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Active: 1394 users

Top 200 NA 11.29.2010

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
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oZii
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1198 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-29 21:06:31
November 29 2010 20:54 GMT
#1
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/1239839

This is North America Top 200 I forgot to add NA in the Title sorry

Top 10 11.29.2010

W L
1 PiQLiQ 1314 1029
2 Katari 1260 772
3 TTOne 641 373
4 Cheese 405 242
5 BrokenRhythm 940 757
6 ZpuX 169 96
7 Kowi 750 589
8 dde 349 244
9 ROOTdrewbie 291 143
10 ROOTqxc 347 140


I have seen PiQLiQ on Mini's stream always epic battles



Previous Top 200 NA
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=171012

Top 10 11.22.2010

W L
1 Katari 1168 711
2 TTOne 617 358
3 SeleCT 551 211
4 AlLaboUtyOu 673 471
5 Cheese 392 236
6 MasterAsia 362 233
7 Boyardee 378 202
8 ViBE 338 224
9 Gretorp 343 235
10 InflowMini 998 841





Total Race Distribution

Terran - 85 (No Change)

Zerg - 53(Down from 59)

Protoss - 51(Up from 46)

Random - 11(Up from 10)

MOD I forgot to add NA in the Title if a Mod could edit that please.
Ryusei-R1
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States2106 Posts
November 29 2010 20:56 GMT
#2
Awwww yeah, Piqliq hwaiting. That guy's strategies are so whack, I love it.
Jaedong plz
Sfydjklm
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
United States9218 Posts
November 29 2010 20:56 GMT
#3
piqliq proves that having more then 1 base is not a requirement to top the ladder.
twitter.com/therealdhalism | "Trying out Z = lots of losses vs inferior players until you figure out how to do it well (if it even works)."- Liquid'Tyler
Excalibur_Z
Profile Joined October 2002
United States12235 Posts
November 29 2010 20:58 GMT
#4
Associated links:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=169830 (updated with today's Top 200 snapshot)

http://sc2ranks.com/masters

Looks like PiQLiQ massgamed in the past couple of days to reach #1. Good for him =)

Moderator
Philip2110
Profile Joined April 2010
Scotland798 Posts
November 29 2010 20:58 GMT
#5
Much change on the Toss/Zerg/Terran numbers?
Master Sc2 - Diamond LoL - Eu W
Merano
Profile Joined January 2008
Austria105 Posts
November 29 2010 20:59 GMT
#6
there is a "live" version of the US Top 200:

http://sc2ranks.com/masters/
s.a.y
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Croatia3840 Posts
November 29 2010 21:03 GMT
#7
On November 30 2010 05:58 Excalibur_Z wrote:
Associated links:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=169830 (updated with today's Top 200 snapshot)

http://sc2ranks.com/masters

Looks like PiQLiQ massgamed in the past couple of days to reach #1. Good for him =)



can you make a similar calculation for EU server?
I am not good with quotes
oZii
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1198 Posts
November 29 2010 21:03 GMT
#8
On November 30 2010 05:58 Philip2110 wrote:
Much change on the Toss/Zerg/Terran numbers?



I just updated with total race distribution
LambtrOn
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States671 Posts
November 29 2010 21:07 GMT
#9
Isn't piqliq pretty bad mannered? I'm not sure if it was him, but I think I remember him playing kawaii on the ladder where he won and said something like "back to bronze". I don't think top players have a lot of respect for him.
rsvp
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States2266 Posts
November 29 2010 21:10 GMT
#10
On November 30 2010 06:07 LambtrOn wrote:
Isn't piqliq pretty bad mannered? I'm not sure if it was him, but I think I remember him playing kawaii on the ladder where he won and said something like "back to bronze". I don't think top players have a lot of respect for him.


Piqliq is a fun guy to play against and he often goes for crazy strats, but yea he's not very mannered... I played a game with him where I paused the game and he unpaused without saying anything
CruelZeratul
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany4588 Posts
November 29 2010 21:11 GMT
#11
29. EGiNcontroL, new Korean powers?
Tyler still not number one btw
PhiliBiRD
Profile Joined November 2009
United States2643 Posts
November 29 2010 21:15 GMT
#12
On November 30 2010 06:07 LambtrOn wrote:
Isn't piqliq pretty bad mannered? I'm not sure if it was him, but I think I remember him playing kawaii on the ladder where he won and said something like "back to bronze". I don't think top players have a lot of respect for him.


alot of ppl are pretty bad mannered, this apparently is ok.
mcleod
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada350 Posts
November 29 2010 21:16 GMT
#13
On November 30 2010 05:54 oZii wrote:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/1239839

This is North America Top 200 I forgot to add NA in the Title sorry

Top 10 11.29.2010

Show nested quote +
W L
1 PiQLiQ 1314 1029
2 Katari 1260 772
3 TTOne 641 373
4 Cheese 405 242
5 BrokenRhythm 940 757
6 ZpuX 169 96
7 Kowi 750 589
8 dde 349 244
9 ROOTdrewbie 291 143
10 ROOTqxc 347 140


I have seen PiQLiQ on Mini's stream always epic battles



Previous Top 200 NA
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=171012

Top 10 11.22.2010

Show nested quote +
W L
1 Katari 1168 711
2 TTOne 617 358
3 SeleCT 551 211
4 AlLaboUtyOu 673 471
5 Cheese 392 236
6 MasterAsia 362 233
7 Boyardee 378 202
8 ViBE 338 224
9 Gretorp 343 235
10 InflowMini 998 841





Total Race Distribution

Terran - 85 (No Change)

Zerg - 53(Down from 59)

Protoss - 51(Up from 46)

Random - 11(Up from 10)

MOD I forgot to add NA in the Title if a Mod could edit that please.

Piqliq #1

lol and this is why ladder means nothing

he's an ok player , but literally cheeses every single game and when i say "cheeses" i dont mean strong 1 base play, i mean he either goes cannon rush/DT/mass void ray



Whiplash
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States2928 Posts
November 29 2010 21:17 GMT
#14
Rank 136 wooh ^^ moving on up!
Cinematographer / Steadicam Operator. Former Starcraft commentator/player
Ezze
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada934 Posts
November 29 2010 21:19 GMT
#15
Except he's mostly playing Terran now from the looks of it. Mini was saying that he's like 2-40 against him. The only Terran he can almost never beat.
Deleted User 47542
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
1484 Posts
November 29 2010 21:21 GMT
#16
On November 30 2010 06:16 mcleod wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2010 05:54 oZii wrote:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/1239839

This is North America Top 200 I forgot to add NA in the Title sorry

Top 10 11.29.2010

W L
1 PiQLiQ 1314 1029
2 Katari 1260 772
3 TTOne 641 373
4 Cheese 405 242
5 BrokenRhythm 940 757
6 ZpuX 169 96
7 Kowi 750 589
8 dde 349 244
9 ROOTdrewbie 291 143
10 ROOTqxc 347 140


I have seen PiQLiQ on Mini's stream always epic battles



Previous Top 200 NA
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=171012

Top 10 11.22.2010

W L
1 Katari 1168 711
2 TTOne 617 358
3 SeleCT 551 211
4 AlLaboUtyOu 673 471
5 Cheese 392 236
6 MasterAsia 362 233
7 Boyardee 378 202
8 ViBE 338 224
9 Gretorp 343 235
10 InflowMini 998 841





Total Race Distribution

Terran - 85 (No Change)

Zerg - 53(Down from 59)

Protoss - 51(Up from 46)

Random - 11(Up from 10)

MOD I forgot to add NA in the Title if a Mod could edit that please.

Piqliq #1

lol and this is why ladder means nothing

he's an ok player , but literally cheeses every single game and when i say "cheeses" i dont mean strong 1 base play, i mean he either goes cannon rush/DT/mass void ray




He seems pretty solid, I watched some of his TvP's and he had great tech switches/micro. If people that high in the ladder lose to cannon rush/DT/void rays constantly, then that's pretty sad.

Yay I moved up to 68 from 100ish playing about 5 ladder games.
mcleod
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada350 Posts
November 29 2010 21:24 GMT
#17
Ya well maybe i spoke to soon then
Ive only played him as P probably 20 times or so
I cant speak for his T
Sfydjklm
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
United States9218 Posts
November 29 2010 21:34 GMT
#18
On November 30 2010 06:24 mcleod wrote:
Ya well maybe i spoke to soon then
Ive only played him as P probably 20 times or so
I cant speak for his T

his TvZ is something like mass blueflame hellions and attack when muta pops, then proceed to die.
twitter.com/therealdhalism | "Trying out Z = lots of losses vs inferior players until you figure out how to do it well (if it even works)."- Liquid'Tyler
jamesr12
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1549 Posts
November 29 2010 21:41 GMT
#19
I love people saying the number one person on the ladder is bad. Maybe he isnt going to be the next GSL winner, but he clearly isnt "bad." Stop hating and go play.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=306479
Sfydjklm
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
United States9218 Posts
November 29 2010 21:44 GMT
#20
On November 30 2010 06:41 jamesr12 wrote:
I love people saying the number one person on the ladder is bad. Maybe he isnt going to be the next GSL winner, but he clearly isnt "bad." Stop hating and go play.

he's very good at cannon rushing and building voidrays i give u that.
twitter.com/therealdhalism | "Trying out Z = lots of losses vs inferior players until you figure out how to do it well (if it even works)."- Liquid'Tyler
Ezze
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada934 Posts
November 29 2010 21:47 GMT
#21
He is playing Terran now. They don't have cannons or void rays.
Sfydjklm
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
United States9218 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-29 21:51:08
November 29 2010 21:49 GMT
#22
On November 30 2010 06:47 Ezze wrote:
He is playing Terran now. They don't have cannons or void rays.

he didnt get up the ladder by playing terran so that's irrelevant:D
allright im done hating ><b
twitter.com/therealdhalism | "Trying out Z = lots of losses vs inferior players until you figure out how to do it well (if it even works)."- Liquid'Tyler
tsuxiit
Profile Joined July 2010
1305 Posts
November 29 2010 21:52 GMT
#23
...how did PiQLiQ (or DiQLiQ) get number 1? I don't mean to bash him but every stream game I've watched of him involves DTs and/or cannons and/or mass VR with really weak follow-ups if it fails. Never gg's either.
yarkO
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Canada810 Posts
November 29 2010 21:53 GMT
#24
Seen many games where Minigun ragequits vs mass cloak Banshee + mass Viking vs PiQliQ lol
When you are prepared, there's no such thing as pressure.
Alou
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States3748 Posts
November 29 2010 21:53 GMT
#25
On November 30 2010 06:49 Sfydjklm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2010 06:47 Ezze wrote:
He is playing Terran now. They don't have cannons or void rays.

he didnt get up the ladder by playing terran so that's irrelevant:D
allright im done hating ><b


He still beats people at top of ladder with T? I've seen him and cheese and I've seen him play super safe and standard. He seems to have a large variety of strategies which I enjoy. Hope he does tournaments in the future.
Life is Good.
Pokebunny
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States10654 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-29 21:55:59
November 29 2010 21:55 GMT
#26
On November 30 2010 05:56 Sfydjklm wrote:
piqliq proves that having more then 1 base is not a requirement to top the ladder.

this, that guy cheeses like no other
Semipro Terran player | Pokebunny#1710 | twitter.com/Pokebunny | twitch.tv/Pokebunny | facebook.com/PokebunnySC
mcleod
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada350 Posts
November 29 2010 21:55 GMT
#27
On November 30 2010 06:41 jamesr12 wrote:
I love people saying the number one person on the ladder is bad. Maybe he isnt going to be the next GSL winner, but he clearly isnt "bad." Stop hating and go play.

have you played PiqLiq? I assume you havent
He isnt terrible but its for sure a joke thats he's ranked #1
mcleod
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada350 Posts
November 29 2010 21:59 GMT
#28
On November 30 2010 06:52 tsuxiit wrote:
...how did PiQLiQ (or DiQLiQ) get number 1? I don't mean to bash him but every stream game I've watched of him involves DTs and/or cannons and/or mass VR with really weak follow-ups if it fails. Never gg's either.


what this guy said


See the difference between being "cheesy" and a good unorthodox player is someone who actually has follow ups to there builds, which PiqLiq doesnt have, he goes all in with a certain build whether it be cannon rush/voids/dt and when it fails, hes got nothing to fall back on
TERRANLOL
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States626 Posts
November 29 2010 22:03 GMT
#29
Does anyone have replays of PiqLiq playing Terran?
iamke55
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
United States2806 Posts
November 29 2010 22:04 GMT
#30
piqliq has the sickest lategame TvP I've ever seen... think he went 3-1 vs TTOne yesterday, and beats Minigun around 80% of the time.
During practice session, I discovered very good build against zerg. -Bisu[Shield]
Excalibur_Z
Profile Joined October 2002
United States12235 Posts
November 29 2010 22:06 GMT
#31
On November 30 2010 06:03 s.a.y wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2010 05:58 Excalibur_Z wrote:
Associated links:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=169830 (updated with today's Top 200 snapshot)

http://sc2ranks.com/masters

Looks like PiQLiQ massgamed in the past couple of days to reach #1. Good for him =)



can you make a similar calculation for EU server?


