The implications of Acer's barely believable acquisition of INnoVation
by Fionn
Even with all the clues, blatant hints, and evidence pointing to just one answer, you really didn't believe it, did you? Acer.INnoVation?
I mean, who could blame you? The idea that the ace player of the reigning Proleague champions, the champion of the first season of WCS, and the #1~3 player on the planet (depending on who you ask) would move to a foreign team seems absurd. Maybe, just maybe, you would have thought the infamously wealthy Evil Geniuses could make it happen, given their history of majortransactions. But no, INnoVation will not be wearing another blue shirt.
Instead it was team Acer—a team that quietly built itself from a mid-tier foreigner team into an elite StarCraft 2 organization over a year—that pulled off the biggest coup in StarCraft 2 history. Two straight years of Team Liquid and Evil Geniuses playing transfer market chess, making moves to acquire one championship caliber piece after the other, have been interrupted by Acer kicking down the door and flipping over the table.
There had been other signings that briefly distracted fans from the EG-TL's domination of the foreign scene,such as SK's acquisition of MC or Mousesports swooping in to pick up the Duran brothers. While those moves failed to change the status quo, Acer's blockbuster signing of INnoVation has made them the third giant of the foreign scene, both inside and outside Korea.
Even before signing INnoVation, Acer had already made several steps toward becoming a serious player in the foreign scene. Their acquisition of the up-and-coming Scarlett in June of 2012 proved to be a great investment indeed, with the camera-shy Canadian going from being the 2012 champion of the Americas to becoming one of the top two foreigners in the entire post-Stephano world of 2013. Compared to EG's signing of Suppy or Liquid's signing of Snute at around the same time, it only takes a glance to see that Acer has come out the best so far.
Building upon their acquisition of Scarlett, Acer turned its eye toward Korea by signing the former multiple-time GSL champion, MMA, and two-time GSTL winning coach Cella in November of 2012. While the signings were overshadowed by the SlayerS drama and MMA's poor form at the time, it was an opportunistic move that foreshadowed Acer's willingness to spend big should a desirable Korean player come out on the market.
The MMA signing might not be working out quite as well as the one with Scarlett, but he has certainly improved since joining Acer and looks to be on the right track. He may never recover his 2011 form again, but he was still the final Terran standing during a WCS Europe season that was dominated by Protoss, and he was able to make the WCS Season Finals. With a large foreign fan base from his championship days in 2011 and what looks to be a regular spot in the WCS Europe title picture, Acer can be happy with MMA even if he's not the super-ace they hoped he might be. Of course, that's not even an issue anymore.
A lot of people are screaming "WHY, INNOVATION!? WHY? WHY WOULD YOU LEAVE KESPA FOR A FOREIGN TEAM!?"
But in the present state of the StarCraft 2 scene, the real question is why wouldn't INnoVation leave KeSPA?
With STX Soul disbanding, the 'normal' path Innovation could have taken was to be posted (auctioned) to the other KeSPA teams alongside his teammates, worked out a contract with the highest bidder, and continue his career with some minor changes in scenery. Despite the rumored budgetary cuts on KeSPA teams INnoVation would still command a high salary as the ace player of a championship team, probably higher than what Acer could have offered him in guaranteed salary.
But if you think about it carefully, Acer offers more value to INnoVation even if they don't match KeSPA wages.
Remember that time INnoVation won the Korean qualifier for IEM Shanghai, earned himself a fully paid trip to China, and then couldn't go because his team was playing Proleague that weekend? Revival ended up winning that tournament, taking home the first place prize of $10,000. Revival. I'm going to leave it to you to imagine what would have happened if INnoVation played Revival.
With his move to Acer, he can and will more than likely compete in as many foreign tournaments as possible. If you look at the kind of prize money players like TaeJa, HerO, or even PuMa have made by being on well-backed foreign teams, you can tell that being on a top player on a foreign team is just as lucrative as being a KeSPA star.
"Oh, Dreamhack this weekend? I've always wanted a giant, star-shaped, glass trophy. There's a few thousand bucks for winning RSL? And I can play it entirely online, sitting at home? Thanks, here's my bank information."
Will INnoVation's skills prove to be more lasting than MLG and STX?
Also, you can't underestimate the value of WCS region flexibility. While Innovation is virtually assured a place at this year's Blizzcon finals after his great performances in WCS Season 1, he already had a taste of how hard it is to stay on top of the scene after in a 0 - 4 upset against Maru this season's WCS KR semi-finals. While his pride and skill level might warrant him picking Korea again in the 2014 season of WCS, it's never too soon to start thinking about what if's.
What if he has an extremely unlucky run next season and finds himself in Code A/Challenger League to start 2014? What if leaving the KeSPA environment is a detriment to his skill (more on that below) and he discovers that he's less dominant a player? He can't just let the that $20,000 Premier League first place prize go. With Acer opening up a team house in Germany, he could go over, chill with MMA and Cella, and play in the weakest WCS Europe region. And if he wanted to play in WCS America instead for whatever reason, I'm sure Acer would have no problem sending him for the live portion of the tournament.
And finally, instead of living in a strict, Proleague-centered system that limits his options, he can now live a free lifestyle that lets him practice and compete as he chooses. Like most Korean pros, INnoVation declined to talk about the financial incentives, but he did make it very explicit that the free practice environment of the Axiom-Acer house played a big part in his decision. INnoVation said that his skill level improved the most when STX Soul switched to a less strict training environment, and he can expect the same at the Axiom-Acer house. However, you never really know how a player will adapt to a specific environment, until you see it play out.
