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On October 27 2010 20:02 Shockk wrote:
Having criticized joonp earlier in this thread, I feel I have to defend him now. I still don't agree with his concept of the wallpaper not being decent fan art (which I think it is, despite the sexual undertone and only cursory connection to SC2).
But the amount of flak he's taking right now, especially on a personal level - that's unneccessary. The discussion's not even about the picture itself, but about the whole concept of fan art, and even if you don't agree with joonp's point of view, there's no need to overact like some people here do.
Calling his arguments "ridiculous" (@Unas) is just wrong, because they are well thought out after all. And suggesting a "hidden resent to sexuality" (@haflo) ... seriously, what did you smoke before posting?
His arguments are rediculous.
Let's examine:
"you have bad taste in art, and bad taste in everything if you think that is decent fan art"
There's just nothing there...
"Alright, the fact that it isn't fan art is not subjective, you're right, there's no way anyone could ever consider that decent fan art."
again, no substance...
"And the banshee pilot is NOT sexy in the game, are you kidding me bro? Just because it's a woman it is automatically "SEXY"? If that isn't the most sexist degrading shit I ever read."
I never said she was sexy because she was a woman... and even if I had, how would that be degrading?
Rediculous. All of it.
The woman is wearing a banshee pilot uniform. The art is based on a character from SC. This makes it fan art. There's really nothing to argue about. Joonp doesn't like the fan art. That's fine. But there's absolutely no reason to attack the artist. He's a classic troll. I probably shouldn't even acknowledge him, but I did.
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On October 27 2010 21:41 Hasire wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2010 21:34 gaizka wrote:
The image it's nice, I thought she was Samus. THIS is what I think when I see it. If you want to do fanart of the banshee pilot, do fanart of the banshee pilot. With the blue suit and the heals, this appears to be closer to Samus with recolored hair, not the Banshee pilot. But regardless, I am now going to get attacked for disliking the picture or something anyways, so I'm not even sure why I bothered to post.
No, you're going to get attacked for not reading the thread. OP said more than once that this is specifically the rogue banshee pilot from the single player game. She even posted her portrait:
![[image loading]](http://www.thecheekyduck.com/sc/portrait_bansheemercenary-large.jpg)
As you can see, she has a different color suit than the normal banshee pilot.
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Very well made! Thank you , i'd love more of these
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Do you have a DA page? If not, where do you post these amazing drawings so we can see newer and possibly better ones?
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[QUOTE]On October 27 2010 15:46 joonp wrote:
[QUOTE]On October 27 2010 08:44 Loophole wrote:
[QUOTE]On October 27 2010 06:53 Teivospylol wrote:
Jpoon or w/e has a point on the whole "relatedness to SC". While everything else he said was stupid you should take his criticism on that point better in order to make your work significant. Honestly its probably worth more to you than all these other people going "omG its aMaZiNg"
Obviously the picture is supposed to be focusing on the pilot, so I doubt you want the banshee to actually be more apparent (although imo it should be), but I would definately not be able to make the connection between "banshee pilot" and this picture unless someone actually pointed it out. Like the hair, the suit colour, and the generic background doesn't really scream anything "banshee". You could have added something like dominion decals to her suit and it would be clearer (also it would take the plainness out of the suit imo), thats just one example I quickly came up with.
Personally I think it would be pretty awesome if the background was like CHAR and BC's are exploding above.. but then you got this banshee pilot all like "w/e idc". Call it "ghost-riding" with clear emphasis on the pun. Thats prolly not in your artistic vision though
tlDR The picture in itself is pretty good, but like jpoon I wouldn't exactly call it starcraft
[/QUOTE]
And the banshee pilot is NOT sexy in the game, are you kidding me bro? Just because it's a woman it is automatically "SEXY"? If that isn't the most sexist degrading shit I ever read. Her suit is a bit bulky, and her helmet isn't a brimming arousing accessory. Saying she is sexy is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. In that video you posted she even has a tube coming out of her throat. I don't know who finds that sexy.[/QUOTE]
LOL? not hot? u kidding? wow.
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On October 27 2010 22:30 Loophole wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2010 20:02 Shockk wrote:
Having criticized joonp earlier in this thread, I feel I have to defend him now. I still don't agree with his concept of the wallpaper not being decent fan art (which I think it is, despite the sexual undertone and only cursory connection to SC2).