I wasn't planning on it, but I think hephaestos or Naruto will be covering EU.
Moderator
s.a.y
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Croatia3840 Posts
November 29 2010 22:10 GMT
#32
On November 30 2010 07:06 Excalibur_Z wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2010 06:03 s.a.y wrote:
On November 30 2010 05:58 Excalibur_Z wrote:
Associated links:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=169830 (updated with today's Top 200 snapshot)

http://sc2ranks.com/masters

Looks like PiQLiQ massgamed in the past couple of days to reach #1. Good for him =)



can you make a similar calculation for EU server?


I wasn't planning on it, but I think hephaestos or Naruto will be covering EU.


Great, thanks for the info
I am not good with quotes
oZii
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1198 Posts
November 29 2010 22:11 GMT
#33
On November 30 2010 07:04 iamke55 wrote:
piqliq has the sickest lategame TvP I've ever seen... think he went 3-1 vs TTOne yesterday, and beats Minigun around 80% of the time.



I agree if he is BM or not maybe he is like some of the Pro Players that doesn't take losing well. Who knows regardless how he is a person shouldn't discredit him as a player. Obviously some people really don't like the guy but if there was someone everyone liked at number 1 people would be saying (insert name) HWAITING. Instead its a joke that he is number 1 because he cheesed someone here or people have played him. The guy has played 1300 + games so I doubt anyone has seen how he played all 1300+

All that aside his TvP late game is really good.
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10009 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-29 22:19:51
November 29 2010 22:12 GMT
#34
On November 30 2010 07:04 iamke55 wrote:
piqliq has the sickest lategame TvP I've ever seen... think he went 3-1 vs TTOne yesterday, and beats Minigun around 80% of the time.


if by sickest lategame u mean making banshees + pfs and a moving his way across the map then yes
ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
norlock
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands918 Posts
November 29 2010 22:12 GMT
#35
Rank 6th Zpux is from Sweden
Are you human?
ROOTheognis
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States4482 Posts
November 29 2010 22:13 GMT
#36
dude i usually hate on habitual cheesers ... but this guy executes em so well and mixes up his play so well. rofl

ive played him alot and even tho i know hes super cheesy and i play safe and scout the entire damn map he always seems to get me.

i cant really hate on the guy that much. he does have some skil thats for sure. he can play standard sometimes and it totally throws u off even more than if he would just cheeese u.
If you avoid your weakness, it will remain your weakness. www.twitter.com/#!/rootheognis Follow me!
ROOTheognis
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States4482 Posts
November 29 2010 22:14 GMT
#37
On November 30 2010 07:12 TT1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2010 07:04 iamke55 wrote:
piqliq has the sickest lategame TvP I've ever seen... think he went 3-1 vs TTOne yesterday, and beats Minigun around 80% of the time.


if by sickest lategame u mean making banshees + pfs then yes and a moving his way across the map then yes


u cant really hate on it man. i know ur frustrated but PF's are necessary later the game goes on TvP.
If you avoid your weakness, it will remain your weakness. www.twitter.com/#!/rootheognis Follow me!
Sfydjklm
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
United States9218 Posts
November 29 2010 22:19 GMT
#38
On November 30 2010 07:12 norlock wrote:
Rank 6th Zpux is from Sweden

he's ours now, just like select.
muahaha
twitter.com/therealdhalism | "Trying out Z = lots of losses vs inferior players until you figure out how to do it well (if it even works)."- Liquid'Tyler
weeeee
Profile Joined March 2010
Australia71 Posts
November 29 2010 22:20 GMT
#39
piqliq is the greatest player of all time clearly ... he plays 2 races at the highest level!!! .....
travolta
Azide
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada566 Posts
November 29 2010 22:22 GMT
#40
no no, he doesnt build PFs around all the expansions... he builds PFs ALL OVER THE MAP
Azide and SuperNinja - Best Double Protoss 2v2 Team!
avilo
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States4100 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-29 22:27:57
November 29 2010 22:24 GMT
#41
piqliq is pretty bad. I remember owning him tvt...all this guy does from what I've seen is randomly build CC's and mass planetary fortresses with banshees/vikings.

Pretty sure tho every good player has lost to him at least once just because of how stupid he plays. That doesn't mean he's good.

And from reading other posts in this thread I think most good players can agree - he's trash. Congrats on the num1 tho. I'm sure he'll win GSL and MLG from only cannon rushing, dts, and random planetaries everywhere on the map! HERP DE DERP

Basically, if you play him on ladder, just look for the hidden CC and you automatically win LOL

User was warned for this post
Sup
YoonHo
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada1043 Posts
November 29 2010 22:29 GMT
#42
I would pay money to get PiQLiQ's replay pack.
IUFam Golf Wang~ NrGsteve
PredY
Profile Joined September 2009
Czech Republic1731 Posts
November 29 2010 22:29 GMT
#43
why the hate? everyone knows it's the tournament results that matters
http://www.twitch.tv/czelpredy
avilo
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States4100 Posts
November 29 2010 22:31 GMT
#44
On November 30 2010 07:29 PredY wrote:
why the hate? everyone knows it's the tournament results that matters


I dun think people hate him. It's just there's random people that will actually think he's mega awesome gosu from #1 NA rank. And it seems everyone has told those people otherwise lmao
Sup
EGLzGaMeR
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States1867 Posts
November 29 2010 22:35 GMT
#45
On November 30 2010 06:55 Pokebunny wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2010 05:56 Sfydjklm wrote:
piqliq proves that having more then 1 base is not a requirement to top the ladder.

this, that guy cheeses like no other

i have to agree.. played him 5 times.. 1 tvt he proxy starport 3 tvp's he cannon rushed me and 1 tvp he went 4 gate into dt rush

5 for 5 with the cheese
Liquid`Ret
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
Netherlands4511 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-29 22:36:04
November 29 2010 22:35 GMT
#46
why u hatin on pilniq avilo, its clear that terran has to play this way to have a chance imo, expect more of it
Team Liquid
Minigun
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
619 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-29 22:40:26
November 29 2010 22:38 GMT
#47
On November 30 2010 07:12 TT1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2010 07:04 iamke55 wrote:
piqliq has the sickest lategame TvP I've ever seen... think he went 3-1 vs TTOne yesterday, and beats Minigun around 80% of the time.


if by sickest lategame u mean making banshees + pfs and a moving his way across the map then yes


Hahahaha, makes me feel better to see someone else frustrated with it .

On November 30 2010 06:53 yarkO wrote:
Seen many games where Minigun ragequits vs mass cloak Banshee + mass Viking vs PiQliQ lol



Ragequit does not = leaving without saying GG.

If I don't think it's a GG I don't GG...it's as simple as that.
“Quiet people have the loudest minds.” ― Stephen Hawking
Ezze
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada934 Posts
November 29 2010 22:38 GMT
#48
I've seen him play many games where he seriously outplays the opponent in the late game without any of the aforementioned "cheese" strats. And by that I mean superior ghost micro, multiple drops at the same time, starting with a failed all-in and still pulling through at the end etc.

And yea he absolutely destroys Mini who actually has a very solid PvT.
avilo
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States4100 Posts
November 29 2010 22:40 GMT
#49
On November 30 2010 07:35 Liquid`Ret wrote:
why u hatin on pilniq avilo, its clear that terran has to play this way to have a chance imo, expect more of it


vs Zerg you're probably right!
Sup
Spinewire
Profile Joined May 2010
United Kingdom17 Posts
November 29 2010 22:47 GMT
#50
Sort the list by win percentage, it's much better that way.
vnlegend
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States1389 Posts
November 29 2010 22:57 GMT
#51
On November 30 2010 07:29 YoonHo wrote:
I would pay money to get PiQLiQ's replay pack.

Me too. I need to learn how to all-in harder as Terran so I can finally make the top 200 list. The mass PF and banshees seem interesting.
Marines > everything
ForgetMeNow
Profile Joined May 2010
United States30 Posts
November 29 2010 22:57 GMT
#52
I'm very confused as to why all the people who clearly aren't #1 on the ladder are insulting the person who is. Why call his strategies "nooby and bad" if they're working so well, even against diamond players. When he's ranked that high he's not playing bad players anymore, he'll be going against others at the top of the ladder. By insulting him, you're basically insulting every player on the ladder.

I don't know anything about him or his playstyle, but come on. Facts are facts, he's able to win. The goal of the game isn't to play in the prettiest way possible; the goal is to (have fun and) win.

Give credit where it's due.

(in before "I could be #1 too, I just don't have time to play that much" from every silver league player)
rigelq
Profile Joined May 2010
United States230 Posts
November 29 2010 22:59 GMT
#53
Random - 11(Up from 10)

Woot! go random!
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-29 23:00:55
November 29 2010 23:00 GMT
#54
On November 30 2010 07:35 Liquid`Ret wrote:
why u hatin on pilniq avilo, its clear that terran has to play this way to have a chance imo, expect more of it


rofl ret, trolling the nubs is always a good relaxant I see . Anyway why the hating. The guy isn't claiming to be amazing or anything to my knowledge? He's just playing and winning
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25980 Posts
November 29 2010 23:03 GMT
#55
On November 30 2010 08:00 Numy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2010 07:35 Liquid`Ret wrote:
why u hatin on pilniq avilo, its clear that terran has to play this way to have a chance imo, expect more of it


rofl ret, trolling the nubs is always a good relaxant I see . Anyway why the hating. The guy isn't claiming to be amazing or anything to my knowledge? He's just playing and winning

Exactly. Maybe when his style stops working he will change it. Maybe he won't and will drop off. But as of now he's #1 so I'd say it's working really well.
Moderator
0neder
Profile Joined July 2009
United States3733 Posts
November 29 2010 23:03 GMT
#56
On November 30 2010 06:34 Sfydjklm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2010 06:24 mcleod wrote:
Ya well maybe i spoke to soon then
Ive only played him as P probably 20 times or so
I cant speak for his T

his TvZ is something like mass blueflame hellions and attack when muta pops, then proceed to die.

Sweet, any VODs? I've been wanting a T to mass hellions vs Zerg for SOOOOO long now.
b_unnies
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
3579 Posts
November 29 2010 23:05 GMT
#57
I am surprised to see Kowi in rank 7. Best player in New Zealand probably
Sfydjklm
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
United States9218 Posts
November 29 2010 23:09 GMT
#58
On November 30 2010 08:03 0neder wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2010 06:34 Sfydjklm wrote:
On November 30 2010 06:24 mcleod wrote:
Ya well maybe i spoke to soon then
Ive only played him as P probably 20 times or so
I cant speak for his T

his TvZ is something like mass blueflame hellions and attack when muta pops, then proceed to die.

Sweet, any VODs? I've been wanting a T to mass hellions vs Zerg for SOOOOO long now.

i dont have the reps sorry.
But it's not very effective. U basically stop mining from expo and block ramp with queens and just wait for muta to pop. Obviously even worse vs a roach zerg.
twitter.com/therealdhalism | "Trying out Z = lots of losses vs inferior players until you figure out how to do it well (if it even works)."- Liquid'Tyler
wishbones
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Canada2600 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-29 23:11:56
November 29 2010 23:10 GMT
#59
#1 means shit just look at me. im #2 and i smell like it..

edit: just incase, on a serious note, yeah stop bashing that guy who is #1, if you are #1 you are #1 its not easy. you can mass games all you want, but you wont be able to beat #2 etc.. unless you are actually good etc..
joined TL.net in 2006 (aka GMer) - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=41944#2
sjschmidt93
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2518 Posts
November 29 2010 23:22 GMT
#60
Ladder rank doesn't mean much.

(Watch IdrA crush MVP on Wednesday)
My grandpa could've proxied better, and not only does he have arthritis, he's also dead. -Sean "Day[9]" Plott
rsvp
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States2266 Posts
November 29 2010 23:24 GMT
#61
On November 30 2010 08:03 Chill wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2010 08:00 Numy wrote:
On November 30 2010 07:35 Liquid`Ret wrote:
why u hatin on pilniq avilo, its clear that terran has to play this way to have a chance imo, expect more of it


rofl ret, trolling the nubs is always a good relaxant I see . Anyway why the hating. The guy isn't claiming to be amazing or anything to my knowledge? He's just playing and winning

Exactly. Maybe when his style stops working he will change it. Maybe he won't and will drop off. But as of now he's #1 so I'd say it's working really well.


