In a recent interview with fragster Manuel 'Grubby' Schenkhuizen talks about his first weeks playing fulltime Starcraft 2 and his goals for the next three months.
Did your backgound in Warcraft 3 help you while learning SC2? And does SC2 really need that much macro and that little micro?
Grubby: Having gone through the process of learning how to become a better player at WC3, it's now helping me to apply the same techniques to my SC2 learning process. The games are fundamentally different, and each game rewards different techniques. Both micro and macro are important in both games, albeit in different ways.
...
In the first weeks of your SC2 career: Do you get a feeling of being an "underdog", a feeling you haven't had for a long time?
Grubby: Yes, I am indeed the underdog. When I play in a cup match and I meet a high rated Master Leaguer, I get all shaky. I'm not too frustrated when I lose, because I learn something new with every game.
When you are at the level to compete with the GSL players, could you imagine to participate in the GSL in Korea?
Grubby: Yeah, I could imagine that going to GSL would be something similar to when I spent three months in Korea in 2004 with my 4Kings homeboys. That would be very exciting. I think I know when I'll be ready to match myself with those guys. You can't go there, thinking you'll win the whole thing right away, anyway.
head over to fragster.de to read the full interview.
I think people like him acquired a certain skill to do well in rts games. I am pretty sure that he will be a top player in like 6 month. Best of luck for him.
Grubby interviews are always great as he has a very good english vocabulary and words himself extremely well most of the times. I will follow his process of becomming a better SC2 player with huge interest.
Also, Im kinda in the mood to add something more to this. Grubby was actually the very first player I saw that made my jaw completely drop. So, I started playing Wc3 in 2004, by then I knew nothing about the pro scene and was a complete noob like everyone are when they start out. By middle 2005 I started to recognize a bit more about the pro scene and all and the very first Wc3 Pro tournament I watched was Blizzcon in late 05, and guess who was the first guy I saw a game of? Yeah that's right. Grubby. He was up against Lucifer (Another guys I have a HUGE crush on) on Echo Isle, and since I had been playing for about 2 years, I thought I knew alteast some about the game already, but as I said, my jaw just DROPPED in awe. He played so freaking well that I can still remember the game in perfect detail. And since then, I've never let go. Grubby, I've been one of your fans for quite some time now. Ill support you in whatever you do.
Grubby: Oh man, is this question because of my replay against Kas on Metalopolis in the Beta? (smiles) I was just throwing down atomic funbombs left and right, while exploring the race. I played each race some, but right now I'm actually playing Protoss.
Woot! Glad to know he is playing Protoss. Hope he sticks with it. Hopefully he will kick some ass! Best of Luck in future tourneys. Would be awesome to see you in the GSL.
Both micro and macro are important in both games, albeit in different ways.
Can someone elaborate on this? I always feel these responses always lack that extra mile in detail ): Nice interview though
I've not really played wc3 1v1 in years, but I'd imagine it is because you have 1-3 "uber units" which you need to keep alive, level up and be very active using. Compared to sc where you generally just want lots of stuff and can throw some of it away if it can cause enough dmg(in wc3, this would as example help your opponent lvl his hero).
Liked the interview, bigger foreigner scene = good
What a fella, great personality. So unlike a lot of SC2 interviews around. Hope he does become something in SC2, it seems that he has the dedication and time.. Can't see any reason why he wouldn't.
I nearly beat Grubby in a custom FFA game back in ~2003, essentially my highlight of the time I played WC3, and since he's a fellow Dutchie I hope he can do well. Grubby is a really smart player, that both has good mechanics and an eye for small details to improve, so I think he may find success in Starcraft 2 if he sets his mind to it. Don't forget that Grubby was a lot better than people like DeMuslim or KiWiKaKi in WC3.
Grubby introduced me to esports... i remember being a noob at wc3 then learning about replays. I knew we had them in sc, but didn't know there were sites where pro players put replays up. Then i go and watch a grubby replay of him just totally dominating with 1 grunt and a farseer. MAN that changed my world.
I love watching him in sc2 win or lose. You can clearly see how much better hes getting day by day watching him compete in these cups. So awesome watching him explore and try his own builds.
grubby is extremely smart and a great ambassador for esports. his english is perfect. him becoming a top player in sc2 would benefit the game and community greatly.
So exciting to see Grubby playing SC2. When I took my hiatus from BW to play Orc in WC3 I watched every Grubby VOD I could get my hands on. Hopefully he proves as insightful and intelligent a SC2 player as he was WC3 player.
On January 31 2011 05:00 heishe wrote: I've been gone from WC3 for a long time now, but I'm still a Grubby fanboy at heart. I hope he does well (and posts on TL ).
On January 31 2011 05:01 0neder wrote: WC3 had a balance patch recently? I'm curious as to why so late in its life...
