On July 14 2013 02:05 iNcontroL wrote: There is still time before we enter talks with him on these things but I can tell you we are about as happy as you can possibly be with a player. He is an absolute fucking pro to work with and it boggles my mind reading some people calling him "bad" or "mid tier" etc.. I know we are supposed to ignore those people but WOW.. lol.
Anyways, I will obviously bleed out myself for a blood ritual trying to enchant all the powers that be in trying to keep him. He is amazing. Hope we can.. we will see!
I feel you, the amount of stupidity people are by saying he's bad and mid tier blows my mind. He's not even having bad results and even though his zvp needs work his zvt and zvz are amazing. But I guess if you place semi finals, finals and ro8 in 3 major events in a row you are considered mid tier :/.
Obviously if you don't win every tournament you participate in, you're terrible... -_-
Why are people getting pissy about the word mid-tier? Mid-tier doesn't mean your terrible lmao. What the heck you think I call HerO, Stephano and JYP? Middle of the roaders when it comes to PL and that should be a good thing. If you win fifty percent of your matches in PL it means you belong and are capable of doing work. It means your built for PL. The major beef people have with Jaedong is his ZvP and judging by his overall stats from this season's PL including all match-ups. There's a whole lot he can work on. Heck, he barely cracks the top 20 and surely he'll improve upon it. If there's anything of interest when it comes to Jaedong it's his work ethic and his brand recognition. Jaedong is still a player you can build a franchise around.
What you're saying would make sense, if ProLeague were the only tournament that these players have participated in.
On July 14 2013 00:33 dinosrwar wrote: JD should go back to GW and train his JvP against Jaehoon to improve and become a super Ace again. He doesn't have any good P practice partners on EG.
He lives right next to Hero and Oz who are at the same level as Jaehoon.
On July 14 2013 02:05 iNcontroL wrote: There is still time before we enter talks with him on these things but I can tell you we are about as happy as you can possibly be with a player. He is an absolute fucking pro to work with and it boggles my mind reading some people calling him "bad" or "mid tier" etc.. I know we are supposed to ignore those people but WOW.. lol.
Anyways, I will obviously bleed out myself for a blood ritual trying to enchant all the powers that be in trying to keep him. He is amazing. Hope we can.. we will see!
I feel you, the amount of stupidity people are by saying he's bad and mid tier blows my mind. He's not even having bad results and even though his zvp needs work his zvt and zvz are amazing. But I guess if you place semi finals, finals and ro8 in 3 major events in a row you are considered mid tier :/.
Obviously if you don't win every tournament you participate in, you're terrible... -_-
Why are people getting pissy about the word mid-tier? Mid-tier doesn't mean your terrible lmao. What the heck you think I call HerO, Stephano and JYP? Middle of the roaders when it comes to PL and that should be a good thing. If you win fifty percent of your matches in PL it means you belong and are capable of doing work. It means your built for PL. The major beef people have with Jaedong is his ZvP and judging by his overall stats from this season's PL including all match-ups. There's a whole lot he can work on. Heck, he barely cracks the top 20 and surely he'll improve upon it. If there's anything of interest when it comes to Jaedong it's his work ethic and his brand recognition. Jaedong is still a player you can build a franchise around.
It's because jaedong isn't mid-tier. If placing semi finals, finals and top 8 in 3 major events in a row is considered mid tier then what do you consider not mid tier? I mean his proleague stats aren't good, but I would place his 3 good results in major lans over a crappy proleague season (for jaedongs standards this wasn't a good season for him).
Because you have to look at tournament results in context. I mean I'm not saying JD is bad, but hyping up his finishes so much isn't really fair. In MLG, he played against pure foreigners, lost to Dear, beat Stats (notable victory) and lost to Naniwa. This is not what I'd call some super impressive run. In DH Stockholm, he beat Gumiho, I think Oz (maybe Coca too?), and then lost to Naniwa after taking out mostly foreigners otherwise. Of all of these, only Gumiho is a truly top tier player, and while his result is definitely notable, it's just one series. In DH Summer, he beat a lot of good foreigners in the group stages, Gumiho, lost 1-2 to Sting, then took out Stephano, Lucifron, and Taeja(!) before losing narrowly to Stardust. This is obviously JD's best result, but I don't think it's "top-player-in-the-world" result.
The fact is that a lot of the tournaments JD placed well in were light on top level Korean players, and of the ones who were there, most of them didn't seem to play JD until quite late into the tournament (except poor Gumiho). Again, JD is not bad. He's good. Really good, even. But he's not anywhere near Soulkey or Innovation or any of the three interchangeable best Protoss players who seem to rotate every few weeks. He's a solid Zerg with a really good ZvZ. He would have an alright chance of making it into WCS Korea, but it would be far from a sure thing and he could easily bomb out of Korea Challenger league on the weakness of his ZvP.
On July 14 2013 02:05 iNcontroL wrote: There is still time before we enter talks with him on these things but I can tell you we are about as happy as you can possibly be with a player. He is an absolute fucking pro to work with and it boggles my mind reading some people calling him "bad" or "mid tier" etc.. I know we are supposed to ignore those people but WOW.. lol.
Anyways, I will obviously bleed out myself for a blood ritual trying to enchant all the powers that be in trying to keep him. He is amazing. Hope we can.. we will see!
