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The venue looks so pretty
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On April 26 2012 01:04 Enzymatic wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 00:38 TheSir wrote:On April 26 2012 00:21 xtruder wrote:On April 25 2012 22:38 Odal wrote:On April 25 2012 20:12 KainiT wrote:On April 25 2012 19:39 TheSir wrote:On April 25 2012 17:29 Leijona wrote:On April 25 2012 15:50 seoul_kiM wrote:
Why do people still want to see players like TLO, NoNy, Grubby, and Idra play? They really fell off the radar... No, grubby is just getting better and better everyday. His days are surely ahead. (In sc2) yeah as a caster, as a player not anymore. +1 It is funny how people always think grubby is getting "better and better everyday". He had a very succesful wc3 past and had all the best training environment once he started to play sc2. He already had sponsors, an esports supporting environment, knew how to practice for esports etc. etc. He was best at the beginning of sc2 and is now getting worse. That is also because of his age which does not allow him to be among the progamer elite anymore due to physical reasons.I like Grubby just as much as everybody else, but there is just absolutely no reason to believe that he is getting better besides the casters saying it all the time. Casters say many stupid things unfortunately. wat. explain. Grubby's too old, reflexes get slower past the age of 24 or something. haha right, you got evidence/science at your side to back that up? Seems like a load of crap to me. http://www19.statcan.gc.ca/04/04_0708/04_0708_011-eng.htm![[image loading]](http://oi46.tinypic.com/2427hjp.jpg) As you can see, the average reaction time is lowest around the age of 17 for guys that are right-handed. Same with girls. That means, at the age of 17, you are going to have faster reaction speeds, and be all-around more alert. Statistics and stuff aside, it is generally known that most gamers are at their "prime" anywhere between 16-21 years old (with the peak being between 17-18 years old). This directly coincides with the reaction time chart above. Also, excerpt from: http://www.livestrong.com/article/442800-how-does-aging-affect-reaction-time/"After the late 20s, reaction times increase..." Meaning gamers that are late 20's or higher in age are generally at a disadvantage.
Sorry but without a source of that data, it's completely useless. It's doesn't even say what the test was. At least i cant find it there and seeing the data they probably tested reflexes which doesn't have a much impact on a game like starcraft.
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On April 26 2012 01:29 TheSir wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 01:04 Enzymatic wrote:On April 26 2012 00:38 TheSir wrote:On April 26 2012 00:21 xtruder wrote:On April 25 2012 22:38 Odal wrote:On April 25 2012 20:12 KainiT wrote:On April 25 2012 19:39 TheSir wrote:On April 25 2012 17:29 Leijona wrote:On April 25 2012 15:50 seoul_kiM wrote:
Why do people still want to see players like TLO, NoNy, Grubby, and Idra play? They really fell off the radar... No, grubby is just getting better and better everyday. His days are surely ahead. (In sc2) yeah as a caster, as a player not anymore. +1 It is funny how people always think grubby is getting "better and better everyday". He had a very succesful wc3 past and had all the best training environment once he started to play sc2. He already had sponsors, an esports supporting environment, knew how to practice for esports etc. etc. He was best at the beginning of sc2 and is now getting worse. That is also because of his age which does not allow him to be among the progamer elite anymore due to physical reasons.I like Grubby just as much as everybody else, but there is just absolutely no reason to believe that he is getting better besides the casters saying it all the time. Casters say many stupid things unfortunately. wat. explain. Grubby's too old, reflexes get slower past the age of 24 or something. haha right, you got evidence/science at your side to back that up? Seems like a load of crap to me. http://www19.statcan.gc.ca/04/04_0708/04_0708_011-eng.htmAs you can see, the average reaction time is lowest around the age of 17 for guys that are right-handed. Same with girls. That means, at the age of 17, you are going to have faster reaction speeds, and be all-around more alert. Statistics and stuff aside, it is generally known that most gamers are at their "prime" anywhere between 16-21 years old (with the peak being between 17-18 years old). This directly coincides with the reaction time chart above. Also, excerpt from: http://www.livestrong.com/article/442800-how-does-aging-affect-reaction-time/"After the late 20s, reaction times increase..." Meaning gamers that are late 20's or higher in age are generally at a disadvantage. Sorry but without a source of that data, it's completely useless. It's doesn't even say what the test was. At least i cant find it there and seeing the data they probably tested reflexes which doesn't have a much impact on a game like starcraft.