But the amount of flak he's taking right now, especially on a personal level - that's unneccessary. The discussion's not even about the picture itself, but about the whole concept of fan art, and even if you don't agree with joonp's point of view, there's no need to overact like some people here do.
Calling his arguments "ridiculous" (@Unas) is just wrong, because they are well thought out after all. And suggesting a "hidden resent to sexuality" (@haflo) ... seriously, what did you smoke before posting? His arguments are rediculous. Let's examine: "you have bad taste in art, and bad taste in everything if you think that is decent fan art" There's just nothing there... "Alright, the fact that it isn't fan art is not subjective, you're right, there's no way anyone could ever consider that decent fan art." again, no substance... "And the banshee pilot is NOT sexy in the game, are you kidding me bro? Just because it's a woman it is automatically "SEXY"? If that isn't the most sexist degrading shit I ever read." I never said she was sexy because she was a woman... and even if I had, how would that be degrading? Rediculous. All of it. The woman is wearing a banshee pilot uniform. The art is based on a character from SC. This makes it fan art. There's really nothing to argue about. Joonp doesn't like the fan art. That's fine. But there's absolutely no reason to attack the artist. He's a classic troll. I probably shouldn't even acknowledge him, but I did.
If you honestly can not grasp the concept of why calling any given woman sexy for the sake of her womanhood as degrading then I'm not even going to bother explaining anything to you, as you have already proven to be an idiot, as are most people ITT who will literally praise anything regardless of its integrity. (like you, if you didn't get the hint)
And no, I don't have a hidden resentment towards sexuality, now THAT is truly ridiculous. I do, however, have a resentment for people who abuse and overuse sexuality and the people who endlessly respond to it like mindless apes without self control.
On October 28 2010 09:49 tacrats wrote:
LOL? not hot? u kidding? wow.
No, she isn't hot. I'm sorry I'm not a sex starved teenager like you who finds any woman he lays his eyes on as "hot".
On October 27 2010 19:06 haflo wrote:
joonp you clearly have some deep hidden resent to sexuality .
i do strongly believe you should talk it up with a professional instead of spamming your shit on a very talented artist thread .
understand that what make a community great is talented people putting their time toward the subject , and enriching the word , may it be fan art, modding , maps , casting , or great forums and knowledge base (<3 TL) .
even if its not your style , which is fine , recognize the talent and time put into it appreciate it and move on . you don't have to love it , but you should respect it as a part of the community .
you love ugly aliens blowing up in space . good put that on your desktop and leave us alone.
for cheekyduck i very much hoping to see more content from you , i do love your work .
as for the commentating , as a personal taste , i would prefer seeing you trying to dual cast with a more analytic serious style commentator .
i think both you and your friend leaning to more the more fun bright light side , and i would personnally like to see balance
That isn't what makes a community great. Creating mindless idiotic things does not enrich anything.
That's like saying since "talented" people put a lot of time into making porn it enriches the world.
Why would I appreciate it just because time was put into it? Hitler put time into murdering millions of people, should I appreciate that? He was also very talented at it. He was a talented person who put time into it, that doesn't justify it as correct.
I never said I love ugly aliens blowing up in space. Where did I say that? You're clearly a moron with nothing real to say about anything I've been saying except ranting nonsensically like the idiot you are.
On October 27 2010 20:59 bbsss wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2010 20:02 Shockk wrote:
Having criticized joonp earlier in this thread, I feel I have to defend him now. I still don't agree with his concept of the wallpaper not being decent fan art (which I think it is, despite the sexual undertone and only cursory connection to SC2).
But the amount of flak he's taking right now, especially on a personal level - that's unneccessary. The discussion's not even about the picture itself, but about the whole concept of fan art, and even if you don't agree with joonp's point of view, there's no need to overact like some people here do.
Calling his arguments "ridiculous" (@Unas) is just wrong, because they are well thought out after all. And suggesting a "hidden resent to sexuality" (@haflo) ... seriously, what did you smoke before posting? His arguments are not thought out well at all. What are you smoking? His assumption that women are only sexy because of the clothing they wear is ridiculous.
