On May 25 2012 08:05 DomiNater wrote: So would InControl have accepted an invite base just on his contributions to the community and because he is a "Personality"?
Talk about Double-Standards. I don't agree with the LastShadow invite either, but I also don't agree with the BS qualifications he spewed out to be considered for an invite.
By his definition, he wouldn't be upset if Husky got invited instead of LastShadow.
that's not what he said and what he meant, what performance did you see that make LS deserve that invite ?
I'm not sure I'm following you here, LS's performance was the last thing he mentioned which automatically brings more attention to the first 2 criteria he layed out (In his mind) which were being an community contributor or a "Personality".
Geoff said something along the lines of:
"LastShadow had started to make help videos on youtube for the community and that was a good start, but not enough to be considered for an invite. He's not a community contributor and he's not a personality and he (LS) is leagues below the other invites."
He isn't saying that lastshadow shouldnt accept the invite. What he is saying is that redbull shouldnt invite such an unqualified player for such a huge event. From a players perspective it would be stupid for lastshadow not to accept.
I think he argues about how Incontrol would be totally okey with, lets say, TotalBiscuit getting invite for PLAYING tournament because he did "a lot" for community. At least I got that impression from what Incontrol said, I am maybe terribly wrong.
you are terribly wrong.
What I am saying is it would be LESS bad fi the invite was qualifed as someone that would bring more eyes and has done things like compete in events, win some stuff or been around the community.
inviting a former cheater who has 0 accomlishments inside 2 years and doesn't actually participate in the community/events outside of making youtube videos IS a wasted invite.
Saying "incontrol would be a bad invite" doesn't make my point any less correct. I agree, I'd be an out of place invite as well. Less so than LS but still, not what I think they should be doing.
i think 95% of people agree with you, geoff. it's just that vocal minority again.
don't see any good reason for LS being invited to a 16 player tournament.
I am not big fan of LS, more like the opposite. But I can see a reason for similar player to be invited. They actually presented what Day[9] said on Lo3 kind of incorrectly. He said that he wanted one "interesting" player, meaning a player that is a gamble, risk. But I think one such player in 16 is ok and can be a nice solution to non-existent qualifiers, which means that no new surprising players can be seen and only old-guard is present. The only thing necessary is to make sure he will not get decimated by the other players. We will see.
Ostojiy already kinda fills the role of "interesting" player, he does have some kind of results to show, whereas Last Shadow has nothing. And there are a lot of other "interesting" players that would at least be somewhat justified like Yata, Scarlett, State, Hawk, Snute, Fraer, Slivko, Bly, Tefel, Welmu, TheMista ... and a lot more up and coming players. There is just not a single reason to invite Last Shadow to this tournament other than him being Day9's butt buddy.
You can't just list off a bunch of names with half of them being players who have even less name recognition (Fraer? Tefel? Welmu? TheMista?) and then mention "a lot more up and coming players" (like who?) and then totally disregard LastShadow. Placing highly at MLG, even if it was a few years ago, is a lot more than a lot of players can say, plus he has very interesting play and a strong TvX lategame.
wait wait, just because you are misinformed about the players he named doesn't mean they aren't more deserving then LastShadow. Tefel not only qualified for MLG Spring Arena 2, but he won games there. Fraer has won multiple Zotac cups and such in EU. He was actually top 5 ELO like two weeks ago. Welmu has been around for awhile. Dude just got 2nd at the Copenhagen games and represented Finland at WCG.
all these guys at least have results. LastShadow, his last games entered into his TLPD were MLG Anaheim 2011, where he lost in the open bracket. And the biggest reason LastShadow has name recognition isn't even for his play. Its for all the drama that went down at the GOM house.
On May 25 2012 08:05 DomiNater wrote: So would InControl have accepted an invite base just on his contributions to the community and because he is a "Personality"?
Talk about Double-Standards. I don't agree with the LastShadow invite either, but I also don't agree with the BS qualifications he spewed out to be considered for an invite.
By his definition, he wouldn't be upset if Husky got invited instead of LastShadow.
that's not what he said and what he meant, what performance did you see that make LS deserve that invite ?
