On May 11 2013 07:17 sixfour wrote: are there actually cliffs as to why, or is this a snap EG decision on account as to some overly-sensitive people having their jimmies rustled?
Imagine renting a room to your friend. You like the guy but he keeps the toilet dirty. You talk to him, you try to do something about it. It goes on for 3 years. And then you hear your friend say 'yea i live with taht dude and i totally shit all over his bathroom and he's letting me live in his place loooooool'. What would've you done?
It depends, if that hypothetical person was Idra then i would let him shit anywhere he liked.
Even if you were renting other rooms to other people for a living?
Lol really? You're equating Idra's behavior to a comedy routine - a form of entertainment where someone makes a joke that sometimes involves the audience? Comedian's of all people know how fickle a crowd can be - it takes some serious skill to get away with insulting the audience even as a joke, much less being absolutely serious as Idra was.
You're forgetting that Idra didn't just call his entire audience "a bunch of fucks", he went a step further and actually stated that EG endorses his attacks and that he is making money every time he exhibits abusive behavior towards anyone, including innocent bystanders.
Trust me man, if someone is being told they are a stupid, fat "fuck" and a "sheep" after entering a bakery to buy a pastry, do you really think they are going to continue patronizing that business? Anyone who thinks that they can retain customers this way is out of touch with reality and the target audience of companies like EG.
Honestly, if someone told me that when I walked into their bakery, I'd find it pretty humorous and buy my pastries anyway. Surprising character to find in a bakery, ya know? Spices things up.
Also, we aren't really sure if Idra was 100% serious or just making a sarcastic remark with some truth in it.
I think you're out of touch. Most people wouldn't find it funny and wouldn't continue to buy products. Idra knew how serious his post was - someone as tactically affluent as he could not possibly have been ignorant of the consequences. He knew what he was saying and he stood by his statement by not making any attempt to clarify it.
Obviously most people wouldn't react that way.......
But why would he clarify it? He really didn't seem to care that much in the first place, haha. He probably would have been in a much better position if he did, but that clearly was not a huge concern to him.
Alex already clarified it for him. He DOESN't get paid to do it, lol.
Funny, cause he actually did get paid to do it for 3 years. His only mistake was explaining it to the audience who were too dumb to get it.
The community itself created this monster, by choosing what type of players to watch. HyuN can stream with sub 500 viewers while destiny and dragon have 5000, playing the same game. IdrA gave people what they wanted, even though they didn't understand it themselves.
DeMusliM isn't a dick, yet he gets the highest viewer count. White-ra, should I go on? People need to think more and talk less like sheep.
Also, you think people are more stupid than they are. Thanks.
On May 11 2013 05:02 Jeremy Reimer wrote:
On May 11 2013 04:41 quirinus wrote: The gap back then was WAY WAY WAY higher. Any dish-washing B teamer or even just a lowly practice partner of any pro team (they aren't even on the team) would stomp 99.9% of ANY foreigner back then (Nony got close to beating some in Courage, at his prime). Compared to that, Idra took games off Stork and did good in the inside team tournaments. Which is ridiculous considering the language barrier.
Nony came within the final game of WINNING Courage, and even then only lost 2-1 in the final match. Idra never got that far.
He also beat Idra to win the TSL2.
I remember a video interview with someone (was it Hwanni?) before SC2 came out where Artosis asked him if he thought Idra was the best foreign Starcraft player, and he said no, he thought Nony was a more creative and overall better player. I thought that was interesting.
Nony obviously wasn't as successful as Idra at SC2, but that was only because he got hit with crippling depression. Even so, Nony still has a better attitude towards the game than Idra to this day.
Yes, he almost won a courage, and lost to the only one of the two (if I remember correctly) practice partners that were there. So my statement is correct. Not to mention the previous courages he lost.
Idra was stronger than Nony. Being on the B team of CJ is a lot harder than being on Estro... not to mention all the tournament wins. So Idra lost one time to Nony, big deal, he was still stronger than him. 2 of the wins were retarded anyway, I'm pretty sure if they had a few matches Idra would come on top.
I agree Nony is good and had a lot of potential, I really like the guy and I'm sad he didn't achieve it, but because of that we can't know if he'd be a match for Idra, and so Idra is the uncontested number one.
You don't need to be a dick, I never said that and I don't know where you got it from, but you need to have a special personality trait or do shit that has nothing to do with the game. In IdrAs case it was being the angry guy who bms. We have several more players who have taken this approach, although not as extreme.
