On June 03 2011 03:11 Brad wrote: I can't believe Destiny being so anal in defending this. Why can't you just stop using it? I love watching your stream, but this is getting ridiculous. You're not a sellout if you stop using the word n*****. I can't understand how this is even a debate.
I want to know why you even started saying it in the first place, that's probably the root of the problem. How does using the word n***** even become a word in someones everyday vocabulary? Maybe it's just how someones environment has grown them as a person, but i can't believe that someone is actually defending themselves using that word. To me, someone who has been taught up to be socially sensitive (I don't even type the word n*****) i just facepalm at this whole debate.
I guess i just don't see it how some people do. Meh.
the argument that you should just give up because its easier is wrong on so many levels that its not even worth articulating the 100s of reasons why
Brad was not saying you should just give up, he is saying using the word nigger is a dumb habbit to get into in the first place. It is never ok to use in polite conversation and never will be because it carries too much baggage. I totally agree with him that there are much better ways to express yourself that will help you out later in life.
and yet the only other group (rap music / rnb / whatever) that uses the word nigga continues to go from strength to strength
Maybe that is a saying in england but I have no idea what that means. why is using nigger a strength in rap music? If you use nigger in your song it gets bleeped out on the radio and usually doesnt get played. Therefore less people hear it and it is less mainstream.
it didnt say its a strength, i said rap music continues to become more popular.
I would argue that as rap has become more popular there has been a huge push against the artists to clean up their lyrics and to set better examples for the young kids idolizing them. Of course there are the few that try to be controversial and get famous for it but the trend is to swear and use nigger less if you are aiming to be part of the mainstream popular music. What I am getting at is that of course it is fine for Destiny to do and say whatever he wants on his own stream and he is popular because he does. However as a community we will be better off phasing the more controversial terms out of our vocabulary. The gaming community already has a bad social stigma that is slowly fading, but our use of crude and vulgar language is something that people against gaming always bring up. If we can eliminate this “point against us” then we can be one step closer to making esports socially acceptable as a main stream product.
man I used to like reading this thread... can you all at least say "n-word" instead ?
destiny (like alot of second rate rappers/comedians) uses those controversial words for shock value, they appeal to the lowest common denominator audience (the jerry springer crowd)
I just wish he played a different game and did not advertise his stream on this site since he feels no obligation to represent the community (his quote from SOTG)
maybe a better way to say it is that people shouldn't use words that they don't really understand
-edit- for the poster below who thinks I meant that anyone who uses shock words is second rate, let me clarify the statement, many second rate comedians/rappers use shocking words because they are not creative enough to entertain without those words.. people like George Carlin and Jerry Seinfeld are very creative and not second rate and would be just as successful with or without those words.
On June 03 2011 04:14 Rocor wrote: man I used to like reading this thread... can you all at least say "n-word" instead ?
destiny (like alot of second rate rappers/comedians) uses those controversial words for shock value, they appeal to the lowest common denominator audience (the jerry springer crowd)
I just wish he played a different game and did not advertise his stream on this site since he feels no obligation to represent the community (his quote from SOTG)
maybe a better way to say it is that people shouldn't use words that they don't really understand
It's easy to judge somoeone and lump then in with others you've judged... harder to actually listen to what they say and take the time to figure out who they are.
On June 02 2011 19:02 aquanda wrote: if anyone seriously believes fuck is on the same offensive level as nigger you're an idiot.
as an internet neck beard virgin i find the idea of anyone having sex just as offensive as black skin, as i dont have either.
hurr
more seriously though, calling people an idiot for disagreeing with your baseless opinion is kinda ironic
On June 02 2011 16:25 Doodsmack wrote: Funny how many people on the Destiny side of teh debate like to pretend that nigga (said when addressing friends) and nigger are the same thing.
thats destinys whole point though? wording is all about context and situation. it should be ok for destiny to say what he wants on his stream, within that context and setting its ok.
Yah, because calling someone nigger really just means that you are simply telling someone that they have black skin. Thank you for calling yourself an idiot by replying to my statement.
But you are the same person that trolled my earlier post though, so I'll just keep my statement at that, because it's obvious you are just here for your own personal amusement and nothing more.
if you are arguing that nigger isnt just about the skin colour then its not a racial slur and should be considered equal to the word fuck.
and i didnt troll your earlier post. the only thing your comment added was basically "LOL Y U ALL MAD" while being the only one foaming at the mouth in the whole thread.
You're not that quick, are you? The word "nigger" is obviously used to denote a black person in a derogatory fashion; if it is used about something which is not a black person, but used in a derogatory fashion, it still denotes that being black is something of less value than otherwise by implication.
If you honestly believe this, and other people in this thread do, I believe that every single one of you should be temp-banned for your next post if it doesn't include an explanation of how black people so freely use this word in rap music without disparaging their entire race every time the word is used.