I never made any assumptions about women only being sexy because of clothing, rofl your arguments are actually ridiculous, not mine. But yes, clothing CAN have an effect on the sexiness and attractiveness of a person. Do you really think that's a ridiculous concept? ROFL, jesus christ the people on this board.
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So, nothing personal, heh?
You really need to get over yourself. I mean, what are you talking about?
Just let the folk like what it wanna like.
You don't have to like it, but you friggin have to tolerate it.
So, please, if you don't have anything to say besides your antisexual flaming, just shut up. I personally don't care for this "women aren't sexsymbols herpderp" shit. If a woman wants to look sexy overall, then it is, because she want it. You can't wear hotpants and then expect that no one would look at you.
So what? Don't you look after good looking women when you walk the street? No? Maybe you're gay? (I don't have anything against that.. i just wanna figure out, what it is that makes you so aggressive about this shit.)
And no, it has nothing to do with "beeing a sex starved teenager". I know much more older guys whom are even more nasty than any teenager i know.
So, please just get outta here, if you don't like it, but stop with this stupid "propaganda".
Goddamn...
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On October 28 2010 10:45 joonp wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2010 22:30 Loophole wrote:On October 27 2010 20:02 Shockk wrote:
Having criticized joonp earlier in this thread, I feel I have to defend him now. I still don't agree with his concept of the wallpaper not being decent fan art (which I think it is, despite the sexual undertone and only cursory connection to SC2).
But the amount of flak he's taking right now, especially on a personal level - that's unneccessary. The discussion's not even about the picture itself, but about the whole concept of fan art, and even if you don't agree with joonp's point of view, there's no need to overact like some people here do.
Calling his arguments "ridiculous" (@Unas) is just wrong, because they are well thought out after all. And suggesting a "hidden resent to sexuality" (@haflo) ... seriously, what did you smoke before posting? His arguments are rediculous. Let's examine: "you have bad taste in art, and bad taste in everything if you think that is decent fan art" There's just nothing there... "Alright, the fact that it isn't fan art is not subjective, you're right, there's no way anyone could ever consider that decent fan art." again, no substance... "And the banshee pilot is NOT sexy in the game, are you kidding me bro? Just because it's a woman it is automatically "SEXY"? If that isn't the most sexist degrading shit I ever read." I never said she was sexy because she was a woman... and even if I had, how would that be degrading? Rediculous. All of it. The woman is wearing a banshee pilot uniform. The art is based on a character from SC. This makes it fan art. There's really nothing to argue about. Joonp doesn't like the fan art. That's fine. But there's absolutely no reason to attack the artist. He's a classic troll. I probably shouldn't even acknowledge him, but I did. If you honestly can not grasp the concept of why calling any given woman sexy for the sake of her womanhood as degrading then I'm not even going to bother explaining anything to you, as you have already proven to be an idiot, as are most people ITT who will literally praise anything regardless of its integrity. (like you, if you didn't get the hint) And no, I don't have a hidden resentment towards sexuality, now THAT is truly ridiculous. I do, however, have a resentment for people who abuse and overuse sexuality and the people who endlessly respond to it like mindless apes without self control. No, she isn't hot. I'm sorry I'm not a sex starved teenager like you who finds any woman he lays his eyes on as "hot". Show nested quote +On October 27 2010 19:06 haflo wrote:
joonp you clearly have some deep hidden resent to sexuality .
i do strongly believe you should talk it up with a professional instead of spamming your shit on a very talented artist thread .
understand that what make a community great is talented people putting their time toward the subject , and enriching the word , may it be fan art, modding , maps , casting , or great forums and knowledge base (<3 TL) .
even if its not your style , which is fine , recognize the talent and time put into it appreciate it and move on . you don't have to love it , but you should respect it as a part of the community .
you love ugly aliens blowing up in space . good put that on your desktop and leave us alone.
for cheekyduck i very much hoping to see more content from you , i do love your work .
as for the commentating , as a personal taste , i would prefer seeing you trying to dual cast with a more analytic serious style commentator .
i think both you and your friend leaning to more the more fun bright light side , and i would personnally like to see balance That isn't what makes a community great. Creating mindless idiotic things does not enrich anything. That's like saying since "talented" people put a lot of time into making porn it enriches the world. Why would I appreciate it just because time was put into it? Hitler put time into murdering millions of people, should I appreciate that? He was also very talented at it. He was a talented person who put time into it, that doesn't justify it as correct. I never said I love ugly aliens blowing up in space. Where did I say that? You're clearly a moron with nothing real to say about anything I've been saying except ranting nonsensically like the idiot you are. Show nested quote +On October 27 2010 20:59 bbsss wrote:On October 27 2010 20:02 Shockk wrote:
Having criticized joonp earlier in this thread, I feel I have to defend him now. I still don't agree with his concept of the wallpaper not being decent fan art (which I think it is, despite the sexual undertone and only cursory connection to SC2).
