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Source:
http://www.thisisgame.com/board/view.php?category=13438&id=1274329
This is a response by the eSports Federation(hereafter ESF) to KeSPA's recent decision to join GSL5.
To put it short:
1. ESF is saying they thank and welcome KeSPA's quick response and their deicision to join GSL5.
2. But their decision on not playing their players in the OSL until KeSPA decides to join the GSL still stands.
3. The reason is that KeSPA has still not changed their stance on allowing their players in the GSL in a continuous fashion. (KeSPA is saying they'll join GSL5, nothing on GSLs afterwards nor the imminent GSL4).
4. ESF has made a request to Gomtv to extend the deadline for GSL4 qualifiers applications, which was set to end on the 27th of August.
-I'll try and see if I can translate the article in its entirety later if nobody has done so by then-
Thread centralizing all information: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363249
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Well this mess keeps getting more and more complicated 
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Yay! *grabs popcorn* bring it on Kespa! the ball is in your court now!
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Firm move. Lets see what becomes of it.
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The plot thickens.
I wonder what Kespa will do in return.
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Kinda expected as nobody trusts kespa
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Good shit, Kespa in GSL should be happening asap...
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KeSPA has absolutely no choice but to comply.
Auction All-Kill OSL cannot fail. It would destroy any hope of Korean SC2 ever approaching a hint of the glory it had with Brood War.
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ESF aint fucking around. Very interesting.
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Kespa should let every team decide to participate or not in GSL S4 and not make the decision as a whole.
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The only right move by ESF. Kespa can't be trusted in their saying to join Season 5.
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You could just ask the op of the other thread to include this is the OP. No need for 2 threads on this.
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Canada16217 Posts
On August 25 2012 17:48 Kergy wrote:
Kespa should let every team decide to participate or not in GSL S4 and not make the decision as a whole.
They should let every player decide whether they want to or not.
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Screw it, just let Bisu in OSL instead.
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This is when things get interesting.
Now Kespa either submits, losses face and plots revenge or goes for an all-out war.
Makes no sense for them to start fighting now but who knows.
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On August 25 2012 17:50 6NR wrote:
You could just ask the op of the other thread to include this is the OP. No need for 2 threads on this.
Actually I should just do that, you're right.
But..um..how would I ask him? Do I just pm?
I'm kinda new to posting on here and junk..
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On August 25 2012 17:50 Talin wrote:
Screw it, just let Bisu in OSL instead.
Sacrilege!
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This is intense, *popcorn+shutter shades*. Interesting how ESF picked up on the fact that Kespa agreed to join GSL 5 and nothing about the GSL's after that.
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Hurray. This is a good move by the ESF imo.
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Israel2209 Posts
As expected.
Nobody can fool NesTea with empty promises for future tournaments.
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On August 25 2012 17:44 zezamer wrote:
Kinda expected as nobody trusts kespa
yep thats the problem
kespa destroyed their reputation in the past so much that they arent trusted anymore
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Damn straight ESF. Stand your ground for your kespa brethren.
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I think this is a great move and am happy they did this, if they participate in the OSL without them participating in this GSL as Scoots and Hotbid mentioned there's nothing to stop them being 'busy' during the next gsl once they have had OSL. Happy about this and interested to see where this goes.
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Holy shit ultimatums batman!
What'll Kespa do now I wonder?
I love the esports drama, it's the perfect spice to add to an epic scene. Admit it, drama adds excitement to a scene and this is the best stuff yet. Will OSL fail now? Will Kespa change their mind? It's all to play for folks. The SCV's are pulled and the feds are going all in. Willl Kespa hold?
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I would bet every cent I have, that if they had played, the second OSL was over kespa would have pulled the same thing again for GSL 5. and ESF wouldn't be able to do anything about it, good move for calling them out of their obvious BS
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Canada16217 Posts
On August 25 2012 17:53 Noam wrote:
As expected.
Nobody can fool NesTea with empty promises for future tournaments.
You cannot fool the creator of the universe.
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This is good! Stand their ground, dont let kespa do as they want! Freaking..... pisses me off
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On August 25 2012 17:53 Noam wrote:
As expected.
Nobody can fool NesTea with empty promises for future tournaments.
NO ONE CAN FOOL GOD
NESTEAAAAAAA
Good move by ESF. Very nice to see that they're not gonna give Kespa any 2nd chances! Take that Kespa!
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this is just keep getting better
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Even though this move was the only logical followup to their initial statement... I'm impressed. First they stepped up, now they denied taking an easy way out.
Move by KeSPA basically boiled down to getting ESF to get out of this fight - but with saving their face, by pretending they've accomplished something (there was no more definitive guarantee they'd join season 5 than there was previously about season 4).
WP, GL.
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makes sense, no reason to leave any outs for kespa cause they'll take em for sure. Popcorn in hand :D
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Smart catch by Nestea. No more BS from KeSPa.
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Nice to see that ESF shows that they're a force to be reckoned with. ESF Fighting!
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ESF brings the SC2 metagame on a complete new level!
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nestea and flash are in a battle of the GODS it seems, time for the return of the gods
Poll: WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW?!I AM NESTEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA (338) 88% FLASHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH (45) 12% 383 total votes Your vote: WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW?! (Vote): I AM NESTEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
(Vote): FLASHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
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I support what ESF is doing and i hope the matter gets resolved. Was looking forward to drg vs jangbi or drg vs rain but it's all good.
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China6329 Posts
Things has become more and more interesting :D
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I fear the OSL will just be filled by other KeSPA players.
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You don't fucking mess with nestea man
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Good shit ESF, if they can get them to join GSL4 everybody wins.
On August 25 2012 17:59 Moka wrote:
You don't fucking mess with nestea man
also this
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On August 25 2012 17:54 FXOUnstable wrote:
I would bet every cent I have, that if they had played, the second OSL was over kespa would have pulled the same thing again for GSL 5. and ESF wouldn't be able to do anything about it, good move for calling them out of their obvious BS
+1
That was my first thought when I read it, I mean they had no problem with MSL and it doesn't seem WCS stressed them all that much but as soon as a GOM league comes along :/ too busy, secret big project :/ Pfft
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Good strong move. Well done ESF.
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No matter what happens, this is the right decision.
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What are people so surprised about? ESF clearly said in their previous press release that they will stay away from OSL, as long as Kespa blocks GSL for its players. And currently Kespa is still doing that (seeing that they do not allow participation in season 4). They are just staying consistent, in my opinion.
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On August 25 2012 18:00 JustPassingBy wrote:
What are people so surprised about? ESF clearly said in their previous press release that they will stay away from OSL, as long as Kespa blocks GSL for its players. And currently Kespa is still doing that (seeing that they do not allow participation in season 4). They are just staying consistent, in my opinion.
I don't think it's surprised, just happy that instead of rolling with it they're standing their ground.
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well done ESF so happy your standing your ground. Dont let Kespa propser or they will walk all over you...
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I wonder if the mods are going to merge the threads. I don't really think we need 4 threads for one issue haha. So messy
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I imagine there's going to be an emergency meeting between KeSPA, ESF, GOM & Blizzard come Monday. Hopefully KeSPA allows some of it's own players/coaches to sit in and express their opinions too.
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So KeSPA needs to pen the agreement that they are going to join GSL5 and future events
GSL 4 will not feature them, thats for sure
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
Not bad. Let's just hope KeSPA allows their players to participate in GSL4, or I don't think SC2 will ever have a major breakout in Korea.
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Good for ESF.
Proud of you guys.
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Good move from ESF and good luck to them i hope that everything gets sorted out and we still get to see this OSL go ahead.
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On August 25 2012 18:01 Weirdkid wrote:
I wonder if the mods are going to merge the threads. I don't really think we need 4 threads for one issue haha. So messy
I hope so too ):
I'm new to posting on TL and I have no idea how to go about asking for a merge or ask the other thread to just take this one and put it on the op as an update...
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Woot, excellent. Proud of you, Nestea & Co. Hopefully this whole showing of teeth ends up with some beloved Kespa players taking part in the upcoming GSL very very soon. To quote Tosh: "It don't hurt... much."
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
lol, i've avoided posting in these crapfest threads lately, but reading through them is pretty amusing :p
hope it all works out
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On August 25 2012 17:50 NovemberstOrm wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 17:48 Kergy wrote:
Kespa should let every team decide to participate or not in GSL S4 and not make the decision as a whole. They should let every player decide whether they want to or not.
I hope that's what will come out of this mess. E-sports organization (ESF and Kespa) shouldn't be allowed to decide which player plays in which league. Otherwise, we'll end up with one organization having a monopoly on SC2 in Korea, which is never a really good idea.
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On August 25 2012 17:58 X3GoldDot wrote:nestea and flash are in a battle of the GODS it seems, time for the return of the gods Poll: WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW?!I AM NESTEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA (338) 88% FLASHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH (45) 12% 383 total votes Your vote: WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW?! (Vote): I AM NESTEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
(Vote): FLASHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Too many heathens who believe in a false god. There is only Flash.
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good choice by ESF Kespa could just be blowing smoke about joining gsl season 5 need something concrete and jesus just let the players decide plz!!!!