The hate comes from:

1. He's bm
2. No tournament results to back up his prestigious #1 ladder ranking (#1 ladder is no GSL title, but if we're making such a big deal of it in the forums it obviously holds at least some prestige)
3. Lots of cheesy play
4. Other people thinking he's amazing
5. It's easy to rage and be frustrated at his abusive strats. I've lost to his mass PF and a-move banshees, and I got a glimpse of what it felt like to be Idra when he said "you won without doing a single thing" or "making carriers is a nice skill toi have"
FataLe
Profile Joined November 2010
New Zealand4501 Posts
November 29 2010 23:25 GMT
#62
Yeaaa Kowiiiiiii #7!
You baller, you.

Anyway I've seen PiQLiQ play. He might be cheesy but that does not mean he isn't solid. Kids crazy good. His lategame is fully abusive of Terran which is good. Play your race to it's potential right? Not what other people deem "proper" or "good" play. Kid doesn't care, that's why he's #1 and your not.
hi. big fan.
CruelZeratul
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany4588 Posts
November 29 2010 23:29 GMT
#63
Does anyone have a replay of that Banshe+PF play and would be so kind and upload it somewhere?
link0
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1071 Posts
November 29 2010 23:31 GMT
#64
http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=162503

Replay of a game I had against his Toss. I've never seen such a weird build before.
http://www.justin.tv/link0 - Gosu.Linko - http://www.facebook.com/link0
Enervate
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1769 Posts
November 29 2010 23:33 GMT
#65
On November 30 2010 07:57 ForgetMeNow wrote:
I'm very confused as to why all the people who clearly aren't #1 on the ladder are insulting the person who is. Why call his strategies "nooby and bad" if they're working so well, even against diamond players. When he's ranked that high he's not playing bad players anymore, he'll be going against others at the top of the ladder. By insulting him, you're basically insulting every player on the ladder.

I don't know anything about him or his playstyle, but come on. Facts are facts, he's able to win. The goal of the game isn't to play in the prettiest way possible; the goal is to (have fun and) win.

Give credit where it's due.

(in before "I could be #1 too, I just don't have time to play that much" from every silver league player)

Actually, it's usually the silver noobies that defend the #1 guy because they put way too much value in ladder rankings, which is what everyone else in this thread is trying to disprove and prevent. Basically, every single player who is discrediting Piqliq is in the top 200 and near or above his level of play. Obviously he can crush nooby 2000pt diamonds but he's obviously not going to win any tournaments soon either. The reason he's number one is because he's played so many games. He might be able to win but he isn't able to win a large percentage of his games. Anyone can win games.
avilo
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States4100 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-29 23:36:48
November 29 2010 23:34 GMT
#66
On November 30 2010 08:03 Chill wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2010 08:00 Numy wrote:
On November 30 2010 07:35 Liquid`Ret wrote:
why u hatin on pilniq avilo, its clear that terran has to play this way to have a chance imo, expect more of it


rofl ret, trolling the nubs is always a good relaxant I see . Anyway why the hating. The guy isn't claiming to be amazing or anything to my knowledge? He's just playing and winning

Exactly. Maybe when his style stops working he will change it. Maybe he won't and will drop off. But as of now he's #1 so I'd say it's working really well.


Ok, ok, police man. You caught me speeding 50 in a 20. Let's phrase it this way. PiqLiq has an an "amazing ladder style" as in for playing and getting ladder points, but his play style is not really a good "tournament style of play."

He's also very BM btw. Perhaps you haven't played him though .

On November 30 2010 08:24 Anihc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2010 08:03 Chill wrote:
On November 30 2010 08:00 Numy wrote:
On November 30 2010 07:35 Liquid`Ret wrote:
why u hatin on pilniq avilo, its clear that terran has to play this way to have a chance imo, expect more of it


rofl ret, trolling the nubs is always a good relaxant I see . Anyway why the hating. The guy isn't claiming to be amazing or anything to my knowledge? He's just playing and winning

Exactly. Maybe when his style stops working he will change it. Maybe he won't and will drop off. But as of now he's #1 so I'd say it's working really well.


The hate comes from:

1. He's bm
2. No tournament results to back up his prestigious #1 ladder ranking (#1 ladder is no GSL title, but if we're making such a big deal of it in the forums it obviously holds at least some prestige)
3. Lots of cheesy play
4. Other people thinking he's amazing
5. It's easy to rage and be frustrated at his abusive strats. I've lost to his mass PF and a-move banshees, and I got a glimpse of what it felt like to be Idra when he said "you won without doing a single thing" or "making carriers is a nice skill toi have"


this post pretty much says it all
Sup
donut boi
Profile Joined October 2010
United States154 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-29 23:44:03
November 29 2010 23:35 GMT
#67
piqliq plays terran and toss... that alone should grant him some respect... and even if he is cheesy, thats just part of the game. Sure he doesnt place well in tourneys, but hes certainly beating many many top players with his strats.
donut the bronut
shindigs
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States4795 Posts
November 29 2010 23:38 GMT
#68
On the ladder I think its easy to take some free wins by doing a really weird build and count on your opponent not expecting what to do next. Props to piqliq though I'm pretty curious about this "weird" style. Do what works and what gets you wins, isn't that the point of the ladder?
Photographer@shindags || twitch.tv/shindigs
stalife
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada1222 Posts
November 29 2010 23:38 GMT
#69
it's certainly very frustrating to play against piqliq. I remember one game I was streaming, and ended up playing against him twice in a row. First game ended up to be a 1 hr long tvt where in the end, mass ravens beat battlecruisers, and he won. Second game, he cannon rushed me and I didn't know he was protoss :/ Who cares if he is cheesy to get to #1. He definitely has his unique style of play. just frustrating to play against him :D
www.memoryexpress.com
N0cturnal
Profile Joined November 2010
United Kingdom40 Posts
November 29 2010 23:45 GMT
#70
lol he has like 50+ recent wins on ladder just doing thor +scv pushes. It seems he uses all the OP shit and mixes it with cheese. Pretty creative, blizz should probably be looking at his games to see how fucked the game is when you abuse its problems
For Aiur!
Zelniq
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States7166 Posts
November 29 2010 23:46 GMT
#71
There's no better way to ruin your ladder session in a fit of rage than losing to PiQLiQ. That guy does strategies you know you shouldn't have lost to which just makes it all the more embarrassing and upsetting
ModeratorBlame yourself or God
YoonHo
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada1043 Posts
November 29 2010 23:47 GMT
#72
Why so much hate towards PiQLiQ. I personally love his unique style of play. It's fun to play vs and it's fun to watch. I personally never experienced BM from him, although when he loses he doesn't type gg, but everyone does that time to time. Congrats to him for getting #1. Also, tournament accomplishments are what matters, in my opinion as well. However, I would be lying if I didn't think that getting #1 on top 200 wasn't a cool accomplishment or a testament to someone's skill.
IUFam Golf Wang~ NrGsteve
YoonHo
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada1043 Posts
November 29 2010 23:48 GMT
#73
On November 30 2010 08:46 Zelniq wrote:
There's no better way to ruin your ladder session in a fit of rage than losing to PiQLiQ. That guy does strategies you know you shouldn't have lost to which just makes it all the more embarrassing and upsetting


lol, that is true =[.
IUFam Golf Wang~ NrGsteve
Falaras
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6 Posts
November 29 2010 23:48 GMT
#74
Wasn't Piqliq the guy that raged at Catz for expanding more than once in a game? He was trying to insult him by saying he is playing command and conquer because he expanded so much, or something like that...It didn't really make any sense. Everytime I see him on stream he gets absolutely smashed by the pro players so it's probably just game spamming to beat lesser players.
Impeccable
Profile Joined November 2010
51 Posts
November 29 2010 23:49 GMT
#75
PiQLiQ's unique style is worthy of some praise in my opinion. He kind of reminds me of Torch with his uniqueness except PiQLiQ seems to be a bit more all-in with some of his play. It's also cool that he ladders with both protoss and terran.
weeeee
Profile Joined March 2010
Australia71 Posts
November 29 2010 23:50 GMT
#76
piqliq made 20 cannons so catz took the whole map and he raged at catz for playing command and conquer unlim money or something...
travolta
Redmark
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada2129 Posts
November 29 2010 23:54 GMT
#77
On November 30 2010 08:46 Zelniq wrote:
There's no better way to ruin your ladder session in a fit of rage than losing to PiQLiQ. That guy does strategies you know you shouldn't have lost to which just makes it all the more embarrassing and upsetting

Then you should be glad that he exists, because now you won't lose to it again.
You won't lose to it again, right?
Subversion
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
South Africa3627 Posts
November 29 2010 23:55 GMT
#78
On November 30 2010 06:44 Sfydjklm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2010 06:41 jamesr12 wrote:
I love people saying the number one person on the ladder is bad. Maybe he isnt going to be the next GSL winner, but he clearly isnt "bad." Stop hating and go play.

he's very good at cannon rushing and building voidrays i give u that.


lol i've never heard of this guy. how does everyone know his playstyle? streamed tourneys?
Mellotron
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States329 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-29 23:59:24
November 29 2010 23:57 GMT
#79
On November 30 2010 08:25 FataLe wrote:
Yeaaa Kowiiiiiii #7!
You baller, you.

Anyway I've seen PiQLiQ play. He might be cheesy but that does not mean he isn't solid. Kids crazy good. His lategame is fully abusive of Terran which is good. Play your race to it's potential right? Not what other people deem "proper" or "good" play. Kid doesn't care, that's why he's #1 and your not.


People didnt say he wasnt solid, they said he was cheesy and bad mannered/disrespectful. "Abusive" play isnt considered respectable to everyone, so it cant be factually called "good". "Play your race to its potential" could mean many different things to many different people, and its obvious that some people dont see potential in his style by the comments in this thread. The "kid" obviously does care, or else he wouldnt be mass gaming. And the reason he is number 1 is because he is playing mass games with strats that are winning him games, not because other players "arent him". Lastly, i highly doubt he is a kid. I dont know why some people think its valid to discredit criticism by claiming its jealousy fueled. How many youtube vids are there of some terrible band that someone commented how terrible it is just to have some 13 year old respond with "ur just mad cuz ur not famous"? Meanwhile, that band is horrible, and marketing sells them rather than actual musical ability. So as you can see, not all criticism is based in jealousy.

On the other hand, i dont refute that his results are interesting, and i look forward to seeing more of his replays/results. I actually dont mind abusive playstyles. Sometimes abusive is what they call it before they start calling it standard.
Starcraft player since 1999
Subversion
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
South Africa3627 Posts
November 29 2010 23:59 GMT
#80
On November 30 2010 07:35 Liquid`Ret wrote:
why u hatin on pilniq avilo, its clear that terran has to play this way to have a chance imo, expect more of it


looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

ret has got quite the banter on him
Pokebunny
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States10654 Posts
November 30 2010 00:00 GMT
#81
On November 30 2010 08:55 Subversion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2010 06:44 Sfydjklm wrote:
On November 30 2010 06:41 jamesr12 wrote:
I love people saying the number one person on the ladder is bad. Maybe he isnt going to be the next GSL winner, but he clearly isnt "bad." Stop hating and go play.

he's very good at cannon rushing and building voidrays i give u that.


lol i've never heard of this guy. how does everyone know his playstyle? streamed tourneys?

He's got 2000+ games and most of the people commenting about his play are in top 200.
Semipro Terran player | Pokebunny#1710 | twitter.com/Pokebunny | twitch.tv/Pokebunny | facebook.com/PokebunnySC
mcleod
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada350 Posts
November 30 2010 00:01 GMT
#82
the thing is once you know his playstyle, you start losing less and less to him

buts props to PiqLiq for getting this much attention, seems like everyone in the top 200 knows his ID

so I guess PiqLiq is the winner in all this
Kishkumen
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States650 Posts
November 30 2010 00:02 GMT
#83
On November 30 2010 08:59 Subversion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2010 07:35 Liquid`Ret wrote:
why u hatin on pilniq avilo, its clear that terran has to play this way to have a chance imo, expect more of it


looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

ret has got quite the banter on him

Seriously. That comment needs more love.
Weird, last time I checked the UN said you need to have at least 200 APM and be rainbow league to be called human. —Liquid`TLO
BrickTop
Profile Joined May 2009
United States37 Posts
November 30 2010 00:08 GMT
#84
I find it sad how many people here hate Piqliq just because he's not part of the TL community. Because I really think it just boils down to that. He has to be a pretty solid player to be #1, I'm sure there are a lot of other players who mass games and cheese but are not even in the top 100.

When boxer/foxer/etc cheeses you clap and giggle like schoolgirls but when some unknown guy outside of the community does it you hate him? Good job.
Deleted User 47542
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
1484 Posts
November 30 2010 00:10 GMT
#85
On November 30 2010 09:08 BrickTop wrote:
I find it sad how many people here hate Piqliq just because he's not part of the TL community. Because I really think it just boils down to that. He has to be a pretty solid player to be #1, I'm sure there are a lot of other players who mass games and cheese but are not even in the top 100.