I'm not sure I'm following you here, LS's performance was the last thing he mentioned which automatically brings more attention to the first 2 criteria he layed out (In his mind) which were being an community contributor or a "Personality".
Geoff said something along the lines of:
"LastShadow had started to make help videos on youtube for the community and that was a good start, but not enough to be considered for an invite. He's not a community contributor and he's not a personality and he (LS) is leagues below the other invites."
He isn't saying that lastshadow shouldnt accept the invite. What he is saying is that redbull shouldnt invite such an unqualified player for such a huge event. From a players perspective it would be stupid for lastshadow not to accept.
I think he argues about how Incontrol would be totally okey with, lets say, TotalBiscuit getting invite for PLAYING tournament because he did "a lot" for community. At least I got that impression from what Incontrol said, I am maybe terribly wrong.
you are terribly wrong.
What I am saying is it would be LESS bad fi the invite was qualifed as someone that would bring more eyes and has done things like compete in events, win some stuff or been around the community.
inviting a former cheater who has 0 accomlishments inside 2 years and doesn't actually participate in the community/events outside of making youtube videos IS a wasted invite.
Saying "incontrol would be a bad invite" doesn't make my point any less correct. I agree, I'd be an out of place invite as well. Less so than LS but still, not what I think they should be doing.
i think 95% of people agree with you, geoff. it's just that vocal minority again.
don't see any good reason for LS being invited to a 16 player tournament.
I am not big fan of LS, more like the opposite. But I can see a reason for similar player to be invited. They actually presented what Day[9] said on Lo3 kind of incorrectly. He said that he wanted one "interesting" player, meaning a player that is a gamble, risk. But I think one such player in 16 is ok and can be a nice solution to non-existent qualifiers, which means that no new surprising players can be seen and only old-guard is present. The only thing necessary is to make sure he will not get decimated by the other players. We will see.
Ostojiy already kinda fills the role of "interesting" player, he does have some kind of results to show, whereas Last Shadow has nothing. And there are a lot of other "interesting" players that would at least be somewhat justified like Yata, Scarlett, State, Hawk, Snute, Fraer, Slivko, Bly, Tefel, Welmu, TheMista ... and a lot more up and coming players. There is just not a single reason to invite Last Shadow to this tournament other than him being Day9's butt buddy.
There are several other players, many named above, that deserve invites above Last Shadow. Lesser known players who have had good results at events (such as Bly, Tefel from this weekend, even Scarlett at IPL4) who deserve to be invited over Last Shadow. Not only that, but LS has been in the news more times for bad behavior and drama than anything Starcraft related. Not a good pick.
On May 25 2012 08:05 DomiNater wrote: So would InControl have accepted an invite base just on his contributions to the community and because he is a "Personality"?
Talk about Double-Standards. I don't agree with the LastShadow invite either, but I also don't agree with the BS qualifications he spewed out to be considered for an invite.
By his definition, he wouldn't be upset if Husky got invited instead of LastShadow.
that's not what he said and what he meant, what performance did you see that make LS deserve that invite ?
I'm not sure I'm following you here, LS's performance was the last thing he mentioned which automatically brings more attention to the first 2 criteria he layed out (In his mind) which were being an community contributor or a "Personality".
Geoff said something along the lines of:
"LastShadow had started to make help videos on youtube for the community and that was a good start, but not enough to be considered for an invite. He's not a community contributor and he's not a personality and he (LS) is leagues below the other invites."
He isn't saying that lastshadow shouldnt accept the invite. What he is saying is that redbull shouldnt invite such an unqualified player for such a huge event. From a players perspective it would be stupid for lastshadow not to accept.
Ya Incontrols argument was pretty much that LS doesn't have any of those factors. There are so many more accomplished players, LS doesn't do much for the community nor is he a big personality. Incontrol isn't saying that if you contribute to the community you should be invited to play in tournaments, he is saying that LS is lacking in all of those areas so there isn't any reason whatsoever that he should have been considered.
peoples are bias surprise surprise.so what?day9 is not an exception.everyone wants to reach their personal/friends goals more.i don't see the problem here.
that's not what he said and what he meant, what performance did you see that make LS deserve that invite ?
