• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:21
CEST 03:21
KST 10:21
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S RO12 Preview: Maru, Trigger, Rogue, NightMare12Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, sOs, Reynor, Solar15[ASL19] Ro8 Preview: Unyielding3Official Ladder Map Pool Update (April 28, 2025)17[ASL19] Ro8 Preview: Rejuvenation8
Community News
Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A Results (2025)4$1,250 WardiTV May [May 6th-May 18th]4Clem wins PiG Sty Festival #66Weekly Cups (April 28-May 4): ByuN & Astrea break through1Nexon wins bid to develop StarCraft IP content, distribute Overwatch mobile game29
StarCraft 2
General
How does the number of casters affect your enjoyment of esports? Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A Results (2025) Code S RO12 Preview: Maru, Trigger, Rogue, NightMare Nexon wins bid to develop StarCraft IP content, distribute Overwatch mobile game Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, sOs, Reynor, Solar
Tourneys
[GSL 2025] Code S:Season 1 - RO12 - Group A INu's Battles#12 < ByuN vs herO > [GSL 2025] Code S:Season 1 - RO12 - Group B GSL 2025 details announced - 2 seasons pre-EWC 2025 GSL Season 2 (Qualifiers)
Strategy
[G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 472 Dead Heat Mutation # 471 Delivery Guaranteed Mutation # 470 Certain Demise Mutation # 469 Frostbite
Brood War
General
Preserving Battlereports.com OGN to release AI-upscaled StarLeague from Feb 24 Battlenet Game Lobby Simulator [G] GenAI subtitles for Korean BW content BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[ASL19] Ro8 Day 4 [BSL20] RO32 Group F - Saturday 20:00 CET [BSL20] RO32 Group E - Sunday 20:00 CET [CSLPRO] $1000 Spring is Here!
Strategy
[G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player Creating a full chart of Zerg builds [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread What do you want from future RTS games? Nintendo Switch Thread Grand Theft Auto VI Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Plays: Diplomacy TL Mafia: Generative Agents Showdown Survivor II: The Amazon
Community
General
Ask and answer stupid questions here! Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Elon Musk's lies, propaganda, etc. UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Books] Wool by Hugh Howey Surprisingly good films/Hidden Gems
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread NHL Playoffs 2024 NBA General Discussion Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Cleaning My Mechanical Keyboard How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard?
TL Community
BLinD-RawR 50K Post Watch Party The Automated Ban List TL.net Ten Commandments
Blogs
Info SLEgma_12
SLEgma_12
SECOND COMMING
XenOsky
What High-Performing Teams (…
TrAiDoS
WombaT’s Old BW Terran Theme …
WombaT
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
BW PvZ Balance hypothetic…
Vasoline73
Test Entry for subject
xumakis
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 12743 users

Reduced Violence Option

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Normal
Gareth
Profile Joined April 2010
United States39 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-07 19:56:46
July 07 2010 19:56 GMT
#1
*click for bigger pic*

[image loading]

Didn't China BAN Sc2 because of the "excessive amount of blood" and Violence?

---- Glad im not Chinese @____@
._.
Vei
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2845 Posts
July 07 2010 19:58 GMT
#2
lol, enjoy your watered down game chn/kor or whoever else rated the game Mature or whatever. Jesus that sucks.
www.justin.tv/veisc2 ~ 720p + commentary
fams
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada731 Posts
July 07 2010 20:00 GMT
#3
I'm all for it, options like these allow for younger kids to get into the games, their parents can control the blood, etc, and their kids still get to play an amazing game.
http://www.twitter.com/famsytron/
Blackfoot
Profile Joined July 2010
3 Posts
July 07 2010 20:01 GMT
#4
So I wonder how the logistics are gonna work out with foreign/international tournaments. This change I think was made so that SC2 can be broadcasted (at least in Korea I heard), but what if its a tournament outside the korea domain, will they not broadcast it? Seems like a hassle.
Melancholia
Profile Joined March 2010
United States717 Posts
July 07 2010 20:03 GMT
#5
It looks optional, Vei.
professorjoak
Profile Joined July 2008
318 Posts
July 07 2010 20:06 GMT
#6
I wonder if unit death animations will clear the screen faster. If reduced violence also makes the battlefield less cluttered then I don't see a problem.
"The different branches of Arithmetic -- Ambition, Distraction, Uglification, and Derision." --Lewis Carroll
VirtualAlex
Profile Joined May 2010
41 Posts
July 07 2010 20:08 GMT
#7
I mean options are always good. It's not going to hurt anyone who doesn't click the box. They probably felt some pressure to add it in.
Jsingles
Profile Joined April 2010
United States66 Posts
July 07 2010 20:13 GMT
#8
I am curious to see exactly what this entail in game.