******
Two years ago, you could have made the argument that Innovation was making a gigantic mistake. Back then, GSL was holding almost a dozen tournaments a year, with $50,000 going to the winner. Now, if you win WCS Korea—the toughest out of the three regions—you make the same amount of money as the person who won WCS America or Europe. Back then, American tournaments like IPL and MLG were willing to lavish top Koreans with flights and hotels to have them at their events. Now, only a select few Koreans on foreign teams have the privilege of competing in international tournaments.
While this is a great move for both Acer and Innovation, Innovation must still deliver. Unlike Jaedong or MC, Innovation is not a player that gets by on personality or legacy. His 'niche,' so to speak, is being the best player in the world. If his aura of being an unstoppable, unfeeling, killing-machine is dispelled, he becomes generic Korean Terran #251. Wherever he plays in 2014, Innovation is a player that needs to win tournaments to be interesting.
However this plays out in the end, Acer will have made itself known to the rest of the world. Not just to Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid for butting into their two-man game, but to the proud organization known as KeSPA that must now live with the fact that their best players are more than happy to leave them. With contracts ending and players considering their future, KeSPA must seriously rethink their position in the SC2 world.
Nice read! I have to admit I was honestly surprised when it was first announced/suggested, but now it does start to make more sense. I wish him and Acer all the best and I'm excited to see where it'll go from here!
That was very well written. I opened the thread thinking it would be another q.q end-of-the-world post and was happily surprised. However, doesn't the article miss the fact that Innovation's form recently is a bit shaky? Maybe it's just one of the usual things that happen to players as months pass and he will rebound, but it does seem like an important part of the Innovation story.
The raft of computer monitor sponsors that have been pouring into e-sports over the past few years is really nice. Team Acer, like the billion little tourneys with other monitor company's labels (this being an Acer thread, I'll be polite), is one of the highlights of that charge.
Also, I like most of their players! Acer fighting!
I think his mechanics alone are what make him so interesting, at least in my opinion. Watching his replays gives me a head-ache, he's so fast and efficient T_T
Much as I am looking forward to one day reading the coveted great article of Fionn, I really hope there's a big Stephano write up sometime this year. Maybe even a final edit.
Anyways back on track, this was a solid article, gets me even more hyped for the days and weeks to come.
What you wrote about Innovation's niche being the best player in the world is so true. I really hope that one of the biggest gains Innovation sees in his move to Acer is a jump in his opportunity to make himself an image to combat that unfeeling, silent-but-deadly terminator we know now. It would be such a bummer if Acer had Scarlett and Innovation always competing for most awkward interviews at events. The scene needs them to break out and be personalities.
All I want is Innovation to tell us all a joke. On stream, in an interview, something.
"Oh, Dreamhack this weekend? I've always wanted a giant, star-shaped, glass trophy. There's a few thousand bucks for winning RSL? And I can play it entirely online, sitting at home? Thanks, here's my bank information." lmao :D good write-up <3
yo, revival is pretty good, I think your suggestion that revival holding his own against innovation was a little rude. would anyone put him as the favorite? no way. but is revival damn good? yeah
"Oh, Dreamhack this weekend? I've always wanted a giant, star-shaped, glass trophy. There's a few thousand bucks for winning RSL? And I can play it entirely online, sitting at home? Thanks, here's my bank information."
Revival ended up winning that tournament, taking home the first place prize of $10,000. Revival. I'm going to leave it to you to imagine what would have happened if INnoVation played Revival.
To be fair, if you see Revival stream, he is absurdly good in his own right. Sure INoVation would have most likely won, but maybe not super one-sidedly. (Considering Revival DID take out Polt in that same tournament)
Revival ended up winning that tournament, taking home the first place prize of $10,000. Revival. I'm going to leave it to you to imagine what would have happened if INnoVation played Revival.
To be fair, if you see Revival stream, he is absurdly good in his own right. Sure INoVation would have most likely won, but maybe not super one-sidedly. (Considering Revival DID take out Polt in that same tournament)
Revival would have won anyway ! And I am not some pouty Revival fan girl ... well I am but anyway !
On September 03 2013 06:57 mikumegurine wrote: was wondering
is INnoVation going to switch to WCS NA as soon as possible?
NA is as hard as KR currently, maybe even harder. So if he wants easy mode he will go EU. Might even be a good idea to be setup for next season. But imo it is fine to stay in Korea, with half of the Code S mainstays being in the NA region.
On September 03 2013 06:57 mikumegurine wrote: was wondering
is INnoVation going to switch to WCS NA as soon as possible?
NA is as hard as KR currently, maybe even harder. So if he wants easy mode he will go EU. Might even be a good idea to be setup for next season. But imo it is fine to stay in Korea, with half of the Code S mainstays being in the NA region.
On September 03 2013 07:06 FeyFey wrote: Revival would have won anyway ! And I am not some pouty Revival fan girl ... well I am but anyway !
On September 03 2013 06:57 mikumegurine wrote: was wondering
is INnoVation going to switch to WCS NA as soon as possible?
NA is as hard as KR currently, maybe even harder. So if he wants easy mode he will go EU. Might even be a good idea to be setup for next season. But imo it is fine to stay in Korea, with half of the Code S mainstays being in the NA region.
On September 03 2013 07:06 FeyFey wrote: Revival would have won anyway ! And I am not some pouty Revival fan girl ... well I am but anyway !
On September 03 2013 06:57 mikumegurine wrote: was wondering
is INnoVation going to switch to WCS NA as soon as possible?