But the amount of flak he's taking right now, especially on a personal level - that's unneccessary. The discussion's not even about the picture itself, but about the whole concept of fan art, and even if you don't agree with joonp's point of view, there's no need to overact like some people here do.
Calling his arguments "ridiculous" (@Unas) is just wrong, because they are well thought out after all. And suggesting a "hidden resent to sexuality" (@haflo) ... seriously, what did you smoke before posting? His arguments are not thought out well at all. What are you smoking? His assumption that women are only sexy because of the clothing they wear is ridiculous. I never made any assumptions about women only being sexy because of clothing, rofl your arguments are actually ridiculous, not mine. But yes, clothing CAN have an effect on the sexiness and attractiveness of a person. Do you really think that's a ridiculous concept? ROFL, jesus christ the people on this board.
Your arguments are so full of holes and completely comprised of ad hominem it's painful to read. Yes, this artist should've done fan art by copying exactly how the banshee is depicted ingame and not deviate from that (that was sarcasm by the way.) Do you know how much art over the entire history art is simply the artists' interpretations of existing ideas/stories?
Second, your outrage over the sexualization of the pilot is just too funny. Someone has some repressed sexuality issues here. I guess all artists should just make their subjects fat and unattractive. Wouldn't want to degrade them.
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joonp i hope your happy, you just made a girl cry T_T
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you should make either nova, kerrigan, or the old kerrigan, it would be really cool. just a sugestion
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On October 28 2010 11:12 Ocedic wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2010 10:45 joonp wrote:On October 27 2010 22:30 Loophole wrote:On October 27 2010 20:02 Shockk wrote:
Having criticized joonp earlier in this thread, I feel I have to defend him now. I still don't agree with his concept of the wallpaper not being decent fan art (which I think it is, despite the sexual undertone and only cursory connection to SC2).
But the amount of flak he's taking right now, especially on a personal level - that's unneccessary. The discussion's not even about the picture itself, but about the whole concept of fan art, and even if you don't agree with joonp's point of view, there's no need to overact like some people here do.
Calling his arguments "ridiculous" (@Unas) is just wrong, because they are well thought out after all. And suggesting a "hidden resent to sexuality" (@haflo) ... seriously, what did you smoke before posting? His arguments are rediculous. Let's examine: "you have bad taste in art, and bad taste in everything if you think that is decent fan art" There's just nothing there... "Alright, the fact that it isn't fan art is not subjective, you're right, there's no way anyone could ever consider that decent fan art." again, no substance... "And the banshee pilot is NOT sexy in the game, are you kidding me bro? Just because it's a woman it is automatically "SEXY"? If that isn't the most sexist degrading shit I ever read." I never said she was sexy because she was a woman... and even if I had, how would that be degrading? Rediculous. All of it. The woman is wearing a banshee pilot uniform. The art is based on a character from SC. This makes it fan art. There's really nothing to argue about. Joonp doesn't like the fan art. That's fine. But there's absolutely no reason to attack the artist. He's a classic troll. I probably shouldn't even acknowledge him, but I did. If you honestly can not grasp the concept of why calling any given woman sexy for the sake of her womanhood as degrading then I'm not even going to bother explaining anything to you, as you have already proven to be an idiot, as are most people ITT who will literally praise anything regardless of its integrity. (like you, if you didn't get the hint) And no, I don't have a hidden resentment towards sexuality, now THAT is truly ridiculous. I do, however, have a resentment for people who abuse and overuse sexuality and the people who endlessly respond to it like mindless apes without self control. On October 28 2010 09:49 tacrats wrote:
LOL? not hot? u kidding? wow.