Demuslim getting 10k viewers or Whitera getting any viewers at all (he wouldn't even beat idra in a bo5) while Top end Code S players get below 1k is just a proof of what I just said. Demuslim might become tournament winning material soon, but so far his biggest achievement is being the 4th best player in the UK and taking #1 on NA GM ladder.
Lol 4th best player in UK? What on Earth? I assume you mean "once came 4th in a UK tournament", he is definitely the best UK player right now, hands down. And has been for a long while
classic Brit, shits on his whole post by nitpicking and missing the point.
Classic Brit? You hating on people from the UK for some reason?
On May 11 2013 07:17 sixfour wrote: are there actually cliffs as to why, or is this a snap EG decision on account as to some overly-sensitive people having their jimmies rustled?
Imagine renting a room to your friend. You like the guy but he keeps the toilet dirty. You talk to him, you try to do something about it. It goes on for 3 years. And then you hear your friend say 'yea i live with taht dude and i totally shit all over his bathroom and he's letting me live in his place loooooool'. What would've you done?
It depends, if that hypothetical person was Idra then i would let him shit anywhere he liked.
Even if you were renting other rooms to other people for a living?
this is the worst example ive seen, because in this hypothetical, you and lots of other people are paying him to shit on your toilet. So why should you be mad when he says that?
Lol really? You're equating Idra's behavior to a comedy routine - a form of entertainment where someone makes a joke that sometimes involves the audience? Comedian's of all people know how fickle a crowd can be - it takes some serious skill to get away with insulting the audience even as a joke, much less being absolutely serious as Idra was.
You're forgetting that Idra didn't just call his entire audience "a bunch of fucks", he went a step further and actually stated that EG endorses his attacks and that he is making money every time he exhibits abusive behavior towards anyone, including innocent bystanders.
Trust me man, if someone is being told they are a stupid, fat "fuck" and a "sheep" after entering a bakery to buy a pastry, do you really think they are going to continue patronizing that business? Anyone who thinks that they can retain customers this way is out of touch with reality and the target audience of companies like EG.
Honestly, if someone told me that when I walked into their bakery, I'd find it pretty humorous and buy my pastries anyway. Surprising character to find in a bakery, ya know? Spices things up.
Also, we aren't really sure if Idra was 100% serious or just making a sarcastic remark with some truth in it.
I think you're out of touch. Most people wouldn't find it funny and wouldn't continue to buy products. Idra knew how serious his post was - someone as tactically affluent as he could not possibly have been ignorant of the consequences. He knew what he was saying and he stood by his statement by not making any attempt to clarify it.
Obviously most people wouldn't react that way.......
But why would he clarify it? He really didn't seem to care that much in the first place, haha. He probably would have been in a much better position if he did, but that clearly was not a huge concern to him.
Alex already clarified it for him. He DOESN't get paid to do it, lol.
Funny, cause he actually did get paid to do it for 3 years. His only mistake was explaining it to the audience who were too dumb to get it.
The community itself created this monster, by choosing what type of players to watch. HyuN can stream with sub 500 viewers while destiny and dragon have 5000, playing the same game. IdrA gave people what they wanted, even though they didn't understand it themselves.
DeMusliM isn't a dick, yet he gets the highest viewer count. White-ra, should I go on? People need to think more and talk less like sheep.
Also, you think people are more stupid than they are. Thanks.
On May 11 2013 05:02 Jeremy Reimer wrote:
On May 11 2013 04:41 quirinus wrote: The gap back then was WAY WAY WAY higher. Any dish-washing B teamer or even just a lowly practice partner of any pro team (they aren't even on the team) would stomp 99.9% of ANY foreigner back then (Nony got close to beating some in Courage, at his prime). Compared to that, Idra took games off Stork and did good in the inside team tournaments. Which is ridiculous considering the language barrier.
Nony came within the final game of WINNING Courage, and even then only lost 2-1 in the final match. Idra never got that far.
He also beat Idra to win the TSL2.
I remember a video interview with someone (was it Hwanni?) before SC2 came out where Artosis asked him if he thought Idra was the best foreign Starcraft player, and he said no, he thought Nony was a more creative and overall better player. I thought that was interesting.
Nony obviously wasn't as successful as Idra at SC2, but that was only because he got hit with crippling depression. Even so, Nony still has a better attitude towards the game than Idra to this day.
Yes, he almost won a courage, and lost to the only one of the two (if I remember correctly) practice partners that were there. So my statement is correct. Not to mention the previous courages he lost.
Idra was stronger than Nony. Being on the B team of CJ is a lot harder than being on Estro... not to mention all the tournament wins. So Idra lost one time to Nony, big deal, he was still stronger than him. 2 of the wins were retarded anyway, I'm pretty sure if they had a few matches Idra would come on top.