NA is as hard as KR currently, maybe even harder. So if he wants easy mode he will go EU. Might even be a good idea to be setup for next season. But imo it is fine to stay in Korea, with half of the Code S mainstays being in the NA region.
Really? What makes you believe that?
Look at the top 8 in WCS Season 2 Finals.
That just means AM has a few players that can compete at the very top, not that AM as a whole is better.
It's definitely not half Code S regulars in premier.
Revival ended up winning that tournament, taking home the first place prize of $10,000. Revival. I'm going to leave it to you to imagine what would have happened if INnoVation played Revival.
To be fair, if you see Revival stream, he is absurdly good in his own right. Sure INoVation would have most likely won, but maybe not super one-sidedly. (Considering Revival DID take out Polt in that same tournament)
99% sure Innovation vs Revival would be one-sided
I know INoVation would have won. I feel like Revival is good enough to at least take a map though. I feel like some people maybe haven't seen him play, so it's understandable they wouldn't know that he's actually really good. (Just don't like seeing that level of disrespect of a player's skill level)
Anyway, still an amazing signing for Acer. They are gonna be SO dangerous in Team Leagues now.
On September 03 2013 07:06 FeyFey wrote: Revival would have won anyway ! And I am not some pouty Revival fan girl ... well I am but anyway !
On September 03 2013 06:57 mikumegurine wrote: was wondering
is INnoVation going to switch to WCS NA as soon as possible?
NA is as hard as KR currently, maybe even harder. So if he wants easy mode he will go EU. Might even be a good idea to be setup for next season. But imo it is fine to stay in Korea, with half of the Code S mainstays being in the NA region.
Really? What makes you believe that?
Look at the top 8 in WCS Season 2 Finals.
That just means AM has a few players that can compete at the very top, not that AM as a whole is better.
It's definitely not half Code S regulars in premier.
I'm pretty sure blizzard will be changing up WCS for 2014. So we will have to wait to Blizzcon to see if they address the "koreans taking our jobs" complaints then we will know if switching regions will be so feasible.
On September 03 2013 07:06 FeyFey wrote: Revival would have won anyway ! And I am not some pouty Revival fan girl ... well I am but anyway !
On September 03 2013 06:57 mikumegurine wrote: was wondering
is INnoVation going to switch to WCS NA as soon as possible?
NA is as hard as KR currently, maybe even harder. So if he wants easy mode he will go EU. Might even be a good idea to be setup for next season. But imo it is fine to stay in Korea, with half of the Code S mainstays being in the NA region.
Really? What makes you believe that?
Look at the top 8 in WCS Season 2 Finals.
America is extremely top heavy. There are 6 or 7 players that are code S level, but once you get past them, talent level drops pretty fast. Over half of NA Premiere would not be Code A in KR.
Also: "half of the Code S mainstays being in the NA region'" ...? What are you on? cause I want some. Formerly Code S players actually in AM: Recent: Taeja, Polt, Ryung, Nestea, Huk Over a Year Ago: HerO, Oz, Violet, Alicia, aLive ...and thats it. The only "mainstays" there are Polt and Taeja and maybe Ryung. Thats a far cry from "half"
Anyone think Liquid will sign one of the now many available great players? I know their bank account isnt as massive as EG's, but their roster has seemed pretty stretched in recent team leagues. They do only have 6 active players, and in my opinion, they have a great opportunity right now. (this is kinda working off the assumption that Azubu,ex-Azubu and Soul players can currently be poached pretty easily)
NA is as hard as KR currently, maybe even harder. So if he wants easy mode he will go EU. Might even be a good idea to be setup for next season. But imo it is fine to stay in Korea, with half of the Code S mainstays being in the NA region.
i have to disagree. There are good players in NA no doubt, but wcs korea round of 32 is much, much harder than the wcs NA round of 32, and i would say the same holds true for the round of 16 as well.
On September 03 2013 08:19 Sated wrote: This article is incredibly disrespectful towards the level of play you find at tournaments like Dreamhack. You do remember what happened at the WCS finals, right..?
He was beaten by a really good player? When has Innovation not been top tier. He would be a favorite at Dreamhack, for sure.
On September 03 2013 08:19 Sated wrote: This article is incredibly disrespectful towards the level of play you find at tournaments like Dreamhack. You do remember what happened at the WCS finals, right..?
I do. Bomber, a terran from WCS korea, swept the WCS NA runner up.
On September 03 2013 06:52 travis wrote: yo, revival is pretty good, I think your suggestion that revival holding his own against innovation was a little rude. would anyone put him as the favorite? no way. but is revival damn good? yeah
That's what I was thinking also. Sure Innovation is better, but its almost saying now that revival is some trash tier player.
On September 03 2013 08:19 Sated wrote: This article is incredibly disrespectful towards the level of play you find at tournaments like Dreamhack. You do remember what happened at the WCS finals, right..?
I agree. It is incredibly disrespectful and I lost all respect.
But no, it'll be interesting to see if Kespa changes at all cuz their players are going to foreign teams. Didn't they (Kespa) already allow everyone to join their league or something? They might already be more open.
On September 03 2013 06:52 travis wrote: yo, revival is pretty good, I think your suggestion that revival holding his own against innovation was a little rude. would anyone put him as the favorite? no way. but is revival damn good? yeah
That's what I was thinking also. Sure Innovation is better, but its almost saying now that revival is some trash tier player.
Thank you, this was my entire point in my posts as well.
On September 03 2013 08:19 Sated wrote: This article is incredibly disrespectful towards the level of play you find at tournaments like Dreamhack. You do remember what happened at the WCS finals, right..?
I agree. It is incredibly disrespectful and I lost all respect.
