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Hi, my name is Torte de Lini, I'm a 2,000 Zerg Diamond-player, but I feel this information may not be relevant for my question, anyways...
I have a community called the CSC to which a much more experienced member and I commentate and cast games for our community. Although him and I get a lot of matches done during certain events or in-house tournaments, we don't get to practice outside our group. He is much more experienced and comfortable than I in casting which leads me to the following question: Where can I go to practice streaming and commentating matches? I hope to improve in my ability to do so, but I am never quite sure where would be places I can freely join in; stream some games and try my hand at properly narrating a match.
I feel commentating, for me, plays a dual role: it helps with my ability to articulate and describe what I see (something that is quite useful for perhaps writing essays and such) and the ability to improvise and portray what you know (or don't know) about the match-ups, maps and units. I'm a Zerg player, but I am not very good at 1v1; by exposing myself to these games played by various players of various styles and various levels of gameplay, I can better understand each and every race and their capability or inabilities to do something (while at the same time, enjoying what I've recently tried my hand in; casting).
So this leaves me to ask Team Liquid and its members for suggestions or places I should start looking in order to better ability to narrate.
tl;dr: I want to get better at commentating, however I don't know where to go to practice, practice, practice
Thanks!
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Dammit, wrong forum. I think I meant the SC2 General Forum.
I'm very sorry! I got mixed up! Do I ask a mod to move it or do I just let it die and remake in the right forum?
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wow a thread with some seconds
PM a "small" caster on YT that has time to see the PM. xHydrax and AskJoshy are cool.
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What do you mean by a thread with some seconds?
What's YT?
I will do that! Thanks!
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Derp. of course. Sorry.
About this thread, how can I get it moved to the proper location?
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TBH, I don't think you can be good at analytical casting without being a good player. Although a lot of people seem to think otherwise for some unknown reason (please don't give analogies to a physical sport.)
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Something you could do is set up a stream on teamliquid. Then, find replays from high level players on websites like sc2rep.com and cast them on your stream.
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On January 09 2011 12:35 AndAgain wrote:
TBH, I don't think you can be good at analytical casting without being a good player. Although a lot of people seem to think otherwise for some unknown reason (please don't give analogies to a physical sport.)
Well I disagree to a certain extent. If you're completely clueless of all the races then perhaps you should experience the game before trying to give your thoughts or views on it during a regular match (naturally, right?). But you don't necessarily have to be world-renowned to be able to cast a match, you just have to have some form of competency to describe and understand what you're saying, the possible implicit strategy and the overview of the match.
Of course, the more you know, the more confident you'll be, the more insightful you'll sound and the more entertaining your casting will be during the match. So I guess I do agree and don't agree, it's all a question of perception I suppose.
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Thanks mod for moving this! Really and deeply appreciated!
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Do you mean casting with an audience?
Have you ever tried casting maybe a replay of yours or a friends, or even pros, and then listening to yourself? Since most people are their worst critics, would this be an efficient way to practice?
I don't cast, but I've always been interested, so sorry if this sounded dumb or slightly naive.
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Your welcome to join me casting if you want (I usually use Skype to co-cast with people who always wanted to try). Though finding games for us to co-cast might be a bit difficult!
To be honest, I am vastly repulsed by the way I sound, so often times my views and criticisms about myself are skewed or bias personally.
Yeah, I do mean casting with an audience and then they can give me feedback on what I should focus more on or what would they want to hear more of. This is how we did it in the community, but I need perhaps more public exposure (no idea why, but I get a bit nervous or I end up tripping over myself verbally and per chance contradicting myself).
I thoroughly enjoy co-casting too.
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On January 09 2011 12:35 AndAgain wrote:
TBH, I don't think you can be good at analytical casting without being a good player. Although a lot of people seem to think otherwise for some unknown reason (please don't give analogies to a physical sport.)
Huskey and HD probably 2 of the most popular casters aren't really great at the game. HD has been making his way to open tourneys to play which helps him get better, but you don't necessarily need to be great to cast, you just need to have a good casting voice, or good enthusiasm, etc. Now if you DO have great game knowledge, like Day9 or Artosis/Tasteless, then you'll be more relevant to better players, but most people aren't top tier diamond, they're just people passionate about the game, or who think it's fun to watch.
*edit* When I say popular, I mean on youtube. Obviously Artosis/Tasteless have a much bigger crowd watching them, and both of them and day9 are undoubtedly more respected and recognized as casters by the community, but HD and Husky have a ton of Youtube viewers, undeniably.
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Calgary25980 Posts
Lots of casters started out with a small following. This was my first commentary ever: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=57768
A lot of the bigger casters on TL just started joining tournaments and casting whichever games they could.
There isn't a clear path, you just have to consistently commentate games through livestream or put VODs up on Youtube. Those are really the only two ways to get feedback that I can think of.
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On January 09 2011 13:07 Chill wrote:Lots of casters started out with a small following. This was my first commentary ever: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=57768A lot of the bigger casters on TL just started joining tournaments and casting whichever games they could. There isn't a clear path, you just have to consistently commentate games through livestream or put VODs up on Youtube. Those are really the only two ways to get feedback that I can think of.
Thought you were going to close this thread ): Scared me for a second:
I can't view your cast (provided in the URL within that topic). Would have been fun to see!
Hm... I'll start with jumping in some small tournaments and going from there. Perhaps I'll do what the above stated and try some replays!
Thanks guys! I feel there are a lot of places I can try my hand in and improve.