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On August 25 2012 18:06 KrazyTrumpet wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 17:58 X3GoldDot wrote:nestea and flash are in a battle of the GODS it seems, time for the return of the gods Poll: WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW?!I AM NESTEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA (338) 88% FLASHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH (45) 12% 383 total votes Your vote: WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW?! (Vote): I AM NESTEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
(Vote): FLASHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Too many heathens who believe in a false god. There is only Flash.
Can we vote Flash and still think Kespa should die ? :-D
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On August 25 2012 18:04 Nostalgia.NA wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 18:01 Weirdkid wrote:
I wonder if the mods are going to merge the threads. I don't really think we need 4 threads for one issue haha. So messy I hope so too ): I'm new to posting on TL and I have no idea how to go about asking for a merge or ask the other thread to just take this one and put it on the op as an update...
Haha don't worry about it  The mods will do it if they want to. Besides, people probably won't see the news if it's merged immediately 
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On August 25 2012 18:06 31415926535 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 17:50 NovemberstOrm wrote:On August 25 2012 17:48 Kergy wrote:
Kespa should let every team decide to participate or not in GSL S4 and not make the decision as a whole. They should let every player decide whether they want to or not. I hope that's what will come out of this mess. E-sports organization (ESF and Kespa) shouldn't be allowed to decide which player plays in which league. Otherwise, we'll end up with one organization having a monopoly on SC2 in Korea, which is never a really good idea.
You realise that ESF is a players union pretty much and they decided to not participate in OSL the federation didn't force them not to.
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This OSL definitely lives up to the sponsors name.
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There are only two problems I see here.
A) This creates the opposite problem where perhaps there will be a misunderstanding of intentions, where KeSPA is required to send all of its players to compete, instead of the 'let the players decide' which the ESF probably intended. That would be kinda dumb if the players don't want to.
B) But on the other hand, KeSPA has an absurd amount of control over the players, as we all know. It's entirely possible that even if they agree to compete they'll conveniently just send a few scrappy b-teamers over, and have Flash/Jaedong/Bisu/Stork/Effort/etc release statements claiming that they can't compete for X reason and Y reason in a number of seasons.
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Y'know, I just realized.
This is exactly what Stork was asking for.
YAY STORKU, PREDICTING THE FUTURE!
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You know there is a 3rd reason beyond the two more likely ones as to why KESPA pulled out of GSL4. They might be doing it to screw with GOM or they might be doing it because they dont think they can win and they dont want there players destroyed or they could be doing it to use the only advantage they have in the OSL.
Right now GSL players are flying all over the world competing in different tournaments that use different maps and against different players while the KESPA players are preparing for the OSL. They might be thinking that if they have there players solely focused on beating there opponent than maybe can pull a few upsets and look good in this OSL as opposed to only getting 1 or 2 players thru.
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i have a better strategy for the ESF
take your strongest player, have him and only him compete in this OSL and win the finals
talk about a lol-tastic way to "win" this drama
question is who should it be
i say no to mvp, too risky due to injury
taeja or seed are possibles. is taeja even in the esf
taeja would be my pick for a lock-in garuntee-win in this osl. i believe he isnt on esf either. so funny enough, having taeja compete in the osl would be a hilarious way to have a non-kespa non-esf player win
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great decision by ESF, so much respect for this decision!
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This is a pure power struggle between the two.
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Looks like they want it resolved NOW.
"Fuck your politics".
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I don't get it... if esf players played in osl they would completely thrash kespa players. That was the entire point of kespa keeping their own sc2 proleague and not inviting anyone else yet.
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On August 25 2012 17:53 Noam wrote:
As expected.
Nobody can fool NesTea with empty promises for future tournaments.
:D. Well now what will kespa do? Allow their players to play or allow OSL to be fucked?
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I hope that's what will come out of this mess. E-sports organization (ESF and Kespa) shouldn't be allowed to decide which player plays in which league. Otherwise, we'll end up with one organization having a monopoly on SC2 in Korea, which is never a really good idea.
Well as far as i know ESF is players and their voice is players voice while KeSPA is team owners, sponsors and tournament organizers and they dont give much f* about what players themselves think if any f* at all.
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On August 25 2012 18:07 31415926535 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 18:06 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On August 25 2012 17:58 X3GoldDot wrote:nestea and flash are in a battle of the GODS it seems, time for the return of the gods Poll: WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW?!I AM NESTEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA (338) 88% FLASHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH (45) 12% 383 total votes Your vote: WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW?! (Vote): I AM NESTEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
(Vote): FLASHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Too many heathens who believe in a false god. There is only Flash. Can we vote Flash and still think Kespa should die ? :-D
Why would you vote for Flash and at the same time hope that him and his friends gets unemployed and lose alot of money and security? ;s
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On August 25 2012 18:13 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 17:53 Noam wrote:
As expected.
Nobody can fool NesTea with empty promises for future tournaments. :D. Well now what will kespa do? Allow their players to play or allow OSL to be fucked?
KeSPA will fold. They have no choice. They shoot themselves in the foot if they don't.
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I agree with this. KeSPa must not be allowed to win in this battle. Overall though, if they chose to give KeSPa the benifit of the doubt and play this time, I would not have faulted them either as long as they stood up the next time. I wish we could hear even more of the player's thoughts and reactions.
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On August 25 2012 18:10 ShiroKaisen wrote:
Y'know, I just realized.
This is exactly what Stork was asking for.
YAY STORKU, PREDICTING THE FUTURE!
Still second to boxer
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interesting. considering a ESF player would most likely win the OSL, aren't the players forgoing a chance to win some big dollars? or do their winnings go back to the team like BW (i think)?
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Kespa is basically ESF's bitch if they refuse to be in the OSL. Kespa has got to make sure that those players particpate in the OSL
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I must say this time i expect a different answer of Kespa, i doubt they'll give in twice, although the first one wasn't anything at all.
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I stand by GSL. Where has Kespa been while Gom putting their resources to build up SC 2 in korea???
GSL >>>>>> for life
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On August 25 2012 18:17 Doraemon wrote:
interesting. considering a ESF player would most likely win the OSL, aren't the players forgoing a chance to win some big dollars? or do their winnings go back to the team like BW (i think)?
They have decided this is more important than OSL prize money, I suppose.
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On August 25 2012 18:13 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 17:53 Noam wrote:
As expected.
Nobody can fool NesTea with empty promises for future tournaments. :D. Well now what will kespa do? Allow their players to play or allow OSL to be fucked?
seems like a pretty simple choice to me!
On August 25 2012 18:17 Doraemon wrote:
interesting. considering a ESF player would most likely win the OSL, aren't the players forgoing a chance to win some big dollars? or do their winnings go back to the team like BW (i think)?
OSL is about the prestige, the players from Kespa will most likely have good salaries, so the winnings aren't as big as a deal for them, as it is to SC2 players
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On August 25 2012 18:13 RoieTRS wrote:
I don't get it... if esf players played in osl they would completely thrash kespa players. That was the entire point of kespa keeping their own sc2 proleague and not inviting anyone else yet.
Kespa players have like a 60% win ratio vs ESF players, including vs the very top. There is no gap
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I love this move, balls of steel!
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United Kingdom12022 Posts
On August 25 2012 18:10 Adreme wrote:
You know there is a 3rd reason beyond the two more likely ones as to why KESPA pulled out of GSL4. They might be doing it to screw with GOM or they might be doing it because they dont think they can win and they dont want there players destroyed or they could be doing it to use the only advantage they have in the OSL.
Right now GSL players are flying all over the world competing in different tournaments that use different maps and against different players while the KESPA players are preparing for the OSL. They might be thinking that if they have there players solely focused on beating there opponent than maybe can pull a few upsets and look good in this OSL as opposed to only getting 1 or 2 players thru.
That makes no sense.
There's 8 kespa players in the OSL. There's plenty not who want to go play in the GSL.
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On August 25 2012 18:17 Doraemon wrote:
interesting. considering a ESF player would most likely win the OSL, aren't the players forgoing a chance to win some big dollars? or do their winnings go back to the team like BW (i think)?
Dunno, but I think they all agree that they cant have kespa have the kind of control that they did in BW, or it would ruin korean sc2. Segregated competition sucks, and winning an OSL isn't worth it in this situation.
I seirously dont understand kespa. What's the big deal if b teamers play in the gsl qualifiers? What's the big deal if even flash/jaedong/bisu/stork etc play in the qualifiers? It's their choice. They don't HAVE to play in the qualifiers, but barring them from even trying is such a stupid move.
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On August 25 2012 18:17 Doraemon wrote:
interesting. considering a ESF player would most likely win the OSL, aren't the players forgoing a chance to win some big dollars? or do their winnings go back to the team like BW (i think)?
Not only that, but they're also asking that Kespa players be given the chance to take the GSL prize money. Clearly, for the Federation, it's about what's best for everyone and you have to respect that. Kespa, on the other hand, puts power plays and greed above even their very own players.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On August 25 2012 18:18 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 18:17 Doraemon wrote:
interesting. considering a ESF player would most likely win the OSL, aren't the players forgoing a chance to win some big dollars? or do their winnings go back to the team like BW (i think)? They have decided this is more important than OSL prize money, I suppose.