Huh? Reflexes are reflexes. And I put a link on top of the image of where I got it from.
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On April 26 2012 01:04 Enzymatic wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 00:38 TheSir wrote:On April 26 2012 00:21 xtruder wrote:On April 25 2012 22:38 Odal wrote:On April 25 2012 20:12 KainiT wrote:On April 25 2012 19:39 TheSir wrote:On April 25 2012 17:29 Leijona wrote:On April 25 2012 15:50 seoul_kiM wrote:
Why do people still want to see players like TLO, NoNy, Grubby, and Idra play? They really fell off the radar... No, grubby is just getting better and better everyday. His days are surely ahead. (In sc2) yeah as a caster, as a player not anymore. +1 It is funny how people always think grubby is getting "better and better everyday". He had a very succesful wc3 past and had all the best training environment once he started to play sc2. He already had sponsors, an esports supporting environment, knew how to practice for esports etc. etc. He was best at the beginning of sc2 and is now getting worse. That is also because of his age which does not allow him to be among the progamer elite anymore due to physical reasons.I like Grubby just as much as everybody else, but there is just absolutely no reason to believe that he is getting better besides the casters saying it all the time. Casters say many stupid things unfortunately. wat. explain. Grubby's too old, reflexes get slower past the age of 24 or something. haha right, you got evidence/science at your side to back that up? Seems like a load of crap to me. http://www19.statcan.gc.ca/04/04_0708/04_0708_011-eng.htmAs you can see, the average reaction time is lowest around the age of 17 for guys that are right-handed. Same with girls. That means, at the age of 17, you are going to have faster reaction speeds, and be all-around more alert. Statistics and stuff aside, it is generally known that most gamers are at their "prime" anywhere between 16-21 years old (with the peak being between 17-18 years old). This directly coincides with the reaction time chart above. Also, excerpt from: http://www.livestrong.com/article/442800-how-does-aging-affect-reaction-time/"After the late 20s, reaction times increase..." Meaning gamers that are late 20's or higher in age are generally at a disadvantage.
Especially if you are ambidextrous! Once you're 20 I think it is not safe to cross the street anymore..
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Haha someone must have told Red Bull that ESPORTS = EXTREME SPORTS or something!
So weird to see the energy drinks sponsoring esports.
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On April 26 2012 01:50 Enzymatic wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 01:29 TheSir wrote:On April 26 2012 01:04 Enzymatic wrote:On April 26 2012 00:38 TheSir wrote:On April 26 2012 00:21 xtruder wrote:On April 25 2012 22:38 Odal wrote:On April 25 2012 20:12 KainiT wrote:On April 25 2012 19:39 TheSir wrote:On April 25 2012 17:29 Leijona wrote:On April 25 2012 15:50 seoul_kiM wrote:
Why do people still want to see players like TLO, NoNy, Grubby, and Idra play? They really fell off the radar... No, grubby is just getting better and better everyday. His days are surely ahead. (In sc2) yeah as a caster, as a player not anymore. +1 It is funny how people always think grubby is getting "better and better everyday". He had a very succesful wc3 past and had all the best training environment once he started to play sc2. He already had sponsors, an esports supporting environment, knew how to practice for esports etc. etc. He was best at the beginning of sc2 and is now getting worse. That is also because of his age which does not allow him to be among the progamer elite anymore due to physical reasons.I like Grubby just as much as everybody else, but there is just absolutely no reason to believe that he is getting better besides the casters saying it all the time. Casters say many stupid things unfortunately. wat. explain. Grubby's too old, reflexes get slower past the age of 24 or something. haha right, you got evidence/science at your side to back that up? Seems like a load of crap to me. http://www19.statcan.gc.ca/04/04_0708/04_0708_011-eng.htmAs you can see, the average reaction time is lowest around the age of 17 for guys that are right-handed. Same with girls. That means, at the age of 17, you are going to have faster reaction speeds, and be all-around more alert. Statistics and stuff aside, it is generally known that most gamers are at their "prime" anywhere between 16-21 years old (with the peak being between 17-18 years old). This directly coincides with the reaction time chart above. Also, excerpt from: http://www.livestrong.com/article/442800-how-does-aging-affect-reaction-time/"After the late 20s, reaction times increase..." Meaning gamers that are late 20's or higher in age are generally at a disadvantage. Sorry but without a source of that data, it's completely useless. It's doesn't even say what the test was. At least i cant find it there and seeing the data they probably tested reflexes which doesn't have a much impact on a game like starcraft. Huh? Reflexes are reflexes. And I put a link on top of the image of where I got it from.
