"2. Fact: Marines are too strong in the early game and not strong enough in the late game due to higher tech units."
lol? Marine's have to have a weakness, thank god it's higher tech. Ultralisks, Infestors, Colossi, High Templars, etc. These units were made to combat lower-tier units. The "FACT" that marines aren't strong enough in late game BECAUSE they get pwnd by higher tech units is preposterous. That's the core concept of "Higher Tech". It's not so a marine and a colossus have a fair fight, it's so the player who has spent their resources to advance his tech in the game gets to reap the benefits of that advanced tech, including making a massacre of marines.
The idea that Tier 3 units are better than Tier 1 units, and therefore require a buff, is incorrect. It isn't a "fact", and it is well off-base.
On December 12 2010 09:24 Exxo wrote: "2. Fact: Marines are too strong in the early game and not strong enough in the late game due to higher tech units."
lol? Marine's have to have a weakness, thank god it's higher tech. Ultralisks, Infestors, Colossi, High Templars, etc. These units were made to combat lower-tier units. The "FACT" that marines aren't strong enough in late game BECAUSE they get pwnd by higher tech units is preposterous. That's the core concept of "Higher Tech". It's not so a marine and a colossus have a fair fight, it's so the player who has spent their resources to advance his tech in the game gets to reap the benefits of that advanced tech, including making a massacre of marines.
The idea that Tier 3 units are better than Tier 1 units, and therefore require a buff, is incorrect. It isn't a "fact", and it is well off-base.
The problem is though, that there's only a teching reward for the protoss player, because the terran army comp is marines all the way through, only reason being that there isn't another unit that can be used as a main battle unit for terrans, short of thors and battlecruisers, which are WAY too expensive to be massed.
Terran players have to get marines, and are getting penalised for that by anti mass units like HTs and collossi
On December 12 2010 09:24 Exxo wrote: "2. Fact: Marines are too strong in the early game and not strong enough in the late game due to higher tech units."
lol? Marine's have to have a weakness, thank god it's higher tech. Ultralisks, Infestors, Colossi, High Templars, etc. These units were made to combat lower-tier units. The "FACT" that marines aren't strong enough in late game BECAUSE they get pwnd by higher tech units is preposterous. That's the core concept of "Higher Tech". It's not so a marine and a colossus have a fair fight, it's so the player who has spent their resources to advance his tech in the game gets to reap the benefits of that advanced tech, including making a massacre of marines.
The idea that Tier 3 units are better than Tier 1 units, and therefore require a buff, is incorrect. It isn't a "fact", and it is well off-base.
The problem is though, that there's only a teching reward for the protoss player, because the terran army comp is marines all the way through, only reason being that there isn't another unit that can be used as a main battle unit for terrans, short of thors and battlecruisers, which are WAY too expensive to be massed.
Terran players have to get marines, and are getting penalised for that by anti mass units like HTs and collossi
On December 07 2010 17:15 Zerokaiser wrote: I nicer approach would be to make maps where Zerg can get a spine crawler up before a 2rax all-in.
I think the map pool is more at fault than the marine. It's a fantastic unit, but let's get some bigger maps before we start fucking with the foundation of the terran arsenal.
If other's can hold it off with out a spine crawler, why can't you?
Because without a Spine Crawler it comes down entirely to a micro war, which means that a lot of Terran players are going to try an SCV/Marine all-in anyway, hoping that their opponents don't have good enough micro. And I don't want the game to be like that.
It's good enough if a 2rax opening forces a Zerg to be cautious, build lings, spend money on a Crawler. That way the opening pays for itself, without leading to super-fast games where either party loses immediately.
On December 12 2010 09:24 Exxo wrote: "2. Fact: Marines are too strong in the early game and not strong enough in the late game due to higher tech units."
lol? Marine's have to have a weakness, thank god it's higher tech. Ultralisks, Infestors, Colossi, High Templars, etc. These units were made to combat lower-tier units. The "FACT" that marines aren't strong enough in late game BECAUSE they get pwnd by higher tech units is preposterous. That's the core concept of "Higher Tech". It's not so a marine and a colossus have a fair fight, it's so the player who has spent their resources to advance his tech in the game gets to reap the benefits of that advanced tech, including making a massacre of marines.
