Throughout the Fall Season, the world’s top StarCraft II players have been battling to earn precious spots in Group Play at the MLG Fall Championship in Dallas from November 2-4. Now that the MvP Invitational is coming to a close, we can reveal an updated list of confirmed players and Group lineups – see below.
Group A
Leenock
HerO
Oz
ViBE
San
MvP Proleague Seed
Open Bracket
Open Bracket
Group B
NaNiwa
TheSTC
Grubby
HwangSin
BabyKnight
MvP Proleague Seed
Open Bracket
Open Bracket
Group C
vIOLet
TaeJa
Revival
Major
Life
MvP Proleague Seed
Open Bracket
Open Bracket
Group D
Heart
First
Daisy
Bomber
Scarlett
MvP Proleague Seed
Open Bracket
Open Bracket
The 4 MvP proleague seeds will be Flash, SoO, Soulkey, and hyvaa. Where they are seeded will be determined by their finish in the MvP Invitational.
On October 24 2012 01:53 Plansix wrote: Grubby can handle that group. Now the question is how many Terrans make it into the groups from the open bracket.
Group C is nearly a group of death. If Flash lands in there it will be crazy, can't wait to see how it all turns out and who also makes it trough the open bracket, I'm really looking forward to this one.
On October 24 2012 01:53 Plansix wrote: Grubby can handle that group. Now the question is how many Terrans make it into the groups from the open bracket.
Fixed for truth.
Wait, NA terrans are good enough to make it through the groups? I thought they lost if the game when longer than 14 minutes or got over 2 bases. Did MLG import a ton of Korean terrans?
Taeja, Life, viOLet - w00t. And the other groups are sick. Every single MvP seed will be sick as well. One of the best MLG so far if not the best all-rounded (Korean) MLG.
Life should take his group without much trouble, but it will be fun to see him go up against the MvP Invitational seed. Flash vs. Life would be so sick.
On October 24 2012 01:53 Plansix wrote: Grubby can handle that group. Now the question is how many Terrans make it into the groups from the open bracket.
Fixed for truth.
Wait, NA terrans are good enough to make it through the groups? I thought they lost if the game when longer than 14 minutes or got over 2 bases. Did MLG import a ton of Korean terrans?
I'm dead optimistic me they got a good chance, have you not seen the MLG MvP standings where not a single NA player ended with a positive win-ratio - Spot the sarcastic bit in this post
It's amazing they managed to ruin the matchup diversity by assigning players from just 2 races to each group. Group A is Ps and Zs, Group B is Ts and Ps, Group C is Ts and Zs. Group B is the only exception. Just wow. This may greatly influence the outcome of the group stage, since it may favor certain players in regards to their best matchups. For example, TheSTC only has Protosses in his group before the open bracket seeds.
On October 24 2012 01:53 Plansix wrote: Grubby can handle that group. Now the question is how many Terrans make it into the groups from the open bracket.
Fixed for truth.
Wait, NA terrans are good enough to make it through the groups? I thought they lost if the game when longer than 14 minutes or got over 2 bases. Did MLG import a ton of Korean terrans?
Depends on the number of Korean Terrans showing up.
On October 24 2012 01:53 Plansix wrote: Grubby can handle that group. Now the question is how many Terrans make it into the groups from the open bracket.
Fixed for truth.
Wait, NA terrans are good enough to make it through the groups? I thought they lost if the game when longer than 14 minutes or got over 2 bases. Did MLG import a ton of Korean terrans?
I'm dead optimistic me they got a good chance, have you not seen the MLG MvP standings where not a single NA player ended with a positive win-ratio - Spot the sarcastic bit in this post
Yeah, well NA players have the burden of a terrible ladder getting to 200/200 quickly will get you into masters and GM. Still I have faith in Grubby and Nani. It should be a good show.
glad to see Grubby finally not getting the group with all the top Koreans. maybe this will be his time to shine. lots of PvP though but he tends to do pretty well in those.
On October 24 2012 01:53 Plansix wrote: Grubby can handle that group. Now the question is how many Terrans make it into the groups from the open bracket.
Fixed for truth.
Grubby will face Kespa player, so good luck to him. Hope for him he gets a better opponent in the LB but probably not cause he almost always has no luck with these kind of things.
On October 24 2012 02:01 Zealously wrote: Life should take his group without much trouble, but it will be fun to see him go up against the MvP Invitational seed. Flash vs. Life would be so sick.
Can't bet against Life, but it IS the group of death
So when will be the first MLG Korea? Because with 6 or 7 non-koreans (and ppl like naniwa afaik still in korea) maybe its cheaper to fly them to the GSL studio instead of flying all those kespa/gom players to the states.
On October 24 2012 02:23 Gr33d wrote: So when will be the first MLG Korea? Because with 6 or 7 non-koreans (and ppl like naniwa afaik still in korea) maybe its cheaper to fly them to the GSL studio instead of flying all those kespa/gom players to the states.
Well there are certain American people who watch this on location and like to see their favorite players in person.
On October 24 2012 02:19 zumpy wrote: woo scarlet! time to whoop on some koreans!
She melted faces to get there with some obscene number of games and wins. Her group also looks very manageable. Given how hard she works and how much she studies, I think she'll just ruin that group.
On October 24 2012 01:58 Romitelli wrote: ViBE and Scarlett only players from NA in group play... such a huge change from 2011 season. And groups A and C looking really stacked.
On October 24 2012 02:03 kiy0 wrote: It's amazing they managed to ruin the matchup diversity by assigning players from just 2 races to each group. Group A is Ps and Zs, Group B is Ts and Ps, Group C is Ts and Zs. Group B is the only exception. Just wow. This may greatly influence the outcome of the group stage, since it may favor certain players in regards to their best matchups. For example, TheSTC only has Protosses in his group before the open bracket seeds.
I was under the impression these groups are based on seeds earned by the players themselves. MLG didn't arbitrarily assign them to groups.
On October 24 2012 02:03 kiy0 wrote: It's amazing they managed to ruin the matchup diversity by assigning players from just 2 races to each group. Group A is Ps and Zs, Group B is Ts and Ps, Group C is Ts and Zs. Group B is the only exception. Just wow. This may greatly influence the outcome of the group stage, since it may favor certain players in regards to their best matchups. For example, TheSTC only has Protosses in his group before the open bracket seeds.
Certain other leagues may subjectively seed groups and pools, but we don't. They are based on prior standings and placement, not on who we feel would be the best match ups.
On October 24 2012 02:19 zumpy wrote: woo scarlet! time to whoop on some koreans!
She melted faces to get there with some obscene number of games and wins. Her group also looks very manageable. Given how hard she works and how much she studies, I think she'll just ruin that group.
Yeah I'm sure she will take the group off of a KeSPA player, 4 code S/A players, and 2 open seed players who are most likely going to be 2 code S/A players...
Her play is so innovating with groundbreaking NA ladder play that Koreans just cannot handle it. I have no doubt that she will RUIN Soulkey, Flash, soO, or hyvaa. They are only crushing through the MvP invite and demolished WCS Asia. Then wreck through Bomber and Heart. They both only have a MLG championship and 2 semi final appearances respectively. I don't even know why First or Daisy shows up against her,
KeSPA players are shaking in their boots, trying not to draw Group D.
On October 24 2012 02:03 kiy0 wrote: It's amazing they managed to ruin the matchup diversity by assigning players from just 2 races to each group. Group A is Ps and Zs, Group B is Ts and Ps, Group C is Ts and Zs. Group B is the only exception. Just wow. This may greatly influence the outcome of the group stage, since it may favor certain players in regards to their best matchups. For example, TheSTC only has Protosses in his group before the open bracket seeds.
Certain other leagues may subjectively seed groups and pools, but we don't. They are based on prior standings and placement, not on who we feel would be the best match ups.
Oh well perhaps that should be considered for the future? There will be SO many mirror matchups, that it will be kind of monotonous. Im not sure that this is utilising the player pool for a variety..That is a huge pity...
Given the recents performances Life should be the favorite in the group of death, but it is a group of death ad TaeJa always plays his best in hard groups. Should be great in any case.
On October 24 2012 02:35 Waxangel wrote: will the groups/brackets be working the same way as MLG Summer?
Yes it is, MLG Deimos explained it in the Fall season details topic
how about seeding for the brackets?
Dont know, cant find that on MLG website but it's probably the same as summer i guess. So highest seed against lowest seed in the groups So all the 3e seeded players in groups are screwed
dunno, kinda feel there were MLGs before which were alot more stacked. and after the probably most stacked GSL season ever, its difficult to get hyped for it. gonna watch nonetheless, goldmembership is definitely paying off.
On October 24 2012 01:58 Romitelli wrote: ViBE and Scarlett only players from NA in group play... such a huge change from 2011 season. And groups A and C looking really stacked.
Major is NA also.
Indeed, I thought he was from Peru, probably got him mixed up with Catz or something lol. Nevertheless, my statement still stands, during the 2011 season group play was flooded with NA players, even with several koreans duking it out in the open bracket. That's why a lot of people flamed MLG for seeding players like Incontrol and Trimaster directly into group play, although it was a sure-fire way to get more matches from the crowd favorites.
