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Autosurround

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
February 22 2010 18:24 GMT
#1
What are peoples thoughts on this? It certainly takes the fun out of melee battles and makes speedlings ridculously good. I'm not sure if this is a good or bad thing just yet.
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
-orb-
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States5770 Posts
February 22 2010 18:26 GMT
#2
I really tend to dislike it simply because of the lack of micro.

When you combine it with unlimited unit selection, attacking with zerglings/workers is just 1a click and watch for the next 20 seconds.
'life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery'
how sad that sc2 has no shield battery :(
Kinky
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States4126 Posts
February 22 2010 18:35 GMT
#3
I don't have the beta yet but judging from the streams, it does take a bit out of micro.

It's also extremely weird when you have a control group of zerglings surround a zealot and the ones who can't get in on the circle just run around the other zerglings.
Gedrah
Profile Joined February 2010
465 Posts
February 22 2010 18:49 GMT
#4
While the micro is not the same as in SC1, you can still micro (issue multiple specific orders to blobbed units during a battle) to get better effect out of your troops. If you don't do this, you could be stomped by someone who does. This is especially true with Speedlings and Chargelots. The "blob" has to be repositioned frequently so they don't choke one another and to keep position optimum and auto-surround is really bad at doing this for you. pressing 1a+click is not the same as operating your army.
What is a dickfour?
Wr3k
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada2533 Posts
February 22 2010 18:52 GMT
#5
It's still beneficial to micro surrounds, just a little easier to catch stray units running away etc.. If you attack move lings into marines, its not nearly as good as moving as if you would surround in SC1. Its just now, they path 10x better, don't bunch up, and completely surround and encapsulate the marines lol.
mmp
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States2130 Posts
February 22 2010 18:54 GMT
#6
Won't there be situations where you need to avoid splash damage by manually splitting up your blob of units? Seige tanks, storm, and that Raven homing scarab nuke come to mind.
I (λ (foo) (and (<3 foo) ( T_T foo) (RAGE foo) )) Starcraft
pachi
Profile Joined October 2006
Melbourne5338 Posts
February 22 2010 19:23 GMT
#7
I hate auto surround. it makes it impossible to retreat half my unis because they automatically super run at my opponents T_T
Moderatorpachi fanclub http://goto.tl/6DI9 。◕‿◕。
404.Delirium
Profile Joined May 2008
United States1190 Posts
February 22 2010 19:27 GMT
#8
So I take it no more ridiculously exciting Zealot vs Zealot micro/pulling wars? =(

Looks like you're just controlling the gist of your units; the blob of them.
seriously next disrespectful comment in this blog is ip ban. Be happy or get the hell out. // SC2 is like playing with neutral-colored Play-Doh while BW is like colorful Legos.
meeple
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Canada10211 Posts
February 22 2010 19:52 GMT
#9
It might turn out that at lower levels its good but at higher levels you need to micro to combat the autosurround... like splitting up your units or during ling battles perhaps?
zee
Profile Joined January 2010
201 Posts
February 22 2010 19:53 GMT
#10
On February 23 2010 03:35 Kinky wrote:
I don't have the beta yet but judging from the streams, it does take a bit out of micro.

It's also extremely weird when you have a control group of zerglings surround a zealot and the ones who can't get in on the circle just run around the other zerglings.

Uhm im 99 percent sure that happens in sc1 as well. Or the zerglings that cant get around attack the closest enemy target.
UmmTheHobo
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States650 Posts
February 22 2010 19:53 GMT
#11
On February 23 2010 04:27 404.Delirium wrote:
So I take it no more ridiculously exciting Zealot vs Zealot micro/pulling wars? =(

Looks like you're just controlling the gist of your units; the blob of them.


You can still pull your units out, its not like you can't control your units anymore.
...
LunarC
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States1186 Posts
February 22 2010 19:54 GMT
#12
Is auto surround still in the game? I guess this is part of Blizzard's attempt to make the game more accessible, but I honestly can't see how a function that interferes with unit control can possibly be good for high level competitive play.
REEBUH!!!
Jyvblamo
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada13788 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-22 19:56:25
February 22 2010 19:55 GMT
#13
On February 23 2010 04:54 LunarC wrote:
Is auto surround still in the game? I guess this is part of Blizzard's attempt to make the game more accessible, but I honestly can't see how a function that interferes with unit control can possibly be good for high level competitive play.

I'm not sure that the stem of the problem has to do with AI taking control away from the player, but rather more to do with smarter unit pathing and lower collision sizes.
LunarC
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States1186 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-22 21:42:41
February 22 2010 21:42 GMT
#14
If the issue is with people selecting all of their units and a-moving, why not simply limit the number of units per hotkey to 24?
REEBUH!!!
Gedrah
Profile Joined February 2010
465 Posts
February 22 2010 21:52 GMT
#15
Because that's a stupid arbitrary limitation that has no good motivation and doesn't improve control in any way. You're still free to put 24 units on YOUR hotkeys, but I'm going to put 30+ on mine. And I don't find it a miserable struggle. Microing single units to keep them alive longer or microing your army to improve surround's effect on battles is still possible. Play the game more before you're so sure it needs to change, is my mouthy little bit of advice. I think it's great :X
What is a dickfour?
semantics
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
10040 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-22 21:57:49
February 22 2010 21:54 GMT
#16
On February 23 2010 03:24 Plexa wrote:
What are peoples thoughts on this? It certainly takes the fun out of melee battles and makes speedlings ridiculously good. I'm not sure if this is a good or bad thing just yet.

It also makes charing zealots insanely good as they make a pretty good wall and it's hard to get off a surround.
against a large number of zealots because they auto spread out.
Klive5ive
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United Kingdom6056 Posts
February 22 2010 22:05 GMT
#17
On February 23 2010 03:24 Plexa wrote:
What are peoples thoughts on this? It certainly takes the fun out of melee battles and makes speedlings ridculously good. I'm not sure if this is a good or bad thing just yet.

From the streams it looks more like a difference than a bad change.
Now it's a bit easier to micro Zealots you can focus on using your sentries correctly and focus firing with your stalkers.
In SC1 even top players couldn't handle microing units and spellcasters at the same time so spellcasters such as DAs and Queens became sidelined. This is just a switch in priorities.

In small numbers micro still helps a lot. If you watch the Nony vs Dayvie game Nony does a great job of microing Zealots against Dayvie's lings and Roaches. It's just in larger numbers players won't need to babysit their melee units so much.
Don't hate the player - Hate the game
crate
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States2474 Posts
February 22 2010 22:35 GMT
#18
From what I've seen, it makes sense. Seems like just a byproduct of the game dealing with group pathing instead of individual unit pathing now.

If I tell my zerglings to attack something, I want as many of them attacking as soon as possible and this is what the new pathing/"autosurround" does, whereas in SC1 they get in each others' way so you have to do something counterintuitive to get them to attack properly (run your lings halfway past the target).

It's hardly perfect from what I've seen, but a hell of a lot better than just having all the lings try to beeline to attack position and then half of them not get there.
We did. You did. Yes we can. No. || http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/crate.html || twitch.tv/crate3333
keepITup
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
251 Posts
February 22 2010 22:38 GMT
#19
I think it was a good decision to include it in the game personally.
Xirt
Profile Joined April 2009
Scotland52 Posts
February 22 2010 22:41 GMT
#20
I have mixed feelings towards this, it definately takes alot out of the micro and i have had some problems with getting banelings into position when there was a solid ring of zerglings round the terran ball. That said its hard to see any solution since I dont think making the units more stupid is really a step forward.
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