But no, it'll be interesting to see if Kespa changes at all cuz their players are going to foreign teams. Didn't they (Kespa) already allow everyone to join their league or something? They might already be more open.
Join their league? As in SPL? No, they didn't. They allowed people to join KeSPA.
And how many players joined foreign teams as a transfer such as INnoVation? 1? Just INnoVation. I'm pretty sure there are more KeSPA players than just one. I'm pretty sure.
Also, the wording may have made it seem disrespectful, but it was just being honest.
kespa is really going to have to start sending players to foreign tournaments or this is going to be something of a common occurrence. flash ain't going anyway (except maybe to lol...), but just about anyone else might be fair game.
On September 03 2013 07:06 FeyFey wrote: Revival would have won anyway ! And I am not some pouty Revival fan girl ... well I am but anyway !
On September 03 2013 06:57 mikumegurine wrote: was wondering
is INnoVation going to switch to WCS NA as soon as possible?
NA is as hard as KR currently, maybe even harder. So if he wants easy mode he will go EU. Might even be a good idea to be setup for next season. But imo it is fine to stay in Korea, with half of the Code S mainstays being in the NA region.
Really? What makes you believe that?
Look at the top 8 in WCS Season 2 Finals.
America is extremely top heavy. There are 6 or 7 players that are code S level, but once you get past them, talent level drops pretty fast. Over half of NA Premiere would not be Code A in KR.
Also: "half of the Code S mainstays being in the NA region'" ...? What are you on? cause I want some. Formerly Code S players actually in AM: Recent: Taeja, Polt, Ryung, Nestea, Huk Over a Year Ago: HerO, Oz, Violet, Alicia, aLive ...and thats it. The only "mainstays" there are Polt and Taeja and maybe Ryung. Thats a far cry from "half"
I don't think you pay much attention to Code S... "mainstay" means important to the tournament, and Hero was Ro4 and Ro8, same as Taeja, while Oz was Ro4 at one point. Even alive made Ro4.
On September 03 2013 08:19 Sated wrote: This article is incredibly disrespectful towards the level of play you find at tournaments like Dreamhack. You do remember what happened at the WCS finals, right..?
I agree. It is incredibly disrespectful and I lost all respect.
But no, it'll be interesting to see if Kespa changes at all cuz their players are going to foreign teams. Didn't they (Kespa) already allow everyone to join their league or something? They might already be more open.
Isn't the best player in the world a favorite to win every tournament he enters?
Also, the wording may have made it seem disrespectful, but it was just being honest.
The wording made it sound like Revival is some garbage player, which he isn't. Yes, we all know INoVation would win. No, it probably wouldn't be the roflstomp that the wording makes it sound like. That's why it is disrespectful.
NA is as hard as KR currently, maybe even harder. So if he wants easy mode he will go EU. Might even be a good idea to be setup for next season. But imo it is fine to stay in Korea, with half of the Code S mainstays being in the NA region.
i have to disagree. There are good players in NA no doubt, but wcs korea round of 32 is much, much harder than the wcs NA round of 32, and i would say the same holds true for the round of 16 as well.
Yeah I agree, NA has some good players due to Korean migration. But to say NA is as hard or harder than KR right now is absolutely absurd. Maybe if everyone else from KR started to move to NA, but until then no way in hell.
On September 03 2013 07:06 FeyFey wrote: Revival would have won anyway ! And I am not some pouty Revival fan girl ... well I am but anyway !
On September 03 2013 06:57 mikumegurine wrote: was wondering
is INnoVation going to switch to WCS NA as soon as possible?
NA is as hard as KR currently, maybe even harder. So if he wants easy mode he will go EU. Might even be a good idea to be setup for next season. But imo it is fine to stay in Korea, with half of the Code S mainstays being in the NA region.
Really? What makes you believe that?
Look at the top 8 in WCS Season 2 Finals.
America is extremely top heavy. There are 6 or 7 players that are code S level, but once you get past them, talent level drops pretty fast. Over half of NA Premiere would not be Code A in KR.
Also: "half of the Code S mainstays being in the NA region'" ...? What are you on? cause I want some. Formerly Code S players actually in AM: Recent: Taeja, Polt, Ryung, Nestea, Huk Over a Year Ago: HerO, Oz, Violet, Alicia, aLive ...and thats it. The only "mainstays" there are Polt and Taeja and maybe Ryung. Thats a far cry from "half"
I don't think you pay much attention to Code S... "mainstay" means important to the tournament, and Hero was Ro4 and Ro8, same as Taeja, while Oz was Ro4 at one point. Even alive made Ro4.
doesn't 'mainstay' imply consistency? alive and hero had one deep run each and fell out of code s pretty quick, oz and ryung had a few code s seasons but then fell to code b. the only real consistent players listed were taeja and nestea.
note: i got my information by skimming liquipedia. if i'm wrong about these guys' history, lemme know.
On September 03 2013 07:06 FeyFey wrote: Revival would have won anyway ! And I am not some pouty Revival fan girl ... well I am but anyway !
On September 03 2013 06:57 mikumegurine wrote: was wondering
is INnoVation going to switch to WCS NA as soon as possible?
NA is as hard as KR currently, maybe even harder. So if he wants easy mode he will go EU. Might even be a good idea to be setup for next season. But imo it is fine to stay in Korea, with half of the Code S mainstays being in the NA region.
Really? What makes you believe that?
Look at the top 8 in WCS Season 2 Finals.
America is extremely top heavy. There are 6 or 7 players that are code S level, but once you get past them, talent level drops pretty fast. Over half of NA Premiere would not be Code A in KR.