Please, do explain.
Are you serious?
The word was derogatory slang used by white people to denigrate black people who were often their slaves. It has its roots firmly in slavery and oppression; and in the oppression of black people by white people, especially in America. The word has now been 'reclaimed' as such by the black community (or at least parts of it) to refer to each other, in a non-derogatory way, in the same way 'queer' was reclaimed by the gay community.
For white people to use it carries all of its awful implications from the past, those are inescapable. For black people to use it with each, it represents a liberation (of sorts) in that a negative, offensive term has been reclaimed and successfully made part of their vocabulary.
You can't ignore the history of the word when trying to understand its usage.
THIS.
Steve Bonnell, can you please explain why you need to use the word nigger, or feel like it's so critical to expressing your "true" self?
When a white person calls another person a nigger, he thinks he's being a badass. It's the equivalent of say 'bro' or 'dude'.
When a black person says 'nigger', it means the same thing, to a certain extent. But it's much more loaded. I assume it originated as an informal way of reminding the person about their 'blackness', their history, their identity, and how they're perceived by non-Black society.
Every time a white person calls another white person a nigger, I can't help but think of them as fools, or poseurs, or someone so ignorant of racial identity and culture that they think they can turn their 'race' off and on like a switch.
On June 03 2011 04:14 Rocor wrote: man I used to like reading this thread... can you all at least say "n-word" instead ?
destiny (like alot of second rate rappers/comedians) uses those controversial words for shock value, they appeal to the lowest common denominator audience (the jerry springer crowd)
I just wish he played a different game and did not advertise his stream on this site since he feels no obligation to represent the community (his quote from SOTG)
maybe a better way to say it is that people shouldn't use words that they don't really understand
So every person has to operate out of the goodness of their heart to be listed in the streams, and can't operate out of self interest. People use words because they incite emotions, and feelings, good or bad, and if shit appeals to the lowest common denominator(your quote from this post) isn't that a good thing. Last time i checked those "second rate rappers/comedians" are making a living and profit off of it. Last time I checked, Jerry Springer is mainstream, not my cup of tea, but its offensive as fuck and brings in millions of viewers more than the TSL.
oh yeah, shock value, it's totally fine, its like saying George Carlin is a second rate comedian because he had shocking topics and language. He did, and he made a good living off of it.
And your saying that people like Destiny, George Carlin, and rappers don't understand the significance of these words and concepts. Of course they do, that's why they fucking use them, cause they help get the point across. And it doesn't always have to be out of artistic or political reasons, as It could just be a part of their speech and has no malicious or evil intent.
You saying something like that demeans the people who use these words as idiots and racists, when that is clearly not the case.
For white people to use it carries all of its awful implications from the past, those are inescapable. For black people to use it with each, it represents a liberation (of sorts) in that a negative, offensive term has been reclaimed and successfully made part of their vocabulary.
You can't ignore the history of the word when trying to understand its usage.
that's some pretty obvious racism right there - i can say something but you can't?
all these arguments do is just perpetuate the "black people are different from white people" theory - where, actually, the only difference is skin color
and why are we not arguing about the words "whitey" or "cracker" at all? again, blatant racism
people need to just talk how they talk, be how they wanna be - if you don't like it, don't watch it....but, and this is a big but....BUT if you represent a large group, as a caster/commentator/promoter/speaker/etc, you need to realize that everything you say is essentially the group saying the same thing. If you speak for yourself, speak for yourself...if you speak for a group, speak as if you WERE that group
On June 02 2011 19:02 aquanda wrote: if anyone seriously believes fuck is on the same offensive level as nigger you're an idiot.
as an internet neck beard virgin i find the idea of anyone having sex just as offensive as black skin, as i dont have either.
hurr
more seriously though, calling people an idiot for disagreeing with your baseless opinion is kinda ironic
On June 02 2011 16:25 Doodsmack wrote: Funny how many people on the Destiny side of teh debate like to pretend that nigga (said when addressing friends) and nigger are the same thing.
thats destinys whole point though? wording is all about context and situation. it should be ok for destiny to say what he wants on his stream, within that context and setting its ok.
Yah, because calling someone nigger really just means that you are simply telling someone that they have black skin. Thank you for calling yourself an idiot by replying to my statement.
But you are the same person that trolled my earlier post though, so I'll just keep my statement at that, because it's obvious you are just here for your own personal amusement and nothing more.
if you are arguing that nigger isnt just about the skin colour then its not a racial slur and should be considered equal to the word fuck.
and i didnt troll your earlier post. the only thing your comment added was basically "LOL Y U ALL MAD" while being the only one foaming at the mouth in the whole thread.