Why wouldnt it? Blizzard is known for supporting their games long before its release and it is actually an amazing game that deserves all attention from Blizzard that it gets (Although WOW and SC2 are kinda overshadowing it right now...)
Grubby kicked so much ass, i love that guy, serious mancrush. If he ever competes in GSL i demand that artosis and tasteless change their mancrush from Clide to Grubby!
Watching that vod that nazgul linked man... my mancrush just got serious. Such a great personality. Plus his creative play is inspiring. I'll always be a grubby fan regardless of how he does in sc2.
this is one guy i wouldnt want to play zerg because i think his full innovative potential can only be discovered with protoss and to a lesser extent terran
On January 31 2011 04:53 Kyandid wrote: grubby is the best progamer in the world.
I'll be cheering for him no matter what.
That's a bold thing to say on TL. :p
Haha yeah, what an enormous insult to SC:BW progamers. If it was any more of a direct insult, it'd certainly earn a ban.
It's not an insult, direct or not
What's your point? You're not convincing anyone by contradiction. Keep in mind that even if it's simultaneously something else, it's still insulting (enormously so).
On January 31 2011 04:28 blizzind wrote: grubby is extremely smart and a great ambassador for esports. his english is perfect. him becoming a top player in sc2 would benefit the game and community greatly.
Amen I've been a Grubby fan for many, MANY years, I hope him the best of luck in SC2. He is definitely one of the best personalities E-Sports has to offer. Manuel HWAITING! <3<3<3
@ Bagi - Couldn't have said it better myself. Much Thanks to Nazgul for bringing this to light! A must watch!
On January 31 2011 03:59 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Hope he does well. I like his attitude towards gaming and this industry in general.
Lol, Grubby's interviews are all so manner. Great interview. I hope he does make the switch to SC2, when he's ready of course. EG is going to be even more awesome pretty close in the future it looks like. :D
Grubby coming to SC2 makes me feel all nostalgic - for anyone who hasn't seen this, probably one of the greatest victories for a western pro-gamer; best scenes of the final game wcg 2008 (german commentary):
If Grubby commits to SC2 he will become big, I have no doubts about that.
On January 31 2011 04:53 Kyandid wrote: grubby is the best progamer in the world.
I'll be cheering for him no matter what.
That's a bold thing to say on TL. :p
Haha yeah, what an enormous insult to SC:BW progamers. If it was any more of a direct insult, it'd certainly earn a ban.
It's not an insult, direct or not
What's your point? You're not convincing anyone by contradiction. Keep in mind that even if it's simultaneously something else, it's still insulting (enormously so).
uhh I think you're over analyzing that comment. He probably didn't mean it as a insult to anyone. It was just a fanboyish cheer for his favourite progamer.
Like if I go: Canucks are the best!! Go Canucks!!
I'm not taking anything away from the other 29 teams in the NHL, certainly not trying to insult them.
Thanks for the interview and for linking the documentary, I never followed War3 but Grubby seems like a really nice guy, and I hope he's a bit more successful than what we've seen out of the other ex-War3 progamers so far
I can understand why someone would pick Grubby as the "best progamer". Although favorite is probably the better word in this context.
Even if you hate WC3, he was the best of the best in it. He was also a foreigner kicking ass in a game where they rarely excel. Flash can probably click his mouse alot faster than Grubby can, but its not important. The important thing is to have a guy you can relate to, maybe even look up to when you play your own game.
I will always cheer for Jinro over the MKP's and MVP's. Foreigners rule, and no foreigner has gotten as far as Grubby did.
The. Biggest. Fan. of this guy. I could spend hours and hours watching his games, traveling to tourneys he visited nearby, stay up all nights, calling/trying to hype friends to watch his big on-stage games.
I fear for my sleeping schedule if he gets into the SC2 scene.
On January 31 2011 05:56 sleepingdog wrote: Grubby coming to SC2 makes me feel all nostalgic - for anyone who hasn't seen this, probably one of the greatest victories for a western pro-gamer; best scenes of the final game wcg 2008 (german commentary):
I never played WC3 much, or followed the proscene of WC3. But I gained soo much respect from reading/watching the documentary and the interview. This guy has a great personality and seems like he'll do really well SC2.
Being hybrid player it would certainly be hard.. but i really hope he doesn't disappoint; there is a lot of hype around the guy and he has a really awesome personality/attitude towards gaming.. I hope he kicks ass but i am hesitant :/
On January 31 2011 04:53 Kyandid wrote: grubby is the best progamer in the world.
I'll be cheering for him no matter what.
That's a bold thing to say on TL. :p
Haha yeah, what an enormous insult to SC:BW progamers. If it was any more of a direct insult, it'd certainly earn a ban.
It's not an insult, direct or not
What's your point? You're not convincing anyone by contradiction. Keep in mind that even if it's simultaneously something else, it's still insulting (enormously so).