OSL prize money is like 40k, a dead GSL is much more than that haha
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United Kingdom12022 Posts
I'm so happy ESF are still pushing this. I really hope it's fixed by OSL time though. I don't want to be denied Flash vs MVP T_T
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also you guys have to understand kespa is a bad guy who forces the players what to do, the ESF are the players of the gom teams itself, they had another organisation mroe powerfull before but clsoed it.
when ESF says something its really the oppinion of the most gom players
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On August 25 2012 18:18 tranmillitary wrote:
I stand by GSL. Where has Kespa been while Gom putting their resources to build up SC 2 in korea???
GSL >>>>>> for life
Boxed out by an exclusivity contract.
Don't talk before you do the research.
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On August 25 2012 18:19 ProxyKnoxy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 18:13 RoieTRS wrote:
I don't get it... if esf players played in osl they would completely thrash kespa players. That was the entire point of kespa keeping their own sc2 proleague and not inviting anyone else yet. Kespa players have like a 60% win ratio vs ESF players, including vs the very top. There is no gap
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHA
Seriously look at the qualifiers... yesterday I looked through the first day's results. The only kespa player to win a game against a code B gsl player was Flash over Brown, and then he proceeded to lose to another code B player in Sniper.
Here's the whole day 1 results where I noticed a Kespa player facing a GSL player:
Hoejja 1-2 Harrier
Flying 0-2 Brown
Flash 2-0 Brown, Flash 1-2 Sniper
Crazy-hydra 1-2 inori
Bisu 0-2 Moon
Fantasy 0-2 Pet
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On August 25 2012 18:24 boxman22 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 18:19 ProxyKnoxy wrote:On August 25 2012 18:13 RoieTRS wrote:
I don't get it... if esf players played in osl they would completely thrash kespa players. That was the entire point of kespa keeping their own sc2 proleague and not inviting anyone else yet. Kespa players have like a 60% win ratio vs ESF players, including vs the very top. There is no gap BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHA Seriously look at the qualifiers... yesterday I looked through the first day's results. The only kespa player to win a game against a code B gsl player was Flash over Brown, and then he proceeded to lose to another code B player in Sniper. Here's the whole day 1 results where I noticed a Kespa player facing a GSL player: Hoejja 1-2 Harrier Flying 0-2 Brown Flash 2-0 Brown, Flash 1-2 Sniper Crazy-hydra 1-2 inori Bisu 0-2 Moon Fantasy 0-2 Pet
Umm... those results are olde. You no watch WCS Korea?
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On August 25 2012 18:24 ShiroKaisen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 18:18 tranmillitary wrote:
I stand by GSL. Where has Kespa been while Gom putting their resources to build up SC 2 in korea???
GSL >>>>>> for life Boxed out by an exclusivity contract. Don't talk before you do the research.
Boxed out by their own doing. KESPA was approached first, not GOM.
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On August 25 2012 18:24 boxman22 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 18:19 ProxyKnoxy wrote:On August 25 2012 18:13 RoieTRS wrote:
I don't get it... if esf players played in osl they would completely thrash kespa players. That was the entire point of kespa keeping their own sc2 proleague and not inviting anyone else yet. Kespa players have like a 60% win ratio vs ESF players, including vs the very top. There is no gap BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHA Seriously look at the qualifiers... yesterday I looked through the first day's results. The only kespa player to win a game against a code B gsl player was Flash over Brown, and then he proceeded to lose to another code B player in Sniper. Here's the whole day 1 results where I noticed a Kespa player facing a GSL player: Hoejja 1-2 Harrier Flying 0-2 Brown Flash 2-0 Brown, Flash 1-2 Sniper Crazy-hydra 1-2 inori Bisu 0-2 Moon Fantasy 0-2 Pet
to be honest that was a couple months ago. They have all improved a lot and jaedong/roro have beaten code S players and some other kespa players have. The gap is significantly smaller then it was just a couple months ago.
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On August 25 2012 17:53 CoR wrote:yep thats the problem kespa destroyed their reputation in the past so much that they arent trusted anymore
Oh, the presen't ain't that shiny either.
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To paraphrase Team America...
ESF have balls, I like balls.
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On August 25 2012 18:26 viasacra89 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 18:24 ShiroKaisen wrote:On August 25 2012 18:18 tranmillitary wrote:
I stand by GSL. Where has Kespa been while Gom putting their resources to build up SC 2 in korea???
GSL >>>>>> for life Boxed out by an exclusivity contract. Don't talk before you do the research. Boxed out by their own doing. KESPA was approached first, not GOM.
Kespa was being sued by blizzard...
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On August 25 2012 18:24 boxman22 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 18:19 ProxyKnoxy wrote:On August 25 2012 18:13 RoieTRS wrote:
I don't get it... if esf players played in osl they would completely thrash kespa players. That was the entire point of kespa keeping their own sc2 proleague and not inviting anyone else yet. Kespa players have like a 60% win ratio vs ESF players, including vs the very top. There is no gap BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHA Seriously look at the qualifiers... yesterday I looked through the first day's results. The only kespa player to win a game against a code B gsl player was Flash over Brown, and then he proceeded to lose to another code B player in Sniper. Here's the whole day 1 results where I noticed a Kespa player facing a GSL player: Hoejja 1-2 Harrier Flying 0-2 Brown Flash 2-0 Brown, Flash 1-2 Sniper Crazy-hydra 1-2 inori Bisu 0-2 Moon Fantasy 0-2 Pet
Uh, there's been just a bit more starcraft 2 been played since then.
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On August 25 2012 17:53 Noam wrote:
As expected.
Nobody can fool NesTea with empty promises for future tournaments.
Amen.
Also it's really nice to see KESPA getting a taste of their own medicine. They pretty much strong armed gomtv out of the BW scene back in the day. Now gom's got ESF on its side and they hold all the cards in the SC2.
If KESPA did manage to strong arm their way in, it would set the korean scene back by at least a year.
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On August 25 2012 18:25 densha wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 18:24 boxman22 wrote:On August 25 2012 18:19 ProxyKnoxy wrote:On August 25 2012 18:13 RoieTRS wrote:
I don't get it... if esf players played in osl they would completely thrash kespa players. That was the entire point of kespa keeping their own sc2 proleague and not inviting anyone else yet. Kespa players have like a 60% win ratio vs ESF players, including vs the very top. There is no gap BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHA Seriously look at the qualifiers... yesterday I looked through the first day's results. The only kespa player to win a game against a code B gsl player was Flash over Brown, and then he proceeded to lose to another code B player in Sniper. Here's the whole day 1 results where I noticed a Kespa player facing a GSL player: Hoejja 1-2 Harrier Flying 0-2 Brown Flash 2-0 Brown, Flash 1-2 Sniper Crazy-hydra 1-2 inori Bisu 0-2 Moon Fantasy 0-2 Pet Umm... those results are olde. You no watch WCS Korea?
Since when have month old results not been significant? None of the players who played in WCS Korea played in the qualifiers, so we don't have any way to judge. Presumably Kespa picked the very BEST they have...
Edit: The one Kespa player who did and managed to qualify played at just about the level he played in the qualifiers. Why would we expect everyone else to have massively improved?
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On August 25 2012 18:27 boxman22 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 18:25 densha wrote:On August 25 2012 18:24 boxman22 wrote:On August 25 2012 18:19 ProxyKnoxy wrote:On August 25 2012 18:13 RoieTRS wrote:
I don't get it... if esf players played in osl they would completely thrash kespa players. That was the entire point of kespa keeping their own sc2 proleague and not inviting anyone else yet. Kespa players have like a 60% win ratio vs ESF players, including vs the very top. There is no gap BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHA Seriously look at the qualifiers... yesterday I looked through the first day's results. The only kespa player to win a game against a code B gsl player was Flash over Brown, and then he proceeded to lose to another code B player in Sniper. Here's the whole day 1 results where I noticed a Kespa player facing a GSL player: Hoejja 1-2 Harrier Flying 0-2 Brown Flash 2-0 Brown, Flash 1-2 Sniper Crazy-hydra 1-2 inori Bisu 0-2 Moon Fantasy 0-2 Pet Umm... those results are olde. You no watch WCS Korea? Since when have month old results not been significant? None of the players who played in WCS Korea played in the qualifiers, so we don't have any way to judge. Presumably Kespa picked the very BEST they have...
It's not significant because we've seen Kespa players grow in a single *week*, let alone a single month.
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On August 25 2012 18:27 boxman22 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 18:25 densha wrote:On August 25 2012 18:24 boxman22 wrote:On August 25 2012 18:19 ProxyKnoxy wrote:On August 25 2012 18:13 RoieTRS wrote:
I don't get it... if esf players played in osl they would completely thrash kespa players. That was the entire point of kespa keeping their own sc2 proleague and not inviting anyone else yet. Kespa players have like a 60% win ratio vs ESF players, including vs the very top. There is no gap BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHA Seriously look at the qualifiers... yesterday I looked through the first day's results. The only kespa player to win a game against a code B gsl player was Flash over Brown, and then he proceeded to lose to another code B player in Sniper. Here's the whole day 1 results where I noticed a Kespa player facing a GSL player: Hoejja 1-2 Harrier Flying 0-2 Brown Flash 2-0 Brown, Flash 1-2 Sniper Crazy-hydra 1-2 inori Bisu 0-2 Moon Fantasy 0-2 Pet Umm... those results are olde. You no watch WCS Korea? Since when have month old results not been significant? None of the players who played in WCS Korea played in the qualifiers, so we don't have any way to judge. Presumably Kespa picked the very BEST they have...