You're not that quick, are you? The word "nigger" is obviously used to denote a black person in a derogatory fashion; if it is used about something which is not a black person, but used in a derogatory fashion, it still denotes that being black is something of less value than otherwise by implication.
If you honestly believe this, and other people in this thread do, I believe that every single one of you should be temp-banned for your next post if it doesn't include an explanation of how black people so freely use this word in rap music without disparaging their entire race every time the word is used.
Please, do explain.
That is a good point. *Some* African Americans use the word casually. Not all of them do though. I sat in on a meeting of the African American Society at my college, and they were very split on whether Blacks can use that word. Half the room thought NO ONE should use it. Half thought that only blacks could use it as a way of "reclaiming the word for African Americans, taking away the power from the members of the dominant white society that use it."
This second opinion is an example of treating races differently, because there shouldn't be a word that blacks can use, but whites cannot. That's why I think that everyone should stop saying it -- including rappers and Destiny. Destiny brings up a good point. We should be just as upset with rappers and other African Americans that use the word.
The only thing is, those rappers that use the word are not in our SC2 community. I don't really care about their "rap" communities because I am not a part of it. You are a part of my community, so I would prefer you stop using the word that makes us look bad. Obviously it is up to you, but it's just a word to you. To others it is something that casts us in a very negative light. Is it worth it? I, personally, would really appreciate you not using it.
On June 03 2011 03:11 Brad wrote: I can't believe Destiny being so anal in defending this. Why can't you just stop using it? I love watching your stream, but this is getting ridiculous. You're not a sellout if you stop using the word n*****. I can't understand how this is even a debate.
I want to know why you even started saying it in the first place, that's probably the root of the problem. How does using the word n***** even become a word in someones everyday vocabulary? Maybe it's just how someones environment has grown them as a person, but i can't believe that someone is actually defending themselves using that word. To me, someone who has been taught up to be socially sensitive (I don't even type the word n*****) i just facepalm at this whole debate.
I guess i just don't see it how some people do. Meh.
the argument that you should just give up because its easier is wrong on so many levels that its not even worth articulating the 100s of reasons why
Brad was not saying you should just give up, he is saying using the word nigger is a dumb habbit to get into in the first place. It is never ok to use in polite conversation and never will be because it carries too much baggage. I totally agree with him that there are much better ways to express yourself that will help you out later in life.
and yet the only other group (rap music / rnb / whatever) that uses the word nigga continues to go from strength to strength
Maybe that is a saying in england but I have no idea what that means. why is using nigger a strength in rap music? If you use nigger in your song it gets bleeped out on the radio and usually doesnt get played. Therefore less people hear it and it is less mainstream.
it didnt say its a strength, i said rap music continues to become more popular.
I would argue that as rap has become more popular there has been a huge push against the artists to clean up their lyrics and to set better examples for the young kids idolizing them. Of course there are the few that try to be controversial and get famous for it but the trend is to swear and use nigger less if you are aiming to be part of the mainstream popular music. What I am getting at is that of course it is fine for Destiny to do and say whatever he wants on his own stream and he is popular because he does. However as a community we will be better off phasing the more controversial terms out of our vocabulary. The gaming community already has a bad social stigma that is slowly fading, but our use of crude and vulgar language is something that people against gaming always bring up. If we can eliminate this “point against us” then we can be one step closer to making esports socially acceptable as a main stream product.
i agree. but the ones swearing and cursing arent hindering the growth, and if they are they arent halting it. those who choose to say nigger and those who dont can live side by side and people who find nigger offensive can choose which rappers they want to listen to.
with that in mind why cant we have destinys 18+ stream and the pg13 nasl?
On June 02 2011 19:02 aquanda wrote: if anyone seriously believes fuck is on the same offensive level as nigger you're an idiot.
as an internet neck beard virgin i find the idea of anyone having sex just as offensive as black skin, as i dont have either.
hurr
more seriously though, calling people an idiot for disagreeing with your baseless opinion is kinda ironic
On June 02 2011 16:25 Doodsmack wrote: Funny how many people on the Destiny side of teh debate like to pretend that nigga (said when addressing friends) and nigger are the same thing.
thats destinys whole point though? wording is all about context and situation. it should be ok for destiny to say what he wants on his stream, within that context and setting its ok.
Yah, because calling someone nigger really just means that you are simply telling someone that they have black skin. Thank you for calling yourself an idiot by replying to my statement.
But you are the same person that trolled my earlier post though, so I'll just keep my statement at that, because it's obvious you are just here for your own personal amusement and nothing more.
if you are arguing that nigger isnt just about the skin colour then its not a racial slur and should be considered equal to the word fuck.
and i didnt troll your earlier post. the only thing your comment added was basically "LOL Y U ALL MAD" while being the only one foaming at the mouth in the whole thread.