Reflexes are practically a null point when it comes to RTS IMO.
How often does that 0.1 second come into play? And how much of an impact does that make in the overall result of the game?
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Even if its true and legit, and all things could be derived from that, that would put the best gamers between 13 and 18...which we know is not the case. Reaction times are a single, meaningless, statistic, in a complex game. An older game will have access to more experience in with more games (or even more experience with the same game) and that alone could give them the edge. What about measures of cognition. While pure reaction time to a physical stimulus might be best int he realm of the teenager..What of ideas, thoughts, reacting to more complex situations? What of discipline most of us would agree comes with age?
That graph is of course assuming that everyone is simply a function of the average, which we know is not the case. While we do know and see that people's athleticism declines with age, we can find people who are above the average or expected age range in a competition, not only be competitive, but win.
Boiling everyone down to their age, and not only that, but boiling them down to how their age affects somethign as simple as reaction time...It's silly and it's a bit insulting.
There are olympians that win well into their 30s or even 40s, competing with younger individuals who, statistically, if we go by averages, they have no business competing with..But they do. Maybe its will, maybe its pure genetics, maybe its experience and maybe its luck, but you can't count someone out of anything because of age.
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Red Bull has almost as much goodwill as EA has badwill. It will be interesting to see what they will do with this.
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On April 26 2012 01:56 Tipany wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 01:50 Enzymatic wrote:On April 26 2012 01:29 TheSir wrote:On April 26 2012 01:04 Enzymatic wrote:On April 26 2012 00:38 TheSir wrote:On April 26 2012 00:21 xtruder wrote:On April 25 2012 22:38 Odal wrote:On April 25 2012 20:12 KainiT wrote:On April 25 2012 19:39 TheSir wrote:On April 25 2012 17:29 Leijona wrote:
[quote]
No, grubby is just getting better and better everyday. His days are surely ahead. (In sc2) yeah as a caster, as a player not anymore. +1 It is funny how people always think grubby is getting "better and better everyday". He had a very succesful wc3 past and had all the best training environment once he started to play sc2. He already had sponsors, an esports supporting environment, knew how to practice for esports etc. etc. He was best at the beginning of sc2 and is now getting worse. That is also because of his age which does not allow him to be among the progamer elite anymore due to physical reasons.I like Grubby just as much as everybody else, but there is just absolutely no reason to believe that he is getting better besides the casters saying it all the time. Casters say many stupid things unfortunately. wat. explain. Grubby's too old, reflexes get slower past the age of 24 or something. haha right, you got evidence/science at your side to back that up? Seems like a load of crap to me. http://www19.statcan.gc.ca/04/04_0708/04_0708_011-eng.htmAs you can see, the average reaction time is lowest around the age of 17 for guys that are right-handed. Same with girls. That means, at the age of 17, you are going to have faster reaction speeds, and be all-around more alert. Statistics and stuff aside, it is generally known that most gamers are at their "prime" anywhere between 16-21 years old (with the peak being between 17-18 years old). This directly coincides with the reaction time chart above. Also, excerpt from: http://www.livestrong.com/article/442800-how-does-aging-affect-reaction-time/"After the late 20s, reaction times increase..." Meaning gamers that are late 20's or higher in age are generally at a disadvantage. Sorry but without a source of that data, it's completely useless. It's doesn't even say what the test was. At least i cant find it there and seeing the data they probably tested reflexes which doesn't have a much impact on a game like starcraft. Huh? Reflexes are reflexes. And I put a link on top of the image of where I got it from. Reflexes are practically a null point when it comes to RTS IMO. How often does that 0.1 second come into play? And how much of an impact does that make in the overall result of the game?
My thought as well. I know there was a lot of talk about reflexes when I played Counter-Strike 7 years ago, and it made sence since you had to have a fast trigger finger when someone came around the corner.
Fast reflexed probably only come into play when doing things like dodging storms, and 0.1 seconds hardly makes a difference in damage received.
Multitasking is whats mather in RTS games.
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On April 26 2012 02:05 Kevan wrote:
Red Bull has almost as much goodwill as EA has badwill. It will be interesting to see what they will do with this.