As far as this making any difference for a country like China, I doubt that...
Even a child can probably figure out how to access the options menu and turn this off...

Lets face it, StarCraft is really not aimed at an audience too young to figure out how to use the options menu....
Mid Diamond
clusen
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany8702 Posts
July 07 2010 20:18 GMT
#9
On July 08 2010 05:13 Jsingles wrote:
I am curious to see exactly what this entail in game.

As far as this making any difference for a country like China, I doubt that...
Even a child can probably figure out how to access the options menu and turn this off...

Lets face it, StarCraft is really not aimed at an audience too young to figure out how to use the options menu....

They will probably not have that option and gore will be reduced by default.
Vei
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2845 Posts
July 07 2010 20:20 GMT
#10
On July 08 2010 05:03 Melancholia wrote:
It looks optional, Vei.

Yeah. But, if you remember a recent news article, SC2 got a Mature (or adult?) rating in Korea and had to take out some drug references and reduce the gore. I'm guessing they just added the -violence as an option in US/EU clients because it was already coded in so might as well put it there in case you want some little kid to play SC2... and not traumatize him with all the gore because he's sensitive to that kind of stuff after killing civillians in airports in Call of Bloomgears 4
www.justin.tv/veisc2 ~ 720p + commentary
[Agony]x90
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States853 Posts
July 07 2010 20:21 GMT
#11
On July 08 2010 04:58 Vei wrote:
lol, enjoy your watered down game chn/kor or whoever else rated the game Mature or whatever. Jesus that sucks.


I'm certain this also includes Germany, since they love to censor all violent games. As for Korea, they already announced that they'll be releasing an "adult" version as well, which is essentially the game as it was meant to be.
JF dodger since 2009
Roffles *
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Pitcairn19291 Posts
July 07 2010 20:22 GMT
#12
On July 08 2010 05:20 Vei wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 08 2010 05:03 Melancholia wrote:
It looks optional, Vei.

Yeah. But, if you remember a recent news article, SC2 got a Mature (or adult?) rating in Korea and had to take out some drug references and reduce the gore. I'm guessing they just added the -violence as an option in US/EU clients because it was already coded in so might as well put it there in case you want some little kid to play SC2... and not traumatize him with all the gore because he's sensitive to that kind of stuff after killing civillians in airports in Call of Bloomgears 4

Pretty much anything in Korea gets like a Mature (Adult) rating. If you've ever seen Korean MVs, you'll see that half the 19+ material is like lol worthy.
God Bless
ItsTheFark
Profile Joined June 2010
United States158 Posts
July 07 2010 20:24 GMT
#13
So what.. stim packs will be stim cookies now?
Jsingles
Profile Joined April 2010
United States66 Posts
July 07 2010 20:28 GMT
#14
True.. I suppose they could have it be required in China...
Mid Diamond
PhiliBiRD
Profile Joined November 2009
United States2643 Posts
July 07 2010 20:31 GMT
#15
imo i wish the game had even more blood!

MOAR BLOOD MORE!
Slipspace
Profile Joined May 2010
United States381 Posts
July 07 2010 20:32 GMT
#16
no they are official renaming stim packs in those countries to "sunny d"
Deleted User 72834
Profile Joined April 2010
247 Posts
July 07 2010 20:32 GMT
#17
--- Nuked ---
Slipspace
Profile Joined May 2010
United States381 Posts
July 07 2010 20:32 GMT
#18
and instead of "mmm yeah," marines will same "mmm, love me some sunny d!"
Marou
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany1371 Posts
July 07 2010 20:33 GMT
#19
if i were, let say, i 11 years old kid, i would definetely turn it down since death animation are your favorite things in the game at this age
twitter@RickyMarou
Kezzer
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States1268 Posts
July 07 2010 20:34 GMT
#20
On July 08 2010 05:32 Slipspace wrote:
and instead of "mmm yeah," marines will same "mmm, love me some sunny d!"

