EPTBisu retires - Page 42
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On September 10 2013 09:17 Qikz wrote: I seriously hate to tell you this but I think sc2 still would have happened even if the whole esports thing didnt exist. This. Look, I respect Bisu for what he has done for professional BW. But a lot of people here have to realize that pro BW was actually not a huge part of Starcraft overall (in terms of game sales and casual players). There were tons of people that did not even know there was a pro scene. I would say that the sc2 pro scene (especially in Korean) probably wasn't possible without the BW pro scene (most of the players were ex-BW pros). But SC2 itself, it would have been fine. WoW doesn't have a pro scene, Diablo doesn't have a pro scene. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 10 2013 11:21 vthree wrote: This. Look, I respect Bisu for what he has done for professional BW. But a lot of people here have to realize that pro BW was actually not a huge part of Starcraft overall (in terms of game sales and casual players). There were tons of people that did not even know there was a pro scene. I would say that the sc2 pro scene (especially in Korean) probably wasn't possible without the BW pro scene (most of the players were ex-BW pros). But SC2 itself, it would have been fine. WoW doesn't have a pro scene, Diablo doesn't have a pro scene. People have a hard time grasping that some day BW was going to fade out and just want something to lash out at. If it wasn't SC2, it would be LoL. | ||
Fionn
United States23455 Posts
On September 10 2013 11:23 Plansix wrote: People have a hard time grasping that some day BW was going to fade out and just want something to lash out at. If it wasn't SC2, it would be LoL. This is true. Even if SC2 didn't come along, LoL would have overtaken Brood War. Without the Match Fixing Scandal, BW might have still been #1 until 2013-2014, but LoL would have taken over the spot eventually. | ||
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Ciryandor
United States3735 Posts
On September 10 2013 02:00 Plansix wrote: I don't know, are they being broadcast on major networks or Twitch TV on some guys channel? I am sure if NBC said "Yo, we are going to show your game and not pay you anything," the discussion might be a little different. And Riot has a lock down on all LoL content anyways, so its not like there is a lot going in the non-LCS scene. DotA 2 is shown on TV in China, and League has always had non-LCS events, just that everyone on the cusp of LCS play or higher doesn't want to participate because it's not worth it in terms of prize pool. Even still, for Valve or Riot, if some channel says they'll broadcast their game for free, the "payment" they get is game publicity and eyeballs who would have not known of the competitive side of their game otherwise. At least they have enough sense to not arbitrarily lock things down. Finally, TI3 got a MILLION viewers, and LCS Season 3 Worlds will probably get a larger figure. That is a 1 on Nielsen ratings, and easily beats out some cult shows' finales. On September 10 2013 03:06 nighcol wrote: Admittedly it's probably a very bad time but am I understanding something wrong here, looks like fishbattle.net has user stats at the top and the number online (if I am looking at the correct numbers) sits currently at somewhere around 3.5k which is pretty far from 24k+. There's certainly no number anywhere close to that on that bar. SC2 has always had 15k+ _games_ being played when I've happened to log in. Your post was at 3 AM KST. That's one of the most ungodly hours to be playing on Fish as a Korean. SC2 servers are going to be more active on non-KR servers; if the 15k number is during the same time for Korea then I don't know why it's that much, it may be that it counts all open lobbies as a game being played, or games in progess (Blizzard has never told us what the number really means). On September 10 2013 06:23 Grumbels wrote: If Fantasy was going to retire maybe SKT would have bought Jjakji instead of letting him go to mYi. There are no rumors about him afaik, he is potentially a great player and he's still pretty young, and since he's the only terran for SKT he can probably leverage that into a decent salary, so I don't see why he would retire. (outside of personal issues/disliking the game) Bisu had more reasons to retire. Fantasy's older than Flash and is one of the old hands of SKT now, they don't have a new Terran that they've been developing that is at his caliber (JyJ is pretty bad for an SC2 Terran). Edit: On September 10 2013 11:27 Fionn wrote: This is true. Even if SC2 didn't come along, LoL would have overtaken Brood War. Without the Match Fixing Scandal, BW might have still been #1 until 2013-2014, but LoL would have taken over the spot eventually. Yes, BW would have been #1 for a few more years (2010-2014) in that case, but at least many people who were/are BW fans would have not had as much ill-will towards how the transition was handled, given that League is a team-based game that is of a different genre. Also, KeSPA wouldn't have pushed as hard for League in terms of promotions had there been no issue with broadcasting rights for BW or a forced switch since they would have no incentive to get away from a legal minefield. Personally, I'm very much okay with League being OGN's top dog now, because at least Riot is making an earnest effort in keeping the game balanced and enjoyable, and I see players like Grape who used to be in BW having fun in League of their own free will because they picked it up on their own accord. | ||