The "I'll be cheering for him no matter what" part should have tipped you off in regards to his blind fanboyism.
On January 31 2011 04:53 Kyandid wrote: grubby is the best progamer in the world.
I'll be cheering for him no matter what.
That's a bold thing to say on TL. :p
Haha yeah, what an enormous insult to SC:BW progamers. If it was any more of a direct insult, it'd certainly earn a ban.
It's not an insult, direct or not
What's your point? You're not convincing anyone by contradiction. Keep in mind that even if it's simultaneously something else, it's still insulting (enormously so).
You are taking his comment totally the wrong way, he's clearly a fan and meant no spite by it. Quite sad really if you find that insulting.
Back in 2003 I started playing W3 at a local LAN with friends from my 1st year of high school. Out of curiosity I looked for w3 replays on the internet, and I liked Grubby the most (even if he wasn't the greatest player at that time). His gameplay was so different from what we were playing at the lan (which was massing grunts/footmans for 10 minutes and right clicking in front of opponent's army, maybe casting a spell too). That next week was so much fun for me, having my little secret in Grubby's replays, and showing everyone new strategies :> That's when I got more interested in the pro scene and never looked back since then. I'm a huge fan of Grubby, met him live once, and I'll cheer for him in SC2 too.
Grubby is a bit coky saying that he is "the best WC3 player in history". Sure, he is the number 1 in a scene that died some years ago. Playing orc also is no great feat, even though he was one of the only who actually made orc good when it was such a shitty race to play.
Well I wish him great luck, but it will not be as easy as WC3, SC2 is another monster to handle in my opinion.
I have to add that I am an old night elf player and that I hate grubby, but as biased as my vision can be, Grubby obviously can do it, just look at player like Kas or Cruncher, who were never just touching grubby's level in WC3 doing so great in SC2.
On January 31 2011 06:13 Bagi wrote: I can understand why someone would pick Grubby as the "best progamer". Although favorite is probably the better word in this context.
Even if you hate WC3, he was the best of the best in it. He was also a foreigner kicking ass in a game where they rarely excel. Flash can probably click his mouse alot faster than Grubby can, but its not important. The important thing is to have a guy you can relate to, maybe even look up to when you play your own game.
I will always cheer for Jinro over the MKP's and MVP's. Foreigners rule, and no foreigner has gotten as far as Grubby did.
Flash can do quite a bit more than just click faster than this guy. Also, while what he did is certainly worthy of respect, keep in mind WC3 was no BW when it comes to competition.
I'm glad Nony caught up on that comment so I didn't have to.
On January 31 2011 07:49 WhiteDog wrote: Grubby is a bit coky saying that he is "the best WC3 player in history". Sure, he is the number 1 in a scene that died some years ago. Playing orc also is no great feat, even though he was one of the only who actually made orc good when it was such a shitty race to play.
Not that I have any idea about anything WC3-related, but I feel you skipped a word and changed the statement completely.
Grubby: "I nearly took my third gold at the WCG, instead getting silver, becoming the best WCG Warcraft 3 player in history, and still being the only Orc player who ever won a WCG."
On January 31 2011 07:49 WhiteDog wrote: Grubby is a bit coky saying that he is "the best WC3 player in history". Sure, he is the number 1 in a scene that died some years ago. Playing orc also is no great feat, even though he was one of the only who actually made orc good when it was such a shitty race to play.
Well I wish him great luck, but it will not be as easy as WC3, SC2 is another monster to handle in my opinion.
I have to add that I am an old night elf player and that I hate grubby, but as biased as my vision can be, Grubby obviously can do it, just look at player like Kas or Cruncher, who were never just touching grubby's level in WC3 doing so great in SC2.
Boy you sure did a really good job leaving out "WCG" in that sentence to make him seem like that. "becoming the best WCG Warcraft 3 player in history"
On January 31 2011 07:49 WhiteDog wrote: Grubby is a bit coky saying that he is "the best WC3 player in history". Sure, he is the number 1 in a scene that died some years ago. Playing orc also is no great feat, even though he was one of the only who actually made orc good when it was such a shitty race to play.
Well I wish him great luck, but it will not be as easy as WC3, SC2 is another monster to handle in my opinion.
I have to add that I am an old night elf player and that I hate grubby, but as biased as my vision can be, Grubby obviously can do it, just look at player like Kas or Cruncher, who were never just touching grubby's level in WC3 doing so great in SC2.
First off, he never said he was the best WC3 player in history, he said he nearly became that had he won his third WCG.
Secondly, he isn't #1 and hasn't been for quite a while. He was some years ago when competition was still fierce. He's been constantly top5 though.
Thirdly, last year orc got owned left right and center by elf. Whining about imba orc is so 2009 and it was inaccurate even then.