The idea that Tier 3 units are better than Tier 1 units, and therefore require a buff, is incorrect. It isn't a "fact", and it is well off-base.
The problem is though, that there's only a teching reward for the protoss player, because the terran army comp is marines all the way through, only reason being that there isn't another unit that can be used as a main battle unit for terrans, short of thors and battlecruisers, which are WAY too expensive to be massed.
Terran players have to get marines, and are getting penalised for that by anti mass units like HTs and collossi
how about hellions or marauders
Or SCVs, or scans, or buildings, or Orbital Commands, or potentially expansions for additional gas revenue.
Terran has plenty of mineral dumps. It's just that marines are extremely good, so Terran generally chooses them.
And regarding Terran teching rewards, Medivacs are kind of a big deal, and fairly high on the tech tree. Once you have M&M&M, it takes very little additional investment to reach Battlecruisers (200/175) or Ghosts (150/50) or Thors (200/125) or Siege Tanks (150/125). Colossi or Templar are more expensive to unlock, and eat similarly monstrous quantities of gas.
I dont understand, making marines more useful in late game will 100% break the game completely. Terrans need to stop making 5-6-7-8 barracks all the time, SAVE SOME OF YOUR FUCKIGN MONEY FOR TECHING like every other race does. You DONT HAVE to all-in marine push everygame. Grab a fast factory, or a starport, dont forget you guys have flying dark templars, and siege tanks with more range than any-other ground based unit that ALSO HAS AREA EFFECT DAMAGE. Seriously this thread pisses me off, butt hurt terran like omg my marines aren't good against colossus wahh wahh. I can't believe people are trying to make a serious argument out of this.
Marines are best low tier unit, marauder is second best low tier unit, be happy. Thor's vikings siege tanks, banshee, those are all pretty fucking good high tier units as well, it's not like you have nothing to tech too. Stop basing your whole play on the fact that marines hard counter a lot of things. IF you keep making marines DUH NO SHIT the other guy is gonna get some high tech anti-marine units.
edit: and marine are still fuckign AWESOME in the late game, you just need to micro and protect them, they still own everyother tier1 unit, and they just massacre more expensive flying units liek mtuas or void rays. If anything should happen marines need a NERF. and a Late game nerf as well as terrans just keep making marines and need to be taught a lesson. The fact that MM play is still so powerful this far after launch honestly disgusts me. MM needs nerf not a late game boost, fucking A.
everyone in this thread is like omg mass this or mass that, ITS CALLED UNIT COMPOSITION, WORK ON IT, DIVERSIFY THERE ARE UNITS FOR TERRAN that dont start with the letters "MA"
On December 12 2010 09:24 Exxo wrote: "2. Fact: Marines are too strong in the early game and not strong enough in the late game due to higher tech units."
lol? Marine's have to have a weakness, thank god it's higher tech. Ultralisks, Infestors, Colossi, High Templars, etc. These units were made to combat lower-tier units. The "FACT" that marines aren't strong enough in late game BECAUSE they get pwnd by higher tech units is preposterous. That's the core concept of "Higher Tech". It's not so a marine and a colossus have a fair fight, it's so the player who has spent their resources to advance his tech in the game gets to reap the benefits of that advanced tech, including making a massacre of marines.
The idea that Tier 3 units are better than Tier 1 units, and therefore require a buff, is incorrect. It isn't a "fact", and it is well off-base.
The problem is though, that there's only a teching reward for the protoss player, because the terran army comp is marines all the way through, only reason being that there isn't another unit that can be used as a main battle unit for terrans, short of thors and battlecruisers, which are WAY too expensive to be massed.