You're not that quick, are you? The word "nigger" is obviously used to denote a black person in a derogatory fashion; if it is used about something which is not a black person, but used in a derogatory fashion, it still denotes that being black is something of less value than otherwise by implication.
If you honestly believe this, and other people in this thread do, I believe that every single one of you should be temp-banned for your next post if it doesn't include an explanation of how black people so freely use this word in rap music without disparaging their entire race every time the word is used.
Please, do explain.
Clearly Destiny got himself into a prominent debate about the N word without understanding much about the word.
On June 03 2011 04:14 Rocor wrote: man I used to like reading this thread... can you all at least say "n-word" instead ?
destiny (like alot of second rate rappers/comedians) uses those controversial words for shock value, they appeal to the lowest common denominator audience (the jerry springer crowd)
I just wish he played a different game and did not advertise his stream on this site since he feels no obligation to represent the community (his quote from SOTG)
maybe a better way to say it is that people shouldn't use words that they don't really understand
Okay seriously for anyone who agrees with this guy I have a question. What is the difference between me saying "n-word" instead of "nigger" Similar to if someone says "wtf" instead of "what the fuck" you are still saying fuck in your head, you are still hearing the word. This isn't a case of replacing a word like "what the poo" instead of "what the shit" as while poo is the same thing its the word shit that offends some people. Using "n-word" you arent replacing the word with a synonym. You are saying you are afraid of using the word, so you will just make sure everyone knows what you means that you want to say nigger. You guys fear "nigger" more than a wizard fears voldemort.
On June 03 2011 04:14 Rocor wrote: man I used to like reading this thread... can you all at least say "n-word" instead ?
destiny (like alot of second rate rappers/comedians) uses those controversial words for shock value, they appeal to the lowest common denominator audience (the jerry springer crowd)
I just wish he played a different game and did not advertise his stream on this site since he feels no obligation to represent the community (his quote from SOTG)
maybe a better way to say it is that people shouldn't use words that they don't really understand
Okay seriously for anyone who agrees with this guy I have a question. What is the difference between me saying "n-word" instead of "nigger" Similar to if someone says "wtf" instead of "what the fuck" you are still saying fuck in your head, you are still hearing the word. This isn't a case of replacing a word like "what the poo" instead of "what the shit" as while poo is the same thing its the word shit that offends some people. Using "n-word" you arent replacing the word with a synonym. You are saying you are afraid of using the word, so you will just make sure everyone knows what you means that you want to say nigger. You guys fear "nigger" more than a wizard fears voldemort.
man I used to like reading this thread... can you all at least say "you know who" instead ?
Are you serious?
For former death eaters to use it carries all of its awful implications from the past, those are inescapable. For harry potter supporters to use it with each, it represents a liberation (of sorts) in that a negative, offensive term has been reclaimed and successfully made part of their vocabulary.
Basically for those of you who dont understand what destiny is saying he is basically saying fuck you guys i will do what i want to do and say what i want to say, i don't have any obligations to the sc2 community, if you dont like it get out of my stream.
On June 03 2011 06:59 Kamikiri wrote: Basically for those of you who dont understand what destiny is saying he is basically saying fuck you guys i will do what i want to do and say what i want to say, i don't have any obligations to the sc2 community, if you dont like it get out of my stream.
And he's right in saying so. I haven't listened to any of his casts, but if he wants to stream that way, he obviously should.
On June 03 2011 06:59 Kamikiri wrote: Basically for those of you who dont understand what destiny is saying he is basically saying fuck you guys i will do what i want to do and say what i want to say, i don't have any obligations to the sc2 community, if you dont like it get out of my stream.
hes just streaming what hes doing and hes letting you watch if you want to, your choice
Oh for god sakes.... Saying that its ok for black people to say nigger to each other yet taboo to white people is like saying its perfectly fine for germans to run around Netherlands shouting "hail hitler!" with swastika signs but condemned for any dutch man.
It either is, or isn't ok. There is no middle ground or conditions. Because the moment you say its ok for X and not Y, then its considered racism.
iNcontrol is TBS Tyler is VH1 Artosis is ESPN Destiny is STARZ
Each has their place and you know what to expect when you listen to there stream. While I personally think some words should be avoided it doesn't upset me when people use them. It does make me uncomfortable but so does a bad pair of socks.
On June 03 2011 07:18 yawnoC wrote: examples... some of them are bad but I dont care
iNcontrol is TBS Tyler is VH1 Artosis is ESPN Destiny is STARZ
Each has their place and you know what to expect when you listen to there stream. While I personally think some words should be avoided it doesn't upset me when people use them. It does make me uncomfortable but so does a bad pair of socks.
ROFL
Have you ever seen Artosis stream? That is an unrated pay-per-view movie about some guy getting trolled and losing every game.
EPT