On January 31 2011 06:13 Bagi wrote: I can understand why someone would pick Grubby as the "best progamer". Although favorite is probably the better word in this context.
Even if you hate WC3, he was the best of the best in it. He was also a foreigner kicking ass in a game where they rarely excel. Flash can probably click his mouse alot faster than Grubby can, but its not important. The important thing is to have a guy you can relate to, maybe even look up to when you play your own game.
I will always cheer for Jinro over the MKP's and MVP's. Foreigners rule, and no foreigner has gotten as far as Grubby did.
Flash can do quite a bit more than just click faster than this guy. Also, while what he did is certainly worthy of respect, keep in mind WC3 was no BW when it comes to competition.
I'm glad Nony caught up on that comment so I didn't have to.
I was gonna write a long rant about SC:BW players and their silly superiority complex but I'm gonna say just one thing:
Haters gonna hate.
Grubby is a great guy who deserves all the love and support he gets.
On January 31 2011 04:53 Kyandid wrote: grubby is the best progamer in the world.
I'll be cheering for him no matter what.
That's a bold thing to say on TL. :p
Haha yeah, what an enormous insult to SC:BW progamers. If it was any more of a direct insult, it'd certainly earn a ban.
It's not an insult, direct or not
What's your point? You're not convincing anyone by contradiction. Keep in mind that even if it's simultaneously something else, it's still insulting (enormously so).
did i come off the wrong way or what
I really didn't mean it as an insult to absolutely anyone. It was just me supporting him (with blatantly subjective opinion) because he's my favourite progamer.
it wasn't meant to take anything away from anyone. grubby is just such a baller.
To be perfectly unbiased and honest, all the times I've seen Tyler post in ANY thread related to W3 all he does is troll. Just ignore him, I don't care if this post gets me in trouble, people need to stop responding to him just because he's "special".
On January 31 2011 04:53 Kyandid wrote: grubby is the best progamer in the world.
I'll be cheering for him no matter what.
That's a bold thing to say on TL. :p
Haha yeah, what an enormous insult to SC:BW progamers. If it was any more of a direct insult, it'd certainly earn a ban.
It's not an insult, direct or not
What's your point? You're not convincing anyone by contradiction. Keep in mind that even if it's simultaneously something else, it's still insulting (enormously so).
If I said Helen Fielding is the best writer ever nobody would have any reason to take offense. You'd have reason to think I was wrong, but I doubt the ghosts of great writers of the past would come haunt me because of the bald rudeness of my statement.
or if I said LeBron James was the best athlete in the world, it would be pretty inane to say that Adrian Peterson should be enormously insulted. The only people who would be insulted would be "football elitists" who think that football is inherently superior to basketball, but those people are assholes anyways.
On January 31 2011 12:35 acie wrote: or if I said LeBron James was the best athlete in the world, it would be pretty inane to say that Adrian Peterson should be enormously insulted. The only people who would be insulted would be "football elitists" who think that football is inherently superior to basketball, but those people are assholes anyways.
Try saying "LeBron James is the best athlete in the world" in the middle of a stadium during the world cup, see if no one is insulted. I don't think the poster who said that Grubby is the best progamer meant to be insulting. But this is TL...so it's sort of a bold thing to say here.
^ Its also a thread about grubby, so maybe its like saying LeBron James is the best athlete in the world during the olympics while watching the basketball (if it was an olympic sport). Bring on the analogys !
On January 31 2011 13:39 WAAA wrote: ^ Its also a thread about grubby, so maybe its like saying LeBron James is the best athlete in the world during the olympics while watching the basketball (if it was an olympic sport). Bring on the analogys !
It is like saying the best player (whoever that is) in the Finnish version of baseball (kind of like baseball but really quite far) is the best athlete in the world. In a baseball game.
a perfect start for a team house =) all 3 races represented
With Demuslim and IdrA to train with, I feel like Grubby should be able to catch up really fast. Also because SC2 still hasn't really evolved past the point of 2 base attacks - at least from everything I can tell all what happens beyond 2 bases is still pretty much freelancing with everyone trying out what works and what doesn't.
Even if me being a former orc and now protoss-player makes me insanely pro-Grubby-biased, I think protoss will really suit his playstyle. Moon struggles with zerg and to be honest I don't really get why he chose such a macro-heavy race. Toss on the other hand with its highly cost-efficient units should be better suited for a former wc3 player - considering we've seen very few wc3-players succesfully transitioning into sc2-zerg.
Never really got into the WC3 proscene (LOLBLADEMASTER), but I love this guy's attitude. He's stepping out of his comfort zone, taking on a new game, and admitting he's not as good at it as the old one. He's taking it as a learning experience, but still expecting that with practice, he'll be ready to rock with the best of the best. Seems like a pretty cool guy.