Terran players have to get marines, and are getting penalised for that by anti mass units like HTs and collossi
how about hellions or marauders
Well there's nothing wrong with those choices, but you caan't mass hellions, or your opponent will just mass roaches/marauders/stalkers
same applies to marauders, you're opponent will just get mutas/void rays/banshees The reason so many terran players get marines is that they're good against everything, and they're massable. Most of the problems for marines can be avoided with good micro, you can't easily beat mass tank with mass hellion, or (especially) mass hellion vs mass void ray
I do see where you're coming from, OP, as I really do feel that the marine really supports every need the Terran has, but kinda evaporates late game. What I don't see though is why you are unable to split the role up more. For example, a (somewhat) balanced midgame protoss army consists of zealots,stalkers,sentries,and probably colossi (although perhaps HTs instead). Thats 4 units, while I've seen Terran still using solely MMM at this point. Maybe it's just me, but couldn't you take marines with the sole goal of being anti-air, or anti-mass, or whatnot?
No offense intended to Terran players, it just seems that there are unit compositions that could take it's place while mitigating the aoe weakness of the marines. Essentially, you'd be paying so that 3 storms don't ruin your day.
First off amazing post, I agree though I'm a newb to sc2 and don't know much. I do know enough to now that when I'm "trying" to play ladder games I get mowed down by a pack of marines and a small flock of scv's very often.
However, here is my odd opinion. I've felt from the start of Sc2 (I played in the beta, those of you that saw husky's beta key contest will know me as the thor kid haha) I feel like Blizzard is turning a blind eye to some obvious unbalances because of the expansions. Sure right now marines are slightly buff, but imagine if the lurker came back or perhaps another z or p unit that tips the scale back again. Perhaps we just have to deal with these small imperfections until the full trilogy is released?
On December 12 2010 09:24 Exxo wrote: "2. Fact: Marines are too strong in the early game and not strong enough in the late game due to higher tech units."
lol? Marine's have to have a weakness, thank god it's higher tech. Ultralisks, Infestors, Colossi, High Templars, etc. These units were made to combat lower-tier units. The "FACT" that marines aren't strong enough in late game BECAUSE they get pwnd by higher tech units is preposterous. That's the core concept of "Higher Tech". It's not so a marine and a colossus have a fair fight, it's so the player who has spent their resources to advance his tech in the game gets to reap the benefits of that advanced tech, including making a massacre of marines.
The idea that Tier 3 units are better than Tier 1 units, and therefore require a buff, is incorrect. It isn't a "fact", and it is well off-base.
The problem is though, that there's only a teching reward for the protoss player, because the terran army comp is marines all the way through, only reason being that there isn't another unit that can be used as a main battle unit for terrans, short of thors and battlecruisers, which are WAY too expensive to be massed.
Terran players have to get marines, and are getting penalised for that by anti mass units like HTs and collossi
how about hellions or marauders
Well there's nothing wrong with those choices, but you caan't mass hellions, or your opponent will just mass roaches/marauders/stalkers
same applies to marauders, you're opponent will just get mutas/void rays/banshees The reason so many terran players get marines is that they're good against everything, and they're massable. Most of the problems for marines can be avoided with good micro, you can't easily beat mass tank with mass hellion, or (especially) mass hellion vs mass void ray
What can Zerg/Protoss mass that's good against everything?
Oh wait, that's right, nothing is good against everything for those races... Nerf the marine.
On December 12 2010 12:38 TheGiftedApe wrote: I dont understand, making marines more useful in late game will 100% break the game completely. Terrans need to stop making 5-6-7-8 barracks all the time, SAVE SOME OF YOUR FUCKIGN MONEY FOR TECHING like every other race does. You DONT HAVE to all-in marine push everygame. Grab a fast factory, or a starport, dont forget you guys have flying dark templars, and siege tanks with more range than any-other ground based unit that ALSO HAS AREA EFFECT DAMAGE. Seriously this thread pisses me off, butt hurt terran like omg my marines aren't good against colossus wahh wahh. I can't believe people are trying to make a serious argument out of this.