When boxer/foxer/etc cheeses you clap and giggle like schoolgirls but when some unknown guy outside of the community does it you hate him? Good job.

It has nothing to do TL. Look at his match history and you'll see what people are talking about. I still think he has a cool TvP but that's about it. Every time I played vs his toss it was something retarded that was impossible to stop without good scouting(3 gate void ray pylon charge, 4 gate into dts, proxy gates, cannon rushes..).

InterWill
Profile Joined September 2007
Sweden117 Posts
November 30 2010 00:14 GMT
#86
On November 30 2010 09:10 superbabosheki wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2010 09:08 BrickTop wrote:
I find it sad how many people here hate Piqliq just because he's not part of the TL community. Because I really think it just boils down to that. He has to be a pretty solid player to be #1, I'm sure there are a lot of other players who mass games and cheese but are not even in the top 100.

When boxer/foxer/etc cheeses you clap and giggle like schoolgirls but when some unknown guy outside of the community does it you hate him? Good job.

It has nothing to do TL. Look at his match history and you'll see what people are talking about. I still think he has a cool TvP but that's about it. Every time I played vs his toss it was something retarded that was impossible to stop without good scouting(3 gate void ray pylon charge, 4 gate into dts, proxy gates, cannon rushes..).


How can it be retarded if he wins?
xAPOCALYPSEx
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
1418 Posts
November 30 2010 00:15 GMT
#87
PiQliQ is an awesome player. He constantly plays mini and from what I've seen and heard from mini, PiQliQ is the hardest terran mini is put up against... ie he has the best TvP (when piqliq plays T of course).

I never used to see him talk a lot but now he seems like he is pretty well mannered (and funny) with Mini.

My favorite quote of his came after he lost a marine to probes early game after the marine snuck into the mineral line:

Mini: "Brave marine"
PiQliQ: "He was searching for Tassadar"

PiQliQ is quickly becoming one of my favorite players to watch, period :D
Demarini
Profile Joined May 2010
United States151 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-30 00:17:52
November 30 2010 00:16 GMT
#88
On November 30 2010 09:08 BrickTop wrote:
I find it sad how many people here hate Piqliq just because he's not part of the TL community. Because I really think it just boils down to that. He has to be a pretty solid player to be #1, I'm sure there are a lot of other players who mass games and cheese but are not even in the top 100.

When boxer/foxer/etc cheeses you clap and giggle like schoolgirls but when some unknown guy outside of the community does it you hate him? Good job.


I hate posts like this. Until we're at the level to be playing and winning in tournaments with other pro players, we shouldn't be held in that high regard. He can't do it, yet he is "the #1 player in NA" according to the ladder. That's just stupid, and discredits what ladder means even more.

Edit- Another thing about the people that say "yeah but you win". That's fine for now, but as the game develops, people will stop losing to this cheese more and more. The people that practiced and focused on just getting better by playing standard, will be better off in the long run, though they might never reach #1 on the ladder. That's why you can't respect something like this.
cmos543
Profile Joined October 2008
220 Posts
November 30 2010 00:19 GMT
#89
I once played PiQLiQ three games back to back to back. He beat me with a different cheese EVERY SINGLE GAME. Needless to say I was totally bad mannered by the third game and he didn't respond.
So as far as being bad mannered from my experience he's actually the opposite.

I think the reason that everyone knows who he is is that many of us have played him, and those of us that have lost to him more likely then not have lost to cheese. No one likes to loose to cheese, and you hate people that cheese constantly.
You shall not misuse your screen name by using anonymity to sin
wintergt
Profile Joined February 2010
Belgium1335 Posts
November 30 2010 00:19 GMT
#90
On November 30 2010 09:10 superbabosheki wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2010 09:08 BrickTop wrote:
I find it sad how many people here hate Piqliq just because he's not part of the TL community. Because I really think it just boils down to that. He has to be a pretty solid player to be #1, I'm sure there are a lot of other players who mass games and cheese but are not even in the top 100.

When boxer/foxer/etc cheeses you clap and giggle like schoolgirls but when some unknown guy outside of the community does it you hate him? Good job.

It has nothing to do TL. Look at his match history and you'll see what people are talking about. I still think he has a cool TvP but that's about it. Every time I played vs his toss it was something retarded that was impossible to stop without good scouting(3 gate void ray pylon charge, 4 gate into dts, proxy gates, cannon rushes..).


That sounds pretty awesome I'd love to see some replays of this guy.
here i am
dizzy101
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands2066 Posts
November 30 2010 00:22 GMT
#91
Awesome stuff by PiQLiQ. It's good to see some colorful play.

Also, he's pretty well known by now, so top players can expect cheesy/unorthodox/turtle play. Even with knowing that, they often still lose. So props to PiQLiQ.
FataLe
Profile Joined November 2010
New Zealand4501 Posts
November 30 2010 00:25 GMT
#92
On November 30 2010 08:57 Mellotron wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2010 08:25 FataLe wrote:
Yeaaa Kowiiiiiii #7!
You baller, you.

Anyway I've seen PiQLiQ play. He might be cheesy but that does not mean he isn't solid. Kids crazy good. His lategame is fully abusive of Terran which is good. Play your race to it's potential right? Not what other people deem "proper" or "good" play. Kid doesn't care, that's why he's #1 and your not.


People didnt say he wasnt solid, they said he was cheesy and bad mannered/disrespectful. "Abusive" play isnt considered respectable to everyone, so it cant be factually called "good". "Play your race to its potential" could mean many different things to many different people, and its obvious that some people dont see potential in his style by the comments in this thread. The "kid" obviously does care, or else he wouldnt be mass gaming. And the reason he is number 1 is because he is playing mass games with strats that are winning him games, not because other players "arent him". Lastly, i highly doubt he is a kid. I dont know why some people think its valid to discredit criticism by claiming its jealousy fueled. How many youtube vids are there of some terrible band that someone commented how terrible it is just to have some 13 year old respond with "ur just mad cuz ur not famous"? Meanwhile, that band is horrible, and marketing sells them rather than actual musical ability. So as you can see, not all criticism is based in jealousy.

On the other hand, i dont refute that his results are interesting, and i look forward to seeing more of his replays/results. I actually dont mind abusive playstyles. Sometimes abusive is what they call it before they start calling it standard.

Wow dude.
First of all you're right, people didn't say he was not solid. My mistake, but it is certainly implied.
Next, obviously playing your race to it's potential does mean a myriad of different thing you are correct. I'm not saying he was necessarily playing his race to it's potential but he is abusing it. He doesn't care about what people think of him, is what I was saying. Maybe I need to clarify I bit more, I don't know. But the strategies he is using is generally looked down upon (as evidenced by the amount of people hating? definitely not supporting them) What do you mean people aren't him? Ofc they aren't. What are you blabbering about? Where did you get jealousy from? I'm merely stating that he is number #1 because he doesn't care about what strats he uses and mass games. That's why he's #1 and your not. Take a look at Minigun's style for example. He plays "standard" 80% of the time and he's gotten very far off of mass gaming. Is he #1? No. The difference is PiQLiQ isn't playing "standard" and masses games, he is #1. Geez, I shouldn't have to make myself clear, I thought my sentence was well worded :\
hi. big fan.
InterWill
Profile Joined September 2007
Sweden117 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-30 00:27:24
November 30 2010 00:26 GMT
#93
On November 30 2010 09:16 Demarini wrote:Another thing about the people that say "yeah but you win". That's fine for now, but as the game develops, people will stop losing to this cheese more and more. The people that practiced and focused on just getting better by playing standard, will be better off in the long run, though they might never reach #1 on the ladder. That's why you can't respect something like this.

I don't agree with this at all.

You play to win. If people adapt and stop losing to your way of playing you adapt and win or don't and lose. There are no extra points for winning the correct way and complaining that you lost to cheese will not help you. Watch the replay. Learn from your mistakes. Don't be a scrub, just play to win.

As long as he keeps winning, the incentive to change strategies and tactics should lie with the people who are losing to him. Asking a winning player to change his game when he's winning, well, why?
Lalgee
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom65 Posts
November 30 2010 00:27 GMT
#94
Yeah, PiQLiQ is amazing. Deservedly #1 for using such bizarre strategies, and still being the 'best'. The fact he appears to be amazing with both Terran and Protoss is in itself mindboggling, but that he is using creative strategies at the same time? I can't understand how people can flame that lol!
"That's Lal-Genius"
MrMotionPicture
Profile Joined May 2010
United States4327 Posts
November 30 2010 00:27 GMT
#95
Never heard of PiqLiq. Hm.
"Elvis Presley" | Ret was looking at my post in the GSL video by Artosis. | MMA told me I look like Juanfran while we shared an elevator with Scarlett
stroggos
Profile Joined February 2009
New Zealand1543 Posts
November 30 2010 00:29 GMT
#96
On November 30 2010 06:16 mcleod wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2010 05:54 oZii wrote:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/1239839

This is North America Top 200 I forgot to add NA in the Title sorry

Top 10 11.29.2010

W L
1 PiQLiQ 1314 1029
2 Katari 1260 772
3 TTOne 641 373
4 Cheese 405 242
5 BrokenRhythm 940 757
6 ZpuX 169 96
7 Kowi 750 589
8 dde 349 244
9 ROOTdrewbie 291 143
10 ROOTqxc 347 140


I have seen PiQLiQ on Mini's stream always epic battles



Previous Top 200 NA
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=171012

Top 10 11.22.2010

W L
1 Katari 1168 711
2 TTOne 617 358
3 SeleCT 551 211
4 AlLaboUtyOu 673 471
5 Cheese 392 236
6 MasterAsia 362 233
7 Boyardee 378 202
8 ViBE 338 224
9 Gretorp 343 235
10 InflowMini 998 841





Total Race Distribution

Terran - 85 (No Change)

Zerg - 53(Down from 59)

Protoss - 51(Up from 46)

Random - 11(Up from 10)

MOD I forgot to add NA in the Title if a Mod could edit that please.

Piqliq #1

lol and this is why ladder means nothing

he's an ok player , but literally cheeses every single game and when i say "cheeses" i dont mean strong 1 base play, i mean he either goes cannon rush/DT/mass void ray





getting to rank 1 with cheesing, you would have to play the same people mutliple times, i don't see why cheesing automatically means his feat is nothing.
hi
xAPOCALYPSEx
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
1418 Posts
November 30 2010 00:30 GMT
#97
From what it looks like from the posts of pretty damn good players (a lot in the top 200), besides his insane TvP, he just is the best player at abusing tactics that make T and P good. I wouldn't say that makes PiQLiQ a bad player, in fact I'd argue the opposite. If he abuses builds that make races good, why don't other people? They could probably experience a better winrate with it.

PiQLiQ may cheese in many of his games as P, but hey, its beating everybody, so why not?

And they say cheese doesn't work past plat! <3 PiQLiQ
FataLe
Profile Joined November 2010
New Zealand4501 Posts
November 30 2010 00:30 GMT
#98
On November 30 2010 09:26 InterWill wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2010 09:16 Demarini wrote:Another thing about the people that say "yeah but you win". That's fine for now, but as the game develops, people will stop losing to this cheese more and more. The people that practiced and focused on just getting better by playing standard, will be better off in the long run, though they might never reach #1 on the ladder. That's why you can't respect something like this.

I don't agree with this at all.

You play to win. If people adapt and stop losing to your way of playing you adapt and win or don't and lose. There are no extra points for winning "the correct way" and complaining that you lost to cheese will not help you. Watch the replay. Learn from your mistakes. Don't be a scrub, just play to win.

As long as he keeps winning, the incentive to change strategies and tactics should lie with the people who're losing to him. Asking a winning player to change his game when he's winning, well, why?

This.