No, she isn't hot. I'm sorry I'm not a sex starved teenager like you who finds any woman he lays his eyes on as "hot". On October 27 2010 19:06 haflo wrote:
joonp you clearly have some deep hidden resent to sexuality .
i do strongly believe you should talk it up with a professional instead of spamming your shit on a very talented artist thread .
understand that what make a community great is talented people putting their time toward the subject , and enriching the word , may it be fan art, modding , maps , casting , or great forums and knowledge base (<3 TL) .
even if its not your style , which is fine , recognize the talent and time put into it appreciate it and move on . you don't have to love it , but you should respect it as a part of the community .
you love ugly aliens blowing up in space . good put that on your desktop and leave us alone.
for cheekyduck i very much hoping to see more content from you , i do love your work .
as for the commentating , as a personal taste , i would prefer seeing you trying to dual cast with a more analytic serious style commentator .
i think both you and your friend leaning to more the more fun bright light side , and i would personnally like to see balance That isn't what makes a community great. Creating mindless idiotic things does not enrich anything. That's like saying since "talented" people put a lot of time into making porn it enriches the world. Why would I appreciate it just because time was put into it? Hitler put time into murdering millions of people, should I appreciate that? He was also very talented at it. He was a talented person who put time into it, that doesn't justify it as correct. I never said I love ugly aliens blowing up in space. Where did I say that? You're clearly a moron with nothing real to say about anything I've been saying except ranting nonsensically like the idiot you are. On October 27 2010 20:59 bbsss wrote:On October 27 2010 20:02 Shockk wrote:
Having criticized joonp earlier in this thread, I feel I have to defend him now. I still don't agree with his concept of the wallpaper not being decent fan art (which I think it is, despite the sexual undertone and only cursory connection to SC2).
But the amount of flak he's taking right now, especially on a personal level - that's unneccessary. The discussion's not even about the picture itself, but about the whole concept of fan art, and even if you don't agree with joonp's point of view, there's no need to overact like some people here do.
Calling his arguments "ridiculous" (@Unas) is just wrong, because they are well thought out after all. And suggesting a "hidden resent to sexuality" (@haflo) ... seriously, what did you smoke before posting? His arguments are not thought out well at all. What are you smoking? His assumption that women are only sexy because of the clothing they wear is ridiculous. I never made any assumptions about women only being sexy because of clothing, rofl your arguments are actually ridiculous, not mine. But yes, clothing CAN have an effect on the sexiness and attractiveness of a person. Do you really think that's a ridiculous concept? ROFL, jesus christ the people on this board. Your arguments are so full of holes and completely comprised of ad hominem it's painful to read. Yes, this artist should've done fan art by copying exactly how the banshee is depicted ingame and not deviate from that (that was sarcasm by the way.) Do you know how much art over the entire history art is simply the artists' interpretations of existing ideas/stories? Second, your outrage over the sexualization of the pilot is just too funny. Someone has some repressed sexuality issues here. I guess all artists should just make their subjects fat and unattractive. Wouldn't want to degrade them.
Yes, it's very easy to say that arguments are full of holes. No, it isn't easy to actually back up what you say.
Did I say that she should have copied a banshee exactly? Where did I say that? Care to quote it moron or are YOU the one actually pulling ad hominems out of your ass? Oh right you are. Looks like just another idiot lined up to get shot down.
Oh really? Is that what art is? Care to give me another lesson? And no, just because people can interpret things differently doesn't make their interpretations good or worthy of praise. You're a complete moron.
No, just because idiots like you jump on any bit of hentai they can doesn't mean over sexualization can never be an issue and if you point it out you have repressed issues. Pretty sure that's another ad hominem. Gee, you sure are a hypocrite for some one criticizing for ad hominems. Wowee!! Who would have thought some one would be such a moron. And no, you can be attractive and not be blatantly overtly sexual. The two aren't mutually exclusive. Your arguments are shit.
On October 28 2010 10:59 Unas wrote:
So, nothing personal, heh?
You really need to get over yourself. I mean, what are you talking about?
Just let the folk like what it wanna like.
You don't have to like it, but you friggin have to tolerate it.
So, please, if you don't have anything to say besides your antisexual flaming, just shut up. I personally don't care for this "women aren't sexsymbols herpderp" shit. If a woman wants to look sexy overall, then it is, because she want it. You can't wear hotpants and then expect that no one would look at you.