I'm not sure I'm following you here, LS's performance was the last thing he mentioned which automatically brings more attention to the first 2 criteria he layed out (In his mind) which were being an community contributor or a "Personality".
Geoff said something along the lines of:
"LastShadow had started to make help videos on youtube for the community and that was a good start, but not enough to be considered for an invite. He's not a community contributor and he's not a personality and he (LS) is leagues below the other invites."
He isn't saying that lastshadow shouldnt accept the invite. What he is saying is that redbull shouldnt invite such an unqualified player for such a huge event. From a players perspective it would be stupid for lastshadow not to accept.
I think he argues about how Incontrol would be totally okey with, lets say, TotalBiscuit getting invite for PLAYING tournament because he did "a lot" for community. At least I got that impression from what Incontrol said, I am maybe terribly wrong.
you are terribly wrong.
What I am saying is it would be LESS bad fi the invite was qualifed as someone that would bring more eyes and has done things like compete in events, win some stuff or been around the community.
inviting a former cheater who has 0 accomlishments inside 2 years and doesn't actually participate in the community/events outside of making youtube videos IS a wasted invite.
Saying "incontrol would be a bad invite" doesn't make my point any less correct. I agree, I'd be an out of place invite as well. Less so than LS but still, not what I think they should be doing.
i think 95% of people agree with you, geoff. it's just that vocal minority again.
don't see any good reason for LS being invited to a 16 player tournament.
I am not big fan of LS, more like the opposite. But I can see a reason for similar player to be invited. They actually presented what Day[9] said on Lo3 kind of incorrectly. He said that he wanted one "interesting" player, meaning a player that is a gamble, risk. But I think one such player in 16 is ok and can be a nice solution to non-existent qualifiers, which means that no new surprising players can be seen and only old-guard is present. The only thing necessary is to make sure he will not get decimated by the other players. We will see.
Ostojiy already kinda fills the role of "interesting" player, he does have some kind of results to show, whereas Last Shadow has nothing. And there are a lot of other "interesting" players that would at least be somewhat justified like Yata, Scarlett, State, Hawk, Snute, Fraer, Slivko, Bly, Tefel, Welmu, TheMista ... and a lot more up and coming players. There is just not a single reason to invite Last Shadow to this tournament other than him being Day9's butt buddy.
You can't just list off a bunch of names with half of them being players who have even less name recognition (Fraer? Tefel? Welmu? TheMista?) and then mention "a lot more up and coming players" (like who?) and then totally disregard LastShadow. Placing highly at MLG, even if it was a few years ago, is a lot more than a lot of players can say, plus he has very interesting play and a strong TvX lategame.
wait wait, just because you are misinformed about the players he named doesn't mean they aren't more deserving then LastShadow. Tefel not only qualified for MLG Spring Arena 2, but he won games there. Fraer has won multiple Zotac cups and such in EU. He was actually top 5 ELO like two weeks ago. Welmu has been around for awhile. Dude just got 2nd at the Copenhagen games and represented Finland at WCG.
all these guys at least have results. LastShadow, his last games entered into his TLPD were MLG Anaheim 2011, where he lost in the open bracket. And the biggest reason LastShadow has name recognition isn't even for his play. Its for all the drama that went down at the GOM house.
You're jumping a bit far with your conclusions. Just because I say that players have less name recognition, doesn't mean I don't know about them. My point is that if you asked the general community who you have heard of, I would bet money similar proportions of them would answer no to many of the players listed as well as LastShadow.
Edit: Also, I initially found out about LastShadow through his vlog series, and I'm sure a decent amount of other people did as well, so you can't really say that his name recognition is or isn't through his play.
I'm not sure I'm following you here, LS's performance was the last thing he mentioned which automatically brings more attention to the first 2 criteria he layed out (In his mind) which were being an community contributor or a "Personality".
Geoff said something along the lines of:
"LastShadow had started to make help videos on youtube for the community and that was a good start, but not enough to be considered for an invite. He's not a community contributor and he's not a personality and he (LS) is leagues below the other invites."