I expect group D to be pretty fucking awesome to be honest. I think Scarlett will be able to meet the challenge that that group poses for the most part.
On October 24 2012 01:58 Romitelli wrote: ViBE and Scarlett only players from NA in group play... such a huge change from 2011 season. And groups A and C looking really stacked.
Major is NA also.
Indeed, I thought he was from Peru, probably got him mixed up with Catz or something lol. Nevertheless, my statement still stands, during the 2011 season group play was flooded with NA players, even with several koreans duking it out in the open bracket. That's why a lot of people flamed MLG for seeding players like Incontrol and Trimaster directly into group play, although it was a sure-fire way to get more matches from the crowd favorites.
Probably got him mixed up with Fenix. Terran player from Peru.
Grubby could win his group. This pleases me. Kinda feel bad for MajOr, he's definitely swimming with sharks in that group. D could be crazy, I wonder how Scarlett's ZvT is. Mostly she's only needed stellar ZvZ to win WCS NA and Canada
This tournament is sooo stacked and will cement how good the Kespa players really are. Top Korean competition is here, so I imagine we'll see some amazing matches.
On October 24 2012 02:19 zumpy wrote: woo scarlet! time to whoop on some koreans!
She melted faces to get there with some obscene number of games and wins. Her group also looks very manageable. Given how hard she works and how much she studies, I think she'll just ruin that group.
Ehhh, depends on who the pro league seed is and who comes from opens. Also don't under estimate bomber and first. Both on a good day are very capable of roflstomping pretty much anyway. They just aren't very consistent at doing so. I honestly see her placing around 3rd-4th in that group with the proleague seed in first and Bomber or First in second(Again depending on the open players.)
On October 24 2012 03:52 Mlex wrote: Scarlett to take first in her group, as well as the championship. Calling it.
Not a chance in hell. She MIGHT take first in her group, but even that is iffy... If Scarlett can win the whole championship of a tourny with TaeJa, Life, HerO Kespa players and more I will 100% take sword swallowing lessons and then post a video of me swallowing a sword. Unlike Artosis I will actually deliver on this. Quote me right now if you like.
On October 24 2012 03:52 Mlex wrote: Scarlett to take first in her group, as well as the championship. Calling it.
Not a chance in hell. She MIGHT take first in her group, but even that is iffy... If Scarlett can win the whole championship of a tourny with TaeJa, Life, HerO Kespa players and more I will 100% take sword swallowing lessons and then post a video of me swallowing a sword. Unlike Artosis I will actually deliver on this. Quote me right now if you like.
... Well things certainly got a lot more interesting.
I'd give her an extreme outside chance of it... Though yeah I think Life or Taeja or a Kespa playercould stop her. She beat Hero in RSL and the way she's been playing lately she could do that again I think.
On October 24 2012 03:52 Mlex wrote: Scarlett to take first in her group, as well as the championship. Calling it.
Not a chance in hell. She MIGHT take first in her group, but even that is iffy... If Scarlett can win the whole championship of a tourny with TaeJa, Life, HerO Kespa players and more I will 100% take sword swallowing lessons and then post a video of me swallowing a sword. Unlike Artosis I will actually deliver on this. Quote me right now if you like.
I'm a HUGE Scarlett fan and I agree with you 100%. I really do not think she could beat Life or Taeja right now. We'll see though! Scarlett fighting!!!
THOSE GROUPS whoah i can't even tell which one of those is group of death! Maybe C but they are all so good... Looking forward to this tournament is it free to watch?
Group C is looking like the GoD so far, and Group B is a little underwhelming with mostly Protoss and Terrans. Hope the KeSPA and open bracket players put some interesting players in the groups.
On October 24 2012 03:52 Mlex wrote: Scarlett to take first in her group, as well as the championship. Calling it.
Hope that is just your fanboyism speaking, you forgot there are players like Life, TaeJa, Leenock, viOLet and RevivaL who would crush Scarlett and make her look like a Plat player. Plus the open bracket is bound to have some monsters, and KeSPA players are likely to destroy Scarlett.
On October 24 2012 01:58 Romitelli wrote: ViBE and Scarlett only players from NA in group play... such a huge change from 2011 season. And groups A and C looking really stacked.
On October 24 2012 03:52 Mlex wrote: Scarlett to take first in her group, as well as the championship. Calling it.
Not a chance in hell. She MIGHT take first in her group, but even that is iffy... If Scarlett can win the whole championship of a tourny with TaeJa, Life, HerO Kespa players and more I will 100% take sword swallowing lessons and then post a video of me swallowing a sword. Unlike Artosis I will actually deliver on this. Quote me right now if you like.
Not a scarlett fan at all, but i've never wanted anyone to win a tournament this badly.
On October 24 2012 03:52 Mlex wrote: Scarlett to take first in her group, as well as the championship. Calling it.
Not a chance in hell. She MIGHT take first in her group, but even that is iffy... If Scarlett can win the whole championship of a tourny with TaeJa, Life, HerO Kespa players and more I will 100% take sword swallowing lessons and then post a video of me swallowing a sword. Unlike Artosis I will actually deliver on this. Quote me right now if you like.
... Well things certainly got a lot more interesting.
I'd give her an extreme outside chance of it... Though yeah I think Life or Taeja or a Kespa playercould stop her. She beat Hero in RSL and the way she's been playing lately she could do that again I think.
ALL Koreans ALL the time. Everyone thinks their best player has a "good chance" because they took down ONE notable Korean in an online tournament. When it is a group full of Code A/S players they just shit their pants and go home. Have fun watching 0- X. LMAO
Outside of Stephano, Nerchio and Naniwa there are no foreigners that could get past 1 MLG championship (Bomber), 2 bronze MLG finish (Heart), one of the KeSPA players Flash, Soulkey, and soO. First probably could win WCS NA with only a mouse.
I'm sure Flash v Scarlett is going to be a very close match hahahahahahaha.
Looking forward to group A the most, ViBE has grown on me a lot. I am also interested to see how Major does in his group, especially after his performance at the MLG MVP tourny.
Groups A and C look so much harder than the rest....I hope group D and especially group B get some of the better kespa players and open bracketors.... But besides that. IM SO EXCITED!!!!!!
On October 24 2012 04:15 PhoenixVoid wrote: Group C is looking like the GoD so far, and Group B is a little underwhelming with mostly Protoss and Terrans. Hope the KeSPA and open bracket players put some interesting players in the groups.
On October 24 2012 03:52 Mlex wrote: Scarlett to take first in her group, as well as the championship. Calling it.
Hope that is just your fanboyism speaking, you forgot there are players like Life, TaeJa, Leenock, viOLet and RevivaL who would crush Scarlett and make her look like a Plat player. Plus the open bracket is bound to have some monsters, and KeSPA players are likely to destroy Scarlett.
Well you are getting close to going over the top in the other direction. Scarlett has beaten RevivaL and practices with viOLet sometimes (and yes beats him). Also KeSPA players are not THAT good yet and if the open bracket was like last time they are actually not going to be that many monsters.
The groups look pretty good, but Scarlett is set to crush everyone already listed. Of course we all know the open brackets sometimes produce the most dangerous players, so I think in terms of players we are set to see some great games.
Looking forward to seeing Naniwa. His record in the MvP tournament is very impressive, the only one with a positive record against the pro league players. I watched his games against Flash where he won the game on daybreak and he looked really good. I expect atleast two kespa palyers in top 4.
Group D is clearly the group of death. In Group C, Violet and Revival no longer are the powers they once were. The only two there who are really strong are Taeja and Life.
Group D is really well rounded. Everyone is about the same skill level. Hardest group to predict by far.
On October 24 2012 06:26 markrevival wrote: is it just me or has the talent pool at MLG's sharply declined over the last few seasons? lots of scrubs and not a lot of top talent.
On October 24 2012 06:26 markrevival wrote: is it just me or has the talent pool at MLG's sharply declined over the last few seasons? lots of scrubs and not a lot of top talent.
On October 24 2012 06:26 markrevival wrote: is it just me or has the talent pool at MLG's sharply declined over the last few seasons? lots of scrubs and not a lot of top talent.
On October 24 2012 06:26 markrevival wrote: is it just me or has the talent pool at MLG's sharply declined over the last few seasons? lots of scrubs and not a lot of top talent.
On October 24 2012 02:03 kiy0 wrote: It's amazing they managed to ruin the matchup diversity by assigning players from just 2 races to each group. Group A is Ps and Zs, Group B is Ts and Ps, Group C is Ts and Zs. Group B is the only exception. Just wow. This may greatly influence the outcome of the group stage, since it may favor certain players in regards to their best matchups. For example, TheSTC only has Protosses in his group before the open bracket seeds.
Certain other leagues may subjectively seed groups and pools, but we don't. They are based on prior standings and placement, not on who we feel would be the best match ups.
Oh well perhaps that should be considered for the future? There will be SO many mirror matchups, that it will be kind of monotonous. Im not sure that this is utilising the player pool for a variety..That is a huge pity...