I became a big supporter of red bull after watch the "art of flight"... Now this. Well done red bull you are truly after my own heart!
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Sweden33719 Posts
On April 26 2012 01:29 TheSir wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 01:04 Enzymatic wrote:On April 26 2012 00:38 TheSir wrote:On April 26 2012 00:21 xtruder wrote:On April 25 2012 22:38 Odal wrote:On April 25 2012 20:12 KainiT wrote:On April 25 2012 19:39 TheSir wrote:On April 25 2012 17:29 Leijona wrote:On April 25 2012 15:50 seoul_kiM wrote:
Why do people still want to see players like TLO, NoNy, Grubby, and Idra play? They really fell off the radar... No, grubby is just getting better and better everyday. His days are surely ahead. (In sc2) yeah as a caster, as a player not anymore. +1 It is funny how people always think grubby is getting "better and better everyday". He had a very succesful wc3 past and had all the best training environment once he started to play sc2. He already had sponsors, an esports supporting environment, knew how to practice for esports etc. etc. He was best at the beginning of sc2 and is now getting worse. That is also because of his age which does not allow him to be among the progamer elite anymore due to physical reasons.I like Grubby just as much as everybody else, but there is just absolutely no reason to believe that he is getting better besides the casters saying it all the time. Casters say many stupid things unfortunately. wat. explain. Grubby's too old, reflexes get slower past the age of 24 or something. haha right, you got evidence/science at your side to back that up? Seems like a load of crap to me. http://www19.statcan.gc.ca/04/04_0708/04_0708_011-eng.htmAs you can see, the average reaction time is lowest around the age of 17 for guys that are right-handed. Same with girls. That means, at the age of 17, you are going to have faster reaction speeds, and be all-around more alert. Statistics and stuff aside, it is generally known that most gamers are at their "prime" anywhere between 16-21 years old (with the peak being between 17-18 years old). This directly coincides with the reaction time chart above. Also, excerpt from: http://www.livestrong.com/article/442800-how-does-aging-affect-reaction-time/"After the late 20s, reaction times increase..." Meaning gamers that are late 20's or higher in age are generally at a disadvantage. Sorry but without a source of that data, it's completely useless. It's doesn't even say what the test was. At least i cant find it there and seeing the data they probably tested reflexes which doesn't have a much impact on a game like starcraft.
Doesn't even matter if it's correct, the difference is insanely insignifcant and easily made up for by the experience factor. You'd have to get way higher up in age before it was an actual factor.
The reason older players are at a disadvantage is motivation and burn out.
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Now you have to argue with Jinro. Your move, sir.
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On April 25 2012 02:51 archonOOid wrote:
Will a "real" american be invited?
ThorZain obviously.
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On April 26 2012 01:04 Enzymatic wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 00:38 TheSir wrote:On April 26 2012 00:21 xtruder wrote:On April 25 2012 22:38 Odal wrote:On April 25 2012 20:12 KainiT wrote:On April 25 2012 19:39 TheSir wrote:On April 25 2012 17:29 Leijona wrote:On April 25 2012 15:50 seoul_kiM wrote:
Why do people still want to see players like TLO, NoNy, Grubby, and Idra play? They really fell off the radar... No, grubby is just getting better and better everyday. His days are surely ahead. (In sc2) yeah as a caster, as a player not anymore. +1 It is funny how people always think grubby is getting "better and better everyday". He had a very succesful wc3 past and had all the best training environment once he started to play sc2. He already had sponsors, an esports supporting environment, knew how to practice for esports etc. etc. He was best at the beginning of sc2 and is now getting worse. That is also because of his age which does not allow him to be among the progamer elite anymore due to physical reasons.I like Grubby just as much as everybody else, but there is just absolutely no reason to believe that he is getting better besides the casters saying it all the time. Casters say many stupid things unfortunately. wat. explain. Grubby's too old, reflexes get slower past the age of 24 or something. haha right, you got evidence/science at your side to back that up? Seems like a load of crap to me. http://www19.statcan.gc.ca/04/04_0708/04_0708_011-eng.htmAs you can see, the average reaction time is lowest around the age of 17 for guys that are right-handed. Same with girls. That means, at the age of 17, you are going to have faster reaction speeds, and be all-around more alert. Statistics and stuff aside, it is generally known that most gamers are at their "prime" anywhere between 16-21 years old (with the peak being between 17-18 years old). This directly coincides with the reaction time chart above. Also, excerpt from: http://www.livestrong.com/article/442800-how-does-aging-affect-reaction-time/"After the late 20s, reaction times increase..." Meaning gamers that are late 20's or higher in age are generally at a disadvantage.