Marines are best low tier unit, marauder is second best low tier unit, be happy. Thor's vikings siege tanks, banshee, those are all pretty fucking good high tier units as well, it's not like you have nothing to tech too. Stop basing your whole play on the fact that marines hard counter a lot of things. IF you keep making marines DUH NO SHIT the other guy is gonna get some high tech anti-marine units.
edit: and marine are still fuckign AWESOME in the late game, you just need to micro and protect them, they still own everyother tier1 unit, and they just massacre more expensive flying units liek mtuas or void rays. If anything should happen marines need a NERF. and a Late game nerf as well as terrans just keep making marines and need to be taught a lesson. The fact that MM play is still so powerful this far after launch honestly disgusts me. MM needs nerf not a late game boost, fucking A.
everyone in this thread is like omg mass this or mass that, ITS CALLED UNIT COMPOSITION, WORK ON IT, DIVERSIFY THERE ARE UNITS FOR TERRAN that dont start with the letters "MA"
tanks Costs 25 more gas/1 more food and ultra nerfed though... thors are kinda immobile for their function valks with 3x3matrix splash 48+8 up to 72 gone, so marines are needed to counter air
they'd need to get something buff on the mech and slight nerfs on the bio before people would favour mech over mass rines they can also start double ebays and 1/1 before any of those mech units come out... and they'd probably go for 3/3 in late game, and since they already have 3/3, it's more beneficial to get those already fully upped units at that point preferably if their opponent didn't keep up with upgrades mobility+hits air/ground
20 hits to kill mutas at 6dmg ( would always be 6 if they go +3 vs +3 17.1 hits at 7 ( would be 6 if they upped armor at some point ) 15 hits at 8 13.3 hits at 9
they nerfed the mobility of terran in for stronger mobile units ( +15 hp to marines at maximum ) they did lower the dps from 3.2 hits under "Faster" to 2.32 hits under "Faster"
psionic storm ultra nerfed, still works though on marines colossus kinda works, but they need psionic storm to kill vikings
takes time to get fungal to there's no lurkers to stop mass units and force them to get ravens or use scans
On December 12 2010 09:24 Exxo wrote: "2. Fact: Marines are too strong in the early game and not strong enough in the late game due to higher tech units."
lol? Marine's have to have a weakness, thank god it's higher tech. Ultralisks, Infestors, Colossi, High Templars, etc. These units were made to combat lower-tier units. The "FACT" that marines aren't strong enough in late game BECAUSE they get pwnd by higher tech units is preposterous. That's the core concept of "Higher Tech". It's not so a marine and a colossus have a fair fight, it's so the player who has spent their resources to advance his tech in the game gets to reap the benefits of that advanced tech, including making a massacre of marines. The idea that Tier 3 units are better than Tier 1 units, and therefore require a buff, is incorrect. It isn't a "fact", and it is well off-base.
and
On December 12 2010 12:38 TheGiftedApe wrote: I dont understand, making marines more useful in late game will 100% break the game completely. Terrans need to stop making 5-6-7-8 barracks all the time, SAVE SOME OF YOUR FUCKIGN MONEY FOR TECHING like every other race does. You DONT HAVE to all-in marine push everygame. Grab a fast factory, or a starport, dont forget you guys have flying dark templars, and siege tanks with more range than any-other ground based unit that ALSO HAS AREA EFFECT DAMAGE. Seriously this thread pisses me off, butt hurt terran like omg my marines aren't good against colossus wahh wahh. I can't believe people are trying to make a serious argument out of this.