He's not playing by the "norm" or what we think is "correct" play, and look how far that has got him.
His recent match history is something to be looked at and learned from. You play to win. He wins, how, is irrelevant. He's not being a sheep and following what most people do, he plays his own way and it WORKS. When people wise up to most of the things he does I'm sure he'll change again, because that's the type of player he his, It's very effective.
hi. big fan.
link0
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1071 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-30 00:31:49
November 30 2010 00:31 GMT
#99
A win is a win. I respect him for winning. Would be curious to see his performance in a tournament setting.
http://www.justin.tv/link0 - Gosu.Linko - http://www.facebook.com/link0
MDew
Profile Joined November 2010
United States256 Posts
November 30 2010 00:32 GMT
#100
Playing to win does not get you the respect of the community, fans, or teams unless you do it in an interesting or skillful manner.

thundertoss
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1166 Posts
November 30 2010 00:39 GMT
#101
if you are a top 200 player or a big fan of any of those big names... be sure to check out my Top 200 KOTH hosted every Friday.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=160509
Underneath David Kims banelings is another control group of banelings.
Ezze
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada934 Posts
November 30 2010 00:41 GMT
#102
On November 30 2010 09:39 thundertoss wrote:
if you are a top 200 player or a big fan of any of those big names... be sure to check out my Top 200 KOTH hosted every Friday.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=160509


Sounds like getting PiQliQ on there would definitely create some hype
Mellotron
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States329 Posts
November 30 2010 00:42 GMT
#103
Well i watched that replay of PiQliQ just now. Maybe its old and he has come up a notch in skill since then, but overall in that replay he played like garbage. In the first phases of the game he did a pitiful attempt at pyloning in the Terrans base, threw units away, had piss-poor unit composition by not bringing at least 1 sentry after he went up the Terrans ramp (he could have ended the game right there), then went on to force field horribly at his own ramp, built a ton of cannons and threw away more units, etc etc. Seriously maybe now he got alot better, i mean, he must have. But that replay he in no way showed any "super game sense" or anything like it. It seems more like he tries everything he can to get an easy win, and then panics after it fails, at which point he then defends by the least skill based means possible. I dont think its a matter of opinion, at least in that game. There are many instances where he really isnt even thinking at what i would call slightly advanced level. He has almost zero forethought, and he could have won the game much more easily at several points if he had brought a single sentry, or even been able to forcefield properly.

But, like i said, that seems like a slightly older replay. Maybe by now he is brilliant strategist. Or maybe hes just better at Terran. Either way there is nothing special about his play in that replay whatsoever. In that game his game sense is indistinguishable from Gold level play.
Starcraft player since 1999
donut boi
Profile Joined October 2010
United States154 Posts
November 30 2010 00:54 GMT
#104
I wanna see more of this guy just to see top players rage... someone contact him and tell him to play in tourneys!!!! and yea he has the most epic of epic rivalries with mini... saw a game on lost temple where every mineral patch got mined out and it came down to a final zealot/templar vs rauder/ghost clash. Piqliq summoned down mules to mine out mini's last base too... so epic... mini lost, but that match will be remembered for centuries. He seems pretty well mannered when playing against him, maybe its just mini...
donut the bronut
internationale
Profile Joined November 2010
1 Post
November 30 2010 01:04 GMT
#105
pretty bad 1st post but there's a few replays of him here
http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?s=54f86703cc7acb8d432256204088d024&game=33&show=search_submit&search_player=PiQLiQ
some crazy games don't rly see where the hate is coming from either just seems like a good macro player to me
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10009 Posts
November 30 2010 01:09 GMT
#106
lol this is getting ridiculous, i kinda feel bad for making my post now(i was trying to get at how difficult it is to deal with mass banshee+pfs, i never tried to insult him as a player).. the guy gets no1 on the us server, always minds his own business but for some reason everyone decides to still shit on him

typical gamers who become jealous and feel the urge to defend their ego, then u have the public who bandwagons at every opportunity that they see
ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
Antoine
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States7481 Posts
November 30 2010 01:19 GMT
#107
sounds like a pretty creative guy, look forward to maybe seeing him in a tourney stream in the near future? fingers crossed.
ModeratorFlash Sea Action Snow Midas | TheStC Ret Tyler MC | RIP 우정호
positron.
Profile Joined May 2010
634 Posts
November 30 2010 01:36 GMT
#108
On November 30 2010 10:09 TT1 wrote:
lol this is getting ridiculous, i kinda feel bad for making my post now(i was trying to get at how difficult it is to deal with mass banshee+pfs, i never tried to insult him as a player).. the guy gets no1 on the us server, always minds his own business but for some reason everyone decides to still shit on him

typical gamers who become jealous and feel the urge to defend their ego, then u have the public who bandwagons at every opportunity that they see


Well said. If Ret cheesed in a GSL game and won everybody will be "What a gutsy move. He dared to put it all on the line like that." The mentality of many people in this thread is really amazing. People with no principles are the worst.
1Eris1
Profile Joined September 2010
United States5797 Posts
November 30 2010 01:46 GMT
#109
Imo props to the dude for thinking up "creative" strategies to get to the top. But people need to lay off, I don't think anyone defending him is trying to say he's better then players like TT1, Qxc, etc.
Known Aliases: Tyragon, Valeric ~MSL Forever, SKT is truly the Superior KT!
hiyo_bye
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States737 Posts
November 30 2010 01:53 GMT
#110
Yesterday I was hoping someone made a piqliq fan club, some every game I've seen with him is awesome. someone do it!
Random
LynxKerr
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada173 Posts
November 30 2010 02:05 GMT
#111
Yo piqliq is amazing... hate him or love him, the dude is flat out hard to beat.. whether it be cheese or a more basic game. The dude is so so abusive I love it. So many people crying on here having lost to piqliq's crazy builds over and over again. At some point it reveals the truth: he executes various builds with 2 races better than you execute your standard with one race.

I played him once on ladder and lost to the million banshee late game strategy.
Get busy livin', or get busy dyin'
DeltruS
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada2214 Posts
November 30 2010 02:17 GMT
#112
Grats PsY on #150! Great job.

http://grooveshark.com/#/deltrus/music
Reason.SC2
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada1047 Posts
November 30 2010 02:20 GMT
#113
Lot of hating going on here. Even if he is cheesing every game to get to #1 on ladder he's got to beat a lot of good players. That ain't easy. He's obviously not awful like some of you self-righteous people are suggesting.

If he is so bad and predictable then you should easily bit him constantly and he'll drop off quickly. So don't hate on forums and go bop some clowns (assuming that you can ofc).

The only problem I see here is with the way the ladder works. Some tournaments (Blizzcon, some of the GSLs planned for 2011) are based on ladder rankings. If a player peaks at the appropriate time using unique play styles, this might result in someone who isn't a well-rounded player ending up representing their region.

Anyways its been established and beat to death already that ladder is not a reliable measure of skill. Given that why hate on Piqliq for getting #1. Its the ladder ranking dynamics that reward a play style that you don't like. Thats not his fault. Stop being a jealous girlyman.
donut boi
Profile Joined October 2010
United States154 Posts
November 30 2010 02:23 GMT
#114
On November 30 2010 10:04 internationale wrote:
pretty bad 1st post but there's a few replays of him here
http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?s=54f86703cc7acb8d432256204088d024&game=33&show=search_submit&search_player=PiQLiQ
some crazy games don't rly see where the hate is coming from either just seems like a good macro player to me


:O just saw the game called "piqliqs demise." He def has an interesting style. idk where the notion that he is a cheesy player comes from either cuz in that game he macros super hard... made his nat a pf and went for a fast 3rd... i wanna see more of this guy tbh, very inconsistent player in terms of strategy. lol maybe he account shares? how else can he manage playing both terran/toss and a wide array of playstyles.
donut the bronut
Deleted User 108965
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
1096 Posts
November 30 2010 02:26 GMT
#115
On November 30 2010 11:17 Kraz.Del wrote:
Grats PsY on #150! Great job.



oh wow i forgot to look for him, thats awesome! love that guy
Disciple....Top 3 control in Clarion County
flopflop
Profile Joined October 2010
45 Posts
November 30 2010 02:27 GMT
#116
anyone have any replays of this mass banshee planetary fortress style?
Skullflower
Profile Joined July 2010
United States3779 Posts
November 30 2010 02:39 GMT
#117
Isn't PiQLiQ the person that cheeses every single game?
The ruminations are mine, let the world be yours.
Cedstick
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Canada3336 Posts
November 30 2010 02:41 GMT
#118
All those shit-talking Piqliq didn't see him play an hour+ TvT against Stalife and win. Dude is sick.
"What does Rivington do when he's not commentating?" "Drool." ~ Categorist
bLueSkY)
Profile Joined November 2006
New Zealand88 Posts
November 30 2010 02:45 GMT
#119
LOL this is hilarious. Wow he cheeses.. ok so because hes not playing the way you want him to play which is "standard" hes apparently unworthy of top1? the fact hes even gotten to top1 by obviously beating decent players suggests his method of play is favourable for ladder wins;

if somone other than piqliq is deserves top1 on the ladder they should beat his "cheesey" unskillful play then, since hes so "bad". It scares me people think this game HAS to be played a certain way, let me repeat what this is... a GAME
flopflop
Profile Joined October 2010
45 Posts
November 30 2010 03:05 GMT
#120
someone plz make a piqliq fanclub i would like to join
LambtrOn
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States671 Posts
November 30 2010 03:47 GMT
#121
I will never understand why people like bm players.
sl0w
Profile Joined July 2010
United States447 Posts
November 30 2010 03:47 GMT
#122
PiQLiQ is cheesy at times but he's so fun to watch.
flodeskum
Profile Joined September 2010
Iceland1267 Posts
November 30 2010 03:52 GMT
#123
I love PiQLiQ, he's the reason I watch CatZ's channel as CatZ seems to be on a special ladder where 70% of his games are against Mankeez and PiQLiQ.
IdrA: " my fans are kinda retarded"
Pervect
Profile Joined June 2007
1280 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-30 04:08:23
November 30 2010 03:56 GMT
#124
On November 30 2010 12:52 flodeskum wrote:
I love PiQLiQ, he's the reason I watch CatZ's channel as CatZ seems to be on a special ladder where 70% of his games are against Mankeez and PiQLiQ.

PiQLiQ must just play a lot/at the same time as CatZ/Mini because Mini gets this dude like 4 times in a row half the time I watch him
Shuray
Profile Joined July 2008
Brazil642 Posts
November 30 2010 04:28 GMT
#125
Weird is the fact that InflowMini have 3,153 points and isnt #1...
DeltruS
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada2214 Posts
November 30 2010 04:31 GMT
#126
On November 30 2010 13:28 Shuray wrote:
Weird is the fact that InflowMini have 3,153 points and isnt #1...


That isn't wierd. He just ladders more at a slightly lesser skill level.
http://grooveshark.com/#/deltrus/music
Excalibur_Z
Profile Joined October 2002
United States12235 Posts
November 30 2010 04:39 GMT
#127
On November 30 2010 13:28 Shuray wrote:
Weird is the fact that InflowMini have 3,153 points and isnt #1...


He's in a lower division tier.
Moderator
vileChAnCe
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada525 Posts
November 30 2010 05:09 GMT
#128
I'm not so upset at the player as I'm upset that how effective "cheese" is. I don't even coin it cheese anymore as you can fully know a player is gonna do some bullshit and it'll still work a good portion of the time. Grats to PiQliQ for teaching us a valuable lesson...
Day[9] i've broken 6 mice, 5 keyboards, 3 pairs of headphones, and a mousepad, all from raging after starcraft losing streaks
mcleod
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada350 Posts
November 30 2010 05:25 GMT
#129
On November 30 2010 10:04 internationale wrote:
pretty bad 1st post but there's a few replays of him here
http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?s=54f86703cc7acb8d432256204088d024&game=33&show=search_submit&search_player=PiQLiQ
some crazy games don't rly see where the hate is coming from either just seems like a good macro player to me


wow i just watched that replay on meta
amazing amazing game by PiqLiq

ive never been in a game with him that went this way, which is why i think hes getting so much hate
the games ive played vs him have been either his cheese kills me or i stop it and he basically loses 2 minutes later but after watching that replay ive got a new found respect for this guy

this guy totally deserves #1 just from that replay alone
i doubt he reads the forums, but props to you piqliq , hopefully we can see more the creative play from you
ziz
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
203 Posts
November 30 2010 05:30 GMT
#130
I wish I were as good as PiqLiq
FlamingTurd
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1059 Posts
November 30 2010 05:30 GMT
#131
I've been wishing for a MMM nerf forever... hopefully as these stats continue like they have since beta Blizzard will eventually do something about it :'( QQ
Nerf MMMT!!! Liquid`Ret Hwaiting!!!
Phyrigian
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
New Zealand1332 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-30 08:48:49
November 30 2010 05:31 GMT
#132
--- Nuked ---
stroggos
Profile Joined February 2009
New Zealand1543 Posts
November 30 2010 05:34 GMT
#133
On November 30 2010 14:09 Whomp wrote:
I'm not so upset at the player as I'm upset that how effective "cheese" is. I don't even coin it cheese anymore as you can fully know a player is gonna do some bullshit and it'll still work a good portion of the time. Grats to PiQliQ for teaching us a valuable lesson...


cheese isnt that effective, i think it's much harder to get to rank 1 cheesing than a solid build order mix that is mostly standard.
hi
sl0w
Profile Joined July 2010
United States447 Posts
November 30 2010 05:39 GMT
#134
On November 30 2010 12:56 Pervect wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2010 12:52 flodeskum wrote:
I love PiQLiQ, he's the reason I watch CatZ's channel as CatZ seems to be on a special ladder where 70% of his games are against Mankeez and PiQLiQ.