"More milk and cookies please sir?"
stroggos
Profile Joined February 2009
New Zealand1543 Posts
July 07 2010 20:35 GMT
#21
THE BLOOD MUST FLOW
hi
Deleted User 39582
Profile Joined August 2008
317 Posts
July 07 2010 20:36 GMT
#22
I wonder if the 'reduced violence' option is there because of AWESOME NEW DEATH ANIMATIONS :D
CrunkOwns
Profile Joined April 2010
United States138 Posts
July 07 2010 20:56 GMT
#23
Wheres the increased violence option!?!?!?!?!?
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. – Seneca the Younger
Ghad
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway2551 Posts
July 07 2010 20:59 GMT
#24
Guys. Low violence option should be a standard in any modern game, given the bad press games are getting. Good move from Blizzard, also they should implement a parental lock.
forgottendreams: One underage girl, two drunk guys, one gogo dancer and starcraft 2. Apparently just another day in Europe.
Blisse
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada3710 Posts
July 07 2010 21:00 GMT
#25
Stimpacks are drugs. Get out of my country. XD

Yeah, no more Zealots cutting Marines in half. Awesome.
There is no one like you in the universe.
stroggos
Profile Joined February 2009
New Zealand1543 Posts
July 07 2010 21:10 GMT
#26
nsfw. I once exposed a kid to blood. And then he turned into a giant demon with fangs and ripped my head off and came inside of it
hi
knyttym
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States5797 Posts
July 07 2010 21:15 GMT
#27
On July 08 2010 05:34 BDF92 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 08 2010 05:32 Slipspace wrote:
and instead of "mmm yeah," marines will same "mmm, love me some sunny d!"

"More milk and cookies please sir?"


If the in game quotes are like these, I'll be glad to play on reduced gore ^^
Kratisto
Profile Joined June 2008
United States199 Posts
July 07 2010 21:22 GMT
#28
It also changes the menu music to Always by Erasure.
prochobo
Profile Joined May 2010
United States232 Posts
July 07 2010 21:25 GMT
#29
On July 08 2010 05:13 Jsingles wrote:
I am curious to see exactly what this entail in game.

As far as this making any difference for a country like China, I doubt that...
Even a child can probably figure out how to access the options menu and turn this off...

Lets face it, StarCraft is really not aimed at an audience too young to figure out how to use the options menu....


100% agreed. The average American child is all over their consoles and don't really know how to use a computer. If a child is good enough to figure out how to use a computer and learn the complex game of Starcraft, unticking a box is a walk in the park.
Ramsing
Profile Joined July 2007
Canada233 Posts
July 07 2010 21:26 GMT
#30
On July 08 2010 05:59 Ghad wrote:
Guys. Low violence option should be a standard in any modern game, given the bad press games are getting. Good move from Blizzard, also they should implement a parental lock.


Because I really care what the media has to say about video games?
AncienTs
Profile Joined March 2010
Japan227 Posts
July 07 2010 21:28 GMT
#31
nothing negative about this change... except the possibility of an influx of kiddies onto b.net, their parents placated by the option
Starcraft Disclaimer Language: There is no imbalance, nothing is OP.
atuor
Profile Joined July 2010
United States82 Posts
July 07 2010 21:29 GMT
#32
There should be a more violence option.
Evolve
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada63 Posts
July 07 2010 21:36 GMT
#33
On July 08 2010 06:29 atuor wrote:
There should be a more violence option.


Lmfao, ultralisk getting killed couldnt possibly get more gory...

or could it?

gogoblizzard
Easy772
Profile Joined May 2010
374 Posts
July 07 2010 23:04 GMT
#34
On July 08 2010 05:59 Ghad wrote:
Guys. Low violence option should be a standard in any modern game, given the bad press games are getting. Good move from Blizzard, also they should implement a parental lock.