Proleague results were used; when you don't know what you're talking about you should just shut up sometimes...
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On August 25 2012 17:58 X3GoldDot wrote:nestea and flash are in a battle of the GODS it seems, time for the return of the gods Poll: WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW?!I AM NESTEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA (338) 88% FLASHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH (45) 12% 383 total votes Your vote: WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW?! (Vote): I AM NESTEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
(Vote): FLASHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
My god is Gustav Mahler, but Nestea would do.
Anyways, this is the correct move.
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This is exactly what they should be doing. Good job eSF.
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On August 25 2012 18:29 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 18:27 boxman22 wrote:On August 25 2012 18:25 densha wrote:On August 25 2012 18:24 boxman22 wrote:On August 25 2012 18:19 ProxyKnoxy wrote:On August 25 2012 18:13 RoieTRS wrote:
I don't get it... if esf players played in osl they would completely thrash kespa players. That was the entire point of kespa keeping their own sc2 proleague and not inviting anyone else yet. Kespa players have like a 60% win ratio vs ESF players, including vs the very top. There is no gap BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHA Seriously look at the qualifiers... yesterday I looked through the first day's results. The only kespa player to win a game against a code B gsl player was Flash over Brown, and then he proceeded to lose to another code B player in Sniper. Here's the whole day 1 results where I noticed a Kespa player facing a GSL player: Hoejja 1-2 Harrier Flying 0-2 Brown Flash 2-0 Brown, Flash 1-2 Sniper Crazy-hydra 1-2 inori Bisu 0-2 Moon Fantasy 0-2 Pet Umm... those results are olde. You no watch WCS Korea? Since when have month old results not been significant? None of the players who played in WCS Korea played in the qualifiers, so we don't have any way to judge. Presumably Kespa picked the very BEST they have... Proleague results were used; when you don't know what you're talking about you should just shut up sometimes...
Well then that proves my point entirely. Those are the very best SC2 players Kespa has. No one else holds a candle to even code B gsl players, as seen by the qualifiers.
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ESF turned out to be insanely good for korean e-sports O_o
That said, they've all seen how nasty KeSPA gets, and don't want a repeat performance in SC2... great things are happening!
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I admire their firm stance!
The current situation has led KeSPA to get caught red handed. The OSL will be a travesty without the ESF players, and they know it. They wont make the same mistake again. They will have an out next time. I like how ESF is pushing their strong negotiating postition.
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While they fight out their quibbles of self-destructive ego, and pride... the real losers are the players and the fans. I hope something can come to dispel all this once and for all but it's probably not gonna happen. Whatever happens, I hope it's minimal damage for the players at least and the ogn network.
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United Kingdom12022 Posts
On August 25 2012 17:58 X3GoldDot wrote:nestea and flash are in a battle of the GODS it seems, time for the return of the gods Poll: WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW?!I AM NESTEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA (338) 88% FLASHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH (45) 12% 383 total votes Your vote: WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW?! (Vote): I AM NESTEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
(Vote): FLASHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
This poll isn't fair. Nestea is right in this situation, but I could never defy flash.
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On August 25 2012 18:31 boxman22 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 18:29 sAsImre wrote:On August 25 2012 18:27 boxman22 wrote:On August 25 2012 18:25 densha wrote:On August 25 2012 18:24 boxman22 wrote:On August 25 2012 18:19 ProxyKnoxy wrote:On August 25 2012 18:13 RoieTRS wrote:
I don't get it... if esf players played in osl they would completely thrash kespa players. That was the entire point of kespa keeping their own sc2 proleague and not inviting anyone else yet. Kespa players have like a 60% win ratio vs ESF players, including vs the very top. There is no gap BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHA Seriously look at the qualifiers... yesterday I looked through the first day's results. The only kespa player to win a game against a code B gsl player was Flash over Brown, and then he proceeded to lose to another code B player in Sniper. Here's the whole day 1 results where I noticed a Kespa player facing a GSL player: Hoejja 1-2 Harrier Flying 0-2 Brown Flash 2-0 Brown, Flash 1-2 Sniper Crazy-hydra 1-2 inori Bisu 0-2 Moon Fantasy 0-2 Pet Umm... those results are olde. You no watch WCS Korea? Since when have month old results not been significant? None of the players who played in WCS Korea played in the qualifiers, so we don't have any way to judge. Presumably Kespa picked the very BEST they have... Proleague results were used; when you don't know what you're talking about you should just shut up sometimes... Well then that proves my point entirely. Those are the very best SC2 players Kespa has. No one else holds a candle to even code B gsl players, as seen by the qualifiers.
Reality > Shine/Symbol/Yugiho. just an example of your ignorance.
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absolutely love the ESF. A players union with no overwhelming control. But as we can see, they can get shit done.
Better system than kespa has IMO, although kespa has huge sponsors etc.
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On August 25 2012 18:27 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 18:26 viasacra89 wrote:On August 25 2012 18:24 ShiroKaisen wrote:On August 25 2012 18:18 tranmillitary wrote:
I stand by GSL. Where has Kespa been while Gom putting their resources to build up SC 2 in korea???
GSL >>>>>> for life Boxed out by an exclusivity contract. Don't talk before you do the research. Boxed out by their own doing. KESPA was approached first, not GOM. Kespa was being sued by blizzard...
Yes they were, because they would blatantly ignore Blizzard on rules. Thats why the rules are stricter in SC2 and why there is no offline mode, so entities like, but not necessarily, Kespa, can't pull the bullshit like they have for the last 10 years.
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On August 25 2012 18:32 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 18:31 boxman22 wrote:On August 25 2012 18:29 sAsImre wrote:On August 25 2012 18:27 boxman22 wrote:On August 25 2012 18:25 densha wrote:On August 25 2012 18:24 boxman22 wrote:On August 25 2012 18:19 ProxyKnoxy wrote:On August 25 2012 18:13 RoieTRS wrote:
I don't get it... if esf players played in osl they would completely thrash kespa players. That was the entire point of kespa keeping their own sc2 proleague and not inviting anyone else yet. Kespa players have like a 60% win ratio vs ESF players, including vs the very top. There is no gap BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHA Seriously look at the qualifiers... yesterday I looked through the first day's results. The only kespa player to win a game against a code B gsl player was Flash over Brown, and then he proceeded to lose to another code B player in Sniper. Here's the whole day 1 results where I noticed a Kespa player facing a GSL player: Hoejja 1-2 Harrier Flying 0-2 Brown Flash 2-0 Brown, Flash 1-2 Sniper Crazy-hydra 1-2 inori Bisu 0-2 Moon Fantasy 0-2 Pet Umm... those results are olde. You no watch WCS Korea? Since when have month old results not been significant? None of the players who played in WCS Korea played in the qualifiers, so we don't have any way to judge. Presumably Kespa picked the very BEST they have... Proleague results were used; when you don't know what you're talking about you should just shut up sometimes... Well then that proves my point entirely. Those are the very best SC2 players Kespa has. No one else holds a candle to even code B gsl players, as seen by the qualifiers. Reality > Shine/Symbol/Yugiho. just an example of your ignorance.
Read the edit. First of all I said day 1 for my results and then I used Reality as an example that you can't even say anyone's improved particularly much. The one example we have did not improve.
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On August 25 2012 18:31 nitdkim wrote:
While they fight out their quibbles of self-destructive ego, and pride... the real losers are the players and the fans. I hope something can come to dispel all this once and for all but it's probably not gonna happen. Whatever happens, I hope it's minimal damage for the players at least and the ogn network.
I really hope that ESF will become the player's union for both GOM and KeSPA players in the end. That's the theoretical best outcome, seeing how badly KeSPA players need a union.
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NESTEA IS A GOD AMONG MEN GODS
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United Kingdom12022 Posts
On August 25 2012 18:34 achan1058 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 18:31 nitdkim wrote:
While they fight out their quibbles of self-destructive ego, and pride... the real losers are the players and the fans. I hope something can come to dispel all this once and for all but it's probably not gonna happen. Whatever happens, I hope it's minimal damage for the players at least and the ogn network. I really hope that ESF will become the player's union for both GOM and KeSPA players in the end. That's the theoretical best outcome, seeing how badly KeSPA players need a union.
I couldn't agree more. The players under Kespa contracts really need a bigger say in what happens to them.