I would rather they didn't disregard the need for consist play. You can't just change the structure of seeding to increase the racial diversity, it would delegitimize the whole process.
This MLG is gonna be awesome - they have Halo 4 as well! :D
I think Scarlett is a great player and I think she has an off-chance but really? Favor her against the likes of Bomber and a Kespa pro? And really, if she gets out of her group, just because she beat Hero in an ONLINE tournament, people think she's somehow favored against him? She CAN do it though.
I just can't wait for this number of Koreans to go to DH's so that NightEnd can shut up about how he feels foreigners are just as good as Koreans. DH stopped inviting GSL champs after MC during his absolute prime (although correct me if I'm wrong). It may never happen though and EU may have delusions of grandeur just because one of them (out of dozens) manages to pick off a Korean or two per DH.
Anyway, sorry about the derail. It would be exciting to see a Kespa pro suddenly take this from an eSF player. I wouldn't mind seeing Life win as well. That kid is a beast.
EDIT: Just noticed Grubby is playing. I'm rooting for him in my heart but in my head, I don't know what kind of chance he has.
Just a thought but I think the Kespa pros are practicing like crazy for this, even more so than their usually grueling routine. I remember just how amazed they were at the response they got when they first went to an MLG. I'm just happy they finally know the recognition they get overseas.
Lastly, I really hope Grubby shows us some amazing game sense and beats the odds.
On October 24 2012 09:04 thatsundowner wrote: yes... ManZenith!!
ManZenith ftw.
San is still an underrated player.
He says he gets nervous playing with a big audience, so lets so how he does playing with just a bunch of other players playing and a big audience at the same time >.>.
My Predictions (Which mean nothing cause I know nothing about this game) Group A - Her0 Group B - Grubby Group C - Life (seriously after GSL who else is there) Group D - Scarlett
On October 24 2012 04:31 Waxangel wrote: Flash is actually overrated, not to say he isn't good and favored against most foreigners ~_~
I just love the uncertainty surrounding the hype
Just realized that Flash is playing Up/Downs tomorrow... would like to see how his skills would fare against Seed, Sirius, SuperNova, and Ryung. That's pretty tough :O
No Stephano? He's still suspended because of this garbage with Bling? This is getting beyond a joke now, it's reasons like this that the game is dying. Teams and the community taking themselves too seriously are making the game less enjoyable to watch. EG might not have had to suspend him if it wasn't for the Internet Police pulling their usual "email the sponsors" crap... And now we've lost out on watching a good player at a good tournament. Good job lads!
On October 24 2012 09:58 Grimbob wrote: No Stephano? He's still suspended because of this garbage with Bling? This is getting beyond a joke now, it's reasons like this that the game is dying. Teams and the community taking themselves too seriously are making the game less enjoyable to watch. EG might not have had to suspend him if it wasn't for the Internet Police pulling their usual "email the sponsors" crap... And now we've lost out on watching a good player at a good tournament. Good job lads!
This event is in November so it wouldn't have been part of the suspension, I believe Stephano is going to ESWC instead of MLG, as they overlap.
On October 24 2012 09:58 Grimbob wrote: No Stephano? He's still suspended because of this garbage with Bling? This is getting beyond a joke now, it's reasons like this that the game is dying. Teams and the community taking themselves too seriously are making the game less enjoyable to watch. EG might not have had to suspend him if it wasn't for the Internet Police pulling their usual "email the sponsors" crap... And now we've lost out on watching a good player at a good tournament. Good job lads!
This event is in November so it wouldn't have been part of the suspension, I believe Stephano is going to ESWC instead of MLG, as they overlap.
Oh, really? Okay then, ignore my passive-aggressive sarcasm then
On October 24 2012 09:58 Grimbob wrote: No Stephano? He's still suspended because of this garbage with Bling? This is getting beyond a joke now, it's reasons like this that the game is dying. Teams and the community taking themselves too seriously are making the game less enjoyable to watch. EG might not have had to suspend him if it wasn't for the Internet Police pulling their usual "email the sponsors" crap... And now we've lost out on watching a good player at a good tournament. Good job lads!
Blaming people for stupidity while being one, good post!
On October 24 2012 08:51 silent_owl wrote: I think Scarlett is a great player and I think she has an off-chance but really? Favor her against the likes of Bomber and a Kespa pro? And really, if she gets out of her group, just because she beat Hero in an ONLINE tournament, people think she's somehow favored against him? She CAN do it though.
I just can't wait for this number of Koreans to go to DH's so that NightEnd can shut up about how he feels foreigners are just as good as Koreans. DH stopped inviting GSL champs after MC during his absolute prime (although correct me if I'm wrong). It may never happen though and EU may have delusions of grandeur just because one of them (out of dozens) manages to pick off a Korean or two per DH.
Anyway, sorry about the derail. It would be exciting to see a Kespa pro suddenly take this from an eSF player. I wouldn't mind seeing Life win as well. That kid is a beast.
EDIT: Just noticed Grubby is playing. I'm rooting for him in my heart but in my head, I don't know what kind of chance he has.
You would think after watching Koreans dominate since the game came out, extending their lead, then adding their entire BW KeSPA pros would educate these ignoramus.
Just let Koreans humiliate foreigners in major tournaments repeatedly, they will come back more bloated ego than ever after one of them beats a Korean 1 out of 10000 matches.
Other than Stephano and Naniwa no foreigner has consistent winning performances against Koreans.
Seriously, NightEnd saying foreigners are just as good as Koreans is the biggest joke ever. They had 3 Code S/A tweeners in their tournament and all of them made it out of their group stages. Couple DHs ago MC and Mvp were casting and MC was just laughing and ridiculing how terrible foreigner games were to them. The gap has only gotten bigger with KeSPA players coming into the mix, disagree with it all you want at the end of the day Koreans will dominate and you will feel silly for even thinking there was any hope for foreigners to put up results.
On October 24 2012 02:19 zumpy wrote: woo scarlet! time to whoop on some koreans!
She melted faces to get there with some obscene number of games and wins. Her group also looks very manageable. Given how hard she works and how much she studies, I think she'll just ruin that group.
Yeah I'm sure she will take the group off of a KeSPA player, 4 code S/A players, and 2 open seed players who are most likely going to be 2 code S/A players...
Her play is so innovating with groundbreaking NA ladder play that Koreans just cannot handle it. I have no doubt that she will RUIN Soulkey, Flash, soO, or hyvaa. They are only crushing through the MvP invite and demolished WCS Asia. Then wreck through Bomber and Heart. They both only have a MLG championship and 2 semi final appearances respectively. I don't even know why First or Daisy shows up against her,
KeSPA players are shaking in their boots, trying not to draw Group D.
No one needs your sarcasm, its really annoying and frustrating to see a hater. Please, if you don't have anything better to say just be quiet.,
On October 24 2012 02:19 zumpy wrote: woo scarlet! time to whoop on some koreans!
She melted faces to get there with some obscene number of games and wins. Her group also looks very manageable. Given how hard she works and how much she studies, I think she'll just ruin that group.
Yeah I'm sure she will take the group off of a KeSPA player, 4 code S/A players, and 2 open seed players who are most likely going to be 2 code S/A players...
Her play is so innovating with groundbreaking NA ladder play that Koreans just cannot handle it. I have no doubt that she will RUIN Soulkey, Flash, soO, or hyvaa. They are only crushing through the MvP invite and demolished WCS Asia. Then wreck through Bomber and Heart. They both only have a MLG championship and 2 semi final appearances respectively. I don't even know why First or Daisy shows up against her,
KeSPA players are shaking in their boots, trying not to draw Group D.
No one needs your sarcasm, its really annoying and frustrating to see a hater. Please, if you don't have anything better to say just be quiet.,
What's annoying and frustrating about it? He was merely stating what should be obvious from any objective viewpoint. Especially when someone describes an outcome as "ruining" ... Which would require an upset to take place for Scarlett to win at all.
Obviously, scarlett is very good at this game. However, being one of the top foreigners does nothing unless you can beat the top koreans too.
Eugh, wish Scarlett fanboys would shut up with their ridiculous hyperbole. I want her to do well, or at least show us for the first time in a stacked field what she's capable of, but people have to post such nonsense that it really makes me want her to lose.
Quite like the lineup of this MLG, also really looking forward to the return of Nani, angry and ready to go.
On October 24 2012 08:51 silent_owl wrote: I think Scarlett is a great player and I think she has an off-chance but really? Favor her against the likes of Bomber and a Kespa pro? And really, if she gets out of her group, just because she beat Hero in an ONLINE tournament, people think she's somehow favored against him? She CAN do it though.
I just can't wait for this number of Koreans to go to DH's so that NightEnd can shut up about how he feels foreigners are just as good as Koreans. DH stopped inviting GSL champs after MC during his absolute prime (although correct me if I'm wrong). It may never happen though and EU may have delusions of grandeur just because one of them (out of dozens) manages to pick off a Korean or two per DH.