Marines are best low tier unit, marauder is second best low tier unit, be happy. Thor's vikings siege tanks, banshee, those are all pretty fucking good high tier units as well, it's not like you have nothing to tech too. Stop basing your whole play on the fact that marines hard counter a lot of things. IF you keep making marines DUH NO SHIT the other guy is gonna get some high tech anti-marine units.
edit: and marine are still fuckign AWESOME in the late game, you just need to micro and protect them, they still own everyother tier1 unit, and they just massacre more expensive flying units liek mtuas or void rays. If anything should happen marines need a NERF. and a Late game nerf as well as terrans just keep making marines and need to be taught a lesson. The fact that MM play is still so powerful this far after launch honestly disgusts me. MM needs nerf not a late game boost, fucking A.
everyone in this thread is like omg mass this or mass that, ITS CALLED UNIT COMPOSITION, WORK ON IT, DIVERSIFY THERE ARE UNITS FOR TERRAN that dont start with the letters "MA"
I was stating that the marine was weak in the late game due to T3 tech that have AoE. Forget buffing or nerfing the marine for a second and look at the role of the marine. Look how much it does for the Terran army. The phrase "don't put your all your eggs in one basket" is exactly what the terran is forced to do -- make a single unit to do a bunch of jobs. You don't need that many baskets in the early game, but when the late game comes, there aren't any other baskets to put your eggs in.
The terran unit-composition is basically a bunch of specialized units that only work well when there are units supporting them. When you have specialized units supporting other specialized units, that forms a delicate balance where if one unit is removed, the whole thing collapses. This is why terrans choose to put that responsibility of staying alive and useful on the marine -- the one all-purpose unit the terran army has. Unfortunately, this unit isn't exactly easy to keep alive, especially in the late game.
It is clear that every unit has a counter in one form or another, rewording the fact that marines are too strong in the early game (lack of counters) and weak in the late game (a bunch of counters). Terrans don't have a T2 or T3 alternatives that can take on the responsibilities of the marine or help the marine with those responsibilities efficiently. How many thors, vikings, tanks, marauders, hellions, and production buildings do you need to replace the marine? How long would it take to replace the marine? How many bases do you need to defend and utilize to support that?
The marine is irreplaceable, making it invaluable in the early game where efficiency is the most important aspect of an army. However, that is a handicap in the late game where durability is the most important aspect.
On December 12 2010 09:24 Exxo wrote: "2. Fact: Marines are too strong in the early game and not strong enough in the late game due to higher tech units."
lol? Marine's have to have a weakness, thank god it's higher tech. Ultralisks, Infestors, Colossi, High Templars, etc. These units were made to combat lower-tier units. The "FACT" that marines aren't strong enough in late game BECAUSE they get pwnd by higher tech units is preposterous. That's the core concept of "Higher Tech". It's not so a marine and a colossus have a fair fight, it's so the player who has spent their resources to advance his tech in the game gets to reap the benefits of that advanced tech, including making a massacre of marines.
The idea that Tier 3 units are better than Tier 1 units, and therefore require a buff, is incorrect. It isn't a "fact", and it is well off-base.
The problem is though, that there's only a teching reward for the protoss player, because the terran army comp is marines all the way through, only reason being that there isn't another unit that can be used as a main battle unit for terrans, short of thors and battlecruisers, which are WAY too expensive to be massed.
Terran players have to get marines, and are getting penalised for that by anti mass units like HTs and collossi
how about hellions or marauders
Well there's nothing wrong with those choices, but you caan't mass hellions, or your opponent will just mass roaches/marauders/stalkers
same applies to marauders, you're opponent will just get mutas/void rays/banshees The reason so many terran players get marines is that they're good against everything, and they're massable. Most of the problems for marines can be avoided with good micro, you can't easily beat mass tank with mass hellion, or (especially) mass hellion vs mass void ray
What can Zerg/Protoss mass that's good against everything?
Oh wait, that's right, nothing is good against everything for those races... Nerf the marine.
Hellions and thors is clearly the root causes that almost every Terran game need a mass of marines. The Hellion who is the other mineral dump might be good at harassing but is horrible in a straight up fight except against zerglings and it cannot control space for tanks like vultures who clearly was a more interesting unit to play with and watch. The Thor can only battle light air, that was enough to replace marines against Zerg before the "magic box" but now it cannot function as reliable AA in any matchup.