Also: "half of the Code S mainstays being in the NA region'" ...? What are you on? cause I want some. Formerly Code S players actually in AM: Recent: Taeja, Polt, Ryung, Nestea, Huk Over a Year Ago: HerO, Oz, Violet, Alicia, aLive ...and thats it. The only "mainstays" there are Polt and Taeja and maybe Ryung. Thats a far cry from "half"
I don't think you pay much attention to Code S... "mainstay" means important to the tournament, and Hero was Ro4 and Ro8, same as Taeja, while Oz was Ro4 at one point. Even alive made Ro4.
You serious man? HerO, aLive, and Oz might have gone deep before, but if we havent seen them in Code S for over a year so they are hardly mainstays. Mvp, Drg, Parting, Gumiho,Curious, Bomber, Life, Soulkey, Symbol, Innovation, Losira, Leenock, Squirtle, Supernova, MKP, Creator; these guys are all more "mainstay" then Hero, aLive or Oz. Read the initial quote again: "But imo it is fine to stay in Korea, with half of the Code S mainstays being in the NA region." Yes there are a couple Code S mainstay in NA, but NOwhere near half (even if you included HerO, Oz, and aLive). And btw I watch nearly every group of Code S, including group selection, so I know what Im talking about.
On September 03 2013 06:57 mikumegurine wrote: was wondering
is INnoVation going to switch to WCS NA as soon as possible?
NA is as hard as KR currently, maybe even harder. So if he wants easy mode he will go EU. Might even be a good idea to be setup for next season. But imo it is fine to stay in Korea, with half of the Code S mainstays being in the NA region.
Revival hasn't shown ZvT that is on Soulkey's level and Soulkey can't even beat Innovation at this time.
Incorrect on both counts.
WCS KR has 32 Code S level players while NA only has 9 or less.
Also, the wording may have made it seem disrespectful, but it was just being honest.
The wording made it sound like Revival is some garbage player, which he isn't. Yes, we all know INoVation would win. No, it probably wouldn't be the roflstomp that the wording makes it sound like. That's why it is disrespectful.
Actually, Revival has shown that his TvZ is not at the level of the top KR zergs. Therefore, Innovation would roflstomp him in macro games, because that's what he does. /debate.
I really don't get what all the fuss is about, Innovation > Revival isn't very hard to grasp logically I mean, we are talking about the same Revival that got beat by Happy, right?
I got to say this was a smart decision Inno made and it true that more top tier korean players should be looking for more foreign teams rather then stay in korean sc2 scene, there just so much more advantages to be gained by being in foreign teams. Better chances, more sponsors, more tournaments, streaming is more profitable out korea plus although it really isn't hugh but the chance to see different places since alot of foreign teams have gotten their team houses up and running being able to live in a new country/city should be cool to them.Plus for younger top tier players I know a few teams would help set them up going to school outside korea so it also kinda a nice incentive for those who want to play sc2 and finish school at the same time.
Smart move by Innovation. With Soul disbanding and only few players finding a new home with another kespa team, pro league and kespa seem as unsafe a bet as ever. Lets see if some other stars will leave as well.
Also, the wording may have made it seem disrespectful, but it was just being honest.
The wording made it sound like Revival is some garbage player, which he isn't. Yes, we all know INoVation would win. No, it probably wouldn't be the roflstomp that the wording makes it sound like. That's why it is disrespectful.
Why are you so mad? It was a fair point, fairly made.
(maybe) INno playing next Homestory Cup?? Would be soooooooooo sick! first kespa sc2 player EVER attending the tournament (if i'm not mistaken). Lets see what the future brings :D
On September 03 2013 06:57 mikumegurine wrote: was wondering
is INnoVation going to switch to WCS NA as soon as possible?
NA is as hard as KR currently, maybe even harder. So if he wants easy mode he will go EU. Might even be a good idea to be setup for next season. But imo it is fine to stay in Korea, with half of the Code S mainstays being in the NA region.
On September 03 2013 07:06 FeyFey wrote: Revival would have won anyway ! And I am not some pouty Revival fan girl ... well I am but anyway !
On September 03 2013 06:57 mikumegurine wrote: was wondering
is INnoVation going to switch to WCS NA as soon as possible?
NA is as hard as KR currently, maybe even harder. So if he wants easy mode he will go EU. Might even be a good idea to be setup for next season. But imo it is fine to stay in Korea, with half of the Code S mainstays being in the NA region.
really?
Well maybe if you're unlucky enough to get matched up against Jaedong.
On September 03 2013 07:06 FeyFey wrote: Revival would have won anyway ! And I am not some pouty Revival fan girl ... well I am but anyway !
On September 03 2013 06:57 mikumegurine wrote: was wondering
is INnoVation going to switch to WCS NA as soon as possible?
NA is as hard as KR currently, maybe even harder. So if he wants easy mode he will go EU. Might even be a good idea to be setup for next season. But imo it is fine to stay in Korea, with half of the Code S mainstays being in the NA region.
really?
the overall skill level ofc not but if you look at ro8 and onwards yes. You seem to have forgotten who rolled over rain in season finals. Btw referring to rsvival as some garbage player is utter bullshit. Kid won iem not long ago
Well-written article that casts a bit of insight into a decision that seemed questionable. Team Acer has been doing very well for itself as of late (the past year = late?).
I think this is entirely to the benefit of Scarlett, of all people. The ZvT practice is going to be fantastic practice.
On September 03 2013 17:48 ItanoCircus wrote: Well-written article that casts a bit of insight into a decision that seemed questionable. Team Acer has been doing very well for itself as of late (the past year = late?).