Anyway, sorry about the derail. It would be exciting to see a Kespa pro suddenly take this from an eSF player. I wouldn't mind seeing Life win as well. That kid is a beast.
EDIT: Just noticed Grubby is playing. I'm rooting for him in my heart but in my head, I don't know what kind of chance he has.
You would think after watching Koreans dominate since the game came out, extending their lead, then adding their entire BW KeSPA pros would educate these ignoramus.
Just let Koreans humiliate foreigners in major tournaments repeatedly, they will come back more bloated ego than ever after one of them beats a Korean 1 out of 10000 matches.
Other than Stephano and Naniwa no foreigner has consistent winning performances against Koreans.
Seriously, NightEnd saying foreigners are just as good as Koreans is the biggest joke ever. They had 3 Code S/A tweeners in their tournament and all of them made it out of their group stages. Couple DHs ago MC and Mvp were casting and MC was just laughing and ridiculing how terrible foreigner games were to them. The gap has only gotten bigger with KeSPA players coming into the mix, disagree with it all you want at the end of the day Koreans will dominate and you will feel silly for even thinking there was any hope for foreigners to put up results.
Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me? Haha. Your points agree with mine but you use the word, "you", in reference to the people who think foreigners are as good as Koreans (a group which does not include me). It's a little confusing. Lol.
Anyway, I agree with you though. Although, I believe that foreigners can catch up provided they structure their practice regimes the same way as the Kespa (yes, Kespa) teams. As of now, though, come on, NightEnd is full of EU just because he did some laddering in KR for a bit.
On the subject of this MLG, I wonder if more Kespa pros will be competing via the Open Bracket.
Everyone who thinks Scarlett has a chance is underestimating the difficulty of that group. Heart made the Code S Ro. of 16 in GSL Season 4, and finished 3rd at both the Winter Championships and Spring Arena 1. First just got 2nd at the Summer Championships and tied for 3rd/4th in the Summer Arena. Daisy didn't drop a set to a Zerg player in either the Summer Arena or the Summer Championships. Bomber is Bomber, he could beat literally anyone on the right day (She also plays him first). soO, Flash, Soulkey, or hyvaa. Either Flash or a kespa ZvZ, neither of those look too promising to me. Add into that mess any number of Open Bracket players and I see very little chance for Scarlett.
On October 24 2012 02:19 zumpy wrote: woo scarlet! time to whoop on some koreans!
She melted faces to get there with some obscene number of games and wins. Her group also looks very manageable. Given how hard she works and how much she studies, I think she'll just ruin that group.
This has to be one of the most crazy predictions I have ever read Some kind of record? (no offence though, nothing wrong with being a fan)
Heart, First, Daisy, Bomber, Scarlett, Proleague Seed, 2x open bracket? This group is pretty scary.
If you really are her fan be happy if she does well in any way possible, like edging out a few wins.
Anybody know how seeding works for OWB5? Trying to figure out whether my team mate mOOnGLaDe would be seeded or not (he came 5th/6th in the NA Invite-Only qualifier).
On October 24 2012 01:51 smOOthMayDie wrote: No stephano?
He is defending ESWC title at the same time. Arguably more important tournament - a bit stupid of MLG to set tournament date that overlaps with ESWC. There is free weekend between ESWC and WCS WC
On October 24 2012 01:51 smOOthMayDie wrote: No stephano?
He is defending ESWC title at the same time. Arguably more important tournament - a bit stupid of MLG to set tournament date that overlaps with ESWC. There is free weekend between ESWC and WCS WC
wtf are you talking about this MLG date was announced like 6 months before ESWC announced there's lol...
Group B and D look relatively easy compared to A and C. This is relative of course, even they are stacked with Code A level Koreans. Will be a pretty sweet tournament! How far is the MvP invitational btw? Afaik, it will be all Kespa players claiming the seeds from there, right?
On October 24 2012 20:55 ACrow wrote: Group B and D look relatively easy compared to A and C. This is relative of course, even they are stacked with Code A level Koreans. Will be a pretty sweet tournament! How far is the MvP invitational btw? Afaik, it will be all Kespa players claiming the seeds from there, right?
Hyvaa is in Group A, Flash is in Group B. Awaiting results for Soo and Soulkey..
On October 24 2012 20:55 ACrow wrote: Group B and D look relatively easy compared to A and C. This is relative of course, even they are stacked with Code A level Koreans. Will be a pretty sweet tournament! How far is the MvP invitational btw? Afaik, it will be all Kespa players claiming the seeds from there, right?
Hyvaa is in Group A, Flash is in Group B. Awaiting results for Soo and Soulkey..
Ouch, so assuming it will be the same format/rules as Summer, Grubby will play against Flash in the first round... good luck Grubby
Edit: liquidpedia confirms, shame i wont be watching this but that match up is pretty awesome. 2 esports legends
On October 24 2012 02:19 zumpy wrote: woo scarlet! time to whoop on some koreans!
She melted faces to get there with some obscene number of games and wins. Her group also looks very manageable. Given how hard she works and how much she studies, I think she'll just ruin that group.
Yeah I'm sure she will take the group off of a KeSPA player, 4 code S/A players, and 2 open seed players who are most likely going to be 2 code S/A players...
Her play is so innovating with groundbreaking NA ladder play that Koreans just cannot handle it. I have no doubt that she will RUIN Soulkey, Flash, soO, or hyvaa. They are only crushing through the MvP invite and demolished WCS Asia. Then wreck through Bomber and Heart. They both only have a MLG championship and 2 semi final appearances respectively. I don't even know why First or Daisy shows up against her,
KeSPA players are shaking in their boots, trying not to draw Group D.
No one needs your sarcasm, its really annoying and frustrating to see a hater. Please, if you don't have anything better to say just be quiet.,
You mad bro?
I'm sorry I stated the truth of the state of foreigners v Koreans.
We should just embrace stifling egalitarianism and mediocrity.
On October 24 2012 08:51 silent_owl wrote: I think Scarlett is a great player and I think she has an off-chance but really? Favor her against the likes of Bomber and a Kespa pro? And really, if she gets out of her group, just because she beat Hero in an ONLINE tournament, people think she's somehow favored against him? She CAN do it though.
I just can't wait for this number of Koreans to go to DH's so that NightEnd can shut up about how he feels foreigners are just as good as Koreans. DH stopped inviting GSL champs after MC during his absolute prime (although correct me if I'm wrong). It may never happen though and EU may have delusions of grandeur just because one of them (out of dozens) manages to pick off a Korean or two per DH.
Anyway, sorry about the derail. It would be exciting to see a Kespa pro suddenly take this from an eSF player. I wouldn't mind seeing Life win as well. That kid is a beast.
EDIT: Just noticed Grubby is playing. I'm rooting for him in my heart but in my head, I don't know what kind of chance he has.
You would think after watching Koreans dominate since the game came out, extending their lead, then adding their entire BW KeSPA pros would educate these ignoramus.
Just let Koreans humiliate foreigners in major tournaments repeatedly, they will come back more bloated ego than ever after one of them beats a Korean 1 out of 10000 matches.
Other than Stephano and Naniwa no foreigner has consistent winning performances against Koreans.
Seriously, NightEnd saying foreigners are just as good as Koreans is the biggest joke ever. They had 3 Code S/A tweeners in their tournament and all of them made it out of their group stages. Couple DHs ago MC and Mvp were casting and MC was just laughing and ridiculing how terrible foreigner games were to them. The gap has only gotten bigger with KeSPA players coming into the mix, disagree with it all you want at the end of the day Koreans will dominate and you will feel silly for even thinking there was any hope for foreigners to put up results.
Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me? Haha. Your points agree with mine but you use the word, "you", in reference to the people who think foreigners are as good as Koreans (a group which does not include me). It's a little confusing. Lol.
Anyway, I agree with you though. Although, I believe that foreigners can catch up provided they structure their practice regimes the same way as the Kespa (yes, Kespa) teams. As of now, though, come on, NightEnd is full of EU just because he did some laddering in KR for a bit.
On the subject of this MLG, I wonder if more Kespa pros will be competing via the Open Bracket.
I was stating that after significant results are proven time and time again, one would think that even the ignorant would come to an understanding.
Foreign scene never accepts the truth that they are inferior and make outlandish claims on their talent and skill level. Watching those boastful hipster douches get crushed by my hard working brethren is very satisfying.
On October 24 2012 02:19 zumpy wrote: woo scarlet! time to whoop on some koreans!
She melted faces to get there with some obscene number of games and wins. Her group also looks very manageable. Given how hard she works and how much she studies, I think she'll just ruin that group.
Yeah I'm sure she will take the group off of a KeSPA player, 4 code S/A players, and 2 open seed players who are most likely going to be 2 code S/A players...
Her play is so innovating with groundbreaking NA ladder play that Koreans just cannot handle it. I have no doubt that she will RUIN Soulkey, Flash, soO, or hyvaa. They are only crushing through the MvP invite and demolished WCS Asia. Then wreck through Bomber and Heart. They both only have a MLG championship and 2 semi final appearances respectively. I don't even know why First or Daisy shows up against her,
KeSPA players are shaking in their boots, trying not to draw Group D.
