• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 01:52
CET 07:52
KST 15:52
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Dark completes military service, returns to SC26[BSL23] RO16 Group Stage17Weekly Cups (Nov 2-8): herO back on top?2Weekly Cups (Oct 26 - Nov 1): MaxPax, herO, Solar win0Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175
StarCraft 2
General
Dark completes military service, returns to SC2 No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? Greetings.. Serral's getting trashed by New Catsle's Mind Weekly Cups (Nov 2-8): herO back on top?
Tourneys
Dark returns! GSL CK #7 4v4 Team Battle (Nov 19) Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) soO & FanTaSy return! SC2 Kevin Scrim 4v4 (Nov 16) RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 Tasteless Time Warp: SC Evo Showmatch (May 25)
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
Starcraft 2 Advance [G] How to playtest arcade maps [D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 551 Robotic Revival Mutation # 550 Graveyard Shift Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles
Brood War
General
List of top players active on ShieldBattery Recommended BW Settings for Mouse and Video BW General Discussion Starcraft:Brood War Discord Servers [BSL23] RO16 Group Stage
Tourneys
[BSL23] Ro16 Group C - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL23] Ro16 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET [$1250] International ShieldBattery League [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Pluto's TvP 5Marine 2Medic Push Infested Terran strategies in 2026 Nuke strategy worked in K-League 2026-11-09 50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread List of Game Threads The PlayStation 5 Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile
Dota 2
Can Game Data Analytics Help Players Improvements
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Dating: How's your luck?
Fan Clubs
Fan Club Resource Thread Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
VCT 2027 America Kickoff LAT…
anakin.
The time I organised my…
AssyrianKing
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 11313 users

NBA Season 2017-2018 - Page 30

Forum Index > Sports
Post a Reply
Prev 1 28 29 30 31 32 143 Next
Nemireck
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada1875 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-15 03:49:33
November 15 2017 03:46 GMT
#581
On November 15 2017 12:37 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
it is a "mystery" to both the TSN and SPortsnet broadcasting teams.... which is why i brought it up.
of course, they're both owned by the guys that own the Raptors so i guess we shouldn't expect too much.

OG needs to start at SF. I'd like to see Powell start at shooting guard and Derozan come off the bench... but i don't ever see that happening.


It's not really a mystery to them either. It's their job to talk about bullshit all day long to give tradesmen/women driving around in their cars all day something to listen to. All you need to do is spend 10 minutes listening to a Jays Talk or a Mcowan call-in Monday/Friday to get a grasp for the type of person that treats these networks with any type of analytical respect.

Fuck, Jeff Blair keeps harping on DeRozan taking more 3's, which shows the extent to which he actually understands a damn thing he talks about when he discusses basketball. DeRozan's main improvement will come from defense and ball-distribution. Nothing more.
Teamwork is awesome... As long as your team is doing all the work!
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
November 15 2017 04:23 GMT
#582
--- Nuked ---
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada18051 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-15 05:19:49
November 15 2017 05:04 GMT
#583
the Raptors 11 man rotation really comes in handy for these back to back games. LOL.
On November 15 2017 12:46 Nemireck wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 15 2017 12:37 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
it is a "mystery" to both the TSN and SPortsnet broadcasting teams.... which is why i brought it up.
of course, they're both owned by the guys that own the Raptors so i guess we shouldn't expect too much.

OG needs to start at SF. I'd like to see Powell start at shooting guard and Derozan come off the bench... but i don't ever see that happening.


It's not really a mystery to them either. It's their job to talk about bullshit all day long to give tradesmen/women driving around in their cars all day something to listen to. All you need to do is spend 10 minutes listening to a Jays Talk or a Mcowan call-in Monday/Friday to get a grasp for the type of person that treats these networks with any type of analytical respect.

Fuck, Jeff Blair keeps harping on DeRozan taking more 3's, which shows the extent to which he actually understands a damn thing he talks about when he discusses basketball. DeRozan's main improvement will come from defense and ball-distribution. Nothing more.

Before Rogers owned both the Fan590 and the Blue Jays at the same time Bob McCown provided excellent baseball analysis. McCown's "Vegas Line" returned 20% on your $20,000 bet investment each year with MLB bets being the foundation of his betting column. the 1990s Bob McCown Jays Talk was superb.

They just refuse to hire guys similar to what McCown was in his prime. Both TSN and Sportsnet basketball coverage teams are filled with "token Canadians".

I've seen Blair on the early morning subway a couple of times... man, he is as ugly as he is miserable
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Nemireck
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada1875 Posts
November 15 2017 17:09 GMT
#584
On November 15 2017 13:23 JimmiC wrote:
Advanced stats people would have hated Iverson, but brown built a team that went to the finals around the one thing he did great, better then almost everyone who played the game. When you have elite talents you build a system to fit their strengths, if everyone ran the SG system they would not be great because they wouldn't have the talent matched the system.


It's funny you mention Iverson, because that's EXACTLY the type of player I compare DeRozan to. An overrated, elite offensive talent that doesn't play D and will never win a championship.

Don't get me wrong, I love DeRozan, just wish we had a Durant/Butler/Leonard/LeBron ahead of him on the depth chart. (A guy can dream, anyway.)
Teamwork is awesome... As long as your team is doing all the work!
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
November 15 2017 18:10 GMT
#585
--- Nuked ---
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada18051 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-15 18:58:12
November 15 2017 18:30 GMT
#586
On November 15 2017 13:23 JimmiC wrote:
The issue most "basketball people" have with "analytics people"

i'm neither an "analytics" person nor a "basketball" person. yep, The dichotomy of opinion between both groups is there.