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On August 25 2012 18:11 kaokentake wrote:
i have a better strategy for the ESF
take your strongest player, have him and only him compete in this OSL and win the finals
talk about a lol-tastic way to "win" this drama
question is who should it be
i say no to mvp, too risky due to injury
taeja or seed are possibles. is taeja even in the esf
taeja would be my pick for a lock-in garuntee-win in this osl. i believe he isnt on esf either. so funny enough, having taeja compete in the osl would be a hilarious way to have a non-kespa non-esf player win
only mvp is qualified amongst those 3 players rofl
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On August 25 2012 18:06 KrazyTrumpet wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 17:58 X3GoldDot wrote:nestea and flash are in a battle of the GODS it seems, time for the return of the gods Poll: WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW?!I AM NESTEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA (338) 88% FLASHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH (45) 12% 383 total votes Your vote: WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW?! (Vote): I AM NESTEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
(Vote): FLASHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Too many heathens who believe in a false god. There is only Flash.
NesTea coached Flash. NesTea created the universe, including its god.
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This is turning into a Kespa vs ESF player argument... The thread is about Kespa as an entity blocking players from joining GSL. If you want to say Kespa/ESF players are better, do it elsewhere...
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I'd love to see OSL for the first time, but it is the right thing to stand the ground, otherwise Kespa will keep trying to oust and bully ESF and GOM until they have reestablished their monopoly they had in BW. They need to learn that this is not how it's going to work.
Let's hope this whole drama is soon settled.
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On August 25 2012 18:32 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 18:31 boxman22 wrote:On August 25 2012 18:29 sAsImre wrote:On August 25 2012 18:27 boxman22 wrote:On August 25 2012 18:25 densha wrote:On August 25 2012 18:24 boxman22 wrote:On August 25 2012 18:19 ProxyKnoxy wrote:On August 25 2012 18:13 RoieTRS wrote:
I don't get it... if esf players played in osl they would completely thrash kespa players. That was the entire point of kespa keeping their own sc2 proleague and not inviting anyone else yet. Kespa players have like a 60% win ratio vs ESF players, including vs the very top. There is no gap BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHA Seriously look at the qualifiers... yesterday I looked through the first day's results. The only kespa player to win a game against a code B gsl player was Flash over Brown, and then he proceeded to lose to another code B player in Sniper. Here's the whole day 1 results where I noticed a Kespa player facing a GSL player: Hoejja 1-2 Harrier Flying 0-2 Brown Flash 2-0 Brown, Flash 1-2 Sniper Crazy-hydra 1-2 inori Bisu 0-2 Moon Fantasy 0-2 Pet Umm... those results are olde. You no watch WCS Korea? Since when have month old results not been significant? None of the players who played in WCS Korea played in the qualifiers, so we don't have any way to judge. Presumably Kespa picked the very BEST they have... Proleague results were used; when you don't know what you're talking about you should just shut up sometimes... Well then that proves my point entirely. Those are the very best SC2 players Kespa has. No one else holds a candle to even code B gsl players, as seen by the qualifiers. Reality > Shine/Symbol/Yugiho. just an example of your ignorance.
oh the bw elitist shines in you.. roro was good.. really really good, reality was okey.. but after the top 3-4 players what have kespa had to offer so far? the skill gap inside the kespa ranks is biiiiiiig
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good move by ESF.
I dont see a way how kespa can join s4 without loosing their face.
Looks like this will end up in a "war".
A good thing when you ask me. Better fight this out now than to have a cold war for years.
PS:
i agree with viasacra89
This "who have better players" discussion is total offtopic
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KeSPA is the root of all problems. Since the release of sc2, they are the ones that are destroying e-sports!!!!
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On August 25 2012 18:32 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 18:31 boxman22 wrote:On August 25 2012 18:29 sAsImre wrote:On August 25 2012 18:27 boxman22 wrote:On August 25 2012 18:25 densha wrote:On August 25 2012 18:24 boxman22 wrote:On August 25 2012 18:19 ProxyKnoxy wrote:On August 25 2012 18:13 RoieTRS wrote:
I don't get it... if esf players played in osl they would completely thrash kespa players. That was the entire point of kespa keeping their own sc2 proleague and not inviting anyone else yet. Kespa players have like a 60% win ratio vs ESF players, including vs the very top. There is no gap BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHA Seriously look at the qualifiers... yesterday I looked through the first day's results. The only kespa player to win a game against a code B gsl player was Flash over Brown, and then he proceeded to lose to another code B player in Sniper. Here's the whole day 1 results where I noticed a Kespa player facing a GSL player: Hoejja 1-2 Harrier Flying 0-2 Brown Flash 2-0 Brown, Flash 1-2 Sniper Crazy-hydra 1-2 inori Bisu 0-2 Moon Fantasy 0-2 Pet Umm... those results are olde. You no watch WCS Korea? Since when have month old results not been significant? None of the players who played in WCS Korea played in the qualifiers, so we don't have any way to judge. Presumably Kespa picked the very BEST they have... Proleague results were used; when you don't know what you're talking about you should just shut up sometimes... Well then that proves my point entirely. Those are the very best SC2 players Kespa has. No one else holds a candle to even code B gsl players, as seen by the qualifiers. Reality > Shine/Symbol/Yugiho. just an example of your ignorance.
TBH I don't think you can judge wins by KeSPA players like that. I think that they had an edge in th sense that the GSL players cannot prepare for what was coming (styles, strategies..etc) because they have very little information to analyse. The KeSPA players on the other hand, had months of information which they can use to prepare a particular strategy for the nuances of one player.
I am not taking away the fact that the KeSPA players are good, how much they caught up over the past few months is just astounding, however I think we still need to wait a few months for things to stabilize before we can really pass judgement to who really is at the top of SC2 in Korea.
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I think people are going to realize that StarCraft II esport is entirely self-sufficient without KeSPA or BW level popularity in Korea. Are all teams healthy? no. Are enough teams healthy? Yes.
Foreigner tournaments and foreign fan participation is at an all time high. 10,000 people went to IPL 4 and over 3 million people watched from all over the world. Then MLG Anaheim did just as well if not better. IPL 5 is coming up now and that has the potential to do even better.
With GSL, IPL, MLG, and all the filler tournaments in between, SCII will not die any time soon, whether KeSPA plays nice or not. The ESF is rightly reacting to that. KeSPA can play bully no more.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50185 Posts
On August 25 2012 17:44 Clarityxo wrote:
The plot thickens.
I wonder what Kespa will do in return.
give the fuck in, if KeSPA screws over OGN because of this I will personally make it my life's goal to end them.
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Proud of our SC2 korean originals
Standing up for what is right.
I didn't watch BW because of Kespa. I don't want the same happening for SC2.
Fuck Kespa.
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
Ruh roh. I think this is where the game of chicken ends though. I don't see Kespa budging, just for their unbelievable stubbornness and superiority complex. So most likely, we'll have other Kespa players fill up the empty spots in the OSL (which might be good news for me if  Jaedong comes in! ), and might also cause a little delay. Hopefully, this will not escalate further and turn into Kespa & ESF flat out refusing having anything to do with one another.
The one hope of salvation would be Blizzard & Auction (sponsors of this OSL) stepping up the pressure and forcing Kespa to agree to sticking to their original commitment. However, I just don't see it happening given how huge their egos are.
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On August 25 2012 18:29 achan1058 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 17:58 X3GoldDot wrote:nestea and flash are in a battle of the GODS it seems, time for the return of the gods Poll: WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW?!I AM NESTEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA (338) 88% FLASHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH (45) 12% 383 total votes Your vote: WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW?! (Vote): I AM NESTEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
(Vote): FLASHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
My god is Gustav Mahler, but Nestea would do. Anyways, this is the correct move.
Wow, I love you for this post. Mahler Symphony #5 is so secks
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As much as I would like to see GOM/ESF come out on top with this situation. I can easily see OGN filling the 7-8 OSL spots with Kespa players. And blaming the ESF players for lack of professionalism and whatnot, screwing with them in future OSL tournaments.
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On August 25 2012 18:39 markrevival wrote:
I think people are going to realize that StarCraft II esport is entirely self-sufficient without KeSPA or BW level popularity in Korea. Are all teams healthy? no. Are enough teams healthy? Yes.
Foreigner tournaments and foreign fan participation is at an all time high. 10,000 people went to IPL 4 and over 3 million people watched from all over the world. Then MLG Anaheim did just as well if not better. IPL 5 is coming up now and that has the potential to do even better.
With GSL, IPL, MLG, and all the filler tournaments in between, SCII will not die any time soon, whether KeSPA plays nice or not. The ESF is rightly reacting to that. KeSPA can play bully no more.
Exactly right. Worst case scenario is a split scene in Korea, but the Federation players participate in tournies worldwide and have entertained a large global audience and earned that following. Kespa, on the other hand, will still hold a firm grip on their players and they'll be restricted to the same old OSL/PL and some online MLG matches (unless Kespa comes up with an excuse not to do those too).
SC2 does not need Kespa, the Federation and the world knows that, the question is if Kespa themselves will figure it out before it's too late.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On August 25 2012 18:11 kaokentake wrote:
i have a better strategy for the ESF
take your strongest player, have him and only him compete in this OSL and win the finals
talk about a lol-tastic way to "win" this drama
question is who should it be
i say no to mvp, too risky due to injury
taeja or seed are possibles. is taeja even in the esf
taeja would be my pick for a lock-in garuntee-win in this osl. i believe he isnt on esf either. so funny enough, having taeja compete in the osl would be a hilarious way to have a non-kespa non-esf player win
marineking's the best choice, if ESF withdraws, then there are only terrans and protosses left. MKP has a >80% TvT and >75% TvP, he got the OSL
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50185 Posts
On August 25 2012 18:40 Disengaged wrote:Proud of our SC2 korean originals Standing up for what is right. I didn't watch BW because of Kespa. I don't want the same happening for SC2. Fuck Kespa.
what a weird reason to not watch BW.