I agree Nony is good and had a lot of potential, I really like the guy and I'm sad he didn't achieve it, but because of that we can't know if he'd be a match for Idra, and so Idra is the uncontested number one.
You don't need to be a dick, I never said that and I don't know where you got it from, but you need to have a special personality trait or do shit that has nothing to do with the game. In IdrAs case it was being the angry guy who bms. We have several more players who have taken this approach, although not as extreme.
Demuslim getting 10k viewers or Whitera getting any viewers at all (he wouldn't even beat idra in a bo5) while Top end Code S players get below 1k is just a proof of what I just said. Demuslim might become tournament winning material soon, but so far his biggest achievement is being the 4th best player in the UK and taking #1 on NA GM ladder.
Lol 4th best player in UK? What on Earth? I assume you mean "once came 4th in a UK tournament", he is definitely the best UK player right now, hands down. And has been for a long while
classic Brit, shits on his whole post by nitpicking and missing the point.
I really think Idra would do well in League of Legends, many Brood War players took it up when they realized SC2 didn't hold their passion. If he puts the effort into it like he did SC1, he could go to a Korean team and compete in OGN's league.
Who know's? He might even like it and restore his passion for progaming.
On May 11 2013 07:46 Wolfstan wrote: I really think Idra would do well in League of Legends, many Brood War players took it up when they realized SC2 didn't hold their passion. If he puts the effort into it like he did SC1, he could go to a Korean team and compete in OGN's league.
Who know's? He might even like it and restore his passion for progaming.
This is - for me - a quite puzzling idea. Idra playing a teamgame seems a weired idea. I probably would watch though.
On May 11 2013 07:46 Wolfstan wrote: I really think Idra would do well in League of Legends, many Brood War players took it up when they realized SC2 didn't hold their passion. If he puts the effort into it like he did SC1, he could go to a Korean team and compete in OGN's league.
Who know's? He might even like it and restore his passion for progaming.
Kinda doubt he'd do well. LoL has almost no mechanical requirement. It's entirely teamwork/communications/mental... not exactly his strong suits.
Idra is like.. one of the found members of EG's SC2 team. It's gonna feel so wierd imagining EG with out Idra, or even iNcontrol with no Idra. They were like the dynamic duo of the community. The legendary "Troll and Rage" duo.
On May 11 2013 07:46 Wolfstan wrote: I really think Idra would do well in League of Legends, many Brood War players took it up when they realized SC2 didn't hold their passion. If he puts the effort into it like he did SC1, he could go to a Korean team and compete in OGN's league.
Who know's? He might even like it and restore his passion for progaming.
Kinda doubt he'd do well. LoL has almost no mechanical requirement. It's entirely teamwork/communications/mental... not exactly his strong suits.
Indeed. I don't recall who it was, but there was this interview of an LoL player about how the other SC2 players who moved over did. He responded that SC2 players have great mechanics, but poor teamwork, and so they don't perform well. This is further reinforced by the number of ex-SC2/ex-LoL players moving back to SC2 after HotS release.
On May 11 2013 07:09 Toadvine wrote: Well, even though Idra's pretty bad at SC2 right now, he appears to have developed a method of inducing Stockholm Syndrome in people over the Internet, which is quite impressive if you think about it.
Being hooked into the celebrity marketing arm really helps.
Look at Nani versus Idra 8 months ago. Worlds of difference based on access to the podcasts.
On May 11 2013 07:17 sixfour wrote: are there actually cliffs as to why, or is this a snap EG decision on account as to some overly-sensitive people having their jimmies rustled?
That is why certain people like Destiny have been vocal about their problem with Alex Garfield. Or more they respect Alex, but they have a problem with him being rash regarding these things.
And for me I don't find that too far fetched, Idra's post about the communit was 2 minutes after another post, which together brings much more context; but if Alex only saw what was on reddit with the first liquid post, I can see that reaction coming.
Alex is a great guy, but as 2GD said he's a little too young to run a team that big.
There were reports of EG docking his pay for punishment when Idra did something in the past. There was also a story of EG hiring a mental coach, some kind of sport psychologist working together with Idra. So they probably didn't quite like something about the BM, and they also didn't like him leaving games early at tournaments.
For both there's no change to be seen after several years of trying. It wouldn't be strange if they think there will never be a change, and it isn't a sudden and drastic decision if they don't want to try to wait anymore.
This could also be good for Idra. He needs the eye of the tiger to win something like that match against Polt, but he will simply never ever change if staying on EG. That's kind of proven after all those years. It's just all around a good idea to me, EG and Idra stopping to work together.
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