I think this is entirely to the benefit of Scarlett, of all people. The ZvT practice is going to be fantastic practice.
On September 03 2013 07:06 FeyFey wrote: Revival would have won anyway ! And I am not some pouty Revival fan girl ... well I am but anyway !
On September 03 2013 06:57 mikumegurine wrote: was wondering
is INnoVation going to switch to WCS NA as soon as possible?
NA is as hard as KR currently, maybe even harder. So if he wants easy mode he will go EU. Might even be a good idea to be setup for next season. But imo it is fine to stay in Korea, with half of the Code S mainstays being in the NA region.
really?
the overall skill level ofc not but if you look at ro8 and onwards yes. You seem to have forgotten who rolled over rain in season finals. Btw referring to rsvival as some garbage player is utter bullshit. Kid won iem not long ago
that is not true. this finals the na players got far, but it was a korean player who won and the last season we had 3 players fomr wcs korea in the ro4 (sos, soulkey, innovation - i don't remember who the last guy was).
On September 03 2013 07:06 FeyFey wrote: Revival would have won anyway ! And I am not some pouty Revival fan girl ... well I am but anyway !
On September 03 2013 06:57 mikumegurine wrote: was wondering
is INnoVation going to switch to WCS NA as soon as possible?
NA is as hard as KR currently, maybe even harder. So if he wants easy mode he will go EU. Might even be a good idea to be setup for next season. But imo it is fine to stay in Korea, with half of the Code S mainstays being in the NA region.
really?
the overall skill level ofc not but if you look at ro8 and onwards yes. You seem to have forgotten who rolled over rain in season finals. Btw referring to rsvival as some garbage player is utter bullshit. Kid won iem not long ago
I disagree. Jaedong played only protoss until being slaughtered by Bomber. None of the top protoss have good records against top Zergs. So Jaedong's run isn't as impressive as people make it out to be. Many other WCS KR terrans can play vZ as well as Bomber. Jaedong wouldn't last long in WCS KR.
Taeja can definitely get to ro8 or higher in WCS KR. However his win over Rain wasn't that amazing because of Rain's lackluster play. Compare Rain of WCS KR vs Bomber and then compare that to what Taeja faced. Big difference.
Scarlett is in the same boat as Jaedong except Protoss will be Scarlett's weak point.
aLive played great at the finals. He definitely stepped up his level for the finals. If he is consistently this good then he is definitely code s level.
WCS KR is still harder than WCS AM. The qualifiers are harder, the challenger league is harder, and etc. Rain and Maru just played terribly in comparison to WCS KR. However Maru has never been known for his TvZ, so his loss to Scarlett wass no shock to me.
Great article, exactly my thoughts. I wish he stayed in a KeSPA team but it really makes more sense for him to join any foreign team in the current state of SC2.
On September 03 2013 07:06 FeyFey wrote: Revival would have won anyway ! And I am not some pouty Revival fan girl ... well I am but anyway !
On September 03 2013 06:57 mikumegurine wrote: was wondering
is INnoVation going to switch to WCS NA as soon as possible?
NA is as hard as KR currently, maybe even harder. So if he wants easy mode he will go EU. Might even be a good idea to be setup for next season. But imo it is fine to stay in Korea, with half of the Code S mainstays being in the NA region.
really?
the overall skill level ofc not but if you look at ro8 and onwards yes. You seem to have forgotten who rolled over rain in season finals. Btw referring to rsvival as some garbage player is utter bullshit. Kid won iem not long ago
I disagree. Jaedong played only protoss until being slaughtered by Bomber. None of the top protoss have good records against top Zergs. So Jaedong's run isn't as impressive as people make it out to be. Many other WCS KR terrans can play vZ as well as Bomber. Jaedong wouldn't last long in WCS KR.
Taeja can definitely get to ro8 or higher in WCS KR. However his win over Rain wasn't that amazing because of Rain's lackluster play. Compare Rain of WCS KR vs Bomber and then compare that to what Taeja faced. Big difference.
Scarlett is in the same boat as Jaedong except Protoss will be Scarlett's weak point.
aLive played great at the finals. He definitely stepped up his level for the finals. If he is consistently this good then he is definitely code s level.
WCS KR is still harder than WCS AM. The qualifiers are harder, the challenger league is harder, and etc. Rain and Maru just played terribly in comparison to WCS KR. However Maru has never been known for his TvZ, so his loss to Scarlett wass no shock to me.
On September 03 2013 07:06 FeyFey wrote: Revival would have won anyway ! And I am not some pouty Revival fan girl ... well I am but anyway !
On September 03 2013 06:57 mikumegurine wrote: was wondering
is INnoVation going to switch to WCS NA as soon as possible?
NA is as hard as KR currently, maybe even harder. So if he wants easy mode he will go EU. Might even be a good idea to be setup for next season. But imo it is fine to stay in Korea, with half of the Code S mainstays being in the NA region.
really?
the overall skill level ofc not but if you look at ro8 and onwards yes. You seem to have forgotten who rolled over rain in season finals. Btw referring to rsvival as some garbage player is utter bullshit. Kid won iem not long ago
I disagree. Jaedong played only protoss until being slaughtered by Bomber. None of the top protoss have good records against top Zergs. So Jaedong's run isn't as impressive as people make it out to be. Many other WCS KR terrans can play vZ as well as Bomber. Jaedong wouldn't last long in WCS KR.