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Caladbolg
2855 Posts
Anyway, if that fomos article is true (specifically the part about the insider info, since the attendance problems are pretty clear just from watching the streams), then BW might need to be revived if RTS is to survive in Korea. SC2 still going strong elsewhere though, so the SC2 Korean players would probably have to be on teams that will let them travel and compete (i.e. most foreign teams). | ||
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BreakerD
United States159 Posts
On September 10 2013 11:23 Plansix wrote: People have a hard time grasping that some day BW was going to fade out and just want something to lash out at. If it wasn't SC2, it would be LoL. Get your head out of your butt plz. People were not mad that BW was fading away. People were mad that Blizzard forced sc2 into the korean scene. LOL took its natural course. Let people play LOL, if it gets big then it gets big if it dies it dies. The revolutionist whooped flash's butt in the Grand Final's ACE MATCH Awesome match.  | ||
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
On September 10 2013 11:35 Caladbolg wrote: I can't believe that the retirement thread was derailed so badly just because some were trying to defend/bash SC2. Can't we just respect the thread, the memories, the brilliance of a GOAT player candidate who has now left the professional scene? Agreed. It's regrettable that recently these threads have degenerated into game bashing/defending. I think the mods should do something about that, unless, of course, they've just given up. But endless SC2 vs BW achieves nothing of worth. Good luck, Bisu. I'm sorry you are not willing to transition to SC2 but thanks for the great BW memories. All the best. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 10 2013 11:27 Fionn wrote: This is true. Even if SC2 didn't come along, LoL would have overtaken Brood War. Without the Match Fixing Scandal, BW might have still been #1 until 2013-2014, but LoL would have taken over the spot eventually. That is the nature of the beast sadly. Its a bummer Bisu is retiring, but he did not want to learn a new game or was not getting the camera time he wanted. People need to do what is best for them. I am just bummed out that he wasn't able to rise up and crush fools in SC2. It would have been fun to watch. | ||
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Ciryandor
United States3735 Posts
On September 10 2013 11:37 BreakerD wrote: Get your head out of your butt plz. People were not mad that BW was fading away. People were mad that Blizzard forced sc2 into the korean scene. LOL took its natural course. Let people play LOL, if it gets big then it gets big if it dies it dies. The revolutionist whooped flash's butt in the Grand Final's ACE MATCH Awesome match. Don't forget his game before that where he stormed the fuck to victory in a PvP. Classic Bisu harassment to macro win. | ||
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saddaromma
1129 Posts
On September 10 2013 11:41 aZealot wrote: Agreed. It's regrettable that recently these threads have degenerated into game bashing/defending. I think the mods should do something about that, unless, of course, they've just given up. But endless SC2 vs BW achieves nothing of worth. Good luck, Bisu. I'm sorry you are not willing to transition to SC2 but thanks for the great BW memories. All the best. You really think bisu suddenly realized he needs to move on? All I heard from korean Pro's they are dissapointed with the game, not the scene. They obviously had fun playing bw, but now they don't. You can't disrelate it from SC2. And public always speaks the truth btw. | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On September 10 2013 11:44 Plansix wrote: That is the nature of the beast sadly. Its a bummer Bisu is retiring, but he did not want to learn a new game or was not getting the camera time he wanted. People need to do what is best for them. I am just bummed out that he wasn't able to rise up and crush fools in SC2. It would have been fun to watch. Again you choose to ignore the fact that if Bisu truly did not want to learn the new game, he would have retired on the get go on the inception of the pure SC2 PL but he attempted on it anyways. Beside, evidently, our available source by JangBi have stated that Bisu is actually doing not so bad in practice of the new game. He is the kind of players with wins that directly correlate to fan's cheers in which SC2 lacks severely. Thus leading to his underperformance. | ||
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dragoon
United States695 Posts
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
but he did not want to learn a new game or was not getting the camera time he wanted He probably disliked the game | ||
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oDieN[Siege]
United States2905 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 10 2013 12:02 Xiphos wrote: Again you choose to ignore the fact that if Bisu truly did not want to learn the new game, he would have retired on the get go on the inception of the pure SC2 PL but he attempted on it anyways. Beside, evidently, our available source by JangBi have stated that Bisu is actually doing not so bad in practice of the new game. He is the kind of players with wins that directly correlate to fan's cheers in which SC2 lacks severely. Thus leading to his underperformance. That's a pretty good reason to leave. That's why I let my last job, didn't like it because of the legal field we got into. But I get it, it's SC2 and Blizzards fault this all happened. They ruined it and now every time a major BW star retires you will all come out of the wood work to remind everyone. | ||