I feel you, the amount of stupidity people are by saying he's bad and mid tier blows my mind. He's not even having bad results and even though his zvp needs work his zvt and zvz are amazing. But I guess if you place semi finals, finals and ro8 in 3 major events in a row you are considered mid tier :/.
Obviously if you don't win every tournament you participate in, you're terrible... -_-
Why are people getting pissy about the word mid-tier? Mid-tier doesn't mean your terrible lmao. What the heck you think I call HerO, Stephano and JYP? Middle of the roaders when it comes to PL and that should be a good thing. If you win fifty percent of your matches in PL it means you belong and are capable of doing work. It means your built for PL. The major beef people have with Jaedong is his ZvP and judging by his overall stats from this season's PL including all match-ups. There's a whole lot he can work on. Heck, he barely cracks the top 20 and surely he'll improve upon it. If there's anything of interest when it comes to Jaedong it's his work ethic and his brand recognition. Jaedong is still a player you can build a franchise around.
It's because jaedong isn't mid-tier. If placing semi finals, finals and top 8 in 3 major events in a row is considered mid tier then what do you consider not mid tier? I mean his proleague stats aren't good, but I would place his 3 good results in major lans over a crappy proleague season (for jaedongs standards this wasn't a good season for him).
Because you have to look at tournament results in context. I mean I'm not saying JD is bad, but hyping up his finishes so much isn't really fair. In MLG, he played against pure foreigners, lost to Dear, beat Stats (notable victory) and lost to Naniwa. This is not what I'd call some super impressive run. In DH Stockholm, he beat Gumiho, I think Oz (maybe Coca too?), and then lost to Naniwa after taking out mostly foreigners otherwise. Of all of these, only Gumiho is a truly top tier player, and while his result is definitely notable, it's just one series. In DH Summer, he beat a lot of good foreigners in the group stages, Gumiho, lost 1-2 to Sting, then took out Stephano, Lucifron, and Taeja(!) before losing narrowly to Stardust. This is obviously JD's best result, but I don't think it's "top-player-in-the-world" result.
The fact is that a lot of the tournaments JD placed well in were light on top level Korean players, and of the ones who were there, most of them didn't seem to play JD until quite late into the tournament (except poor Gumiho). Again, JD is not bad. He's good. Really good, even. But he's not anywhere near Soulkey or Innovation or any of the three interchangeable best Protoss players who seem to rotate every few weeks. He's a solid Zerg with a really good ZvZ. He would have an alright chance of making it into WCS Korea, but it would be far from a sure thing and he could easily bomb out of Korea Challenger league on the weakness of his ZvP.
That's my thoughts anyway...
Well nobody is saying he's better then soulkey. He just isn't mid tier. Also he crushed innovation last time they played!
On July 13 2013 07:56 Fuell wrote: Jaedong to eSF!
MVPJaedong pls :>
IM_Jaedong! With Nestea teching him, Jaedong could become unstoppable!
what ? Nestea might even want JD's lessons
I dunno, haven't seen JD doing completely new stuff yet we constantly see random stuff from Nestea. Him thinking up crazy stuff and JD having the skill to preform it sounds scary.
On July 13 2013 07:56 Fuell wrote: Jaedong to eSF!
MVPJaedong pls :>
IM_Jaedong! With Nestea teching him, Jaedong could become unstoppable!
what ? Nestea might even want JD's lessons
I dunno, haven't seen JD doing completely new stuff yet we constantly see random stuff from Nestea. Him thinking up crazy stuff and JD having the skill to preform it sounds scary.
JD's strength isn't in doing random/weird builds but in taking an established playstyle/build and simply performing it better than everyone else. His execution is world class, but his decision making is less so, which is why I think he's so amazing at ZvZ/ZvT and struggling with ZvP. Those other two matchups are much more figured out and stable than ZvP atm. JD doesn't have a reliable way to play it yet. Once he does he'll be terrifying.
I hope he goes back to a Kespa team... Having Jaedong at many foreign tournaments is great but it hurts my soul to see him not reach his full potential.
I don't feel like pulling up the stats, but if we transferred JD's performance and iconic role to Green Wings would they perform really well? Are they the sort of team that needs a strong leading man or are they a more balanced team like CJ or WJS?
I don't see why Jaedong going to a Kespa team will magically see him assume the mantle he had in BW. If anything JD at EGTL looked to be improving and getting a hang of the game more so than when he was on Team8.
Plus Jaedong gets to go to many a foreign tournament. Yeah it mightn't be a big deal for people, but you have to consider how limited the travel opportunities were for folks in his position in BW, perhaps that kind of novelty, getting to travel and see the foreign fans etc may be welcomed by JD?
I wasn't that hopeful when they first picked him up, but tbh I actually think of him as a pretty integral part of EGTL, I can't see him at another team. Hope they have another crack at PL
I actually would like to see JD go back to kespa team, he has been doing great of late on EG but I think he has more potential on a team like kt or sk.
On July 15 2013 12:08 jax1492 wrote: I actually would like to see JD go back to kespa team, he has been doing great of late on EG but I think he has more potential on a team like kt or sk.
As much as I love KT and Jaedong, I would not want to see the two joined. Maybe it's the feeling that TBLS shouldn't be on the same team ever for official events (even though that SPL HotS showmatch thing was fun. I'd hope that training under coach Park and staying passionate about competing through decent results at foreign LANs would be an acceptable alternative.
EPT