/wuv
EDIT: Also, don't everyone get your hopes up about him being Protoss. He said himself that it's kind of up in the air. Anything could happen.
On January 31 2011 04:53 Kyandid wrote: grubby is the best progamer in the world.
I'll be cheering for him no matter what.
That's a bold thing to say on TL. :p
Haha yeah, what an enormous insult to SC:BW progamers. If it was any more of a direct insult, it'd certainly earn a ban.
I know that Teamliquid is going to favor Starcraft over Warcraft, but I will reiterate a sentiment shown earlier in this thread: it is not insulting to prefer or respect Grubby over the top Starcraft players, any more than it is to say the same about Flash compared to the best of other games Flash does not play.
The hyperbole in the comment (comparing a progamer from one single RTS to every other game in existence) shows that it is not likely meant as a direct, rational statement but rather an expression of preference.
Tyler, I suspect your harsh reaction is a result of offense at a top Warcraft player being described as better than the top Broodwar gamers. Is this the case, and if not, would you mind describing your basis for referring to it as an insult? Coming from Warcraft III, I am surprised that preferring a WC3 player to an SC2 one would warrant me a ban.
Its impossible not to like Grubby but I really do have my doubts about him transitioning into sc2 well. More than all the other wc3 players that moved over I hope he succeeds, but its gonna be rough learning such a different game.
Grubby is such an amazing character, I really am hoping he blossoms into an amazing sc2 player. I will never forget his Wc3 play though. One of a kind.
that docu was very moving, couldn't help but laugh at the denglish sentences, just so typical :D
there was another docu about grubby and another player where they followed both players trough the preparations of a tournament, forgot what it was called but believe it was fully dutch with english subtitles
hope grubby does well, would be fun to see him practice with ret, teaming it up, doubledutch XD
On January 31 2011 04:53 Kyandid wrote: grubby is the best progamer in the world.
I'll be cheering for him no matter what.
That's a bold thing to say on TL. :p
Haha yeah, what an enormous insult to SC:BW progamers. If it was any more of a direct insult, it'd certainly earn a ban.
Uhm, why is it such an enormous insult? It's just his subjective opinion. Grubby and Moon are basically the Flash and Jaedong of WC3, but they have been top players since more or the less the game was new until today.
I wouldn't agree with him but I don't see how it's insulting or even an unreasonable comment in any way.
But it's so great that this guy takes a shot on SC2, I'll be cheering for him for sure.
wow, everybody loves grubby :D He's a great guy. I'd actually love to know his character code so I can follow his laddering progress. Anyway best of luck to Grubby hope you can make the Dutch scene prouder Ret + Grubby to the top! :D
On January 31 2011 23:16 Oxb wrote: wow, everybody loves grubby :D He's a great guy. I'd actually love to know his character code so I can follow his laddering progress. Anyway best of luck to Grubby hope you can make the Dutch scene prouder Ret + Grubby to the top! :D
On January 31 2011 04:53 Kyandid wrote: grubby is the best progamer in the world.
I'll be cheering for him no matter what.
That's a bold thing to say on TL. :p
Haha yeah, what an enormous insult to SC:BW progamers. If it was any more of a direct insult, it'd certainly earn a ban.
I know that Teamliquid is going to favor Starcraft over Warcraft, but I will reiterate a sentiment shown earlier in this thread: it is not insulting to prefer or respect Grubby over the top Starcraft players, any more than it is to say the same about Flash compared to the best of other games Flash does not play.
The hyperbole in the comment (comparing a progamer from one single RTS to every other game in existence) shows that it is not likely meant as a direct, rational statement but rather an expression of preference.
Tyler, I suspect your harsh reaction is a result of offense at a top Warcraft player being described as better than the top Broodwar gamers. Is this the case, and if not, would you mind describing your basis for referring to it as an insult? Coming from Warcraft III, I am surprised that preferring a WC3 player to an SC2 one would warrant me a ban.
Saying he's the best progamer in the world is completely different from saying he's your favourite progamer.
Flash has won everything there was to win last year, he was in every single final (and on top of that he saved Kal's life ;o). He has been the most dominant BW player ever, and BW is far more competitive than WC3, no offence. I'd go as far as saying qualifying for OSL is equally hard as winning major WC3 competitions.
You also have to consider how little time it took him to obtain his licence.
good luck to you, Grubby! we need more great players other than Korean ones. i mean there is nothing wrong with being Korean, but more diversity is what i ask for. European and American players need more games and more representative players.
On January 31 2011 04:53 Kyandid wrote: grubby is the best progamer in the world.
I'll be cheering for him no matter what.
That's a bold thing to say on TL. :p
Haha yeah, what an enormous insult to SC:BW progamers. If it was any more of a direct insult, it'd certainly earn a ban.