Yeah, they should have an option for parents to lock this setting. I remember my mom not letting me play Doom II when I was a like 9, that sucked. I didn't need the violence, but I at least would have liked to be able to play.
"The best way to improve is to play one matchup on one map doing one strategy.. if you are good at one strategy you are a good player, if you are okay at many strategies you are an okay player at best" -Day[9] 181
prOxi.swAMi
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Australia3091 Posts
July 07 2010 23:06 GMT
#35
If it adds rainbows I will be enabling this option asap.
Oh no
Megaman703
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Canada688 Posts
July 07 2010 23:09 GMT
#36
I'll probably be turning this option on just so I can squeeze a little bit better performance out of my cruddy laptop.
Diaspora
Profile Joined April 2010
United States140 Posts
July 07 2010 23:10 GMT
#37
They most likely added this feature in hopes of getting the Mature rating in korea reduced to T
Disastorm
Profile Joined January 2008
United States922 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-07 23:16:28
July 07 2010 23:15 GMT
#38
These settings are always good. Not only do they allow kids to play awesome games, but they allow great countries like South Korea to as well.

On July 08 2010 08:10 Diaspora wrote:
They most likely added this feature in hopes of getting the Mature rating in korea reduced to T


They already got the rating to 12+ or 14+ or whatever it is. Most likely this option is not an option in South Korea, its probably mandatory.
"Don't worry so much man. There won't be any more zergs left to QQ. Lots of QQ about TvT is incoming though I bet." - Vrok 9/21/10
Tristan
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada566 Posts
July 07 2010 23:19 GMT
#39
You know what I want?

An enhanced violence feature.

a DT cuts a marine and he literally explodes and way more blood than possible in one human stains the map for the entire game.
http://Zangano431.tumblr.com/
buKe
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada168 Posts
July 07 2010 23:21 GMT
#40
On July 08 2010 05:00 fams wrote:
I'm all for it, options like these allow for younger kids to get into the games, their parents can control the blood, etc, and their kids still get to play an amazing game.

yah my mom just fired up sc2 and shes adjusting my settings so it is more to her tastes
zee
Profile Joined January 2010
201 Posts
July 07 2010 23:22 GMT
#41
On July 08 2010 08:19 TheElitists wrote:
You know what I want?

An enhanced violence feature.

a DT cuts a marine and he literally explodes and way more blood than possible in one human stains the map for the entire game.

Could it be possible through a mod?
Uhh Negative
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1090 Posts
July 07 2010 23:23 GMT
#42
If this can improve my FPS then I'm all for it.
Antares777
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1971 Posts
July 07 2010 23:44 GMT
#43
On July 08 2010 05:00 fams wrote:
I'm all for it, options like these allow for younger kids to get into the games, their parents can control the blood, etc, and their kids still get to play an amazing game.


And the kids can turn it back on when their parents aren't looking
im a roc
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States745 Posts
July 07 2010 23:48 GMT
#44
Wow, they had to go in and edit their cinematics for this? That seems like a huge amount of work; editing those crazy 3D models and re-rendering everything would take really long.
Beware The Proxy Pool Rush
Jayme
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States5866 Posts
July 07 2010 23:52 GMT
#45
On July 08 2010 05:00 fams wrote:
I'm all for it, options like these allow for younger kids to get into the games, their parents can control the blood, etc, and their kids still get to play an amazing game.


Right.

Because they haven't been exposed to say...Showtime or HBO by then right? I don't agree to this whole bubble thing people have with kids. Once they hit middle school good luck with hiding anything from them at all.