Taeja can definitely get to ro8 or higher in WCS KR. However his win over Rain wasn't that amazing because of Rain's lackluster play. Compare Rain of WCS KR vs Bomber and then compare that to what Taeja faced. Big difference.
Scarlett is in the same boat as Jaedong except Protoss will be Scarlett's weak point.
aLive played great at the finals. He definitely stepped up his level for the finals. If he is consistently this good then he is definitely code s level.
WCS KR is still harder than WCS AM. The qualifiers are harder, the challenger league is harder, and etc. Rain and Maru just played terribly in comparison to WCS KR. However Maru has never been known for his TvZ, so his loss to Scarlett wass no shock to me.
1. Youre forgetting the fact that the only terran jaedong faced was Bomber, who had made it to ro4 in WCS KR. So basically what youre saying is that any korean terran in premier league can play as good as Bomber? So they all have Bomber's level of macro? very funny
2. Qualifiers aren't harder in WCS korea. With a lot of koreans switching to eu and am, there are currently a lot of empty slots in qualifiers so you can qualify by only winning against 2~3 opponents whereas you basically have to beat tons of opponents in eu and am qualifiers. And guess what? these players are mostly koreans as well!
3. I love how you defend WCS KR players by saying that they didn't play their best in season finals and belittle Taeja's amazing play against Rain. Go watch the series he played on Whirlwind. I have never seen any other terran who plays Ghost-Viking heavy style as perfectly as Taeja did. Sniping observers left n right, sniping high templars coming from all different angles, emping bunch of templars before engaging, constantly denying Rain's 4th base by nuking, reparing vikings while defending zealot harassment. Name 3 players who can pull this shit, you cant because there arent any. Its a type of play only Taeja can do.
On September 03 2013 07:06 FeyFey wrote: Revival would have won anyway ! And I am not some pouty Revival fan girl ... well I am but anyway !
On September 03 2013 06:57 mikumegurine wrote: was wondering
is INnoVation going to switch to WCS NA as soon as possible?
NA is as hard as KR currently, maybe even harder. So if he wants easy mode he will go EU. Might even be a good idea to be setup for next season. But imo it is fine to stay in Korea, with half of the Code S mainstays being in the NA region.
really?
the overall skill level ofc not but if you look at ro8 and onwards yes. You seem to have forgotten who rolled over rain in season finals. Btw referring to rsvival as some garbage player is utter bullshit. Kid won iem not long ago
that is not true. this finals the na players got far, but it was a korean player who won and the last season we had 3 players fomr wcs korea in the ro4 (sos, soulkey, innovation - i don't remember who the last guy was).
What blasphemy is this to not remember that it was Mvp?
Anyways yeah, even at the top even KR is better. Last two season final winners were KR as well.
Was I the only one that felt like there was a fair bit of arrogance to this post? As the saying goes - "Pride comes before fall", so for Acer's and Innovation's sake I hope they can live up to all hype they have promised here. Following Innovation's exit from WCS I couldn't help but wonder if he's one of those players that doesn't handle the stress of travelling as well as others?
More than anything I hope that Innovation on team Acer might have a positive influence on MMA, which to my surprise was not mentioned in this article.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Scarlett taking a break for a while? So doesn't that Innovation at least in some part is there to fill the void that Scarlett will leave behind?
Anyhow, Good luck and Congrats to both Acer and Innovation.
Reading this article , for some reason my attention turned to Jaedong & MC.
Jaedong is sad having to face Terran in the finals. . 2times I believe? Vs Polt Vs Bomber.. I used to not being fan of Jaedong, because I am fan of Flash, & Jaedong is Flash biggest rival.
Jaedong, Strong personality & Legacy keke in my mind. I always feel him as the Tyrant. and his .gif image of angry Jaedong is so deep in my mind. And his performance is really good too, so he has Skill, Personality, Legacy Shit, I need to sign up his fanclub.
MC, the voice of people~ I just read his thoughts about TvZ, he voice it out for us (Or for me only).
They dont fall back on personalities and legacy. They are good , professional players.
On September 03 2013 21:33 c0ldfusion wrote: If he wants to attend as many foreign tournaments as possible, EG or Liquid would probably have been a better choice.
I do not think he really wants to attend as many foreign tournaments as possible. Though i bet we may see him on some random dreamhack and IEM.
On September 03 2013 21:33 c0ldfusion wrote: If he wants to attend as many foreign tournaments as possible, EG or Liquid would probably have been a better choice.
On September 04 2013 05:18 RusHXceL wrote: I hope Inno gets to stream ^^ cant wait
It's not like Acer players like to stream, huh. He may stream if he will get to be in Acer's house in Germany but i do not think it is happening any time soon.
On September 03 2013 07:06 FeyFey wrote: Revival would have won anyway ! And I am not some pouty Revival fan girl ... well I am but anyway !
On September 03 2013 06:57 mikumegurine wrote: was wondering
is INnoVation going to switch to WCS NA as soon as possible?
NA is as hard as KR currently, maybe even harder. So if he wants easy mode he will go EU. Might even be a good idea to be setup for next season. But imo it is fine to stay in Korea, with half of the Code S mainstays being in the NA region.
really?
the overall skill level ofc not but if you look at ro8 and onwards yes. You seem to have forgotten who rolled over rain in season finals. Btw referring to rsvival as some garbage player is utter bullshit. Kid won iem not long ago
that is not true. this finals the na players got far, but it was a korean player who won and the last season we had 3 players fomr wcs korea in the ro4 (sos, soulkey, innovation - i don't remember who the last guy was).