I know that Teamliquid is going to favor Starcraft over Warcraft, but I will reiterate a sentiment shown earlier in this thread: it is not insulting to prefer or respect Grubby over the top Starcraft players, any more than it is to say the same about Flash compared to the best of other games Flash does not play.
The hyperbole in the comment (comparing a progamer from one single RTS to every other game in existence) shows that it is not likely meant as a direct, rational statement but rather an expression of preference.
Tyler, I suspect your harsh reaction is a result of offense at a top Warcraft player being described as better than the top Broodwar gamers. Is this the case, and if not, would you mind describing your basis for referring to it as an insult? Coming from Warcraft III, I am surprised that preferring a WC3 player to an SC2 one would warrant me a ban.
Saying he's the best progamer in the world is completely different from saying he's your favourite progamer.
Flash has won everything there was to win last year, he was in every single final (and on top of that he saved Kal's life ;o). He has been the most dominant BW player ever, and BW is far more competitive than WC3, no offence. I'd go as far as saying qualifying for OSL is equally hard as winning major WC3 competitions.
You also have to consider how little time it took him to obtain his licence.
How can you say the game is more competitive then WC3? They are 2 different games, I didn't see any SC:BW pros switching over and dominating WC3 since it's "less" competitive. From what I've gathered most people who say its less competitive don't understand or haven't followed the game.
On January 31 2011 23:43 maybenexttime wrote: Saying he's the best progamer in the world is completely different from saying he's your favourite progamer.
No it isn't, it's the same thing. You got to realize that an opinion is an opinion, what makes someone the best progamer in his eyes isn't necessarily the thing that makes someone the best progamer in your eyes.
On January 31 2011 04:53 Kyandid wrote: grubby is the best progamer in the world.
I'll be cheering for him no matter what.
That's a bold thing to say on TL. :p
Haha yeah, what an enormous insult to SC:BW progamers. If it was any more of a direct insult, it'd certainly earn a ban.
I know that Teamliquid is going to favor Starcraft over Warcraft, but I will reiterate a sentiment shown earlier in this thread: it is not insulting to prefer or respect Grubby over the top Starcraft players, any more than it is to say the same about Flash compared to the best of other games Flash does not play.
The hyperbole in the comment (comparing a progamer from one single RTS to every other game in existence) shows that it is not likely meant as a direct, rational statement but rather an expression of preference.
Tyler, I suspect your harsh reaction is a result of offense at a top Warcraft player being described as better than the top Broodwar gamers. Is this the case, and if not, would you mind describing your basis for referring to it as an insult? Coming from Warcraft III, I am surprised that preferring a WC3 player to an SC2 one would warrant me a ban.
Saying he's the best progamer in the world is completely different from saying he's your favourite progamer.
Flash has won everything there was to win last year, he was in every single final (and on top of that he saved Kal's life ;o). He has been the most dominant BW player ever, and BW is far more competitive than WC3, no offence. I'd go as far as saying qualifying for OSL is equally hard as winning major WC3 competitions.
You also have to consider how little time it took him to obtain his licence.
Pretty sure Moon is the most successful pro gamer of all time. If not in accomplishments then money. Correct me if I'm wrong.
On January 31 2011 04:53 Kyandid wrote: grubby is the best progamer in the world.
I'll be cheering for him no matter what.
That's a bold thing to say on TL. :p
Haha yeah, what an enormous insult to SC:BW progamers. If it was any more of a direct insult, it'd certainly earn a ban.
I know that Teamliquid is going to favor Starcraft over Warcraft, but I will reiterate a sentiment shown earlier in this thread: it is not insulting to prefer or respect Grubby over the top Starcraft players, any more than it is to say the same about Flash compared to the best of other games Flash does not play.
The hyperbole in the comment (comparing a progamer from one single RTS to every other game in existence) shows that it is not likely meant as a direct, rational statement but rather an expression of preference.
Tyler, I suspect your harsh reaction is a result of offense at a top Warcraft player being described as better than the top Broodwar gamers. Is this the case, and if not, would you mind describing your basis for referring to it as an insult? Coming from Warcraft III, I am surprised that preferring a WC3 player to an SC2 one would warrant me a ban.
Saying he's the best progamer in the world is completely different from saying he's your favourite progamer.
Flash has won everything there was to win last year, he was in every single final (and on top of that he saved Kal's life ;o). He has been the most dominant BW player ever, and BW is far more competitive than WC3, no offence. I'd go as far as saying qualifying for OSL is equally hard as winning major WC3 competitions.
You also have to consider how little time it took him to obtain his licence.