No one needs your sarcasm, its really annoying and frustrating to see a hater. Please, if you don't have anything better to say just be quiet.,
You mad bro?
I'm sorry I stated the truth of the state of foreigners v Koreans.
We should just embrace stifling egalitarianism and mediocrity.
On October 24 2012 08:51 silent_owl wrote: I think Scarlett is a great player and I think she has an off-chance but really? Favor her against the likes of Bomber and a Kespa pro? And really, if she gets out of her group, just because she beat Hero in an ONLINE tournament, people think she's somehow favored against him? She CAN do it though.
I just can't wait for this number of Koreans to go to DH's so that NightEnd can shut up about how he feels foreigners are just as good as Koreans. DH stopped inviting GSL champs after MC during his absolute prime (although correct me if I'm wrong). It may never happen though and EU may have delusions of grandeur just because one of them (out of dozens) manages to pick off a Korean or two per DH.
Anyway, sorry about the derail. It would be exciting to see a Kespa pro suddenly take this from an eSF player. I wouldn't mind seeing Life win as well. That kid is a beast.
EDIT: Just noticed Grubby is playing. I'm rooting for him in my heart but in my head, I don't know what kind of chance he has.
You would think after watching Koreans dominate since the game came out, extending their lead, then adding their entire BW KeSPA pros would educate these ignoramus.
Just let Koreans humiliate foreigners in major tournaments repeatedly, they will come back more bloated ego than ever after one of them beats a Korean 1 out of 10000 matches.
Other than Stephano and Naniwa no foreigner has consistent winning performances against Koreans.
Seriously, NightEnd saying foreigners are just as good as Koreans is the biggest joke ever. They had 3 Code S/A tweeners in their tournament and all of them made it out of their group stages. Couple DHs ago MC and Mvp were casting and MC was just laughing and ridiculing how terrible foreigner games were to them. The gap has only gotten bigger with KeSPA players coming into the mix, disagree with it all you want at the end of the day Koreans will dominate and you will feel silly for even thinking there was any hope for foreigners to put up results.
Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me? Haha. Your points agree with mine but you use the word, "you", in reference to the people who think foreigners are as good as Koreans (a group which does not include me). It's a little confusing. Lol.
Anyway, I agree with you though. Although, I believe that foreigners can catch up provided they structure their practice regimes the same way as the Kespa (yes, Kespa) teams. As of now, though, come on, NightEnd is full of EU just because he did some laddering in KR for a bit.
On the subject of this MLG, I wonder if more Kespa pros will be competing via the Open Bracket.
I was stating that after significant results are proven time and time again, one would think that even the ignorant would come to an understanding.
Foreign scene never accepts the truth that they are inferior and make outlandish claims on their talent and skill level. Watching those boastful hipster douches get crushed by my hard working brethren is very satisfying.
youre underestimating scarlett quite alot, shes like 1 of the only foreigners along with stephano and some others that wont get brutally and absolutely destroyed, dont be surprised seeing her not get last in the group, but yeah, she is kinda massively outclassed if she had joined other groups
So much squabble over Scarlett and where she is at as a player. It is still early for her so there is no need to make any bold predictions that she will roll these people or get destroyed blah blah.
That being said - these people saying she has little to no chance etc. etc. could probably do well to shut up until it is proven otherwise that she can't hang. She has shown nothing but a solid record and promise.
P.S. Whoever said those few players would make her look like a platinum player at best obviously doesn't have a clue what they are talking about.
On October 24 2012 09:58 Grimbob wrote: No Stephano? He's still suspended because of this garbage with Bling? This is getting beyond a joke now, it's reasons like this that the game is dying. Teams and the community taking themselves too seriously are making the game less enjoyable to watch. EG might not have had to suspend him if it wasn't for the Internet Police pulling their usual "email the sponsors" crap... And now we've lost out on watching a good player at a good tournament. Good job lads!
This event is in November so it wouldn't have been part of the suspension, I believe Stephano is going to ESWC instead of MLG, as they overlap.
Oh, really? Okay then, ignore my passive-aggressive sarcasm then
Stephano realized the competition at MLG would be absolutely insane (and it is).
Instead he's collecting an EZPZ 1st place finish for 20k at ESWC. Smart man
Sad to see that NA players and foreigner Terrans are so under-represented. Goes to show how much higher the skill level required to make Terran work at the highest level is, I guess. Will be interesting to see how Scarlett does in her first real test against Koreans in a while.
On October 24 2012 01:51 smOOthMayDie wrote: No stephano?
He is defending ESWC title at the same time. Arguably more important tournament - a bit stupid of MLG to set tournament date that overlaps with ESWC. There is free weekend between ESWC and WCS WC
wtf are you talking about this MLG date was announced like 6 months before ESWC announced there's lol...
Well true. But what would you choose? One per year, World Champion class tournament that you are defending champion and takes place in your home country of or yet another MLG?
I think Scarlett will definitely be in a position to win her group (depending on who the other 3 seeded into the group will be). She and Nani are prob the foreigner hope right now so hope she has a strong showing. Hope she or Flash wins. I really have no one else to root for haha.
On October 24 2012 01:51 smOOthMayDie wrote: No stephano?
He is defending ESWC title at the same time. Arguably more important tournament - a bit stupid of MLG to set tournament date that overlaps with ESWC. There is free weekend between ESWC and WCS WC
wtf are you talking about this MLG date was announced like 6 months before ESWC announced there's lol...
Well true. But what would you choose? One per year, World Champion class tournament that you are defending champion and takes place in your home country of or yet another MLG?
On October 24 2012 01:51 smOOthMayDie wrote: No stephano?
He is defending ESWC title at the same time. Arguably more important tournament - a bit stupid of MLG to set tournament date that overlaps with ESWC. There is free weekend between ESWC and WCS WC
wtf are you talking about this MLG date was announced like 6 months before ESWC announced there's lol...
Well true. But what would you choose? One per year, World Champion class tournament that you are defending champion and takes place in your home country of or yet another MLG?
Interested to hear how you define 'world champion class tournament'. I think the majority of the best SC2 players in the world will be in Dallas on Nov 2-4.
On October 24 2012 01:51 smOOthMayDie wrote: No stephano?
He is defending ESWC title at the same time. Arguably more important tournament - a bit stupid of MLG to set tournament date that overlaps with ESWC. There is free weekend between ESWC and WCS WC
wtf are you talking about this MLG date was announced like 6 months before ESWC announced there's lol...
Well true. But what would you choose? One per year, World Champion class tournament that you are defending champion and takes place in your home country of or yet another MLG?
Stephano is there because the competition is easier and it's a shorter travel distance.
On October 24 2012 01:51 smOOthMayDie wrote: No stephano?
He is defending ESWC title at the same time. Arguably more important tournament - a bit stupid of MLG to set tournament date that overlaps with ESWC. There is free weekend between ESWC and WCS WC
wtf are you talking about this MLG date was announced like 6 months before ESWC announced there's lol...
Well true. But what would you choose? One per year, World Champion class tournament that you are defending champion and takes place in your home country of or yet another MLG?
Interested to hear how you define 'world champion class tournament'. I think the majority of the best SC2 players in the world will be in Dallas on Nov 2-4.
I'm not arguing that. MLG will probably have way more top&established players. However "World Championship" type tournament - in my opinion at least - should have national qualifiers/selection. WCG, WCS, ESWC have them and they are different because of that. MLG, IEM, DreamHack - they have more of a tour of their own and the nationality of players is probably not so important for them (if it is relevant at all, that is).
However the "world champion class tournament" is not exactly my idea as I originally found it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manuel_Schenkhuizen - "Schenkhuizen has won more than 38 LAN tournaments, of which 6 are World Championships". The six are: WCG '04, ESWC '05, BlizzCon '05, WSVG '06, WCG '08 and WEM '09. I just adopted the term for my personal use
On October 24 2012 01:51 smOOthMayDie wrote: No stephano?
He is defending ESWC title at the same time. Arguably more important tournament - a bit stupid of MLG to set tournament date that overlaps with ESWC. There is free weekend between ESWC and WCS WC
wtf are you talking about this MLG date was announced like 6 months before ESWC announced there's lol...
Well true. But what would you choose? One per year, World Champion class tournament that you are defending champion and takes place in your home country of or yet another MLG?
Stephano is there because the competition is easier and it's a shorter travel distance.
Really? Isn't he in Korea and generally living in EG house? It would make Europe not exactly in the vicinity. My guess is that it is in France and he is defending champion - the most important reasons.
On October 24 2012 01:51 smOOthMayDie wrote: No stephano?
He is defending ESWC title at the same time. Arguably more important tournament - a bit stupid of MLG to set tournament date that overlaps with ESWC. There is free weekend between ESWC and WCS WC
wtf are you talking about this MLG date was announced like 6 months before ESWC announced there's lol...
Well true. But what would you choose? One per year, World Champion class tournament that you are defending champion and takes place in your home country of or yet another MLG?