That chart is very misleading. You should at the very least have numbers shown stepwise until the age of 30 (35?). Doing this is especially important whent he article writes:
"Simple reaction time improves from childhood until the late 20s. After the late 20s, reaction times increase, but very slowly, until people reach their early fifties. As people reach their late sixties and seventies, reaction times increase markedly."
From that excerpt you should note:
1. Improval until the late 20s.
2. Very slow decrease from 30-50 years.
Furthermore, the validity of these numbers might be put into question when applied to gamers. Gamers actively train their reflexes while gaming, something that could alter their reflex-speed development.
edit: Forgot why I actually was gonna post, but fortunately Jinro more or less made the same point while I was bashing that study. There could be a ton of reason why older gamers generally tend to lose the edge. Hitting 30 years its time to consider starting a family or more actively taking care of the one you allready got going.
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JinrO, while I'm going to just go ahead and assume you're more knowledgeable than me on this subject, I wouldn't even say that burn out is as big as factor as changing life goals and requirements.
From ages 12-18, most gamers have *literally nothing else to worry about*. No bills, expenses, gf, wife, kids, education, nothing. The schooling in those years can be entirely "mailed-in", and you don't have a job or life concerns to worry about.
After that age, you need to seriously consider if gaming as a career is a better move than going to college or getting a normal job. Furthermore, you no longer have a built-in support system like you did as a child. If you want human compassion and company, you need to find someone who is ok with you gaming 10 hours a day, and willing to support you emotionally or even financially during these times.
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I would also love to see LosirA, he's been one of my favorite Zergs for a while but sadly fell(same thing happened to San). But ya I think the obvious choice is DRG.
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Reflexes are important but the huge spread in APM among top players illustrates that it's just one factor among many.
NesTea is 29 and just finished 3rd at IPL. Dealing with jet-lag definitely gets worth with age, that's probably a lot more important. But good planning and preparation can help with that.
Probably the biggest factor is that the older you get, the more of your focus you need to spend on things other than the game. Throw a wife and kids in there, and yeah, good luck to you.
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On April 26 2012 04:16 Crownlol wrote:
JinrO, while I'm going to just go ahead and assume you're more knowledgeable than me on this subject, I wouldn't even say that burn out is as big as factor as changing life goals and requirements.
From ages 12-18, most gamers have *literally nothing else to worry about*. No bills, expenses, gf, wife, kids, education, nothing. The schooling in those years can be entirely "mailed-in", and you don't have a job or life concerns to worry about.
After that age, you need to seriously consider if gaming as a career is a better move than going to college or getting a normal job. Furthermore, you no longer have a built-in support system like you did as a child. If you want human compassion and company, you need to find someone who is ok with you gaming 10 hours a day, and willing to support you emotionally or even financially during these times.
What you are describing could also be called burned out, or losing the passion or whatever. It is pretty much the same thing.
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On April 26 2012 04:42 Grend wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 04:16 Crownlol wrote:
JinrO, while I'm going to just go ahead and assume you're more knowledgeable than me on this subject, I wouldn't even say that burn out is as big as factor as changing life goals and requirements.
From ages 12-18, most gamers have *literally nothing else to worry about*. No bills, expenses, gf, wife, kids, education, nothing. The schooling in those years can be entirely "mailed-in", and you don't have a job or life concerns to worry about.
After that age, you need to seriously consider if gaming as a career is a better move than going to college or getting a normal job. Furthermore, you no longer have a built-in support system like you did as a child. If you want human compassion and company, you need to find someone who is ok with you gaming 10 hours a day, and willing to support you emotionally or even financially during these times.
What you are describing could also be called burned out, or losing the passion or whatever. It is pretty much the same thing.
Well, I assumed that "burn-out" deals with just losing passion. What I suggested was "fragmentation", not that they aren't passionate anymore, just that they have many other responsibilities.
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How did this age/reaction discussion happen, and what does it have to do with the event?
While we're talking about off-topic things, let me say that I think the term "offline" is inappropriate to use unless it really means offline. Starcraft 2 is always played online. The event is local instead of remote. I think even LAN is a better description than offline, even if it isn't that accurate.
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EPT