Are you saying that Flash is the best progamer of all time!? OMGROFL! Results do not a progamer make... One year of dominance is like Bullshit compared to wat Grubby and Moon have achieved! While Flash may go on to become the best of all time, he certainly ain't anywhere near them yet! Flash was dominant on a year of Terran favored maps. Thats like JD during the season of the Swarm! If anything SaviOr who is truly Bonjwa was dominant at a time of totally unfavored maps.. So please dont call Flash the most dominant BW player ever lol! Atleast not yet. Also, its a commonly accepted fact that Oov was the most dominant player ever... If anything Grubby may be compared to NaDa! I'd say NaDa is prob the best progamer of all time.
You guys are still at this discussion, look at this nonsense Tyler sparked!
Flash has had his most dominant year in gaming, and thanks to that he's tying Jaedong's achievements, yet he's oh so goddly, people need to look at the record.
People also need to consider, while BW may be the hardest RTS etc etc, that fanbase resides mainly in KOREA. Warcraft3 was international, Grubby & Moon are by far the pro gamers with the most accolades, with the most international success and fame. I don't doubt if JD or Flash switched over they would be one of the best, but that is irrelevant!
On February 01 2011 00:06 nGBeast wrote: How can you say the game is more competitive then WC3? They are 2 different games, I didn't see any SC:BW pros switching over and dominating WC3 since it's "less" competitive. From what I've gathered most people who say its less competitive don't understand or haven't followed the game.
I also didn't see anybody switch from NBA to Squeegy Ball Tournament, and they're two different games.
On January 31 2011 23:43 maybenexttime wrote: Saying he's the best progamer in the world is completely different from saying he's your favourite progamer.
No it isn't, it's the same thing. You got to realize that an opinion is an opinion, what makes someone the best progamer in his eyes isn't necessarily the thing that makes someone the best progamer in your eyes.
Well, I guess I can call myself the best speedskater in the world too then!
On February 01 2011 00:23 rysecake wrote:
Pretty sure Moon is the most successful pro gamer of all time. If not in accomplishments then money. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Yeah, no, not in accomplishments. Especially considering how less competetive WC3 was and how many opportunities there were to win. I have no clue how much money he made, so I won't comment on that. I'm very skeptical about it. I mean, in both accounts we even have guys outside of BW like Fatal1ty. Who, by the way, I would say is easily more famous and succeful outside of Korea than Grubby.
On January 31 2011 07:49 WhiteDog wrote: Grubby is a bit coky saying that he is "the best WC3 player in history". Sure, he is the number 1 in a scene that died some years ago. Playing orc also is no great feat, even though he was one of the only who actually made orc good when it was such a shitty race to play.
Well I wish him great luck, but it will not be as easy as WC3, SC2 is another monster to handle in my opinion.
I have to add that I am an old night elf player and that I hate grubby, but as biased as my vision can be, Grubby obviously can do it, just look at player like Kas or Cruncher, who were never just touching grubby's level in WC3 doing so great in SC2.
First off, he never said he was the best WC3 player in history, he said he nearly became that had he won his third WCG.
Secondly, he isn't #1 and hasn't been for quite a while. He was some years ago when competition was still fierce. He's been constantly top5 though.
Thirdly, last year orc got owned left right and center by elf. Whining about imba orc is so 2009 and it was inaccurate even then.
I didn't see the WCG so my bad for that. "Whining about orc is so 2009", who care for a scene that is dead ? I am of course talking about the time when it was almost alive, with Moon still playing, insomnia and madfrog coming back for shadow league. A time where orc was all about blade master, with cookie cutter strat (allo raider so I can focus your hero), that don't even change with any match up. I'm sorry, this was a very sad time for Orc race, meta game and the WC3 scene in general. Grubby was actually a legend (for me) when he was like the only Orc with zacard that was actually owning. Everybody used to think that orc was bad at the time. My point is, there is a big hype about Grubby, but WC3 is no SC, that's just not the same, and thinking that Grubby will be good only because he have such history is bad.
I have always thought that the players who had the greatest succes in WC3 are the one that didn't leave the game and actually had the courage to stay in despite it's lower scene, it's imbalance and it's very random, sometime non-strategical game play (drop claw with blade master = good, drop armor ring = lolz sell for 75 $$$).
On January 31 2011 03:50 LittLeD wrote: Grubby interviews are always great as he has a very good english vocabulary and words himself extremely well most of the times. I will follow his process of becomming a better SC2 player with huge interest.
Also, Im kinda in the mood to add something more to this. Grubby was actually the very first player I saw that made my jaw completely drop. So, I started playing Wc3 in 2004, by then I knew nothing about the pro scene and was a complete noob like everyone are when they start out. By middle 2005 I started to recognize a bit more about the pro scene and all and the very first Wc3 Pro tournament I watched was Blizzcon in late 05, and guess who was the first guy I saw a game of? Yeah that's right. Grubby. He was up against Lucifer (Another guys I have a HUGE crush on) on Echo Isle, and since I had been playing for about 2 years, I thought I knew alteast some about the game already, but as I said, my jaw just DROPPED in awe. He played so freaking well that I can still remember the game in perfect detail. And since then, I've never let go. Grubby, I've been one of your fans for quite some time now. Ill support you in whatever you do.