ESWC is a world class tourney? Who says that? All I know is ESWC is considered a joke tournament due to its past, but has new owners, but is still a small time tourney in terms of prestige.
On October 24 2012 01:51 smOOthMayDie wrote: No stephano?
He is defending ESWC title at the same time. Arguably more important tournament - a bit stupid of MLG to set tournament date that overlaps with ESWC. There is free weekend between ESWC and WCS WC
wtf are you talking about this MLG date was announced like 6 months before ESWC announced there's lol...
Well true. But what would you choose? One per year, World Champion class tournament that you are defending champion and takes place in your home country of or yet another MLG?
Stephano is there because the competition is easier and it's a shorter travel distance.
Really? Isn't he in Korea and generally living in EG house? It would make Europe not exactly in the vicinity. My guess is that it is in France and he is defending champion - the most important reasons.
He is in Korea at the moment.
When has Stephano shown concerns about defending a title before? I wouldn't be surprised if he went because it was being held in France though.
No surprise that Stephano is afraid to play in the tournament with the best players. In this case its MLG with fearsome kespa players, before that it has been the GSL and he didnt participate in the MvP tournament.
On October 25 2012 10:34 Fjodorov wrote: No surprise that Stephano is afraid to play in the tournament with the best players. In this case its MLG with fearsome kespa players, before that it has been the GSL and he didnt participate in the MvP tournament.
This just seems like a lot of opinion and personal bias reasoned by warping what little information you have to suit your purposes.
On October 24 2012 01:51 smOOthMayDie wrote: No stephano?
He is defending ESWC title at the same time. Arguably more important tournament - a bit stupid of MLG to set tournament date that overlaps with ESWC. There is free weekend between ESWC and WCS WC
wtf are you talking about this MLG date was announced like 6 months before ESWC announced there's lol...
Well true. But what would you choose? One per year, World Champion class tournament that you are defending champion and takes place in your home country of or yet another MLG?
Stephano is there because the competition is easier and it's a shorter travel distance.
Really? Isn't he in Korea and generally living in EG house? It would make Europe not exactly in the vicinity. My guess is that it is in France and he is defending champion - the most important reasons.
europe is closer to asia than america so meh, he probably decided to go to eswc anyway
On October 24 2012 01:51 smOOthMayDie wrote: No stephano?
He is defending ESWC title at the same time. Arguably more important tournament - a bit stupid of MLG to set tournament date that overlaps with ESWC. There is free weekend between ESWC and WCS WC
wtf are you talking about this MLG date was announced like 6 months before ESWC announced there's lol...
Well true. But what would you choose? One per year, World Champion class tournament that you are defending champion and takes place in your home country of or yet another MLG?
Stephano is there because the competition is easier and it's a shorter travel distance.
Really? Isn't he in Korea and generally living in EG house? It would make Europe not exactly in the vicinity. My guess is that it is in France and he is defending champion - the most important reasons.
He is in Korea at the moment.
When has Stephano shown concerns about defending a title before? I wouldn't be surprised if he went because it was being held in France though.
That's not exactly fair. He was tied for 5th place when he was defending IPL title. He is schedule for 2nd Lone Star Clash where he is defending Champion. Now he is defending ESWC and he is attending. He is in NASL4 (again: he is defending champion even if he is not doing so great). As of the WCS Europe it is very recent - so effectively he is defending every major/premier tournament he won.
On October 25 2012 10:34 Fjodorov wrote: No surprise that Stephano is afraid to play in the tournament with the best players. In this case its MLG with fearsome kespa players, before that it has been the GSL and he didnt participate in the MvP tournament.
This just seems like a lot of opinion and personal bias reasoned by warping what little information you have to suit your purposes.
I guess him declining the MvP invite was due to him knowing he would crush the KeSPA elephants too hard?
Everyone knows he is a great foreigner that can keep up with the top tier Koreans, but he never participates in a major Korean tournament. So people have a good reason to think he is choosing to play easier tournaments because he doesn't think he could win the harder ones. He himself stated that he would rather play ez and quick tournaments in EU and NA than play in the GSL or OSL, which would be fiscally more responsible.
Stop contorting intelligent observations to personal bias and conjecture.
Oh wait I forgot, foreign fans are past logic and will claim that foreigners are just as good as Koreans. *cough* Scarlett Only Koreans are getting out of the group stages so have fun watching.
On October 24 2012 01:51 smOOthMayDie wrote: No stephano?
He is defending ESWC title at the same time. Arguably more important tournament - a bit stupid of MLG to set tournament date that overlaps with ESWC. There is free weekend between ESWC and WCS WC
wtf are you talking about this MLG date was announced like 6 months before ESWC announced there's lol...
Well true. But what would you choose? One per year, World Champion class tournament that you are defending champion and takes place in your home country of or yet another MLG?
Stephano is there because the competition is easier and it's a shorter travel distance.
Really? Isn't he in Korea and generally living in EG house? It would make Europe not exactly in the vicinity. My guess is that it is in France and he is defending champion - the most important reasons.
He is in Korea at the moment.
When has Stephano shown concerns about defending a title before? I wouldn't be surprised if he went because it was being held in France though.
That's not exactly fair. He was tied for 5th place when he was defending IPL title. He is schedule for 2nd Lone Star Clash where he is defending Champion. Now he is defending ESWC and he is attending. He is in NASL4 (again: he is defending champion even if he is not doing so great). As of the WCS Europe it is very recent - so effectively he is defending every major/premier tournament he won.
He was seeded into IPL4. He was seeded into Lone Star Clash 2. He was seeded into NASL4.
None of that proves that Stephano cares about "defending" the titles he was won. Because he won the previous events he was given free opportunities to participate in future events; why should he turn those down? Players who are good enough to win events get to pick and choose which events they want to attend, and many of them choose to follow the money. ESWC's payout is slightly less than MLG's but it has two major advantages: it takes place in his country and has easier competition.
On October 24 2012 01:51 smOOthMayDie wrote: No stephano?
He is defending ESWC title at the same time. Arguably more important tournament - a bit stupid of MLG to set tournament date that overlaps with ESWC. There is free weekend between ESWC and WCS WC
wtf are you talking about this MLG date was announced like 6 months before ESWC announced there's lol...
Well true. But what would you choose? One per year, World Champion class tournament that you are defending champion and takes place in your home country of or yet another MLG?
Stephano is there because the competition is easier and it's a shorter travel distance.
Really? Isn't he in Korea and generally living in EG house? It would make Europe not exactly in the vicinity. My guess is that it is in France and he is defending champion - the most important reasons.
He is in Korea at the moment.
When has Stephano shown concerns about defending a title before? I wouldn't be surprised if he went because it was being held in France though.
That's not exactly fair. He was tied for 5th place when he was defending IPL title. He is schedule for 2nd Lone Star Clash where he is defending Champion. Now he is defending ESWC and he is attending. He is in NASL4 (again: he is defending champion even if he is not doing so great). As of the WCS Europe it is very recent - so effectively he is defending every major/premier tournament he won.
He was seeded into IPL4. He was seeded into Lone Star Clash 2. He was seeded into NASL4.
None of that proves that Stephano cares about "defending" the titles he was won. Because he won the previous events he was given free opportunities to participate in future events; why should he turn those down? Players who are good enough to win events get to pick and choose which events they want to attend, and many of them choose to follow the money. ESWC's payout is slightly less than MLG's but it has two major advantages: it takes place in his country and has easier competition.
I'm not saying this mean he cares. I'm simply saying that there is no indication that he doesn't care about it.
On October 24 2012 01:51 smOOthMayDie wrote: No stephano?
He is defending ESWC title at the same time. Arguably more important tournament - a bit stupid of MLG to set tournament date that overlaps with ESWC. There is free weekend between ESWC and WCS WC
wtf are you talking about this MLG date was announced like 6 months before ESWC announced there's lol...
Well true. But what would you choose? One per year, World Champion class tournament that you are defending champion and takes place in your home country of or yet another MLG?
Stephano is there because the competition is easier and it's a shorter travel distance.
Really? Isn't he in Korea and generally living in EG house? It would make Europe not exactly in the vicinity. My guess is that it is in France and he is defending champion - the most important reasons.
He is in Korea at the moment.
When has Stephano shown concerns about defending a title before? I wouldn't be surprised if he went because it was being held in France though.
That's not exactly fair. He was tied for 5th place when he was defending IPL title. He is schedule for 2nd Lone Star Clash where he is defending Champion. Now he is defending ESWC and he is attending. He is in NASL4 (again: he is defending champion even if he is not doing so great). As of the WCS Europe it is very recent - so effectively he is defending every major/premier tournament he won.
He was seeded into IPL4. He was seeded into Lone Star Clash 2. He was seeded into NASL4.
None of that proves that Stephano cares about "defending" the titles he was won. Because he won the previous events he was given free opportunities to participate in future events; why should he turn those down? Players who are good enough to win events get to pick and choose which events they want to attend, and many of them choose to follow the money. ESWC's payout is slightly less than MLG's but it has two major advantages: it takes place in his country and has easier competition.