He isn't saying that lastshadow shouldnt accept the invite. What he is saying is that redbull shouldnt invite such an unqualified player for such a huge event. From a players perspective it would be stupid for lastshadow not to accept.
I think he argues about how Incontrol would be totally okey with, lets say, TotalBiscuit getting invite for PLAYING tournament because he did "a lot" for community. At least I got that impression from what Incontrol said, I am maybe terribly wrong.
you are terribly wrong.
What I am saying is it would be LESS bad fi the invite was qualifed as someone that would bring more eyes and has done things like compete in events, win some stuff or been around the community.
inviting a former cheater who has 0 accomlishments inside 2 years and doesn't actually participate in the community/events outside of making youtube videos IS a wasted invite.
Saying "incontrol would be a bad invite" doesn't make my point any less correct. I agree, I'd be an out of place invite as well. Less so than LS but still, not what I think they should be doing.
i think 95% of people agree with you, geoff. it's just that vocal minority again.
don't see any good reason for LS being invited to a 16 player tournament.
I am not big fan of LS, more like the opposite. But I can see a reason for similar player to be invited. They actually presented what Day[9] said on Lo3 kind of incorrectly. He said that he wanted one "interesting" player, meaning a player that is a gamble, risk. But I think one such player in 16 is ok and can be a nice solution to non-existent qualifiers, which means that no new surprising players can be seen and only old-guard is present. The only thing necessary is to make sure he will not get decimated by the other players. We will see.
Ostojiy already kinda fills the role of "interesting" player, he does have some kind of results to show, whereas Last Shadow has nothing. And there are a lot of other "interesting" players that would at least be somewhat justified like Yata, Scarlett, State, Hawk, Snute, Fraer, Slivko, Bly, Tefel, Welmu, TheMista ... and a lot more up and coming players. There is just not a single reason to invite Last Shadow to this tournament other than him being Day9's butt buddy.
You can't just list off a bunch of names with half of them being players who have even less name recognition (Fraer? Tefel? Welmu? TheMista?) and then mention "a lot more up and coming players" (like who?) and then totally disregard LastShadow. Placing highly at MLG, even if it was a few years ago, is a lot more than a lot of players can say, plus he has very interesting play and a strong TvX lategame.
wait wait, just because you are misinformed about the players he named doesn't mean they aren't more deserving then LastShadow. Tefel not only qualified for MLG Spring Arena 2, but he won games there. Fraer has won multiple Zotac cups and such in EU. He was actually top 5 ELO like two weeks ago. Welmu has been around for awhile. Dude just got 2nd at the Copenhagen games and represented Finland at WCG.
all these guys at least have results. LastShadow, his last games entered into his TLPD were MLG Anaheim 2011, where he lost in the open bracket. And the biggest reason LastShadow has name recognition isn't even for his play. Its for all the drama that went down at the GOM house.
You're jumping a bit far with your conclusions. Just because I say that players have less name recognition, doesn't mean I don't know about them. My point is that if you asked the general community who you have heard of, I would bet money similar proportions of them would answer no to many of the players listed as well as LastShadow.
i would disagree. and if they do, its not because of his play.
Good show Enjoyed it a lot. The americans on the show really didn't like when Darkforce/Socke joked about the "american quota" that will take last place in each grp and that american players are cheesy though :p. Became pretty awkward at those moments because of that.
On May 25 2012 10:20 Valikyr wrote: Good show Enjoyed it a lot. The americans on the show really didn't like when Darkforce/Socke joked about the "american quota" that will take last place in each grp and that american players are cheesy though :p. Became pretty awkward at those moments because of that.
i think it was more about the word quota because they did not understand it.
On May 25 2012 10:20 Valikyr wrote: Good show Enjoyed it a lot. The americans on the show really didn't like when Darkforce/Socke joked about the "american quota" that will take last place in each grp and that american players are cheesy though :p. Became pretty awkward at those moments because of that.
No,it became awkward because the german players were referring to affirmative action but using different words for it. They were Saying a german word and nobody but them got the joke lol .