Best of luck for the future Manuel.
I met him once
"In 2008 I was in Cologne, to watch the WCG grand finals in WC3. I wanted to cheer for Grubby and had a little poster on which I wrote “Grubby FTW”. At the player’s booth I met a nice girl (which made a photograph of me, later it turned out that she was Cassandra.) Before the semifinale Grubby vs. Hot started, the king of orcs was going into the audience to meet his fans. I saw the chance to meet my hero in person. He signed on the backside of my poster, I turned it around. He somehow recognized it and told me that he saw me on a picture. I just stared at him … the Blademaster himself is speaking to me! He thought I would not understand English and switched to German: “Ich habe dich im Internet gesehen”. Now I was completely baffled. Grubby speaks German …? I do not know if I said anything before I left the scene, at least I have his signature to prove I actually did meet him and that it was not a weird dream.
Before the finals, I added “2004 2008” on my poster. Grubby applied some pressure in the first game, destroyed some moon wells with raiders, but Moon was able to win nonetheless. Grubby however took the other two games home. In the last game, his Blademaster survived with just 2 HP and his Tauren Chieftain go to level 6.
Grubby was world champion, I witnessed it and even met him. YES!!!"
On January 31 2011 22:44 Bloodash wrote: that docu was very moving, couldn't help but laugh at the denglish sentences, just so typical :D
there was another docu about grubby and another player where they followed both players trough the preparations of a tournament, forgot what it was called but believe it was fully dutch with english subtitles
Probably "Beyond the game", featuring Grubby and Sky. (Moon and Nada have a brief appereance on the bonus DVD.)
On February 01 2011 00:06 nGBeast wrote: How can you say the game is more competitive then WC3? They are 2 different games, I didn't see any SC:BW pros switching over and dominating WC3 since it's "less" competitive. From what I've gathered most people who say its less competitive don't understand or haven't followed the game.
I also didn't see anybody switch from NBA to Squeegy Ball Tournament, and they're two different games.
On January 31 2011 23:43 maybenexttime wrote: Saying he's the best progamer in the world is completely different from saying he's your favourite progamer.
No it isn't, it's the same thing. You got to realize that an opinion is an opinion, what makes someone the best progamer in his eyes isn't necessarily the thing that makes someone the best progamer in your eyes.
Well, I guess I can call myself the best speedskater in the world too then!
Pretty sure Moon is the most successful pro gamer of all time. If not in accomplishments then money. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Yeah, no, not in accomplishments. Especially considering how less competetive WC3 was and how many opportunities there were to win. I have no clue how much money he made, so I won't comment on that. I'm very skeptical about it. I mean, in both accounts we even have guys outside of BW like Fatal1ty. Who, by the way, I would say is easily more famous and succeful outside of Korea than Grubby.
No way, Fatal1ty isn't that famous; he spreads himself across too many boring games. Kasperov himself has heard of Grubby. Just think about that.
On January 31 2011 07:49 WhiteDog wrote: Grubby is a bit coky saying that he is "the best WC3 player in history". Sure, he is the number 1 in a scene that died some years ago. Playing orc also is no great feat
On February 02 2011 22:12 link0 wrote: He seems like a great guy from the video interview.
He is.
He may be is actually the greatest progamer yet. Progamer status is not only judged by results. The korean SC pros live in their team practice houses with very professional coaches. Grubby for most parts manages himself (with help of his wife Cassandra now.)
The documentary "Beyond the game" by Dutch filmmaker Jos de Putter is up as a featured release in HD quality at over at eztv. Not that I would download anything illegally, of course, but someone less scrupulous might. Just sayin'.
It features mainly Grubby and Sky, but also Madfrog. It even has a few seconds of Tasteless! Really well made, actually. I think even someone not into e-sports could appreciate it.
On February 04 2011 07:20 Serthius wrote: The documentary "Beyond the game" by Dutch filmmaker Jos de Putter is up as a featured release in HD quality at over at eztv. Not that I would download anything illegally, of course, but someone less scrupulous might. Just sayin'.
On January 31 2011 22:44 Bloodash wrote: that docu was very moving, couldn't help but laugh at the denglish sentences, just so typical :D
there was another docu about grubby and another player where they followed both players trough the preparations of a tournament, forgot what it was called but believe it was fully dutch with english subtitles
Probably "Beyond the game", featuring Grubby and Sky. (Moon and Nada have a brief appereance on the bonus DVD.)
Somebody know where i can get the DVD "Beyond the Game"?
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/kZXuu.png)
).
seems like a nice guy. Didn't know much about him other than he was wc3