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On August 25 2012 18:41 Shinobi1982 wrote:
As much as I would like to see GOM/ESF come out on top with this situation. I can easily see OGN filling the 7-8 OSL spots with Kespa players. And blaming the ESF players for lack of professionalism and whatnot, screwing with them in future OSL tournaments.
They probably just won't play in future OSL's if that happens.
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On August 25 2012 18:43 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 18:40 Disengaged wrote:Proud of our SC2 korean originals Standing up for what is right. I didn't watch BW because of Kespa. I don't want the same happening for SC2. Fuck Kespa. what a weird reason to not watch BW.
Weird?
Not at all.
People don't watch things because of far weirder and stupider reasons.
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On August 25 2012 18:43 Disengaged wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 18:41 Shinobi1982 wrote:
As much as I would like to see GOM/ESF come out on top with this situation. I can easily see OGN filling the 7-8 OSL spots with Kespa players. And blaming the ESF players for lack of professionalism and whatnot, screwing with them in future OSL tournaments. They probably just won't play in future OSL's if that happens.
Yup. To me it seems the players are willing to boycott osl as long as kespa doesn't allow their players to play in GSL.
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On August 25 2012 18:41 Shinobi1982 wrote:
As much as I would like to see GOM/ESF come out on top with this situation. I can easily see OGN filling the 7-8 OSL spots with Kespa players. And blaming the ESF players for lack of professionalism and whatnot, screwing with them in future OSL tournaments.
if the it should be a split in korea between kespa and esf i still think esf will come out ontop, they are the onces that are going to "our" turnements and will get more pr globaly then what kespa will, also with lol beeing so big in korea in not sure kespa can survive on just beeing in korea for many years
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Repeat of what I said in the summary thread, but... I was very much looking forward to watching OSL, however 100% support ESF here.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50185 Posts
On August 25 2012 18:43 Disengaged wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 18:43 BLinD-RawR wrote:On August 25 2012 18:40 Disengaged wrote:Proud of our SC2 korean originals Standing up for what is right. I didn't watch BW because of Kespa. I don't want the same happening for SC2. Fuck Kespa. what a weird reason to not watch BW. Weird? Not at all. People don't watch things because of far weirder and stupider reasons.
true but still, you missed out, but this is off topic.
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Blizzard and OGN are probably going to step in soon (if not already) to help to settle the incident. Afterall, they're part of the group that did the four-party vision declaration in May by Blizzard-Gom-Kespa-OGN.
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On August 25 2012 18:44 raser wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 18:41 Shinobi1982 wrote:
As much as I would like to see GOM/ESF come out on top with this situation. I can easily see OGN filling the 7-8 OSL spots with Kespa players. And blaming the ESF players for lack of professionalism and whatnot, screwing with them in future OSL tournaments. if the it should be a split in korea between kespa and esf i still think esf will come out ontop, they are the onces that are going to "our" turnements and will get more pr globaly then what kespa will, also with lol beeing so big in korea in not sure kespa can survive on just beeing in korea for many years
If that happens though they'll be the ones who look childish, because almost everyone is on the ESF's side on this one lol. If they try to blame ESF that is.
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On August 25 2012 18:42 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 18:11 kaokentake wrote:
i have a better strategy for the ESF
take your strongest player, have him and only him compete in this OSL and win the finals
talk about a lol-tastic way to "win" this drama
question is who should it be
i say no to mvp, too risky due to injury
taeja or seed are possibles. is taeja even in the esf
taeja would be my pick for a lock-in garuntee-win in this osl. i believe he isnt on esf either. so funny enough, having taeja compete in the osl would be a hilarious way to have a non-kespa non-esf player win marineking's the best choice, if ESF withdraws, then there are only terrans and protosses left. MKP has a >80% TvT and >75% TvP, he got the OSL
Problem is his TvZ recently has been awful (As in, fantastic, but countered by zergs) because he didn't immediately find a way to make his terran style work in the new metagame. He'd need Taeja coaching his TvZ metagame to win.
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On August 25 2012 18:45 Zhalad wrote:
Repeat of what I said in the summary thread, but... I was very much looking forward to watching OSL, however 100% support ESF here.
Same. I wanted to watch Jaedong vs MKP if it should happen. (to see who has more fan girls) However, while this mess is going on, I am not going to watch any KeSPA players, and not buy any Samsung products.
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How about ESF and KeSPA get a phone talk or something and make up an agreement, instead of making these public announcements every 8 hours.
So ridiculous.
On August 25 2012 18:48 achan1058 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 18:45 Zhalad wrote:
Repeat of what I said in the summary thread, but... I was very much looking forward to watching OSL, however 100% support ESF here. Same. I wanted to watch Jaedong vs MKP if it should happen. (to see who has more fan girls) However, while this mess is going on, I am not going to watch any KeSPA players, and not buy any Samsung products.
Maybe we should send email to samsung and say we dont all buy their products until we see flash in GSL.
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Oh my god, this never ends :D
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2gL5I.gif)
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Austria24417 Posts
Only move that makes sense.
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On August 25 2012 18:48 Sea_Food wrote:
How about ESF and KeSPA get a phone talk or something and make up an agreement, instead of making these public announcements every 8 hours.
So ridiculous.
I find this more fun to watch actually.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On August 25 2012 18:47 GuitarBizarre wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 18:42 opterown wrote:On August 25 2012 18:11 kaokentake wrote:
i have a better strategy for the ESF
take your strongest player, have him and only him compete in this OSL and win the finals
talk about a lol-tastic way to "win" this drama
question is who should it be
i say no to mvp, too risky due to injury
taeja or seed are possibles. is taeja even in the esf
taeja would be my pick for a lock-in garuntee-win in this osl. i believe he isnt on esf either. so funny enough, having taeja compete in the osl would be a hilarious way to have a non-kespa non-esf player win marineking's the best choice, if ESF withdraws, then there are only terrans and protosses left. MKP has a >80% TvT and >75% TvP, he got the OSL Problem is his TvZ recently has been awful (As in, fantastic, but countered by zergs) because he didn't immediately find a way to make his terran style work in the new metagame. He'd need Taeja coaching his TvZ metagame to win.
doesn't matter, no zergs in OSL 
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Pretty bold move by eSF and I'm very excited to see KeSPA's response to this. Hopefully they will recognize GSL as an "official" tournament and allow their players to participate as soon as possible
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On August 25 2012 18:48 Sea_Food wrote:
How about ESF and KeSPA get a phone talk or something and make up an agreement, instead of making these public announcements every 8 hours.
Not possible when KeSPA is notorious for doing everything within their power to loophole and lie their way out of absolutely everything not strictly in their favor. That fact they're playing sneaky is the entire reason this thing started.
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Oh jeez i hate it stupid regulations damn associations just let evry freakin player play in any torunaments he desires to
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On August 25 2012 18:51 CarlosOmse wrote:
Oh jeez i hate it stupid regulations damn associations just let evry freakin player play in any torunaments he desires to
Then blame KeSPA. ESF is the players, so ESF not wanting to play = players not wanting to play.
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
On August 25 2012 18:43 Disengaged wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 18:43 BLinD-RawR wrote:On August 25 2012 18:40 Disengaged wrote:Proud of our SC2 korean originals Standing up for what is right. I didn't watch BW because of Kespa. I don't want the same happening for SC2. Fuck Kespa. what a weird reason to not watch BW. Weird? Not at all. People don't watch things because of far weirder and stupider reasons.
It is pretty weird. That's like saying I won't watch NBA games because I don't like Stern, or the World Cup because I don't like FIFA and Blatter. It's a pretty weak reason, and most likely you didn't particularly enjoy the thing in the first place.
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I think it's the best move.
OSL needs to prove that hey will play nice. They are the ones that need GSL right now. Not viceversa. Why would GSL players attend and help OSL grow, the federation that will be their doom. It's not smart. You need your enemy to make the first step into diplomacy here.
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YES
YESYESYESYESYESYESYES
this is absolutely the right move by ESF. KeSPA can't be trusted here. they
will fight tooth and nail to do what they did in BW. they have to be forced into agreement here.
So proud of ESF for standing up for the KeSPA players and not caving in to KeSPA's compromises.
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It's a pretty savvy move by the ESF in my opinion. They know that, as of right now, they hold a stronger hand in this situation and so they've decided not to settle for a halfway compromise or one that looks like it could be dodged or interpreted in bad faith. It also seems like they realize that if they just take the easy way out now, they might end up in another dispute 6 months later but without anything like the leverage they have this time.
Good for them for recognizing the strength of their position.
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Ok I propose a solution:
Team Random monobattles on Monday. Winner rules the scene.
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51463 Posts
Quite depressing that ESF have to fight for the KeSPA players rights instead of them fighting for themselves.