I'm not sure I'm following you here, LS's performance was the last thing he mentioned which automatically brings more attention to the first 2 criteria he layed out (In his mind) which were being an community contributor or a "Personality".
Geoff said something along the lines of:
"LastShadow had started to make help videos on youtube for the community and that was a good start, but not enough to be considered for an invite. He's not a community contributor and he's not a personality and he (LS) is leagues below the other invites."
He isn't saying that lastshadow shouldnt accept the invite. What he is saying is that redbull shouldnt invite such an unqualified player for such a huge event. From a players perspective it would be stupid for lastshadow not to accept.
I think he argues about how Incontrol would be totally okey with, lets say, TotalBiscuit getting invite for PLAYING tournament because he did "a lot" for community. At least I got that impression from what Incontrol said, I am maybe terribly wrong.
you are terribly wrong.
What I am saying is it would be LESS bad fi the invite was qualifed as someone that would bring more eyes and has done things like compete in events, win some stuff or been around the community.
inviting a former cheater who has 0 accomlishments inside 2 years and doesn't actually participate in the community/events outside of making youtube videos IS a wasted invite.
Saying "incontrol would be a bad invite" doesn't make my point any less correct. I agree, I'd be an out of place invite as well. Less so than LS but still, not what I think they should be doing.
i think 95% of people agree with you, geoff. it's just that vocal minority again.
don't see any good reason for LS being invited to a 16 player tournament.
I am not big fan of LS, more like the opposite. But I can see a reason for similar player to be invited. They actually presented what Day[9] said on Lo3 kind of incorrectly. He said that he wanted one "interesting" player, meaning a player that is a gamble, risk. But I think one such player in 16 is ok and can be a nice solution to non-existent qualifiers, which means that no new surprising players can be seen and only old-guard is present. The only thing necessary is to make sure he will not get decimated by the other players. We will see.
Ostojiy already kinda fills the role of "interesting" player, he does have some kind of results to show, whereas Last Shadow has nothing. And there are a lot of other "interesting" players that would at least be somewhat justified like Yata, Scarlett, State, Hawk, Snute, Fraer, Slivko, Bly, Tefel, Welmu, TheMista ... and a lot more up and coming players. There is just not a single reason to invite Last Shadow to this tournament other than him being Day9's butt buddy.
You can't just list off a bunch of names with half of them being players who have even less name recognition (Fraer? Tefel? Welmu? TheMista?) and then mention "a lot more up and coming players" (like who?) and then totally disregard LastShadow. Placing highly at MLG, even if it was a few years ago, is a lot more than a lot of players can say, plus he has very interesting play and a strong TvX lategame.
wait wait, just because you are misinformed about the players he named doesn't mean they aren't more deserving then LastShadow. Tefel not only qualified for MLG Spring Arena 2, but he won games there. Fraer has won multiple Zotac cups and such in EU. He was actually top 5 ELO like two weeks ago. Welmu has been around for awhile. Dude just got 2nd at the Copenhagen games and represented Finland at WCG.
all these guys at least have results. LastShadow, his last games entered into his TLPD were MLG Anaheim 2011, where he lost in the open bracket. And the biggest reason LastShadow has name recognition isn't even for his play. Its for all the drama that went down at the GOM house.
You're jumping a bit far with your conclusions. Just because I say that players have less name recognition, doesn't mean I don't know about them. My point is that if you asked the general community who you have heard of, I would bet money similar proportions of them would answer no to many of the players listed as well as LastShadow.
Edit: Also, I initially found out about LastShadow through his vlog series, and I'm sure a decent amount of other people did as well, so you can't really say that his name recognition is or isn't through his play.
The elephant in the room with name recognition and LastShadow is that a significant chunk (dwindling, but significant) of the community only has name recognition of LastShadow because of his BW days, and I think he's going to have to do something amazing to escape that. To date, he hasn't managed it as near as I can tell, though I haven't kept that good track of him lately.
I'm not sure I'm following you here, LS's performance was the last thing he mentioned which automatically brings more attention to the first 2 criteria he layed out (In his mind) which were being an community contributor or a "Personality".
