EPTOn June 30 2013 04:45 LighT. wrote:
Eu/NA, great entertaining games
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2013 03:36 boxturtle wrote:
Probably because they like LoL? There's no hope. LoL is plenty of things, but it is not a shit game that you can come back in when they have a better late game comp and you're down 10k net gold. Perhaps that can actually happen in DotA2 if you have very specific comps in which 1 spell can annihilate the entire opposing team if used in the perfect situation.
This irony is that LoL is literally a death ball walking around and having the fight. LoL has many viewers because there are many people who like playing LoL. Watch some decent players play TvZ it's the opposite of what you describe. Watching Sound v Moonglade right now, I can tell you that you either watch Stephano's borefest swarm host all the time or just have no clue what you're talking about.
Fans have watched more than 40 minute slaughters. I've seen them watch a 2 hour slaughter. 2 hours of a team standing no chance even if one of the opposing players died of a heart attack, because they were so up that one of the opponents could play on 2 computers. The fans were cheering every single time a ward died. That's like cheering every single time a scout ling died. There was no hope. These guys just liked watching LoL.
Back to relevancy, the actual STX group may still live. Their shipping is obviously a huge part of their business, but huge companies don't just pitch over and die.
On the other hand, it would be just awesome if something like Redbull funding a Startale team in proleague could happen. That or LG funding an IM team.
On June 30 2013 01:12 forumtext wrote:
Then what is keeping the fans watching a 40 minute slaughter if they don't have reasonable hope that their team can still win? And also the key differences here being "once one side wins a couple of battles", this is precisely what we need in SC2 instead of the "once one side wins THE battle" we are having now.
Edit:I want SC2 to survive and conquer. For that to happen, we need more fans to show (new)sponsors that this SC2 money is worth it. Right now it seems we are losing both sponsors and fans everyday. Anyway I am starting to derail the thread so I better stop now. Thanks for everyone that provided their own opinions.
On June 30 2013 01:02 StarStruck wrote:
lol The guy tunes in to LoL for the first time and thinks the game is about hope? I guess now would be a good time to tell him there are more throws in the NA LoL scene compared to the rest. Yes, snowballing is a factor but these NA teams do make a lot of mistakes and that's what causes the comebacks. There were a couple of entertaining games last night, but let's not kid ourselves. There's a lot of improvement these boys can make and they have a long way to go to catch up to the Koreans just like every other game. If he were to tune into let's say the Korean scene he would see a much different story. Way less throws and once one side wins a couple of team fights. Oh boy, do they ever snowball hard.
On June 30 2013 00:50 theking1 wrote:
1.Actually the reason why you used to hear screams form other zones is because this years mlg venue is a lot smaller compared to last years and the noise issolation is quite bad.The crowd that you mostly likely hear is the COD crowd since I think,but not too certain they are the center stage and basicly anybody can hear them.
2.moreover you would be surprised but in really exiciting game such as Catz vs Dragon or Illusion vs Incontrol sc2 fans were actually loud and cod and lol people in chat complained quite a lot.And i know this since i had all 3 streams open at the same time.And it is normal.The venue is small and every time something exciting happens in any game and the crowd starts yelling the noise is heard by all of the other crowds and hence all of the other streams.
3.Actually comebacks are quite rare in lol.You may have heard about the term known as "snowballing" used by lots of moba players
4.Lol is very fun to watch just like sc2.If you like lol why don't you simply watch lol without derailing the thread with a pessimisitic "sc2 is dying post"
On June 30 2013 00:20 forumtext wrote:
Save SC while we still can!
I think we need to begin to face the fact that SC2 as an epsort game is simply lacking some areas. I was watching SC2 MLG last night and keep hearing the crowds cheers from the other sections, so I decided to watch some LOL seriously for the first time, just to see why it has succeed in the shadows of BW whereas SC2, the rightful heir is fading away.
And the conclusion is - hope!
In competitions, hope is a powerful incentive that keeps the fans on their toes and stops players from giving up. In almost every LOL battle, there is always hope at the end of it that the losing team can still win the war, and for the victorious, there is hope that they will capitalise the advantage and wins the game.
Now let's go back to the state of SC2 today. Around 80% of the game I watch follows this pattern: Player build up their deathballs*, deathballs meet, one of them wins and usually with >40% of their army alive (imho it's due to perfect AI combined with fast pace game play but that's for anther debate), and here is where hope ends in SC2. I am not saying you cannot come back from this spot, but for anyone that watches Pro SC2 regularly, we all know that the chances are close to impossible. Sadly. most of the time our instinct is correct and the loser will just roll-over and dies. Sure, someone will probably bring up examples of games where players do come back from a deficit, but that is a scarce occurrence in today's SC2.
Without hope, players gives up after that first "Deathball v Deathball" encounter. Fans lose interests too because they know the result will likely to be the same as the other 9000+ "Deathball v Deathball" encounters they've watched. Evidence of players giving up includes the now extremely common Deathball battle -> GG. And for the viewers, you just need to see the amount of "lol GG" "ouch that's bad, GG" comments right after the first battle.