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What a great news to wake up in the morning with! :D
Thank god ESF didn't fall for KeSPA's tricks.
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On August 25 2012 18:54 Master_Blaster wrote:
I think it's the best move.
OSL needs to prove that hey will play nice. They are the ones that need GSL right now. Not viceversa. Why would GSL players attend and help OSL grow, the federation that will be their doom. It's not smart. You need your enemy to make the first step into diplomacy here.
It's not OSL for crying out loud, it's KeSPA. How many times does this need to be made clear before you get it.
If anything, OSL is going to put pressure on KeSPA too, as it cannot be that after the group selection that was broadcasted on television, the tournament just doesn't proceed on forward. That would be devastating in many ways.
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looking at PL stream today wich I havnt watched my self viewer number were down noticably
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WooHoooO . YES ! im so happy just woke up and saw this . hope blizzard support ESF aswel !
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On August 25 2012 18:58 Kazuki wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 18:54 Master_Blaster wrote:
I think it's the best move.
OSL needs to prove that hey will play nice. They are the ones that need GSL right now. Not viceversa. Why would GSL players attend and help OSL grow, the federation that will be their doom. It's not smart. You need your enemy to make the first step into diplomacy here. It's not OSL for crying out loud, it's KeSPA. How many times does this need to be made clear before you get it. If anything, OSL is going to put pressure on KeSPA too, as it cannot be that after the group selection that was broadcasted on television, the tournament just doesn't proceed on forward. That would be devastating in many ways.
OSL would never let the MC Undertaker Moment go to waist! or Atleast I realy hope so
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I'm glad ESF has not surrendered their opposition after such a meager promise. I hope KeSPA comes around soon, for the good of all of us.
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On August 25 2012 18:57 GTR wrote:
Quite depressing that ESF have to fight for the KeSPA players rights instead of them fighting for themselves.
This. Bloody This.
It's kinda touching too. ;_;
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50185 Posts
On August 25 2012 18:54 Master_Blaster wrote:
I think it's the best move.
OSL needs to prove that hey will play nice. They are the ones that need GSL right now. Not viceversa. Why would GSL players attend and help OSL grow, the federation that will be their doom. It's not smart. You need your enemy to make the first step into diplomacy here.
OGN=/= KeSPA
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I love this move by ESF. They have to show KeSPA who deals the cards here.
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On August 25 2012 18:57 GTR wrote:
Quite depressing that ESF have to fight for the KeSPA players rights instead of them fighting for themselves.
Exactly what I was thinking...it does seem like that and is sad indeed.
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Dont let those bullies win Kespa. fuck those ESF dogs without honour.
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With all these turns and twists who should i root for, now?
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On August 25 2012 19:03 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 18:54 Master_Blaster wrote:
I think it's the best move.
OSL needs to prove that hey will play nice. They are the ones that need GSL right now. Not viceversa. Why would GSL players attend and help OSL grow, the federation that will be their doom. It's not smart. You need your enemy to make the first step into diplomacy here. OGN=/= KeSPA
From everything I've been told, they pretty much are, their interests are so tied together.
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On August 25 2012 18:57 GTR wrote:
Quite depressing that ESF have to fight for the KeSPA players rights instead of them fighting for themselves.
Thats the point in never understood in all the bw years.
They never even tried...
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Lol! Now the pressure is on 6NR to do the updates Maybe they can come up with a way that people can "co-own" threads or something
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i'm curious if any of the BW teams are tempted to drop Kespa and go to ESF
obviously there'd be a lot of complications but I can see it as tempting
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On August 25 2012 19:07 skeldark wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 18:57 GTR wrote:
Quite depressing that ESF have to fight for the KeSPA players rights instead of them fighting for themselves. Thats the point in never understood in all the bw years. They never even tried...
Hopefully they would wake up after some outside stimulus now. Everyone including the KeSPA players (not the organization though) will be better off if ESF wins.
On August 25 2012 19:08 Denzil wrote:
i'm curious if any of the BW teams are tempted to drop Kespa and go to ESF
obviously there'd be a lot of complications but I can see it as tempting
Not if that means losing their sponsors. Though, if the sponsors were fed up with not being able to participate in MLG say, then it might be possible. The only company I can realistically see for this to happen is Samsung. Unless, of course, that Korean fans were sufficient fed up with KeSPA as well.
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On August 25 2012 19:07 Weirdkid wrote:Lol! Now the pressure is on 6NR to do the updates Maybe they can come up with a way that people can "co-own" threads or something
Well he did say in the OP that updates will be added as the story develops xD.
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Good, they're keeping their interests at heart like they should be.
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On August 25 2012 19:08 Denzil wrote:
i'm curious if any of the BW teams are tempted to drop Kespa and go to ESF
obviously there'd be a lot of complications but I can see it as tempting
Wouldn't they lose all their sponsors?
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i am not a bw fan i came from wc3 and left sc2 for LoL but i still think ESF is in the right and should let kespa try and bully ppl as it did in sc1
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On August 25 2012 19:09 Nostalgia.NA wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 19:07 Weirdkid wrote:Lol! Now the pressure is on 6NR to do the updates Maybe they can come up with a way that people can "co-own" threads or something Well he did say in the OP that updates will be added as the story develops xD.
Pm GTR ,
that they lock the others threads and put the new one in community news.
Would make the hole thing more organized.
On the other hand, this way its easier to see the news in title...
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On August 25 2012 19:09 achan1058 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 19:07 skeldark wrote:On August 25 2012 18:57 GTR wrote:
Quite depressing that ESF have to fight for the KeSPA players rights instead of them fighting for themselves. Thats the point in never understood in all the bw years. They never even tried... Hopefully they would wake up after some outside stimulus now. Everyone including the KeSPA players (not the organization though) will be better off if ESF wins.
You just have to relate it to any occupation.. anyone with a job can understand that it is hard to go up against the "boss" or company, it is your livelihood at state... the only way to do it is through a union, no single player will stand up on their own, they risk too much.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50185 Posts
On August 25 2012 19:06 GuitarBizarre wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 19:03 BLinD-RawR wrote:On August 25 2012 18:54 Master_Blaster wrote:
I think it's the best move.
OSL needs to prove that hey will play nice. They are the ones that need GSL right now. Not viceversa. Why would GSL players attend and help OSL grow, the federation that will be their doom. It's not smart. You need your enemy to make the first step into diplomacy here. OGN=/= KeSPA From everything I've been told, they pretty much are, their interests are so tied together.
yes yes indeed it has to be, OGN is wants to let KeSPA destroy the starleague screw over the sponsors and the players so that they can solely focus on LoL!
its genius!
:/
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Makes sense since their wording was that they would not attend OSL until Kespa let their players join GSL, and since they won't allow them until season 5 then none ESF won't join OSL until season 5 starts.
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On August 25 2012 19:11 Zhalad wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 19:09 achan1058 wrote:On August 25 2012 19:07 skeldark wrote:On August 25 2012 18:57 GTR wrote:
Quite depressing that ESF have to fight for the KeSPA players rights instead of them fighting for themselves. Thats the point in never understood in all the bw years. They never even tried... Hopefully they would wake up after some outside stimulus now. Everyone including the KeSPA players (not the organization though) will be better off if ESF wins. You just have to relate it to any occupation.. anyone with a job can understand that it is hard to go up against the "boss" or company, it is your livelihood at state... the only way to do it is through a union, no single player will stand up on their own, they risk too much.
But now there's a union you can join, unlike in the past.
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Just let everyone play in whatever they want.... -_-;
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Nice Move ESF! Don't let Bully you around.
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On August 25 2012 18:10 Adreme wrote:
You know there is a 3rd reason beyond the two more likely ones as to why KESPA pulled out of GSL4. They might be doing it to screw with GOM or they might be doing it because they dont think they can win and they dont want there players destroyed or they could be doing it to use the only advantage they have in the OSL.
Right now GSL players are flying all over the world competing in different tournaments that use different maps and against different players while the KESPA players are preparing for the OSL. They might be thinking that if they have there players solely focused on beating there opponent than maybe can pull a few upsets and look good in this OSL as opposed to only getting 1 or 2 players thru.
But if you've read any interview the Kespa players actually want to participate in Code A qualifiers for GSL. But with Kespa being the big controlling parent they cant do anything. Kespa is making a dick move and suffocating their players and not letting them make their own decisions. Hell GSL players go play foreign tournaments come back and play in GSL 1-3 days later. Cut the leash already Kespa your excuses are pretty unprofessional and embarrassing.
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On August 25 2012 19:07 skeldark wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 18:57 GTR wrote:
Quite depressing that ESF have to fight for the KeSPA players rights instead of them fighting for themselves. Thats the point in never understood in all the bw years. They never even tried...
A few of them spoke out occasionally (so I heard?), and there is plenty of indication that they're quite widely unhappy about certain things.
It IS strange they haven't tried to fight. But it would have to be a heavy one, because half a team or something complaining would just be asking for KeSPA (or the team management, out of fear) to kick them or something.