In general I am pretty dissapointed by the Terran unit designs in Starcraft 2. Most feel like cheap copys of Starcraft 1 units and those that dont are highly situational or useless.
On December 12 2010 12:38 TheGiftedApe wrote: I dont understand, making marines more useful in late game will 100% break the game completely. Terrans need to stop making 5-6-7-8 barracks all the time, SAVE SOME OF YOUR FUCKIGN MONEY FOR TECHING like every other race does. You DONT HAVE to all-in marine push everygame. Grab a fast factory, or a starport, dont forget you guys have flying dark templars, and siege tanks with more range than any-other ground based unit that ALSO HAS AREA EFFECT DAMAGE. Seriously this thread pisses me off, butt hurt terran like omg my marines aren't good against colossus wahh wahh. I can't believe people are trying to make a serious argument out of this.
Marines are best low tier unit, marauder is second best low tier unit, be happy. Thor's vikings siege tanks, banshee, those are all pretty fucking good high tier units as well, it's not like you have nothing to tech too. Stop basing your whole play on the fact that marines hard counter a lot of things. IF you keep making marines DUH NO SHIT the other guy is gonna get some high tech anti-marine units.
edit: and marine are still fuckign AWESOME in the late game, you just need to micro and protect them, they still own everyother tier1 unit, and they just massacre more expensive flying units liek mtuas or void rays. If anything should happen marines need a NERF. and a Late game nerf as well as terrans just keep making marines and need to be taught a lesson. The fact that MM play is still so powerful this far after launch honestly disgusts me. MM needs nerf not a late game boost, fucking A.
everyone in this thread is like omg mass this or mass that, ITS CALLED UNIT COMPOSITION, WORK ON IT, DIVERSIFY THERE ARE UNITS FOR TERRAN that dont start with the letters "MA"
While I agree with you that terrans need to diversify more in some cases it cannot be done. Protoss do not exactly have alot of massable air units to choose from given their normal tech route. (ie getting the observer which makes them start out getting a robotics facility.) This forces most toss down relatively predictable tech paths when I fight them. Most of which do not require getting early air units. So you are relatively safe early on going light on the anti air and by the time their third or fourth is up if you decided to tech vikings or thors (even bcs assuming we are LATE in the game) can be all acceptable antiair should the toss transition into air units. All you need is something to fufill the mineral dump. Marauders and hellions (and vikings to an extent) all fufill this role. Transitioning into maruader viking would be a good transition after opening heavy rax. you give the starports the reactors the raxes had and build tech labs on the raxes and now all you need is to add a rave or 2 and you can extend the life of your vikings vs a typical toss airforce.
Against zerg its whole different story. If zerg players didn't know about the magic box that would be one thing. (If you haven't heard about it yet well then click here.) This was rediscovered as terrans were abusing mech a great deal vs zerg. The fact is once a spire is up (assuming you have the resources (minerals/gas/larva) for it) you can make as many mutas/corruptors/blords as you want. You can be going back and forth with a mech terran army all day but then when the zerg realizes that you've got very little anti air *boom* 25 mutas spawn and pop goes the terran army. Vikings are really the only unit that you can mineral dump into that can attack air but they get roflstomped by mutas (and corruptors to a degree).
On December 12 2010 12:40 NightHawk929 wrote: Well there's nothing wrong with those choices, but you caan't mass hellions, or your opponent will just mass roaches/marauders/stalkers
same applies to marauders, you're opponent will just get mutas/void rays/banshees The reason so many terran players get marines is that they're good against everything, and they're massable. Most of the problems for marines can be avoided with good micro, you can't easily beat mass tank with mass hellion, or (especially) mass hellion vs mass void ray
First of all, you need to realize that there is no unit that you can make that will win against everything. Thinking that lategame will be balanced only if terran can have a maxed army that can win against any type of maxed army from their opponent is a bit stupid really. Second, techswitching isnt always an option. Sure, in theory, if you make marauders, your opponent can just throw down 4 stargates, and begin massing void rays. In practice though, if he does that, you can just go and kill him.