Hopefully innovation keeps practicing with the best or his skill is going to go south. I think it takes away some of the mystique when one of the best players comes over here and you see them constantly you start to get sick of seeing them.
yeeee I really hope Innovation continues his streak of wins. It's pretty cool to see someone as dominate as he is. But of course I secretly hope for Flash to take up his former glory
On September 03 2013 07:06 FeyFey wrote: Revival would have won anyway ! And I am not some pouty Revival fan girl ... well I am but anyway !
On September 03 2013 06:57 mikumegurine wrote: was wondering
is INnoVation going to switch to WCS NA as soon as possible?
NA is as hard as KR currently, maybe even harder. So if he wants easy mode he will go EU. Might even be a good idea to be setup for next season. But imo it is fine to stay in Korea, with half of the Code S mainstays being in the NA region.
really?
the overall skill level ofc not but if you look at ro8 and onwards yes. You seem to have forgotten who rolled over rain in season finals. Btw referring to rsvival as some garbage player is utter bullshit. Kid won iem not long ago
that is not true. this finals the na players got far, but it was a korean player who won and the last season we had 3 players fomr wcs korea in the ro4 (sos, soulkey, innovation - i don't remember who the last guy was).
And Taeja was one game away from making it WCS NA finals, which would then imply WCS KR = ez mode. Just so you realize how silly your argument was.
On September 03 2013 07:06 FeyFey wrote: Revival would have won anyway ! And I am not some pouty Revival fan girl ... well I am but anyway !
On September 03 2013 06:57 mikumegurine wrote: was wondering
is INnoVation going to switch to WCS NA as soon as possible?
NA is as hard as KR currently, maybe even harder. So if he wants easy mode he will go EU. Might even be a good idea to be setup for next season. But imo it is fine to stay in Korea, with half of the Code S mainstays being in the NA region.
really?
the overall skill level ofc not but if you look at ro8 and onwards yes. You seem to have forgotten who rolled over rain in season finals. Btw referring to rsvival as some garbage player is utter bullshit. Kid won iem not long ago
I disagree. Jaedong played only protoss until being slaughtered by Bomber. None of the top protoss have good records against top Zergs. So Jaedong's run isn't as impressive as people make it out to be. Many other WCS KR terrans can play vZ as well as Bomber. Jaedong wouldn't last long in WCS KR.
Taeja can definitely get to ro8 or higher in WCS KR. However his win over Rain wasn't that amazing because of Rain's lackluster play. Compare Rain of WCS KR vs Bomber and then compare that to what Taeja faced. Big difference.
Scarlett is in the same boat as Jaedong except Protoss will be Scarlett's weak point.
aLive played great at the finals. He definitely stepped up his level for the finals. If he is consistently this good then he is definitely code s level.
WCS KR is still harder than WCS AM. The qualifiers are harder, the challenger league is harder, and etc. Rain and Maru just played terribly in comparison to WCS KR. However Maru has never been known for his TvZ, so his loss to Scarlett wass no shock to me.
The usual KR players lose because jetlag, choke, bad form argument. How mature!
On September 03 2013 06:57 mikumegurine wrote: was wondering
is INnoVation going to switch to WCS NA as soon as possible?
NA is as hard as KR currently, maybe even harder. So if he wants easy mode he will go EU. Might even be a good idea to be setup for next season. But imo it is fine to stay in Korea, with half of the Code S mainstays being in the NA region.
On September 03 2013 11:18 antigravity wrote: How can you even compare Acer to EG or Liquid...
Acer still DOES NOT HAVE A SINGLE PROTOSS!!
Acer players have to approve a new player joining, so with me and Nerchio on the team, getting a protoss player seems extremely unlikely :D
That's ridiculous, there are a lot of good protoss with a nice mindset, and giving your veto only because of his race is quite stupid. It's even bad for acer.
On September 03 2013 11:18 antigravity wrote: How can you even compare Acer to EG or Liquid...
Acer still DOES NOT HAVE A SINGLE PROTOSS!!
Acer players have to approve a new player joining, so with me and Nerchio on the team, getting a protoss player seems extremely unlikely :D
That's ridiculous, there are a lot of good protoss with a nice mindset, and giving your veto only because of his race is quite stupid. It's even bad for acer.
there is a thing in there in the internet, called sarcasm, it's quite common that people use it, maybe you should google it
On September 03 2013 11:18 antigravity wrote: How can you even compare Acer to EG or Liquid...
Acer still DOES NOT HAVE A SINGLE PROTOSS!!
Acer players have to approve a new player joining, so with me and Nerchio on the team, getting a protoss player seems extremely unlikely :D
That's ridiculous, there are a lot of good protoss with a nice mindset, and giving your veto only because of his race is quite stupid. It's even bad for acer.
there is a thing in there in the internet, called sarcasm, it's quite common that people use it, maybe you should google it
It's was quite a bad sarcasm then, and absolutly unnecessary.
On September 03 2013 11:18 antigravity wrote: How can you even compare Acer to EG or Liquid...
Acer still DOES NOT HAVE A SINGLE PROTOSS!!
Acer players have to approve a new player joining, so with me and Nerchio on the team, getting a protoss player seems extremely unlikely :D
That's ridiculous, there are a lot of good protoss with a nice mindset, and giving your veto only because of his race is quite stupid. It's even bad for acer.
there is a thing in there in the internet, called sarcasm, it's quite common that people use it, maybe you should google it
It's was quite a bad sarcasm then, and absolutly unnecessary.
Probably my favorite article I've read on teamliquid thus far.. I don't even really like Innovation (not because he's 'bad' or whatever), but even I will root for his and Acer's success with signing one of the undeniably most dominating players in SC2 currently.