So what? Don't you look after good looking women when you walk the street? No? Maybe you're gay? (I don't have anything against that.. i just wanna figure out, what it is that makes you so aggressive about this shit.)
And no, it has nothing to do with "beeing a sex starved teenager". I know much more older guys whom are even more nasty than any teenager i know.
So, please just get outta here, if you don't like it, but stop with this stupid "propaganda".
Goddamn...
I don't have to tolerate anything. What kind of idiotic line of reasoning is that?
Yes, I know you are an ignorant moron who supports women being nothing but sex symbols and having no depth, intelligence, or personality or any real traits besides being sex symbols.
ROFL at the ignorant retards saying because I dislike blatant sex symbols I'm GAY! ROFL! Wow, you are such an ignorant fuck you aren't worth talking to. I literally can not believe what a disgusting idiot you are.
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all i want to know is why you are not banned yet?
your like using the naughty words and stuff now =(
my virgin ears, hurt T_T
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On October 28 2010 11:42 CheekyDuck wrote:
all i want to know is why you are not banned yet?
your like using the naughty words and stuff now =(
my virgin ears, hurt T_T
Why isn't some one who is ignorantly gay bashing banned yet? Or saying I have repressed sexual issues? How many people have cussed at me?
I think I deserve a plaque, and everyone mindlessly insulting me with no reasoning behind it deserves to be banned.
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you havent replyed back to any of MY posts, where i clearly explain to you with examples of whats going on.
please PM if you need to continue to express and or need clarity, just stop doing this to my thread.
its mindlessly insulting if you must understand, please take the time to read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies
thats why they are saying your arguments are wrong, because your logic is wrong.
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On October 28 2010 11:59 CheekyDuck wrote:you havent replyed back to any of MY posts, where i clearly explain to you with examples of whats going on. please PM if you need to continue to express and or need clarity, just stop doing this to my thread. its mindlessly insulting if you must understand, please take the time to read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallaciesthats why they are saying your arguments are wrong, because your logic is wrong.
My logic isn't wrong. Posting a list of fallacies does not make any of them apply to me except for maybe a few ad hominems in response to personal attacks on me.
User was banned for this post.
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Please stop responding CheekyDuck, you will never have 100% of the people on the internet agree with you, and it just wastes your time responding to the vocal minority.
Great job on the banshee BTW, and good luck in the future!
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[QUOTE]On October 28 2010 09:49 tacrats wrote:
[QUOTE]On October 27 2010 15:46 joonp wrote:
[QUOTE]On October 27 2010 08:44 Loophole wrote:
[QUOTE]On October 27 2010 06:53 Teivospylol wrote:
Jpoon or w/e has a point on the whole "relatedness to SC". While everything else he said was stupid you should take his criticism on that point better in order to make your work significant. Honestly its probably worth more to you than all these other people going "omG its aMaZiNg"
Obviously the picture is supposed to be focusing on the pilot, so I doubt you want the banshee to actually be more apparent (although imo it should be), but I would definately not be able to make the connection between "banshee pilot" and this picture unless someone actually pointed it out. Like the hair, the suit colour, and the generic background doesn't really scream anything "banshee". You could have added something like dominion decals to her suit and it would be clearer (also it would take the plainness out of the suit imo), thats just one example I quickly came up with.
Personally I think it would be pretty awesome if the background was like CHAR and BC's are exploding above.. but then you got this banshee pilot all like "w/e idc". Call it "ghost-riding" with clear emphasis on the pun. Thats prolly not in your artistic vision though
tlDR The picture in itself is pretty good, but like jpoon I wouldn't exactly call it starcraft
[/QUOTE]
And the banshee pilot is NOT sexy in the game, are you kidding me bro? Just because it's a woman it is automatically "SEXY"? If that isn't the most sexist degrading shit I ever read. Her suit is a bit bulky, and her helmet isn't a brimming arousing accessory. Saying she is sexy is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. In that video you posted she even has a tube coming out of her throat. I don't know who finds that sexy.[/QUOTE]
LOL? not hot? u kidding? wow.
[/QUOTE]
wow some people will argue and whine about anything. How is a banshee pilot with her banshee helmet not related to SC2?
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EPT