I'm not saying this mean he cares. I'm simply saying that there is no indication that he doesn't care about it.
But he has also spoken about his priorities, and they do not support the idea.
On October 24 2012 18:20 nimdil wrote: [quote] He is defending ESWC title at the same time. Arguably more important tournament - a bit stupid of MLG to set tournament date that overlaps with ESWC. There is free weekend between ESWC and WCS WC
wtf are you talking about this MLG date was announced like 6 months before ESWC announced there's lol...
Well true. But what would you choose? One per year, World Champion class tournament that you are defending champion and takes place in your home country of or yet another MLG?
Stephano is there because the competition is easier and it's a shorter travel distance.
Really? Isn't he in Korea and generally living in EG house? It would make Europe not exactly in the vicinity. My guess is that it is in France and he is defending champion - the most important reasons.
He is in Korea at the moment.
When has Stephano shown concerns about defending a title before? I wouldn't be surprised if he went because it was being held in France though.
That's not exactly fair. He was tied for 5th place when he was defending IPL title. He is schedule for 2nd Lone Star Clash where he is defending Champion. Now he is defending ESWC and he is attending. He is in NASL4 (again: he is defending champion even if he is not doing so great). As of the WCS Europe it is very recent - so effectively he is defending every major/premier tournament he won.
He was seeded into IPL4. He was seeded into Lone Star Clash 2. He was seeded into NASL4.
None of that proves that Stephano cares about "defending" the titles he was won. Because he won the previous events he was given free opportunities to participate in future events; why should he turn those down? Players who are good enough to win events get to pick and choose which events they want to attend, and many of them choose to follow the money. ESWC's payout is slightly less than MLG's but it has two major advantages: it takes place in his country and has easier competition.
I'm not saying this mean he cares. I'm simply saying that there is no indication that he doesn't care about it.
But he has also spoken about his priorities, and they do not support the idea.
On October 24 2012 02:28 Klondikebar wrote: She melted faces to get there with some obscene number of games and wins. Her group also looks very manageable. Given how hard she works and how much she studies, I think she'll just ruin that group.
This is the most sarcastic thing I've read in a while. Fun to see so many taking it literary.
1. So, I remember that there was another "system", not just group play like this. I think it was pool play, where the scores are 6-1, 4-2 etc etc. and the top 2 go through to the next stage, AND The one we have now (bracket system). Now, there is no pool play, just bracket system?
2. I see no MKP/Polt/MMA :'( Will they have a chance of making it here? Can they be seeded? Because I saw that there are 2 spots for "seeded players" in each group.
On October 27 2012 09:39 dynwar7 wrote: Few questions guys.
1. So, I remember that there was another "system", not just group play like this. I think it was pool play, where the scores are 6-1, 4-2 etc etc. and the top 2 go through to the next stage, AND The one we have now (bracket system). Now, there is no pool play, just bracket system?
2. I see no MKP/Polt/MMA :'( Will they have a chance of making it here? Can they be seeded? Because I saw that there are 2 spots for "seeded players" in each group.
THanks! :D
Pool play is gone and it's bracket play instead. It works exactly the same as last MLG if you want to know how the system works. MKP probably won't come since he didn't qualify so would have to play in the open bracket without a free flight, unless ttesports pays again. Howver, prime also has gstl that weekend.
I'm afraid it will be koreanfest ... seriously, dont get me wrong, they're amazing, but somehow it makes me depreciate a bit the tournament knowing that all foreigners have little to no chances... I'd prefer 20% koreans , instead 90% :/
I sure as hell hope it will be a korean fest. Foreigners are just sooo fucking bad at the game at this point. I have a really hard time watching almost every foreigner know, they are just so passive, so slow and you can tell how little most practice.
Sadly I'm starting to feel the same way about a lot of eSF players since watching the MvP invitational, kespa players are just so much more awesome, I hope all 5 attending will make it into the top5 :D
The groups are setup for at least one foreigner to get out, depending obviously on the strength of the open-bracket players and which groups they happen to be in. It will be interesting no matter what happens, but I'm hoping for some craziness
On November 02 2012 23:32 UndoneJin wrote: The groups are setup for at least one foreigner to get out, depending obviously on the strength of the open-bracket players and which groups they happen to be in. It will be interesting no matter what happens, but I'm hoping for some craziness
It's MLG-format, so everyone in the groups will "get out of the groups", the difference being where they'll be placed in the championship bracket.
On November 02 2012 23:17 Grimmac wrote: I'm afraid it will be koreanfest ... seriously, dont get me wrong, they're amazing, but somehow it makes me depreciate a bit the tournament knowing that all foreigners have little to no chances... I'd prefer 20% koreans , instead 90% :/
edit: typos
Well, against the Koreanfest, now that Stephano is not taking part I guess our hopes are on Naniwa. Of course there's always the opportunity of some dark horse, like QXC for example coming out of the open bracket but that seems pretty unlikely. I don't think we will be seeing many foreigners in the last stages of the tournament. And unfortunately that is currently the state of the game. Korea seems to be dominating and the rest of the world is behind, again..
Without Stephano and Nerchio, foreigner chances aren't great. But let's not ignore Ret, Scarlett, Sheth, ThorZain, Suppy, and even Illusion.
ESWC sorta ruining foreigner chances in this one (Stephano, et al).
However, we get to see KeSPA, so we still get a rivalry. Despite there not being a good KR vs World mechanic here, we have the first big elephant tournament to watch. However, it's harder to explain to my gf and my friends who is who. Effin racists.
On November 02 2012 23:27 Lorch wrote: Foreigners are just sooo fucking bad at the game at this point. I have a really hard time watching almost every foreigner know, they are just so passive, so slow and you can tell how little most practice.
Here's my 2 cents:
At that level it's not that much about practice though. Of course practice always makes better and it's a known fact that foreigners train less than Koreans but I would just like to point out that at the very highest level, like at the very top of the pyramid, it's not actually practice that makes the difference.
Just look at any other sport. I like to use Usain Bolt as an example here because he is so contemporary and so well known to everyone. At the very top of a certain discipline it is always the combination of sheer natural talent as well as practice that determines who is the absolute best. There are hundreds, even thousands of 100m sprinters out there who train as much or even more than Usain Bolt but because Usain Bolt has huge amounts of natural talent and also practices a lot that puts him way above his competitors. The people who are not so naturally talented but practice insane amounts still cannot even come close to him. And that can be applied to pretty much every competitive sports out there. From chess to ice hockey.
Now when you look at Korea and any other country in the world, you have X amount of people who are interested in Starcraft and decide they want to test it out and then try to make it to professional status if they can. They play the game a bit and realise they are better than their opponents and play some more. In Korea the culture is such that X is simply a much bigger amount of people than in any other country and because of that there is a way higher propability that those natural talents actually end up trying the game out. Of course there are some random exceptions to this, like Stephano, but because Esports is so small in the rest of the word that means that the biggest talents outside Korea will probably never even touch Starcraft. And because Korea has that Esports infrastructure as well as the competitive environment that comes with it, they will simply have a much bigger chance of having those Usain Bolts of Starcraft playing the game and being in the professional scene. And there is simply no amount of practice that can counter that.
On November 02 2012 23:27 Lorch wrote: Foreigners are just sooo fucking bad at the game at this point. I have a really hard time watching almost every foreigner know, they are just so passive, so slow and you can tell how little most practice.
Here's my 2 cents:
At that level it's not that much about practice though. Of course practice always makes better and it's a known fact that foreigners train less than Koreans but I would just like to point out that at the very highest level, like at the very top of the pyramid, it's not actually practice that makes the difference.
Just look at any other sport. I like to use Usain Bolt as an example here because he is so contemporary and so well known to everyone. At the very top of a certain discipline it is always the combination of sheer natural talent as well as practice that determines who is the absolute best. There are hundreds, even thousands of 100m sprinters out there who train as much or even more than Usain Bolt but because Usain Bolt has huge amounts of natural talent and also practices a lot that puts him way above his competitors. The people who are not so naturally talented but practice insane amounts still cannot even come close to him. And that can be applied to pretty much every competitive sports out there. From chess to ice hockey.
Very poor analogy. Playing Starcraft is a diverse group of fuzzy skills learned through cognitive effort and mistakes can be easily corrected with proper guidance and attention; as such, your proficiency level is very flexible. "Talent", whatever it is, can and will help but it is ridicolous to expect people to be born with a tailored propensity to a particular videogame. Applying it to Starcraft 2 is pure handwavium. It's not talent that makes the difference at the "top level", is having learned the correct set of skills for Starcraft rather than another one at whatever speed and at whatever point in time. On the other hand, there is hardly any way around the shape of your muscles, which strength must be very carefully built over time and developed without overworking them. I can always learn that the likelihood of timing X is Y, or that my marines tend to die at a certain speed against a set of units, but my quadriceps will only pump so many Newtons before they give up and I am left limping for days to end, not to mention the fact that it won't be possible to grow them past a certain size. There are, of course, many things in SC2 with strong thresholds for humans (micro, probability, calculations etc.), but its overall workings are so fuzzy that it hardly matters.