PiQLiQ must just play a lot/at the same time as CatZ/Mini because Mini gets this dude like 4 times in a row half the time I watch him


Or he could be watching Mini's stream and intentionally queuing at the same time to play him. Even Mini admits that he owns him.
hiyo_bye
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States737 Posts
November 30 2010 05:46 GMT
#135
I'm curious:

Poll: Better Cheeser?

ActionJesus (26)
 
59%

PiQliQ (18)
 
41%

44 total votes

Your vote: Better Cheeser?

(Vote): PiQliQ
(Vote): ActionJesus


Random
ziz
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
203 Posts
November 30 2010 05:52 GMT
#136
On November 30 2010 14:39 motus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2010 12:56 Pervect wrote:
On November 30 2010 12:52 flodeskum wrote:
I love PiQLiQ, he's the reason I watch CatZ's channel as CatZ seems to be on a special ladder where 70% of his games are against Mankeez and PiQLiQ.

PiQLiQ must just play a lot/at the same time as CatZ/Mini because Mini gets this dude like 4 times in a row half the time I watch him


Or he could be watching Mini's stream and intentionally queuing at the same time to play him. Even Mini admits that he owns him.


who owns who?
endlives
Profile Joined November 2010
28 Posts
November 30 2010 06:36 GMT
#137
Dunno if anyone else feels the way I do about it but here are the numbers that matter..

Win/Loss Ratio%:

LiquidHuk-73.81%
EGIdra- 73.46%
Select- 72.31%
Rootqxc- 71.25%

Alot of other top 200 are in the mid 60% range but most in the 50% ehhhhhhh spamming games not impressive
Drazzzt
Profile Joined September 2002
Germany999 Posts
November 30 2010 07:08 GMT
#138
lol @ all the hate about piqliq. I saw him playing some great great games as terran vs mini's protoss and it definitely was no cheese at all. He played pretty damn solid and had great harass/micro skills, don't know much about his macro though, but he looked really crisp.
Be Nice, Be Fair, Be Mannered.
Nexic
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States729 Posts
November 30 2010 07:22 GMT
#139
On November 30 2010 14:52 ziz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2010 14:39 motus wrote:
On November 30 2010 12:56 Pervect wrote:
On November 30 2010 12:52 flodeskum wrote:
I love PiQLiQ, he's the reason I watch CatZ's channel as CatZ seems to be on a special ladder where 70% of his games are against Mankeez and PiQLiQ.

PiQLiQ must just play a lot/at the same time as CatZ/Mini because Mini gets this dude like 4 times in a row half the time I watch him


Or he could be watching Mini's stream and intentionally queuing at the same time to play him. Even Mini admits that he owns him.


who owns who?
think about it. tip: one option makes no sense
Nimic
Profile Joined September 2010
Norway1360 Posts
November 30 2010 07:24 GMT
#140
On November 30 2010 15:36 endlives wrote:
Dunno if anyone else feels the way I do about it but here are the numbers that matter..

Win/Loss Ratio%:

LiquidHuk-73.81%
EGIdra- 73.46%
Select- 72.31%
Rootqxc- 71.25%

Alot of other top 200 are in the mid 60% range but most in the 50% ehhhhhhh spamming games not impressive


DeMusliM is 77% on EU, which is frankly obscene.
FuRong
Profile Joined April 2010
New Zealand3089 Posts
November 30 2010 07:29 GMT
#141
Nice to see Kowi in the top 10, NZ fighting!
Don't hate the player, hate the game
johngalt90
Profile Joined May 2010
United States357 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-30 08:15:14
November 30 2010 08:13 GMT
#142
yea it depends on if you use only your refined bo's. i dont have a mega huge network of people to play against so i have to practice new strats on the ladder. also huk and idra have smurf accounts so they only play their refined highly practiced strats. they are badass but we would probably see more people with very slanted win %.
kind of sucks ladder points have become irrelevant, think blizzard needs to fix the ladder system for diamond at the very least.
edit: forgot to quote this:
Dunno if anyone else feels the way I do about it but here are the numbers that matter..

Win/Loss Ratio%:

LiquidHuk-73.81%
EGIdra- 73.46%
Select- 72.31%
Rootqxc- 71.25%

Alot of other top 200 are in the mid 60% range but most in the 50% ehhhhhhh spamming games not impressive
fuck the haters
WAAA
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
New Zealand291 Posts
November 30 2010 08:25 GMT
#143
His game on metal vs mini is very awsome, I been wondering what to do vs protoss late game and maybe makeing PFs everywhere is the answer xD

As for his playstyle.. as grubby once said: lameing is just another word for playing good.
bLuR
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada625 Posts
November 30 2010 08:36 GMT
#144
PiQLiQ cheesed his way to #1
Sadistx
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Zimbabwe5568 Posts
November 30 2010 08:51 GMT
#145
People still saying cheese like it's bad.

Cheese is awesome food.
Cheese is #4 in Top 200.
Cheese lets you win vs better players.
Cheese is how Boxer got into OSL finals.
Cheese is the bane of Gracken.

Given the current maps, I'm not surprised people choose to cheese. Can't blame people for trying to win
psion0011
Profile Joined December 2008
Canada720 Posts
November 30 2010 13:41 GMT
#146
I'm surprised there are so many scrubs on a site dedicated to competitive gaming. Making up your own rules and restrictions so you feel better about yourself. Does no one remember playing to win anymore? Old stuff but http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html
Puosu
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
6985 Posts
November 30 2010 13:43 GMT
#147
On November 30 2010 22:41 psion0011 wrote:
I'm surprised there are so many scrubs on a site dedicated to competitive gaming. Making up your own rules and restrictions so you feel better about yourself. Does no one remember playing to win anymore? Old stuff but http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html

You're going to have a hard time finding anyone on TL who gives a shit about what Sirlin says after his idiotic comments about SC.
psion0011
Profile Joined December 2008
Canada720 Posts
November 30 2010 13:44 GMT
#148
On November 30 2010 22:43 Puosu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2010 22:41 psion0011 wrote:
I'm surprised there are so many scrubs on a site dedicated to competitive gaming. Making up your own rules and restrictions so you feel better about yourself. Does no one remember playing to win anymore? Old stuff but http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html

You're going to have a hard time finding anyone on TL who gives a shit about what Sirlin says after his idiotic comments about SC.

What did he say?
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-30 13:56:49
November 30 2010 13:56 GMT
#149
I love cheesers. You need to practice against it, its just as viable as normal strats. I hate how foreigners seem to have a sort of honour code against cheesing. Koreans integrate allins and cheese into their repertoire and many a foreigner got knocked out of GSL because of cheese. (TLO for example)

Say what you want about sirlin, playing to win is absolutely integral to the development of the game.
Sfydjklm
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
United States9218 Posts
November 30 2010 13:56 GMT
#150
On November 30 2010 17:51 Sadistx wrote:
People still saying cheese like it's bad.

Cheese is awesome food.
Cheese is #4 in Top 200.
Cheese lets you win vs better players.
Cheese is how Boxer got into OSL finals.
Cheese is the bane of Gracken.

Given the current maps, I'm not surprised people choose to cheese. Can't blame people for trying to win

I'm actually lactose intolerant.
So with me, its personal.

And PiQLiQ is not creative at all. He does the same shit over and over again.
If you need a new cheese hero, a neo-tlo of cheese if you will, RuFF is your man.
RuFF is just as irritating as PiQLiQ in cheesiness but at least after a game vs him you can go "mmm i never seen that shit before." Not to mention he is capable of expanding.
RuFF for governor of Wisconsin!
twitter.com/therealdhalism | "Trying out Z = lots of losses vs inferior players until you figure out how to do it well (if it even works)."- Liquid'Tyler
Sfydjklm
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
United States9218 Posts
November 30 2010 14:06 GMT
#151
On November 30 2010 22:56 Slayer91 wrote:
I love cheesers. You need to practice against it, its just as viable as normal strats. I hate how foreigners seem to have a sort of honour code against cheesing. Koreans integrate allins and cheese into their repertoire and many a foreigner got knocked out of GSL because of cheese. (TLO for example)

Say what you want about sirlin, playing to win is absolutely integral to the development of the game.

people hate on piqliq because he epitomizes everything people hate. the power of cheese, the percieved imbalances, teh volatility of the game. And most importantly doubt in foreigner scene; if we allow people like him take nr1 spots are we already miles behind?
twitter.com/therealdhalism | "Trying out Z = lots of losses vs inferior players until you figure out how to do it well (if it even works)."- Liquid'Tyler
Ftrunkz
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Australia2474 Posts
November 30 2010 14:17 GMT
#152
On November 30 2010 08:25 FataLe wrote:
Yeaaa Kowiiiiiii #7!
You baller, you.

Anyway I've seen PiQLiQ play. He might be cheesy but that does not mean he isn't solid. Kids crazy good. His lategame is fully abusive of Terran which is good. Play your race to it's potential right? Not what other people deem "proper" or "good" play. Kid doesn't care, that's why he's #1 and your not.

the fact your a kowi fan, then go onto defend people that do nothing but cheese, does nothing but make me smile.
@NvPinder on twitter | Member of Gamecom Nv | http://www.clan-ta.com | http://www.youtube.com/user/ftrunkz | http://www.twitchtv.com/xghpinder
Firereaver
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
India1701 Posts
November 30 2010 14:25 GMT
#153
On November 30 2010 06:17 Whiplash wrote:
Rank 136 wooh ^^ moving on up!

Go Whiplash! Go vT!
"They drone drone drone , me win" - JangMinChul(Iron/oGsMC)
mcleod
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada350 Posts
November 30 2010 17:48 GMT
#154
On November 30 2010 22:56 Sfydjklm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2010 17:51 Sadistx wrote:
People still saying cheese like it's bad.

Cheese is awesome food.
Cheese is #4 in Top 200.
Cheese lets you win vs better players.
Cheese is how Boxer got into OSL finals.
Cheese is the bane of Gracken.

Given the current maps, I'm not surprised people choose to cheese. Can't blame people for trying to win

I'm actually lactose intolerant.
So with me, its personal.

And PiQLiQ is not creative at all. He does the same shit over and over again.
If you need a new cheese hero, a neo-tlo of cheese if you will, RuFF is your man.
RuFF is just as irritating as PiQLiQ in cheesiness but at least after a game vs him you can go "mmm i never seen that shit before." Not to mention he is capable of expanding.
RuFF for governor of Wisconsin!


go watch the replay of PiqLiq vs Mini where he goes mass PF
I had a pretty negative view PiqLiq but after watching a few replays ive been shown hes actually quite solid and creative. as much as i hate losing to his "cheeses" i gotta give props to where they are due

Please dont bring up Ruff, this guy is a joke , hes not even creative , he just all ins with his scvs and cheeses non stop with no follow ups ( atleast from my expierience in TvT ) any game that goes over 5 minutes and he gets dominated
Sfydjklm
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
United States9218 Posts
November 30 2010 18:37 GMT
#155
On December 01 2010 02:48 mcleod wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2010 22:56 Sfydjklm wrote:
On November 30 2010 17:51 Sadistx wrote:
People still saying cheese like it's bad.

Cheese is awesome food.
Cheese is #4 in Top 200.
Cheese lets you win vs better players.
Cheese is how Boxer got into OSL finals.
Cheese is the bane of Gracken.

Given the current maps, I'm not surprised people choose to cheese. Can't blame people for trying to win

I'm actually lactose intolerant.
So with me, its personal.

And PiQLiQ is not creative at all. He does the same shit over and over again.
If you need a new cheese hero, a neo-tlo of cheese if you will, RuFF is your man.
RuFF is just as irritating as PiQLiQ in cheesiness but at least after a game vs him you can go "mmm i never seen that shit before." Not to mention he is capable of expanding.
RuFF for governor of Wisconsin!


go watch the replay of PiqLiq vs Mini where he goes mass PF
I had a pretty negative view PiqLiq but after watching a few replays ive been shown hes actually quite solid and creative. as much as i hate losing to his "cheeses" i gotta give props to where they are due

Please dont bring up Ruff, this guy is a joke , hes not even creative , he just all ins with his scvs and cheeses non stop with no follow ups ( atleast from my expierience in TvT ) any game that goes over 5 minutes and he gets dominated

well, its much easier to cheese tvz creatively then it is tvt.
twitter.com/therealdhalism | "Trying out Z = lots of losses vs inferior players until you figure out how to do it well (if it even works)."- Liquid'Tyler
Ncinerate
Profile Joined October 2010
172 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-30 18:44:14
November 30 2010 18:42 GMT
#156
I guess I don't understand everyone's definition of "cheese" when it comes to PiqLiq. Almost every game I look at in his game history is a long one (he seems fond of 30 minute+ games), and every replay I can find with him in it is a long wild ride. Maybe he used to be a heavy cheeser, but I'm not seeing it as much in his recent game history... Beyond that, his match history is littered with pro-level names that he's beaten and lost to. Personally, I'd love to see this guy compete in a tournament and see no reason why his oddball style wouldn't be successful. It works on the ladder vs these pros, I'd imagine it could work in person vs the same people (assuming he can handle the whole in-person high pressure situations - not everyone can manage that). If anything, I'd bet watching him play would be entertaining as he pulled off crazy strategy after crazy strategy.