The idea here would be to scout what your opponent is doing, and to transition accordingly, not to blindly transition into mass hellion, and get roflstomed because he went for void rays. Protoss doesnt make a huge colossus ball while thinking: Hey, if my opponent suddenly transitions into mass air, those coloxen are sure going to be useful, this army can deal with ANYTHING! Nope, they just think: Hes going mass infantry, thus I make coloxen.
Another thing is that what units act like on paper, isnt always how it plays out in-game. Marines are better than marauders against zealots on paper, but when faced with storm, its better to be kiting zealots with half-life marauders than to have twice the amount of dead marines.
Hellions dont get much credit, but they are surprisingly effective, as long as they are used correctly. Attack moved hellions are absolutely terrible at mostly anything. However, due to the splash, a hellion in melee range can deal up to 6 times the amount of damage later in the game. When attack moved, 40 hellions will lose to 32 stalkers (equal amounts of mineral), however, 40 hellions that are moved into melee range for a surround while attacking easily clean up that amount of stalkers if they are in a ball.
I don't agree on a buff for the marine. When you see a lategame PvT you a lot of times can see the protoss with about 5-6 different units while the terran has the usual MMM. And now you want to buff one of them "because our other units are only good for specifif situations"? That's ridiculous. If the problem is that terran has a lot of units for specific situations, broaden their situations of action. What's the logic behind "we have a unit that's good aggainst almost everything, the others aren't, so instead of changing the others let's buff this one, so we just need to mass them more.
Get grips, if other races have to mix units, so should you. If you are complaining about the importance of the role of the marine and that it needs to be buffed, perhaps you should think that other units should be buffed so they take over the marine. No one needs to play aggainst terrans having always only MMM in their army composition. Boring to watch and play.
@morimacil why do you even bother replying to someone that is arguing that he can't mass a unit because he will be countered? That's the kind of players we have posting here, seriously. No wonder so many ppl voted for a pro strategy only subforum.
Half the ppl in here are arguing that marines are good against everything, but can be countered in the lategame, so they need to be buffed to be good against everything all game long.
And the other half are arguing that they cant use units other than the marine, because other units cant win against everything, so other units should be buffed so terran can make an army that wins against everything without having to use marines.
Almost everyone is in here with the argument that terran should be able to blindly make a maxed army, and have it be awesome against anything their opponents does. They just dont seem to agree on if the unbeatable army should have to involve marines or not
Currently the reason of unbalance is that Terran and Protoss generally have games less then 25 minutes vs zerg where they don't lose in . Zerg's versatality peaks in late game . The marine is the only GTA unit terran's have apart from thors , but mass thors have their counters to like mass speedling. In general I dislike the current game balance it is WC 3 tft all over again . Like certain races have big adventages on some parts on the game and when the game goes on those adventages fade . I think BW wasn't like that , and it would be awesome if blizzard can make SC 2 surpass BW , since at current time I prefer WC 3 tft still over SC 2 since it is more fun to play a game were units have unbalanced stuff at certain moments with hero's . This is also why WC 3 with upgraded graphics and a bit more balance tweaking around one particular match up ( orc vs undead ) will surpass SC 2 by balance by a lot . I mean u had a whole different triangle of armored . I tought u had light armor medium armor heavy armor fortified armor , with all their counters , fortified had buildings since in general it makes more sense that towers ( wich actually were towers instead of a crappy cannon or tentacle ) have a lot of armor . I don't like it that they only made non armored and armored in SC 2 . Since it is obvious a Thor or immortal haves waaay more armor then a stalker does. You also had mellee attacks piercing attacks hero attacks magic attacks in WC 3 . So in general what blizzard needed to do is add more types of armor .
EPT