On November 02 2012 23:17 Grimmac wrote: I'm afraid it will be koreanfest ... seriously, dont get me wrong, they're amazing, but somehow it makes me depreciate a bit the tournament knowing that all foreigners have little to no chances... I'd prefer 20% koreans , instead 90% :/
edit: typos
If you want your precious foreigners to improve, this is the only way. To be the best they have to compete among the best. No one is going to improve without tough competition thrown at them to better themselves. Foreigners already have it easy in the fact that this is their home turf which means less travel, jet lag and difficulties reaching to the destination. As well as the majority of strategies have been innovated by the Koreans...the foreigners simply just have to watch vods and mimic, then refine it over and over until perfection.
On November 02 2012 23:27 Lorch wrote: Foreigners are just sooo fucking bad at the game at this point. I have a really hard time watching almost every foreigner know, they are just so passive, so slow and you can tell how little most practice.
Here's my 2 cents:
At that level it's not that much about practice though. Of course practice always makes better and it's a known fact that foreigners train less than Koreans but I would just like to point out that at the very highest level, like at the very top of the pyramid, it's not actually practice that makes the difference.
Just look at any other sport. I like to use Usain Bolt as an example here because he is so contemporary and so well known to everyone. At the very top of a certain discipline it is always the combination of sheer natural talent as well as practice that determines who is the absolute best. There are hundreds, even thousands of 100m sprinters out there who train as much or even more than Usain Bolt but because Usain Bolt has huge amounts of natural talent and also practices a lot that puts him way above his competitors. The people who are not so naturally talented but practice insane amounts still cannot even come close to him. And that can be applied to pretty much every competitive sports out there. From chess to ice hockey.
Very poor analogy. Playing Starcraft is a diverse group of fuzzy skills learned through cognitive effort and mistakes can be easily corrected with proper guidance and attention; as such, your proficiency level is very flexible. "Talent", whatever it is, can and will help but it is ridicolous to expect people to be born with a tailored propensity to a particular videogame. Applying it to Starcraft 2 is pure handwavium. It's not talent that makes the difference at the "top level", is having learned the correct set of skills for Starcraft rather than another one at whatever speed and at whatever point in time. On the other hand, there is hardly any way around the shape of your muscles, which strength must be very carefully built over time and developed without overworking them. I can always learn that the likelihood of timing X is Y, or that my marines tend to die at a certain speed against a set of units, but my quadriceps will only pump so many Newtons before they give up and I am left limping for days to end, not to mention the fact that it won't be possible to grow them past a certain size. There are, of course, many things in SC2 with strong thresholds for humans (micro, probability, calculations etc.), but its overall workings are so fuzzy that it hardly matters.
You pointed out something that I intetionally left out. The 100m sprint is probably at the lowest level when it comes to complexity of skills involved. And that is why I used it as an example. People are always more or less naturally talented in things, no matter their complexity. And if this happens even in such a simple thing as 100m sprint, just imagine how much more those natural skill can affect more demanding, more complex things.
If you want to look at a situation where "fuzzy" skills are required to win you should look at chess. It is not about the muscles witch which you move the pieces nor how much theory you know. It is about the skill you can show in the actual game and that is something where some people are simply much better than others no matter how much they have practiced. And that is where natural talent comes to play. Look at Kasparov or Carlsen. They are not the best in chess because they have learned the "builds" better than all other pro gamers.
You should look beyond the mechanics and look at decision making, strategy, attack positions and such for the answer. I honestly cannot even say I'm qualified to talk about all the different skillsets that a person can be good at in chess or in Starcraft aside from pure mechanics. As you say, Starcraft is much more "fuzzy" than 100m sprint. But you are right in saying that if you are playing against a computer that plays a million actions per second then you will most likely lose, no matter who you are or how talented you are. We have actually seen that in chess already with Kasparov vs computer. But as long as we are playing against people, mechanics is certainly not the most important thing. If you wan't an example, just look at Flash in BW. Was he better than the rest because he was better mechanically or was it simply because he was better at the game?
And by the way people are born with all kinds of wacky talents. As they grow up, some people realise they are really good at singing, others at running, others at storytelling, others at drawing, others at chess and others at a set of different skills that are required in a certain video game. Of course these talents can always be improved with practice but the simple (and sometimes depressing) truth is that some people just are naturally more talented in things than others.
I'm sure they will be wrong but WTH prediction time! Group A: Kind of up in the air but I will go with HerO! If HerO doesn't win I assume Leenock will. Either that or Hyvaa, who showed great games in MvP. But still, HERO!!!!!! Group B: Looks like Flash should take it. He's not the best Kespa SC2 player, but he made it further in Code A than TheSTC or Naniwa. If Flash loses, it will probably be to TheSTC. Flash!!! Group C: Holy mother of all stacked groups. Smart money is on Life, but with Taeja and skilled zergs in Violet and Soulkey, it is not inconceivable that the Code S champion does not win the group. If he doesn't I'm betting on Taeja. Life!!!! Group D: Unfortunately, The most exciting (and possibly group deciding) game for me will be Scarlett vs. Bomber. If Bomber plays at his best, he should win, and may be able to ride that to a win. However, he will certainly have to contend with soO from the other side of the bracket, and Heart is no slouch either. Bomber!!!
On November 02 2012 23:27 Lorch wrote: Foreigners are just sooo fucking bad at the game at this point. I have a really hard time watching almost every foreigner know, they are just so passive, so slow and you can tell how little most practice.
Here's my 2 cents:
At that level it's not that much about practice though. Of course practice always makes better and it's a known fact that foreigners train less than Koreans but I would just like to point out that at the very highest level, like at the very top of the pyramid, it's not actually practice that makes the difference.
Just look at any other sport. I like to use Usain Bolt as an example here because he is so contemporary and so well known to everyone. At the very top of a certain discipline it is always the combination of sheer natural talent as well as practice that determines who is the absolute best. There are hundreds, even thousands of 100m sprinters out there who train as much or even more than Usain Bolt but because Usain Bolt has huge amounts of natural talent and also practices a lot that puts him way above his competitors. The people who are not so naturally talented but practice insane amounts still cannot even come close to him. And that can be applied to pretty much every competitive sports out there. From chess to ice hockey.
Very poor analogy. Playing Starcraft is a diverse group of fuzzy skills learned through cognitive effort and mistakes can be easily corrected with proper guidance and attention; as such, your proficiency level is very flexible. "Talent", whatever it is, can and will help but it is ridicolous to expect people to be born with a tailored propensity to a particular videogame. Applying it to Starcraft 2 is pure handwavium. It's not talent that makes the difference at the "top level", is having learned the correct set of skills for Starcraft rather than another one at whatever speed and at whatever point in time. On the other hand, there is hardly any way around the shape of your muscles, which strength must be very carefully built over time and developed without overworking them. I can always learn that the likelihood of timing X is Y, or that my marines tend to die at a certain speed against a set of units, but my quadriceps will only pump so many Newtons before they give up and I am left limping for days to end, not to mention the fact that it won't be possible to grow them past a certain size. There are, of course, many things in SC2 with strong thresholds for humans (micro, probability, calculations etc.), but its overall workings are so fuzzy that it hardly matters.
You pointed out something that I intetionally left out. The 100m sprint is probably at the lowest level when it comes to complexity of skills involved. And that is why I used it as an example. People are always more or less naturally talented in things, no matter their complexity. And if this happens even in such a simple thing as 100m sprint, just imagine how much more those natural skill can affect more demanding, more complex things.
Meh, that seems a non-sequitur to me. I fail to see a reason for which more complex tasks should require more "natural talent".
If you want to look at a situation where "fuzzy" skills are required to win you should look at chess. It is not about the muscles witch which you move the pieces nor how much theory you know. It is about the skill you can show in the actual game and that is something where some people are simply much better than others no matter how much they have practiced. And that is where natural talent comes to play. Look at Kasparov or Carlsen. They are not the best in chess because they have learned the "builds" better than all other pro gamers.
Kasparov started formal chess training at a very early age. There are many players that were or have been more "talented" than him, e.g. being recognized as Chess masters at earlier age but have (so far) failed to replicate his achievements. You can work the problem from any angle and ultimately it should be apparent that the best chess players are invariably people who have been heavily invested in the game from early age, and passionately (if not obsessively) so. Of course, most of these people make more mistakes at one point or another and end up being worse than Kasparov or Carlsen (both of who have been coached by top-ranked chess players, by the way). What I am saying is that these differences in eventual skill level are not very aptly described by the world "talent", which is usually associated with innate ability. You can use the word "talented" to identify any chess player who appears to be peculiarly good at any given point in time, but really, there are no basis to assume that the difference is due to their natural propensity rather than having learned different things for entirely different reasons through time. (It is likely a combination of both.) Saying that this difference is due to "talent" is just a way to throw a different blob of letters at the fact that they are clearly better but you don't quite know why. For the accuracy of such statement, you could as well say that Kasparov was really quite swashbuckleful at chess, or Apollo guided his hands, or that the Force was stronger with him.
EPT
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