He is nuts though. His style is absolutely padded room quality. Mass PF? Check. 12 ghosts running around sniping things? Check. Nukes and ravens and T1 armies beating mass colossus with sentry backup? Why not! Watching his replays is like watching me toy with a bronze league player. It's like he decides to attempt to win with the wackiest strategy possible and just runs with it. The guy doesn't seem to have a build order, he just goes with the flow.

Anyway, he's earned his spot on the ladder. Smacking down high 2k-low 3k diamonds at an above 50% ratio is proof of skill in my book.
oZii
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1198 Posts
November 30 2010 19:58 GMT
#157
If PiqLiq is a cheeser or terrible or whatever and people disagree. The crazy thing is there are alot of posts in here and none of them are from PiQLiQ where is claiming to be the best in the world or unbeatable. Its everyone not liking him just cause they don't like his tactics. He might not even care about ladder for all we know. If he cheese with no remorse then who says he cares about traditional things dealing with SC like the ladder.
frogmelter
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States971 Posts
November 30 2010 20:32 GMT
#158
On December 01 2010 04:58 oZii wrote:
If PiqLiq is a cheeser or terrible or whatever and people disagree. The crazy thing is there are alot of posts in here and none of them are from PiQLiQ where is claiming to be the best in the world or unbeatable. Its everyone not liking him just cause they don't like his tactics. He might not even care about ladder for all we know. If he cheese with no remorse then who says he cares about traditional things dealing with SC like the ladder.


Incorrect. White-Ra is known for his cheesy plays but he is MANNER.

PiqLiq says shit to you just to piss you off and in addition to his cheesy plays, people dislike him
TL+ Member
GreEny K
Profile Joined February 2008
Germany7312 Posts
November 30 2010 20:38 GMT
#159
On November 30 2010 06:11 CruelZeratul wrote:
29. EGiNcontroL, new Korean powers?
Tyler still not number one btw


Why should he be? If I know anything about the way Nony plays it's that he doesn't mass ladder games.
Why would you ever choose failure, when success is an option.
Cel.erity
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States4890 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-30 20:59:00
November 30 2010 20:58 GMT
#160
All the people hating on PiQliQ, I have a poker analogy (cause poker is all I know, haha). Ok, bear with me here.

Daniel Negreanu is an enormously successful poker pro (also a very nice guy). However, even though Daniel is top 5 in lifetime tournament winnings, and has a lot of titles, he is nowhere near the top 5 players in the world. In fact, any of the top 100 players in the world would be vastly favored in heads-up against Daniel, and Daniel avoids the big games for that reason. He did have a little open challenge going for awhile, but that didn't end well.

The point is, he makes his money from weak players. He knows where his bread is buttered and he stays in the zone, and profits from it. He may not be top 10 in the world, but he is way better at exploiting weak players than those top 10 are. SC2 ladder works the same way, you can be #1 without being better than #2, that's just the way it is. PiQliQ is better than everybody else at laddering, but not necessarily at Starcraft, and there's nothing wrong with that.
We found Dove in a soapless place.
LuckyFool
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States9015 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-30 21:00:41
November 30 2010 21:00 GMT
#161
Why is there so much talk about PiQliQ lol he just massgames, he's not really that good and I doubt he will win any big tournaments anytime soon. it doesn't prove the ladders bad it doesn't make anything stupid he's just at the top of the ladder right now cuz he's played like 2500 games and won enough. Big whoop.
oZii
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1198 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-30 21:08:27
November 30 2010 21:03 GMT
#162
On December 01 2010 05:32 frogmelter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2010 04:58 oZii wrote:
If PiqLiq is a cheeser or terrible or whatever and people disagree. The crazy thing is there are alot of posts in here and none of them are from PiQLiQ where is claiming to be the best in the world or unbeatable. Its everyone not liking him just cause they don't like his tactics. He might not even care about ladder for all we know. If he cheese with no remorse then who says he cares about traditional things dealing with SC like the ladder.


Incorrect. White-Ra is known for his cheesy plays but he is MANNER.

PiqLiq says shit to you just to piss you off and in addition to his cheesy plays, people dislike him


Yea manner or not the posts about PiQLiQ are people bashing him saying how he is terrible not good bad so on and so on. PiQLiQ is not in this thread saying IM AM THE BEST. He just plays the ladder and has a bad attitude. That should be it end of story. Its like 8 Pages devoted to 1 guy when the thread title isn't Does PiQLiQ Suck? It be different if he came in here and trolled people on TL or in this this thread. He is not. There are posts in here talking about his tactics his build orders and his cheesy play without even mentioning his BM. Look at last weeks Top 200 people started getting on Katari because he 4 gates. Its always hate every week on the number 1 player unless its someone from TL or Someone people like. Thats the point I am trying to make everyone always hates on the #1 because they disagree just with there tactics even if they have a good attitude.

It is just that he is number 1 and has a bad attitude nothing more nothing less. You can't take those wins away from him and after that many games he is going to probably still play that way no matter what. He probably isnt going to go anywhere at the top of the ladder for a while either.
oZii
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1198 Posts
November 30 2010 21:05 GMT
#163
On December 01 2010 06:00 LuckyFool wrote:
Why is there so much talk about PiQliQ lol he just massgames, he's not really that good and I doubt he will win any big tournaments anytime soon. it doesn't prove the ladders bad it doesn't make anything stupid he's just at the top of the ladder right now cuz he's played like 2500 games and won enough. Big whoop.



Agreed

To many people are so fixated on his position on the ladder like he won GSL being that high. It is just what it is alot of games and won enough thats it.
Zdrastochye
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Ivory Coast6262 Posts
November 30 2010 21:19 GMT
#164
9 pages of pretty much everyone missing the topic.

Top of the US ladder just means you're top of the US ladder. It doesn't mean anything without context of how you're playing. Obviously PiQliQ is a cheeser who has bm, but that's what got him top of the US ladder. Most people posting in this thread are over-analyzing what it means to be in the top 200, but I'm sure any sensible person would say it's NOT a testament to a player's skill.

On a happier note... I got nothing.
Hey! How you doin'?
FindingPride
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States1001 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-30 21:28:28
November 30 2010 21:26 GMT
#165
On December 01 2010 05:58 Cel.erity wrote:
All the people hating on PiQliQ, I have a poker analogy (cause poker is all I know, haha). Ok, bear with me here.

Daniel Negreanu is an enormously successful poker pro (also a very nice guy). However, even though Daniel is top 5 in lifetime tournament winnings, and has a lot of titles, he is nowhere near the top 5 players in the world. In fact, any of the top 100 players in the world would be vastly favored in heads-up against Daniel, and Daniel avoids the big games for that reason. He did have a little open challenge going for awhile, but that didn't end well.

The point is, he makes his money from weak players. He knows where his bread is buttered and he stays in the zone, and profits from it. He may not be top 10 in the world, but he is way better at exploiting weak players than those top 10 are. SC2 ladder works the same way, you can be #1 without being better than #2, that's just the way it is. PiQliQ is better than everybody else at laddering, but not necessarily at Starcraft, and there's nothing wrong with that.

He uses a strat that is counter productive because its countered by nothing but scouting and adaption alone. He can't improve and he cant win tourneys because of this. He's a ladder player and thats all he will ever be.
Cel.erity
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States4890 Posts
November 30 2010 21:41 GMT
#166
On December 01 2010 06:26 FindingPride wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2010 05:58 Cel.erity wrote:
All the people hating on PiQliQ, I have a poker analogy (cause poker is all I know, haha). Ok, bear with me here.

Daniel Negreanu is an enormously successful poker pro (also a very nice guy). However, even though Daniel is top 5 in lifetime tournament winnings, and has a lot of titles, he is nowhere near the top 5 players in the world. In fact, any of the top 100 players in the world would be vastly favored in heads-up against Daniel, and Daniel avoids the big games for that reason. He did have a little open challenge going for awhile, but that didn't end well.

The point is, he makes his money from weak players. He knows where his bread is buttered and he stays in the zone, and profits from it. He may not be top 10 in the world, but he is way better at exploiting weak players than those top 10 are. SC2 ladder works the same way, you can be #1 without being better than #2, that's just the way it is. PiQliQ is better than everybody else at laddering, but not necessarily at Starcraft, and there's nothing wrong with that.

He uses a strat that is counter productive because its countered by nothing but scouting and adaption alone. He can't improve and he cant win tourneys because of this. He's a ladder player and thats all he will ever be.


So? That's exactly what I said. He's the best at laddering, not the best at Starcraft, thus he is #1 on the ladder. He reached his goal. Leave him alone.
We found Dove in a soapless place.
Leviwtf
Profile Joined October 2010
174 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-30 21:46:44
November 30 2010 21:44 GMT
#167
I don't understand how people say PiQliQ can't be a tournament player when to the best of my knowledge, he has never been in a tournament. I feel his style of play would be perfect for a tournament setting since so many people are instantly thrown off by playing against builds they have never played against before, this is especially apparent in the GSL and would hold true for any other tournament as well. So many players have so much practice at a macro game, using standard builds, standard counters, and through sheer practice are good. But how many can think on their feet and adapt during a game to something they've never seen before? It is much more difficult.

Also, being known as a cheeser/being able to "cheese" is a great advantage as it keeps your opponent honest so they don't shortcut making units in order to expand/macro a little faster. 6 Pools have been effective at the GSL level and that is the most basic cheese in the game imo. You play to your strengths not every's strength is generic macro play, 1 base all ins, cheeses, are very good builds to have for ladder and tournament play. Some might even argue that FE are the macro form of cheese.

Note: I am not advocating cheesing, just staying that "all-ins" as I call them have a place in SC2.

I also think Win/Loss ratio is a much better way to rank players although there should be a min number of games played, as 65% win with 500 games played is much better than 70% win of 100 games player imo. If you go by this then PiQliQ doesn't seem so great.
Lupita
Profile Joined September 2010
United States290 Posts
November 30 2010 22:11 GMT
#168
Everyone knows that Piqliq is the NA smurf of Tasteless. Grats on #1 tasteless.
Do, or do not, there is no try...
Sfydjklm
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
United States9218 Posts
November 30 2010 22:28 GMT
#169
On December 01 2010 05:58 Cel.erity wrote:
All the people hating on PiQliQ, I have a poker analogy (cause poker is all I know, haha). Ok, bear with me here.

Daniel Negreanu is an enormously successful poker pro (also a very nice guy). However, even though Daniel is top 5 in lifetime tournament winnings, and has a lot of titles, he is nowhere near the top 5 players in the world. In fact, any of the top 100 players in the world would be vastly favored in heads-up against Daniel, and Daniel avoids the big games for that reason. He did have a little open challenge going for awhile, but that didn't end well.

The point is, he makes his money from weak players. He knows where his bread is buttered and he stays in the zone, and profits from it. He may not be top 10 in the world, but he is way better at exploiting weak players than those top 10 are. SC2 ladder works the same way, you can be #1 without being better than #2, that's just the way it is. PiQliQ is better than everybody else at laddering, but not necessarily at Starcraft, and there's nothing wrong with that.

that analogy doesnt work.
Negreanu=Boxer in SCBW.
He was good once but once the game evolved he couldnt hang.
twitter.com/therealdhalism | "Trying out Z = lots of losses vs inferior players until you figure out how to do it well (if it even works)."- Liquid'Tyler
Sfydjklm
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
United States9218 Posts
November 30 2010 22:30 GMT
#170
On December 01 2010 05:32 frogmelter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2010 04:58 oZii wrote:
If PiqLiq is a cheeser or terrible or whatever and people disagree. The crazy thing is there are alot of posts in here and none of them are from PiQLiQ where is claiming to be the best in the world or unbeatable. Its everyone not liking him just cause they don't like his tactics. He might not even care about ladder for all we know. If he cheese with no remorse then who says he cares about traditional things dealing with SC like the ladder.


Incorrect. White-Ra is known for his cheesy plays but he is MANNER.

PiqLiq says shit to you just to piss you off and in addition to his cheesy plays, people dislike him

-_-
this guy just compared white-ra's playstyle to piqliq.
Ban imo.
twitter.com/therealdhalism | "Trying out Z = lots of losses vs inferior players until you figure out how to do it well (if it even works)."- Liquid'Tyler
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8748 Posts
November 30 2010 23:19 GMT
#171
On December 01 2010 06:41 Cel.erity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2010 06:26 FindingPride wrote:
On December 01 2010 05:58 Cel.erity wrote:
All the people hating on PiQliQ, I have a poker analogy (cause poker is all I know, haha). Ok, bear with me here.