Cheers
P.S: Just to clarify: I'm not looking to be popular or to compete with those really superb casters like Day [9] DjWheat, HD. But I would, if given the opportunity to cast some tournaments, like to be able to do cast without hitch or stuttering or narrative issues (finding you have nothing to say, misunderstanding a situation or a build order and completely looking ignorant, etc.).
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just start talking - reaplays and low tier cups - that hjow i did it
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I'm also rather curious about this topic. for those that are starting out what do people recommend for any extra software and hardware used for casting?
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Just watch replays, maybe starting at platinum and comment on everything you notice, without pausing. Then when you're done, notice what you've potentially missed. Record yourself and then watch it over, if you see you missed a certain drop, or some sweet micro (anything of importance really) then try again. Also, know that you can't just stop talking, it makes it awkward.
Try to get the right balance of mic sound and in-game sound.
If you're going to comment on progamers, get to know a bit of background info, or the latest news; because you need to talk as they're doing their basic opener (if they are of course) and it may get redundant to repeat the same opener over and over again.
But it's all been mentionned before 
Best of luck! 
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Pull up some replays and record yourself on how you initially think you should be shoutcasting. Listen/watch your recording (preffereably watch yourself either by starting a private stream channel, or purchase FRAPS a great capture tool) and catch yourself and be self critical on little mistakes you make or areas you can improve. I spent only a few replays taking this route and I felt comfortable, and I consider my casts to be fairly entertaining and informative. I try to teach what I know about the game at the same time as casting in between climactic moments. Just keep the flow going, and I highly recommend getting a co-caster.
EDIT: Forgot to mention - WATCH OTHER CASTERS! Not only like Tasteless and Artosis at the GSL but hit up JTV and Ustream, see how others do it. Find your OWN personality too. Too often do I hear other casters just rehash others and it brings no life to your stream and to you as a caster. Try to be an individual and just keep going and going. It will be akward at first but it really begins to be a comfortable activity after the first few. Especially if your watchers can mingle amongst one another WITHOUT you having to interact with them. Focus on the game, the chat comes second.
EDIT #2: Someone asked about hardware and technology you can use:
For streaming the Xsplit broadcaster is a fantastic all-in-one tool for your streaming, overlay, and media transitioning purposes. Check it out here http://www.xsplit.com/
For overlays, just search TL. Many people have made a program to track score, display maps and names, and have your logo displayed as well. I am working on one myself, should be up in a bit :D
For VOD's to youtube or something, you can utilize the features on ustream, JTV, livestream, ect... they all have export to YouTube options. However if you don't or CANT stream, get FRAPS! Best video capturing utility. There is a free version, but I suggest getting a license, it's a lifetime license so you'll never have to repurchase, and of course it auto prompts you when there are updates. Check it out here www.fraps.com
I think I have covered everything. When streaming, I use a dual screen setup so no junk is shown on my stream, which is a peve of mine I hate when streamers tabs to go browse the web or something it just seems unclean. But even if you can't do dual screen, play in fullscreen windowed so you can leave Sc2 maximized while browsing.
That's about it, if I think of anything else tip wise I'll edit this post.
EDIT #3: To gain some exposure, try getting in on some small free to play tournaments and cast them. www.z33k.com has daily tournaments you can get in on and cast if you'd like, just hit an admin up in IRC or message one in game so you can be setup with some players. There are tons of ways to improve your casting without having to risk bad publicity, or put yourself in a situation where people REALLY care. 
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There's been lot'sa good points so far - Two things that help me are having a goal for the cast, and a structure. For example:
Goal: My current video goals are to provide a mixture of information about player actions during the downtime (what they're building, why, the implications, etc) and provide high-excitement commentary during the fights. Information mixed with energy at the appropriate times.
Pre-game research
-Player ranks
-Strengths
-Other notable information
-Map, if you aren't familiar with it
First Minute
Introduce players and information gained from step 1, *quickly* review any fun facts about the map. I.E. Favors one type of play, etc. Again, if you don't know - that's stuff you can research. Try to stick with map tactics that are relevant to the races represented in the match you're casting.
Next Couple of Minutes: Spend a couple seconds outlining the current builds, but don't drone on about it. It's better to spend that time in the "speculation / tendency" mode. Viewers can see what they're building - it's your job to say where they could be going with it, and why. There's a balance you have to keep though - otherwise you're bore the audience, as if you're speculating 48 moves down the line on a chess game.
Moving Forward
By the time you've covered the initial builds (and implications), player background, map info, etc. - you should be in the parts of the game where the action starts. Here's where I usually bounce between game analysis / play-by-play, as the game action demands.
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In addition, listen to your own casts and try to pick out any "hang" or "spacing" words / phrases. These are things you may end up saying when you don't have anything else. Some of my old ones were "um", "definitely", "we'll have to see", "he's gonna go ahead and..." and a few others. Make it a point to watch for those phrases in your day-to-day goings-on, and stop yourself. Soon you'll start picking up on other people doing the same thing IRL, it's kinda humorous :D
Lastly, don't try to be super fast at the start. Get your speech down correctly, make sure you're in control of the words, and then let the excitement take you over.
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Hope this helps - like I said I'm not one of the most popular commentators, but I've been working super effin' hard to improve and so far this is what works for me.
Edit: For VODs, I use Fraps to capture the raw files, then Sony Vegas to compile. Vegas has a nasty memory leak however, so you could also use Adobe Premiere, or possibly even Camtasia (for rendering only!!!)
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EPT