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
On September 10 2013 11:59 saddaromma wrote: You really think bisu suddenly realized he needs to move on? All I heard from korean Pro's they are dissapointed with the game, not the scene. They obviously had fun playing bw, but now they don't. You can't disrelate it from SC2. And public always speaks the truth btw. No, my point is that it is not relevant. Nor, if you really get down to it, does it necessarily indicate anything. Does Bisu not liking SC2 mean that it is a bad game? No, it does not. It indicates that Bisu does not like SC2. That is all. The problem is when people take this as some kind of confirmation to prattle (and boy is there so much prattle) on about how awful they think SC2 is and how it would all be better if Blizzard did X, Y, Z or a combination of all three. As far as I know, Blizzard is not going to do X, Y, or Z. Nor is there any real indication that these will "fix" the game. Hence. this kind of circular dribble (which is what it is) masking itself as a useful discussion achieves little. It does not belong in a retirement thread. It simply gets people on their favourite soapboxes (yet again) and derails the thread. Also, what Korean pros have you heard from? Personally? On threads? Where? Sources? Are these pros unsuccessful at SC2? Have Rain and Innovation complained? Maybe its because they are successful at the game and doing well? People need to be more critical rather than take comment from players at face value. In any case, an argument that because player X says that SC2 is bad means that you are right in your dislike of SC2 is nothing other than a version of the Argument from Authority. I have no idea what you mean by public always speaks the truth. Nor am I really interested, either. | ||
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juvenal
2448 Posts
On September 10 2013 09:17 Qikz wrote: I seriously hate to tell you this but I think sc2 still would have happened even if the whole esports thing didnt exist. would be a good idea to revive a 10 years old, long since forgotten game aye? Esports is the whole point of sc2, it's extremely cheap storyline only confirms that. | ||
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saddaromma
1129 Posts
On September 10 2013 12:25 aZealot wrote: No, my point is that it is not relevant. Nor, if you really get down to it, does it necessarily indicate anything. Does Bisu not liking SC2 mean that it is a bad game? No, it does not. It indicates that Bisu does not like SC2. That is all. The problem is when people take this as some kind of confirmation to prattle (and boy is there so much prattle) on about how awful they think SC2 is and how it would all be better if Blizzard did X, Y, Z or a combination of all three. As far as I know, Blizzard is not going to do X, Y, or Z. Nor is there any real indication that these will "fix" the game. Hence. this kind of circular dribble (which is what it is) masking itself as a useful discussion achieves little. It does not belong in a retirement thread. It simply gets people on their favourite soapboxes (yet again) and derails the thread. Also, what Korean pros have you heard from? Personally? On threads? Where? Sources? Are these pros unsuccessful at SC2? Have Rain and Innovation complained? Maybe its because they are successful at the game and doing well? People need to be more critical rather than take comment from players at face value. In any case, an argument that because player X says that SC2 is bad means that you are right in your dislike of SC2 is nothing other than a version of the Argument from Authority. I have no idea what you mean by public always speaks the truth. Nor am I really interested, either. Here, I didn't even put much effort to find these, and I'm terribly lazy person: Atn.Cloud - http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=403663 SK MC - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=427728 KT.Flash - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=426074 They don't say the game is bad, and neither do I. But I said "All I heard from korean Pro's they are dissapointed with the game, not the scene." I said "public speaks the truth" on your attempt to backseat moderate and wanting to take actions against people who say sc2 is bad. If it was one or two person I'd agree, but there are too much of them, hence the "crowd". You say Blizzard won't do anything. Ofc they won't, if community remains silent and pretend satissfied. Major people like Incontrol, DJ Wheat, Day 9 need to speak up. And hit Blizzard with a large force to shaken them up. But they dont wanna, cause they like things "the way they are". Eventhough scene is stagnant and slowly losing its fandom to LoL/Dota2/WoT. And rofl. Tastosis casting WoT, could you imagine that back when sc2 was announced. | ||
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On September 10 2013 12:41 juvenal wrote: would be a good idea to revive a 10 years old, long since forgotten game aye? Esports is the whole point of sc2, it's extremely cheap storyline only confirms that. lol, a cheap storyline means the game is gear to multiplayer (which most games are these days). Multi player focus does not equal E-sports. Revive a 10 years old, long forgotten game? I guess Diablo 3 was made with Esports in mind as well? | ||
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