Daniel Negreanu is an enormously successful poker pro (also a very nice guy). However, even though Daniel is top 5 in lifetime tournament winnings, and has a lot of titles, he is nowhere near the top 5 players in the world. In fact, any of the top 100 players in the world would be vastly favored in heads-up against Daniel, and Daniel avoids the big games for that reason. He did have a little open challenge going for awhile, but that didn't end well.

The point is, he makes his money from weak players. He knows where his bread is buttered and he stays in the zone, and profits from it. He may not be top 10 in the world, but he is way better at exploiting weak players than those top 10 are. SC2 ladder works the same way, you can be #1 without being better than #2, that's just the way it is. PiQliQ is better than everybody else at laddering, but not necessarily at Starcraft, and there's nothing wrong with that.

He uses a strat that is counter productive because its countered by nothing but scouting and adaption alone. He can't improve and he cant win tourneys because of this. He's a ladder player and thats all he will ever be.


So? That's exactly what I said. He's the best at laddering, not the best at Starcraft, thus he is #1 on the ladder. He reached his goal. Leave him alone.

not every response is in disagreement... findingpride described the situation in a straightforward way which some will find more useful than your poker detour
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
MICHELLE
Profile Joined June 2010
Korea (South)199 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-30 23:28:13
November 30 2010 23:25 GMT
#172
On November 30 2010 06:16 mcleod wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2010 05:54 oZii wrote:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/1239839

This is North America Top 200 I forgot to add NA in the Title sorry

Top 10 11.29.2010

W L
1 PiQLiQ 1314 1029
2 Katari 1260 772
3 TTOne 641 373
4 Cheese 405 242
5 BrokenRhythm 940 757
6 ZpuX 169 96
7 Kowi 750 589
8 dde 349 244
9 ROOTdrewbie 291 143
10 ROOTqxc 347 140


I have seen PiQLiQ on Mini's stream always epic battles



Previous Top 200 NA
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=171012

Top 10 11.22.2010

W L
1 Katari 1168 711
2 TTOne 617 358
3 SeleCT 551 211
4 AlLaboUtyOu 673 471
5 Cheese 392 236
6 MasterAsia 362 233
7 Boyardee 378 202
8 ViBE 338 224
9 Gretorp 343 235
10 InflowMini 998 841





Total Race Distribution

Terran - 85 (No Change)

Zerg - 53(Down from 59)

Protoss - 51(Up from 46)

Random - 11(Up from 10)

MOD I forgot to add NA in the Title if a Mod could edit that please.

Piqliq #1

lol and this is why ladder means nothing

he's an ok player , but literally cheeses every single game and when i say "cheeses" i dont mean strong 1 base play, i mean he either goes cannon rush/DT/mass void ray





You are freaking clueless, he is a terran player and I played him several time, he never cheesed


User was banned for this post.
Artosis, he's like that moss that grows on a tree that lets you know where the sun is
Zelniq
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States7166 Posts
November 30 2010 23:28 GMT
#173
i'll counter that with i've played him like 15+ times and 100% of them he cheesed
ModeratorBlame yourself or God
SoLaR[i.C]
Profile Blog Joined August 2003
United States2969 Posts
November 30 2010 23:33 GMT
#174
ZpuX at #6 with only 265 games played. Dude's a total baller.
Lalgee
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom65 Posts
December 02 2010 02:18 GMT
#175
PiQLiQ currently playing zerg, and massing spine crawlers and taking islands on steppes etc etc. what a ballaaaaa
"That's Lal-Genius"
Thermia
Profile Joined August 2010
United States866 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-02 02:44:38
December 02 2010 02:42 GMT
#176
Yeah, he's getting repeatedly stomped by mini, nice to see it go the other way. Mini went from "even" to "favored" in the games they've played on his stream so far lol.
Sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling. IGN: Mierin
haffy
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom430 Posts
December 03 2010 19:48 GMT
#177

On December 01 2010 05:58 Cel.erity wrote:
All the people hating on PiQliQ, I have a poker analogy (cause poker is all I know, haha). Ok, bear with me here.

Daniel Negreanu is an enormously successful poker pro (also a very nice guy). However, even though Daniel is top 5 in lifetime tournament winnings, and has a lot of titles, he is nowhere near the top 5 players in the world. In fact, any of the top 100 players in the world would be vastly favored in heads-up against Daniel, and Daniel avoids the big games for that reason. He did have a little open challenge going for awhile, but that didn't end well.

The point is, he makes his money from weak players. He knows where his bread is buttered and he stays in the zone, and profits from it. He may not be top 10 in the world, but he is way better at exploiting weak players than those top 10 are. SC2 ladder works the same way, you can be #1 without being better than #2, that's just the way it is. PiQliQ is better than everybody else at laddering, but not necessarily at Starcraft, and there's nothing wrong with that.

that analogy doesnt work.
Negreanu=Boxer in SCBW.
He was good once but once the game evolved he couldnt hang.[/QUOTE]

lol Negreanu was never considered a top player at all. Yes in tornaments he was good and TV made him out be a god but he was never considered the best at any form of poker. He also likes it up the bum.... Apparently.
skipdog172
Profile Joined June 2010
United States331 Posts
December 05 2010 04:51 GMT
#178
I just watched TT1 get crushed on his stream in a completely standard game by PiQliQ. No major blunders(like a rare game ending mistake that rarely happens) by TT1 that I could clearly see. He made some micro mistakes and PiQliQ didn't. No cheesy gimmics. TT1 just got outplayed.

It seems like people are hating because PiQliQ experiments with a lot of crazy strategies and *gasp* perfects his various cheese on the ladder.

How does that make any sense?? Isn't that what everybody here always advocates? I can't understand how he could've played so few standard games to be so talented in his game vs. TT1. Some players say he only cheeses and my best guess is that they played him while he was practicing various cheese over and over.
KillerPlague
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1386 Posts
December 05 2010 04:56 GMT
#179
On December 01 2010 07:30 Sfydjklm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2010 05:32 frogmelter wrote:
On December 01 2010 04:58 oZii wrote:
If PiqLiq is a cheeser or terrible or whatever and people disagree. The crazy thing is there are alot of posts in here and none of them are from PiQLiQ where is claiming to be the best in the world or unbeatable. Its everyone not liking him just cause they don't like his tactics. He might not even care about ladder for all we know. If he cheese with no remorse then who says he cares about traditional things dealing with SC like the ladder.


Incorrect. White-Ra is known for his cheesy plays but he is MANNER.

PiqLiq says shit to you just to piss you off and in addition to his cheesy plays, people dislike him

-_-
this guy just compared white-ra's playstyle to piqliq.
Ban imo.


white ra at least during the beta when i used to watch a lot of his replays was* well known for his cheese (not to be confused with all-in, just catch opponent off gaurd). maybe once or twice in a bo7, but that was enough to freak his opponent out and make his opponent play standard and on their toes. no need for bans in this instance
Side 1: Why no dominant players with 90% win ratio Side 2: Nerf Side 1
SCC-Faust
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States3736 Posts
December 05 2010 04:59 GMT
#180
On December 05 2010 13:51 skipdog172 wrote:
I just watched TT1 get crushed on his stream in a completely standard game by PiQliQ. No major blunders(like a rare game ending mistake that rarely happens) by TT1 that I could clearly see. He made some micro mistakes and PiQliQ didn't. No cheesy gimmics. TT1 just got outplayed.


If you're talking about the Lost Temple game - you obviously missed the major blunder.
I want to fuck Soulkey with a Zelderan.
skipdog172
Profile Joined June 2010
United States331 Posts
December 05 2010 05:04 GMT
#181
On December 05 2010 13:59 SCC-Faust wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2010 13:51 skipdog172 wrote:
I just watched TT1 get crushed on his stream in a completely standard game by PiQliQ. No major blunders(like a rare game ending mistake that rarely happens) by TT1 that I could clearly see. He made some micro mistakes and PiQliQ didn't. No cheesy gimmics. TT1 just got outplayed.


If you're talking about the Lost Temple game - you obviously missed the major blunder.


I may have, what happened exactly?
SCC-Faust
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States3736 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-05 05:14:54
December 05 2010 05:14 GMT
#182
On December 05 2010 14:04 skipdog172 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2010 13:59 SCC-Faust wrote:
On December 05 2010 13:51 skipdog172 wrote:
I just watched TT1 get crushed on his stream in a completely standard game by PiQliQ. No major blunders(like a rare game ending mistake that rarely happens) by TT1 that I could clearly see. He made some micro mistakes and PiQliQ didn't. No cheesy gimmics. TT1 just got outplayed.


If you're talking about the Lost Temple game - you obviously missed the major blunder.


I may have, what happened exactly?


TT1 was going for a contain after unable trying to break through PiQliQ's ramp.
When PiQliQ moved down his ramp, TT1 missed the only forcefield he had and lost all his units to PiQliQ's bio force.
I want to fuck Soulkey with a Zelderan.
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10009 Posts
December 05 2010 20:13 GMT
#183
On December 05 2010 13:51 skipdog172 wrote:
I just watched TT1 get crushed on his stream in a completely standard game by PiQliQ. No major blunders(like a rare game ending mistake that rarely happens) by TT1 that I could clearly see. He made some micro mistakes and PiQliQ didn't. No cheesy gimmics. TT1 just got outplayed.

It seems like people are hating because PiQliQ experiments with a lot of crazy strategies and *gasp* perfects his various cheese on the ladder.

How does that make any sense?? Isn't that what everybody here always advocates? I can't understand how he could've played so few standard games to be so talented in his game vs. TT1. Some players say he only cheeses and my best guess is that they played him while he was practicing various cheese over and over.


wtf wat game were u watching
1) my 3g + vd rush didnt do any damage which put me behind economically(cus u have to probe cut for the build)
2) i messed up my ff on his ramp and he broke my contain
3) he killed my expansion
4) in the final battle i pressed hold position on my units lol
ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
danielzig
Profile Joined December 2010
32 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-06 04:57:42
December 06 2010 04:52 GMT
#184
As a fan I would love to see PiQLiQ in some tournies. I have watched several of his replays now and they were all very exciting because they are so atypical. Someone should invite him, it would be fun. Plus, him being "bad mannered" and coming up with unique strats gives him a kind of enigma.. love him or hate him.. the sport needs guys like that who blaze their own trails.
skipdog172
Profile Joined June 2010
United States331 Posts
December 06 2010 18:21 GMT
#185
On December 06 2010 05:13 TT1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2010 13:51 skipdog172 wrote:
I just watched TT1 get crushed on his stream in a completely standard game by PiQliQ. No major blunders(like a rare game ending mistake that rarely happens) by TT1 that I could clearly see. He made some micro mistakes and PiQliQ didn't. No cheesy gimmics. TT1 just got outplayed.

It seems like people are hating because PiQliQ experiments with a lot of crazy strategies and *gasp* perfects his various cheese on the ladder.

How does that make any sense?? Isn't that what everybody here always advocates? I can't understand how he could've played so few standard games to be so talented in his game vs. TT1. Some players say he only cheeses and my best guess is that they played him while he was practicing various cheese over and over.


wtf wat game were u watching
1) my 3g + vd rush didnt do any damage which put me behind economically(cus u have to probe cut for the build)
2) i messed up my ff on his ramp and he broke my contain
3) he killed my expansion
4) in the final battle i pressed hold position on my units lol


Hey, I'm not trying to bash you or your play!

You lost because you made mistakes and PiqLiq didn't. I'm not sure what the point of your excuses for losing are... you made mistakes. I don't see how your mistakes are somehow excusable or change the fact that you lost to PiqLiq in a standard game.

Your rush failed. You messed up a forcefield. He killed your expansion. You had a micro blunder in the final battle(which you may have very well lost anyways). We don't even know if you not making your mistake would have guaranteed you a victory.

These are the same mistakes that cost games in any setting. You were outplayed that game by Piqliq. I'm sorry if that hurts you to hear. It is true. It was just one game though and you probably beat him far more than he beats you.

The only point I was trying to make is that Piqliq looked very solid against a top top top player like yourself. Thus, it makes no sense to hear people bash him because he cheeses when he is very capable of beating top players in a standard game.
shouri
Profile Joined May 2010
90 Posts
December 06 2010 18:32 GMT
#186
Maybe I'll start hating him too when I see other people use medivacs to avoid feedback snipes on ghosts (or other people use ghosts at all).

He's definitely cheesy but he isn't all about cheesing either. I like watching him play terran against minigun although I don't like when piqliq plays protoss.

It's a lot better than watching minigun play drewbie and having drewbie complain about balance when he doesn't have a factory 20-30 minutes into the game.
Arcanne
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1519 Posts
December 06 2010 18:45 GMT
#187
the new ones up
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