Geoff said something along the lines of:
"LastShadow had started to make help videos on youtube for the community and that was a good start, but not enough to be considered for an invite. He's not a community contributor and he's not a personality and he (LS) is leagues below the other invites."
He isn't saying that lastshadow shouldnt accept the invite. What he is saying is that redbull shouldnt invite such an unqualified player for such a huge event. From a players perspective it would be stupid for lastshadow not to accept.
I think he argues about how Incontrol would be totally okey with, lets say, TotalBiscuit getting invite for PLAYING tournament because he did "a lot" for community. At least I got that impression from what Incontrol said, I am maybe terribly wrong.
you are terribly wrong.
What I am saying is it would be LESS bad fi the invite was qualifed as someone that would bring more eyes and has done things like compete in events, win some stuff or been around the community.
inviting a former cheater who has 0 accomlishments inside 2 years and doesn't actually participate in the community/events outside of making youtube videos IS a wasted invite.
Saying "incontrol would be a bad invite" doesn't make my point any less correct. I agree, I'd be an out of place invite as well. Less so than LS but still, not what I think they should be doing.
i think 95% of people agree with you, geoff. it's just that vocal minority again.
don't see any good reason for LS being invited to a 16 player tournament.
I am not big fan of LS, more like the opposite. But I can see a reason for similar player to be invited. They actually presented what Day[9] said on Lo3 kind of incorrectly. He said that he wanted one "interesting" player, meaning a player that is a gamble, risk. But I think one such player in 16 is ok and can be a nice solution to non-existent qualifiers, which means that no new surprising players can be seen and only old-guard is present. The only thing necessary is to make sure he will not get decimated by the other players. We will see.
Ostojiy already kinda fills the role of "interesting" player, he does have some kind of results to show, whereas Last Shadow has nothing. And there are a lot of other "interesting" players that would at least be somewhat justified like Yata, Scarlett, State, Hawk, Snute, Fraer, Slivko, Bly, Tefel, Welmu, TheMista ... and a lot more up and coming players. There is just not a single reason to invite Last Shadow to this tournament other than him being Day9's butt buddy.
You can't just list off a bunch of names with half of them being players who have even less name recognition (Fraer? Tefel? Welmu? TheMista?) and then mention "a lot more up and coming players" (like who?) and then totally disregard LastShadow. Placing highly at MLG, even if it was a few years ago, is a lot more than a lot of players can say, plus he has very interesting play and a strong TvX lategame.
wait wait, just because you are misinformed about the players he named doesn't mean they aren't more deserving then LastShadow. Tefel not only qualified for MLG Spring Arena 2, but he won games there. Fraer has won multiple Zotac cups and such in EU. He was actually top 5 ELO like two weeks ago. Welmu has been around for awhile. Dude just got 2nd at the Copenhagen games and represented Finland at WCG.
all these guys at least have results. LastShadow, his last games entered into his TLPD were MLG Anaheim 2011, where he lost in the open bracket. And the biggest reason LastShadow has name recognition isn't even for his play. Its for all the drama that went down at the GOM house.
You're jumping a bit far with your conclusions. Just because I say that players have less name recognition, doesn't mean I don't know about them. My point is that if you asked the general community who you have heard of, I would bet money similar proportions of them would answer no to many of the players listed as well as LastShadow.
Edit: Also, I initially found out about LastShadow through his vlog series, and I'm sure a decent amount of other people did as well, so you can't really say that his name recognition is or isn't through his play.
I would assume most people on TL heard about LastShadow threw his past dramas more than his vlog which, I for one, forgot even existed until you mentioned it.
i know of lastshadow but i dont really know anything about him. for whatever reason (i dont know anything about any drama, dont care) nothing hes done has permeated into the 'mainstream' of sc2. which basically means he hasnt been on sotg or any djwheat show and he hasnt done anything suprising upsetting anyone at an event.
EPT
Enjoyed it a lot. The americans on the show really didn't like when Darkforce/Socke joked about the "american quota" that will take last place in each grp and that american players are cheesy though :p. Became pretty awkward at those moments because of that. 