Anyway the fact that some marine just got destroyed by a zergling and exploded in blood isn't going to traumatize some kid anyway.
Python is garbage, number 1 advocate of getting rid of it.
Auronz
Profile Joined April 2010
Brazil119 Posts
July 07 2010 23:59 GMT
#46
Dude, I've said it before I'll say it again, I was playing Doom at the age of six and turned out fine. I don't see anything wrong really.
Unless the child has mental problems which usually are developed because of dysfunctional families or some form of abuse not by seeing people be blown up in a game or movie or anything. As long as the father explains to the son that it's all virtual and unreal and he shouldn't go do that to his peers, I see no problem. I learned to shoot at a relatively young age as well and am proud to say I never killed anyone in cold blood because of anger or anything like that, I suppose MANY others here grew up with the same stuff I did and are not killers.
Easy772
Profile Joined May 2010
374 Posts
July 08 2010 00:04 GMT
#47
On July 08 2010 08:59 Auronz wrote:
Dude, I've said it before I'll say it again, I was playing Doom at the age of six and turned out fine. I don't see anything wrong really.
Unless the child has mental problems which usually are developed because of dysfunctional families or some form of abuse not by seeing people be blown up in a game or movie or anything. As long as the father explains to the son that it's all virtual and unreal and he shouldn't go do that to his peers, I see no problem. I learned to shoot at a relatively young age as well and am proud to say I never killed anyone in cold blood because of anger or anything like that, I suppose MANY others here grew up with the same stuff I did and are not killers.



Yeah, I totally agree with you.. Too bad all parents couldn't be as cool as yours lol.. I had to wait til I was like 11 to play it
"The best way to improve is to play one matchup on one map doing one strategy.. if you are good at one strategy you are a good player, if you are okay at many strategies you are an okay player at best" -Day[9] 181
Polar_Nada
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States1548 Posts
July 08 2010 00:12 GMT
#48
On July 08 2010 08:21 buKe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 08 2010 05:00 fams wrote:
I'm all for it, options like these allow for younger kids to get into the games, their parents can control the blood, etc, and their kids still get to play an amazing game.

yah my mom just fired up sc2 and shes adjusting my settings so it is more to her tastes

like what other settings? besides the violence one?
mouse speed? O.o
[ReD]NaDa and fnaticMSI.SEn fighting~! ::POlar @ UC Irvine::
Normal
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 39m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 207
SteadfastSC 185
PiGStarcraft153
StarCraft: Brood War
soO 40
Sexy 22
NaDa 19
Icarus 7
Dota 2
febbydoto12
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
Fnx 470
flusha399
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor195
Other Games
FrodaN2316
shahzam582
ToD348
JimRising 299
C9.Mang0224
JuggernautJason54
Trikslyr51
PPMD35
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1362
StarCraft 2
ESL.tv131
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 21 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 83
• musti20045 33
• davetesta28
• HeavenSC 11
• Kozan
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 25
• Azhi_Dahaki24
• sM.Zik 3
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• Ler54
League of Legends
• Doublelift6389
• TFBlade1324
Other Games
• Scarra722
Upcoming Events
Online Event
2h 39m
ShoWTimE vs MaxPax
SHIN vs herO
Clem vs Cure
SHIN vs Clem
ShoWTimE vs SHIN
SOOP
7h 39m
DongRaeGu vs sOs
CranKy Ducklings
8h 39m
WardiTV Invitational
9h 39m
AllThingsProtoss
9h 39m
SC Evo League
10h 39m
WardiTV Invitational
12h 39m
Chat StarLeague
14h 39m
PassionCraft
15h 39m
Circuito Brasileiro de…
16h 39m
[ Show More ]
Online Event
1d 2h
MaxPax vs herO
SHIN vs Cure
Clem vs MaxPax
ShoWTimE vs herO
ShoWTimE vs Clem
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 8h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 9h
AllThingsProtoss
1d 9h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 12h
Chat StarLeague
1d 14h
Circuito Brasileiro de…
1d 16h
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
BeSt vs Light
Wardi Open
2 days
PiGosaur Monday
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Snow vs Soulkey
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
GSL Code S
4 days
ByuN vs Rogue
herO vs Cure
Replay Cast
4 days
GSL Code S
5 days
Classic vs Reynor
GuMiho vs Maru
The PondCast
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
GSL Code S
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL Nation Wars Season 2
PiG Sty Festival 6.0
Calamity Stars S2

Ongoing

StarCastTV Star League 4
JPL Season 2
ASL Season 19
YSL S1
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
China & Korea Top Challenge
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSLPRO Spring 2025
2025 GSL S1
Heroes 10 EU
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
ECL Season 49: Europe
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025
ESL Pro League S21

Upcoming

NPSL S3
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLAN 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2025
2025 GSL S2
DreamHack Dallas 2025
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.