EPTThe refinement of macro ideas: a destination - Page 2
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
n00bonicPlague
United States197 Posts
| ||
|
Archerofaiur
United States4101 Posts
On December 28 2009 05:52 n00bonicPlague wrote: I think "show me the money" is a bit overkill in comparison to the other two. I'd use "whats mine is mine" (+500 minerals) and "breathe deep" (+500 gas) for comparison instead. Good point. | ||
|
cerebralz
United States443 Posts
| ||
|
Archerofaiur
United States4101 Posts
On December 28 2009 06:50 cerebralz wrote: Admittedly, the OP idea pertaining to unit production somewhat overlaps with warp gate. This seems easy to fix however, by just making warp gate and speed warp unstackable, or make gateways unaffected by speed warp, so you would only target a robo bay, stargate, or nexus for unit production bonuses. I don't think this would be overpowered because you can only target one building with speed warp while warp gate may affect all of your gateways if you so choose. Only in the late game, where you have a lot of nexuses, can you possibly affect all of your non-gateway production facilities. It may also come into play more because of the move of the Immortal to the robo facility. Ask yourself, why are they not including a mechanic like peasant speed build from Warcraft 3? ![[image loading]](http://classic.battle.net/war3/images/human/units/animations/peasant.gif) | ||
|
geegee1
United States618 Posts
| ||
|
Archerofaiur
United States4101 Posts
| ||
|
Archerofaiur
United States4101 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.sc2armory.com/img/zerg/units/queen.jpg) Zerg Queen Spawn Larva Creep Tumor Hyper Evolution: 10X research speed for current upgrade And Id move the healing spell to the overseer and make it AoE. | ||
|
s[O]rry
Canada398 Posts
| ||
|
JohannesH
Finland1364 Posts
You'd always have this thing, nexuses, that do it. It would be a minor effect, but effect that would add alot of diversity/uncertainty into timings. Range limit is cool since it encourages you to spread your stuff around. And it would involve constant reward for managing what it does and managing it would be hard decisions. Imo better implementation would be though to not do it thru cooldowns and switching target every minute, but a constant stream of boost that you can retarget at any time. You might say that that would allow for more lazy use but in reality it would require much madder clicking to use optimally that way... Say you got some gateways pumping the same type of units... Gotta change the gateway you target every time a unit completes, thats switching the target as many times as you have gateways, every production round. It reminds me of constructor assist in TA a bit... Does it matter if it overlaps with Warpgate possibly? More overlapping shit = more complex management, and thats what I want | ||
|
Archerofaiur
United States4101 Posts
On December 28 2009 11:56 JohannesH wrote: This is a cool idea, much much better than lame "click to get money". Do you realize that making workers is a "click to get money" mechanic? | ||
|
Shadowfury333
Canada314 Posts
On December 28 2009 07:08 Archerofaiur wrote: Ask yourself, why are they not including a mechanic like peasant speed build from Warcraft 3? It could very well be for flavour//universe-separation reasons, given that Blizzard would likely want to avoid further WC3 in space comparisons. Mind you, that sort of mechanic would only really fit Terran, as they actively build their structures. | ||
|
n00bonicPlague
United States197 Posts
| ||
|
SWPIGWANG
Canada482 Posts
As for peasant build speed, it is just a limited ability that doesn't do very much in itself. This, however, does a lot more. ------------- You cant boost every process, its unfocused, unelegant and causes more problems than it solves. Unfocused abilities are much better than focused ones, since its exact uses are not so obvious as to be trivial. By expanding the realm of influences the strategies involved is more complex. Focused concepts often have implication and strategies that takes 5 minutes to figure out. So which leads to a better positive feedback loop? Something for nothing, show me the money or operation cwal? What you mean by positive feedback loop? Macro is something you do to get units, not some kind of magic. Show me the money obviously generates the most "macro", if you are wondering. Since being able to max in 3 minutes takes far more clicks then the other options. I'm not sure if you are even asking the right questions. If the question is how to promote a "macro" play style, that is beyond trivial. Just go play one of those "fastest map ever ums" and you'd see 100% macro styles since micro is irrelevant in those games. All you need to do to increase macro is to increase the resource uptake speed and the natural friction of building supply, building production buildings, and so on would take up increasing amounts of APM, especially given that even SC2 do not have building queuing or partial construction as in TA. I don't think what the community wants is necessarily more clicks, or hit the "dune limit" with regard to babysitting the economy, but more strategy that is not a sideshow. Much of the economic suggestions I've read are sideshows, and sideshows that has strategy that is either trivial to figure out, or rarely applicable, comparable to proxy hatch into sunken rush, the sort of thing that is only rarely useful. | ||
|
mkay
Italy20 Posts
| ||
|
Archerofaiur
United States4101 Posts
On December 28 2009 15:08 SWPIGWANG wrote: Yes, building workers is "click to get money", and that is why we get automine because "click to get money" is lame . Surprise automine is also "click to get money"! | ||
|
Archerofaiur
United States4101 Posts
On December 28 2009 15:08 SWPIGWANG wrote: Unfocused abilities are much better than focused ones, since its exact uses are not so obvious as to be trivial. In the words of the great Maro "restrictions breed creativity". Having a "speed up everything button" has many problems the first of which is inequality in usage. As in speeding up research is almost always better than speeding up unit production. So to fix this you make it different for each different use and now your messing with the "easy to learn" part. So than you say "well their are other things that are hard to learn" and at that point you should realize that rather than adopt elegance as a defining guideline youve attempted to shoehorn the player into your first draft creation. All in the name of a "big tent" ability. But lets hear your reply to this and then well move onto the second problem :p Show me the money obviously generates the most "macro", Im glad you admit this. If the question is how to promote a "macro" play style, that is beyond trivial. I hate to be the first one to tell you but promoting a macro playstyle is the point of the macro mechanics. | ||
|
Strayline
United States330 Posts
| ||
|
SWPIGWANG
Canada482 Posts
Having a "speed up everything button" has many problems the first of which is inequality in usage. As in speeding up research is almost always better than speeding up unit production. Hardly, otherwise we'd see a evolution chamber first build over pool or hatch first build! You need upgrades to hit at the right timing, for example the +1 speedlot rush or storm push out. You do not need upgrades to hit earlier. There is a reason why people build single e-bay, forge and armory in many mid game situations, because upgrades are no good if you are dead to a rush or get out expanded 5 to 2. If upgrades are "too good" and you always want to get it faster, then the obvious choice is to nerf the upgrade cost/time as opposed to the ability. I hate to be the first one to tell you but promoting a macro playstyle is the point of the macro mechanics. Macro play style can either be boring or interesting. What you care about is that there is a macro style and not whether it is any good and thus it is just trivial. Giving more minerals in a flat manner just not interesting. If you look at games (like some european RTS or rise of nations) that actually is designed around the economy as opposed to fine tuning combat units, you see more resources, resource conversions, resource transport beyond harvesting and so on. Most of that reflect in crazy simcities and building layout of those games and few of that ever is about reward extra task that is APM constrained. Look, simcity is fun enough to be its own game. If "click on minerals a lot" can be made into a successful independent game then lets see it. | ||
|
Archerofaiur
United States4101 Posts
| ||
|
SWPIGWANG
Canada482 Posts
Tell me, what the hell is "macro playstyles" in you mind.... | ||
| ||