/rant
* Deathball
+ Show Spoiler +
Save SC while we still can!
I think we need to begin to face the fact that SC2 as an epsort game is simply lacking some areas. I was watching SC2 MLG last night and keep hearing the crowds cheers from the other sections, so I decided to watch some LOL seriously for the first time, just to see why it has succeed in the shadows of BW whereas SC2, the rightful heir is fading away.
And the conclusion is - hope!
In competitions, hope is a powerful incentive that keeps the fans on their toes and stops players from giving up. In almost every LOL battle, there is always hope at the end of it that the losing team can still win the war, and for the victorious, there is hope that they will capitalise the advantage and wins the game.
Now let's go back to the state of SC2 today. Around 80% of the game I watch follows this pattern: Player build up their deathballs*, deathballs meet, one of them wins and usually with >40% of their army alive (imho it's due to perfect AI combined with fast pace game play but that's for anther debate), and here is where hope ends in SC2. I am not saying you cannot come back from this spot, but for anyone that watches Pro SC2 regularly, we all know that the chances are close to impossible. Sadly. most of the time our instinct is correct and the loser will just roll-over and dies. Sure, someone will probably bring up examples of games where players do come back from a deficit, but that is a scarce occurrence in today's SC2.
Without hope, players gives up after that first "Deathball v Deathball" encounter. Fans lose interests too because they know the result will likely to be the same as the other 9000+ "Deathball v Deathball" encounters they've watched. Evidence of players giving up includes the now extremely common Deathball battle -> GG. And for the viewers, you just need to see the amount of "lol GG" "ouch that's bad, GG" comments right after the first battle.
/rant
* Deathball
+ Show Spoiler +
The threshold for a deathball army varies depending on which stage of the game we are at. But under most scenarios, deathball = ~90% of your current army supply.
1.Actually the reason why you used to hear screams form other zones is because this years mlg venue is a lot smaller compared to last years and the noise issolation is quite bad.The crowd that you mostly likely hear is the COD crowd since I think,but not too certain they are the center stage and basicly anybody can hear them.
2.moreover you would be surprised but in really exiciting game such as Catz vs Dragon or Illusion vs Incontrol sc2 fans were actually loud and cod and lol people in chat complained quite a lot.And i know this since i had all 3 streams open at the same time.And it is normal.The venue is small and every time something exciting happens in any game and the crowd starts yelling the noise is heard by all of the other crowds and hence all of the other streams.
3.Actually comebacks are quite rare in lol.You may have heard about the term known as "snowballing" used by lots of moba players
4.Lol is very fun to watch just like sc2.If you like lol why don't you simply watch lol without derailing the thread with a pessimisitic "sc2 is dying post"
lol The guy tunes in to LoL for the first time and thinks the game is about hope? I guess now would be a good time to tell him there are more throws in the NA LoL scene compared to the rest. Yes, snowballing is a factor but these NA teams do make a lot of mistakes and that's what causes the comebacks. There were a couple of entertaining games last night, but let's not kid ourselves. There's a lot of improvement these boys can make and they have a long way to go to catch up to the Koreans just like every other game. If he were to tune into let's say the Korean scene he would see a much different story. Way less throws and once one side wins a couple of team fights. Oh boy, do they ever snowball hard.
Then what is keeping the fans watching a 40 minute slaughter if they don't have reasonable hope that their team can still win? And also the key differences here being "once one side wins a couple of battles", this is precisely what we need in SC2 instead of the "once one side wins THE battle" we are having now.
Edit:I want SC2 to survive and conquer. For that to happen, we need more fans to show (new)sponsors that this SC2 money is worth it. Right now it seems we are losing both sponsors and fans everyday. Anyway I am starting to derail the thread so I better stop now. Thanks for everyone that provided their own opinions.
Probably because they like LoL? There's no hope. LoL is plenty of things, but it is not a shit game that you can come back in when they have a better late game comp and you're down 10k net gold. Perhaps that can actually happen in DotA2 if you have very specific comps in which 1 spell can annihilate the entire opposing team if used in the perfect situation.
This irony is that LoL is literally a death ball walking around and having the fight. LoL has many viewers because there are many people who like playing LoL. Watch some decent players play TvZ it's the opposite of what you describe. Watching Sound v Moonglade right now, I can tell you that you either watch Stephano's borefest swarm host all the time or just have no clue what you're talking about.
Fans have watched more than 40 minute slaughters. I've seen them watch a 2 hour slaughter. 2 hours of a team standing no chance even if one of the opposing players died of a heart attack, because they were so up that one of the opponents could play on 2 computers. The fans were cheering every single time a ward died. That's like cheering every single time a scout ling died. There was no hope. These guys just liked watching LoL.
Back to relevancy, the actual STX group may still live. Their shipping is obviously a huge part of their business, but huge companies don't just pitch over and die.
On the other hand, it would be just awesome if something like Redbull funding a Startale team in proleague could happen. That or LG funding an IM team.
Eu/NA, great entertaining games
opinions
