull Sjow actually plays, these games are way too close. If I didn't know it was Sjow playing, I would have thought it was diamond-league level. Please, 3 cc vs proxy gate is a game that even the most nubby Protoss should win. He got smashed in two other games and only lasted as long as he did because he was against the spoon Terran. Did you watch G4? That was way too close and Sjow made multiple big mistakes and overall just showed bad mechanics. I can't , I'm at work. I was commenting on the losing to a proxy gate vs 3cc. You would have to be magic to win as a Terran in that game. Then why on earth are you commenting on the series and talking about how he got smashed in the 2 other games when you haven't watched them? Further, your post easily ignored that Sjow won 2 games and not just one. The live reports made it seem like he lost all the games buy the one wih the proxy gate. I was not aware he won two games, because it sure didn't seem like it from the reports.
You missed the part where he amoved a bunch of GW units into Tzains siege lines + MMM and won after Tzain built 4th cc...
In related news: Sjow just hit master.
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On December 03 2013 06:29 figq wrote:
Sjow is known for intelligent precise play with low APM.
Seems fitting to switch to Protoss. On racial APM comparisons Protoss consistently places the lowest of the three races. The difficulty of playing Protoss is related to the strengths of Sjow, he should do well. In fact, he probably should have tried that much earlier in the past.
Protoss APM is only "seemingly" lowest, because other races boost their APM with things like "zzzzzzzzzzz" or "aaaaaa".
It doesn't mean Protoss is played by slower players, or you can be slower with protoss than other races.
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On December 03 2013 06:52 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 06:49 Plansix wrote:On December 03 2013 06:46 Hider wrote:On December 03 2013 06:42 Plansix wrote:On December 03 2013 06:39 Hider wrote:On December 03 2013 06:29 Plansix wrote:On December 03 2013 06:21 Hider wrote:
Given how awfull Sjow actually plays, these games are way too close. If I didn't know it was Sjow playing, I would have thought it was diamond-league level. Please, 3 cc vs proxy gate is a game that even the most nubby Protoss should win. He got smashed in two other games and only lasted as long as he did because he was against the spoon Terran. Did you watch G4? That was way too close and Sjow made multiple big mistakes and overall just showed bad mechanics. I can't , I'm at work. I was commenting on the losing to a proxy gate vs 3cc. You would have to be magic to win as a Terran in that game. Then why on earth are you commenting on the series and talking about how he got smashed in the 2 other games when you haven't watched them? Further, your post easily ignored that Sjow won 2 games and not just one. The live reports made it seem like he lost all the games buy the one wih the proxy gate. I was not aware he won two games, because it sure didn't seem like it from the reports. Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 05:46 scypio wrote:On December 03 2013 05:43 scypio wrote:On December 03 2013 05:40 scypio wrote:On December 03 2013 05:29 scypio wrote:Sjow POV LR :D Thorzain vs Sjow g1 Yeonsu LE. + Show Spoiler +
0:00 Thorzain spawns top right. Sjow spawns bottom left.
1:55 13gate 14 gas from sjow. second pylon at 15. chronoboosting probes.
3:00 cyber core and second gas otw. No zealot.
4:00 Tzains reaper arrives. Expo eng-bay blocked.
4:33 Sjow kills the reaper with his first stalker.
5:00 3 more gates from Sjow. no expansion still.
6:30 4 gates opening. Thorzain is ready with a bunker and a marauder.
8:00 supply blocked at 41 supply. blinks into main with 8 stalkers.
9:26: blinks in with 16 stalkers. Tzain has medivicas and stim. half of the stalkers die.
10:30 expansion for Sjow building. 53 supply, 13 stalkers with blink.
12:30 Sjow at 62 supply. Tzain with a ton of MMM.
14:20 sjow at 86 supply. building templar archives. Tzain moving out, takes down the MCS. End is nigh. 15:45 Tzain with SCV train? or possibly just taking a fourth. 16:34 SCV train it is. 8+ medivacs, a ton of MM and a ton of scvs. everything dies. Thorzain vs Sjow g1 Yeonsu LE 1:0 Thorzain vs Sjow g2 Akilon Wastes. 0:00 Sjow spawns top left. 3:00 same gate-gas-core opening from sjow. He makes a zealot this time. 4:20 exp for sjow. Chases away the reaper with first stalker. MSC is out. 5:20 sjow attacks with zealot stalker and MSC. Tzain lifts his nat. 7:15 1gate exp into msc pressure into twiligth into blink. Adding 3 more gates now. 8:15 Tzain drops widow mines and marines. no detection for sjow. 9:35 robo completes, obs starts. blink is done. 11:00 11 stalkers blink into tzains main. He has two tanks, MM and a third CC. All stalkers die. And the msc. 12:30 frontal assault with zealot and stalkers. Somehow he breaks through and Tzain dies. W t f. Sjow is crying. Thorzain vs Sjow g2 - sjow wins. 1:1 can't read and you accuse the live reporter ?
Maybe I should have written that Thorzain got protossed in G2 :D
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On December 03 2013 06:29 figq wrote:
Sjow is known for intelligent precise play with low APM.
Seems fitting to switch to Protoss. On racial APM comparisons Protoss consistently places the lowest of the three races. The difficulty of playing Protoss is related to the strengths of Sjow, he should do well. In fact, he probably should have tried that much earlier in the past.
Not sure about that one, while it is true that Protoss average apm tends to be the lowest. Usually the apm pikes during battle are the highest for Protoss.
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EPT