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On August 25 2012 18:19 ProxyKnoxy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 18:13 RoieTRS wrote:
I don't get it... if esf players played in osl they would completely thrash kespa players. That was the entire point of kespa keeping their own sc2 proleague and not inviting anyone else yet. Kespa players have like a 60% win ratio vs ESF players, including vs the very top. There is no gap
Then why did HerO thrash reality and soulkey? there is a gap, but your obviously too blind to see it. GSL players were feeling alot more pressure than Kespa players did. And yet the top GSL protoss players made it a hell of alot farther in WCS than Kespa players.
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I feel so sorry for those choosing to stand by KeSPA on this one. KeSPA is obviously wrong and has previous history of misconduct. It's like you guys are only in for it for the sake of the argument or your own entertainment. Get your heads off your asses and start thinking.
I do not trust KeSPA one bit. Been around SC BW since 2002 and I've also known about TL.net since then. The only reason I registered later was because I felt like I had nothing to contribute back then and was happy just reading posts as a guest. Been following the Korean sceen for quite a long time now, with few months pauses in between. All I gotta say is that KeSPA needs to be disassembled for its previous crimes vs. eSports. Just to touch on that - remember the whole "rigged matches" scandal that involved Savior ? Well, post-factum it turned out that members of KeSPA had knew about it, before the investigation even began and did nothing to stop it, prevent it or alarm about it. That alone should turn off every KeSPA supporter off.
Yes, what ESF did and are doing is a dick move. But it's the only proper action in this case. What I've seen from KeSPA is only attempt to buy time until GSL S5. And I don't take their word for it that they'll participate in it. They have a history you know. Like pulling out NaDa in a middle of a freaking show match vs TSL at IEM. In the case of NaDa, they've also took down his history records from their site and claimed it was a technical failure. Obviously it wasn't, since there were no other players harmed. And they payed journalists to trash-talk about him, how he turned from a respectable progamer into prize-money hunter with his switch over to SC2. And then you have the fact that they act like they're God-like and refuse to allow foreign players in it. The cases of Ret and Nony are the recent ones on top of my head. One winning the fucking Courage, which is still considered far harder then winning an MLG or even a GSL, and yet being trown back as a lousy B-Teamer with little to no air time and no accomodations whatsoever. You think in the end we'll be seeing the likes Idra, Stephano, Kas and Huk over at the OSL with KeSPA running it ? No fucking way ! Or maybe EG at the ProLeague ? Hah ! Things there are so fucking complicated, it hurts my head just thinking about it. All that shit with the progamer license, all that other non-sense about that you HAVE to be on a team in order to play. And you do have to be on a KeSPA team, as far as I recall. So basically it's "join or die". All that talk that they'll accomodate players from the MLG into their tournaments is a silly talk that no one should believe in. That agreement they have had signed with the MLG was before the OSL and yet they failed to reschedule so that they can appear this weekend. And it's only a 3 day tournament, which I'm sure has a lot of fans and following in Korea as well. So yeah, fans would've understood if say the OSL disappeared for a week, to accomodate for the MLG. And I'm pretty sure Blizzard could've rescheduled the WCS dates as well, given that they have a quite good and sturdy partnership with MLG already. It could've-should've been a win-win situation, but ... that's KeSPA for you guys. The fact that they'll play in "online MLG matches" doesn't warm my heart and it shouldn't warm yours either. There's no way of telling if they actually play or they just put up some few B-Teamer to play as Flash or Bisu or Jaedong or Jangbi or Roro or Fantasy or whoeverthefuckyoucanthinkoff.
In the end - ESF must remain strong and firm in their position. Period.
In the meantime, someone should try get some statements from KeSPA owned players, so that they open your eyes even further more.
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On August 25 2012 19:20 MCXD wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 19:07 skeldark wrote:On August 25 2012 18:57 GTR wrote:
Quite depressing that ESF have to fight for the KeSPA players rights instead of them fighting for themselves. Thats the point in never understood in all the bw years. They never even tried... A few of them spoke out occasionally (so I heard?), and there is plenty of indication that they're quite widely unhappy about certain things. It IS strange they haven't tried to fight. But it would have to be a heavy one, because half a team or something complaining would just be asking for KeSPA (or the team management, out of fear) to kick them or something.
Yes, that was a problem because their was nothing else.
Play bw for kespa or dont play at all...
But it was way harder in the heavy industry of the early 1900 and still there was unions ^^
They could talk behind closed doors until they have enough known names together, to go public.
Anyway thats past.
You have to keep in mind that at the moment, no kespa player have an interested to switch.
The gom-teams are just not able to pay them equal salaries.
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Expected this. And i think it is the right move.
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On August 25 2012 18:31 boxman22 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 18:29 sAsImre wrote:On August 25 2012 18:27 boxman22 wrote:On August 25 2012 18:25 densha wrote:On August 25 2012 18:24 boxman22 wrote:On August 25 2012 18:19 ProxyKnoxy wrote:On August 25 2012 18:13 RoieTRS wrote:
I don't get it... if esf players played in osl they would completely thrash kespa players. That was the entire point of kespa keeping their own sc2 proleague and not inviting anyone else yet. Kespa players have like a 60% win ratio vs ESF players, including vs the very top. There is no gap BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHA Seriously look at the qualifiers... yesterday I looked through the first day's results. The only kespa player to win a game against a code B gsl player was Flash over Brown, and then he proceeded to lose to another code B player in Sniper. Here's the whole day 1 results where I noticed a Kespa player facing a GSL player: Hoejja 1-2 Harrier Flying 0-2 Brown Flash 2-0 Brown, Flash 1-2 Sniper Crazy-hydra 1-2 inori Bisu 0-2 Moon Fantasy 0-2 Pet Umm... those results are olde. You no watch WCS Korea? Since when have month old results not been significant? None of the players who played in WCS Korea played in the qualifiers, so we don't have any way to judge. Presumably Kespa picked the very BEST they have... Proleague results were used; when you don't know what you're talking about you should just shut up sometimes... Well then that proves my point entirely. Those are the very best SC2 players Kespa has. No one else holds a candle to even code B gsl players, as seen by the qualifiers.
And how bout Kespa players falling to Puzzle, Squirtle, Parting, HerO? Code B is a vast difference than Code B and there is a reason why they're code B. Because Code A qualifiers have been descibed as being just as hard as Code A because of all the competition. Then if you manage to make it through that gauntlet guess what you hit former Code S players in Code A brackets and other players that dominate Code A.
I'd honestly like to see how Kespa players do in the challenge that are Code A qualifiers. Because what your pretty much saying is that they can destroy in those and alot of people would say otherwise. Use some common sense next time before you make such a stupid statement.
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On August 25 2012 19:12 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 19:06 GuitarBizarre wrote:On August 25 2012 19:03 BLinD-RawR wrote:On August 25 2012 18:54 Master_Blaster wrote:
I think it's the best move.
OSL needs to prove that hey will play nice. They are the ones that need GSL right now. Not viceversa. Why would GSL players attend and help OSL grow, the federation that will be their doom. It's not smart. You need your enemy to make the first step into diplomacy here. OGN=/= KeSPA From everything I've been told, they pretty much are, their interests are so tied together. yes yes indeed it has to be, OGN is wants to let KeSPA destroy the starleague screw over the sponsors and the players so that they can solely focus on LoL! its genius! :/
Tbh, I wouldn't really mind if OGN goes full LoL and abandon SC2.
Their ratings have been diminishing for a looooooooooong while now if you check the TV ratings.
Their ratings are lower than a fucking televangelist's channel.
And sooner or later no one is gonna watch cable TV, let alone just TV.
And most areas in Korea don't have OGN by default, and even the ones that does, most people with the remote (hint hint the parents) just block the channel to make their kids focus on their studies.
MBC Game was pretty much available most of the time if you just connect the TV to the cable port.
And what happened to MBC Game now?
It turned into a shitty KPOP channel.
If that ain't the sign that a dedicated video game TV station isn't as influential in Korea as we assumed, then I don't know what is.
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On August 25 2012 19:27 skeldark wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 19:20 MCXD wrote:On August 25 2012 19:07 skeldark wrote:On August 25 2012 18:57 GTR wrote:
Quite depressing that ESF have to fight for the KeSPA players rights instead of them fighting for themselves. Thats the point in never understood in all the bw years. They never even tried... A few of them spoke out occasionally (so I heard?), and there is plenty of indication that they're quite widely unhappy about certain things. It IS strange they haven't tried to fight. But it would have to be a heavy one, because half a team or something complaining would just be asking for KeSPA (or the team management, out of fear) to kick them or something. Yes, that was a problem because their was nothing else. Play bw for kespa or dont play at all... But it was way harder in the heavy industry of the early 1900 and still there was unions ^^ They could talk behind closed doors until they have enough known names together, to go public. Anyway thats past. You have to keep in mind that at the moment, no kespa player have an interested to switch. The gom-teams are just not able to pay them equal salaries.
I think it has more to do with the trade block. ST was rich enough to buy Zenex, so they can probably afford some B-teamers, and I won't be surprised if LG-IM can as well. They won't pay Flash, but not even KeSPA can play FvJ 6 days a week.
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Glad to hear, not letting Kespa Bully them around, and trying to shove off ESF with "promises"
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51463 Posts
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
This is how we build trust.
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EPT