On November 15 2017 13:23 JimmiC wrote:
when they say shit like Derozn should come of the bench because person B is producing better numbers. It is just wrong, I don't have the time or willingness to put in all effort to fully explain. Person B is putting up said numbers in a small sample size, against worst competition, in less crucial moments. And so on and so forth. Also, not getting the defense designed or shifted against them.

this is the view i'd have taken 15 years ago when no metrics existed that took into account the quality of one's team mates and opposition. Now, APM or Adjusted Plus Minus creates 60,000 "time slices" with every 5v5 match up in the entire NBA. A giant matrix is created containing 60,000 rows and is "solved for". All 9 people on the court with the player are accounted for.

A simplified version of how Adjusted Plus/Minus works is up on Nylon Calculus. I've posted it in the past and so has one other user. Here it is again.
https://fansided.com/2014/09/25/glossary-plus-minus-adjusted-plus-minus/

RAPM is even more accurate than APM and RAPM is even better at accounting for team mates. That said, if Popovich surgically employs Kyle Anderson for 15 minutes a game it will appear statistically, based on RAPM, that Anderson is a slightly better defender than Leonard. When, in fact, Leonard is somewhat better than Anderson. But, that's not what is going on in this case. We're talking about a massive difference in defensive ability.

Even if you sweep aside the "fancy math" and take a simple look. Derozan makes the defensive rating of every single Toronto Raptor worse. His defense is horrible. Raptors defensive rating is 94 with him on the bench and 110 with him in hte game. No other Raptor even comes close to having this negative an impact on the defensive end.

I am not proposing Powell replace Derozan. Powell is already a starter. The line up I propose of JV/Ibaka/OG/Powell/Lowry is a better line up than JV/Ibaka/Powell/Derozan/Lowry on BOTH offense and defense.

The JV/Ibaka/Powell/Derozan/Lowry lineup has had 146 minutes of court time this year. And it ain't good.
http://www.82games.com/1718/1718TOR2.HTM

Even with that knee injury, how OG went 23rd in this year's draft i'll never know. damn he is good. he is a really smart player.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
andrewlt
Profile Joined August 2009
United States7702 Posts
November 15 2017 20:28 GMT
#587
On November 16 2017 03:10 JimmiC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2017 02:09 Nemireck wrote:
On November 15 2017 13:23 JimmiC wrote:
Advanced stats people would have hated Iverson, but brown built a team that went to the finals around the one thing he did great, better then almost everyone who played the game. When you have elite talents you build a system to fit their strengths, if everyone ran the SG system they would not be great because they wouldn't have the talent matched the system.


It's funny you mention Iverson, because that's EXACTLY the type of player I compare DeRozan to. An overrated, elite offensive talent that doesn't play D and will never win a championship.

Don't get me wrong, I love DeRozan, just wish we had a Durant/Butler/Leonard/LeBron ahead of him on the depth chart. (A guy can dream, anyway.)

No doubt that Derozan is not in the league of those super elite players because of defense and so on. Im just saying it makes no sense to put him off the bench when he is your best player. The best thing you can do is try to accentuate his strengths and hide his weaknesses.
If the comment was we should swap him for any of the players you memtioned i would say hell ya. But swaping deronzn for a much worse (at this stage) overall player necause he does one part better, in a smaller roll and sample size makes no sense.


It's not just defense that plagues him. I think Lebron beats him in a 3-pt contest easy. Unfortunately, he plays a 90s style of offensive basketball (iso, mid-range, holds ball too long, one-on-one) that is currently frowned upon. It's to his credit that he does really well on a type of basketball that is less efficient than what is in vogue.
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
November 15 2017 21:52 GMT
#588
--- Nuked ---
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada18051 Posts
November 15 2017 22:55 GMT
#589
On November 16 2017 06:52 JimmiC wrote:Im just saying that saying you should cut his minutes on the raptors because OG is a better option is dumb. There will be no "proof" on this because they will never do it to show the negative effect. People who completely discount analytics are crazy, but their case is made for them by the uneducated people who make stupid claims based on them.

without getting into the details of why it is dumb you don't have a case. you've just labelled it dumb.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
November 16 2017 01:50 GMT
#590
--- Nuked ---
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada18051 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-16 02:58:30
November 16 2017 02:49 GMT
#591
On November 16 2017 06:52 JimmiC wrote: Im just saying that saying you should cut his minutes on the raptors because OG is a better option is dumb.


On November 16 2017 10:50 JimmiC wrote:
Turn down the narcissism, not only was I not talking to you, but I'm activity trying to avoid conversation with you.

how many others have proposed an increase in OG's minutes in exchange for a decrease in Derozan's minutes? so far , only me.
The line up I propose of JV/Ibaka/OG/Powell/Lowry is a better line up than JV/Ibaka/Powell/Derozan/Lowry on BOTH offense and defense.
The JV/Ibaka/Powell/Derozan/Lowry lineup has had 146 minutes of court time this year. And it ain't good.
http://www.82games.com/1718/1718TOR2.HTM


you've presented nothing that defends your position. you've just stated you don't have time to explain yourself.

the last few games Casey's strategy for dealing with any player under 6'10" that the Raptors can't stop is: Stick OG on him.

so i think we're going to see OG's minutes rise above the current 18.7 minutes a game. if that means Derozan gets less than his usual 36 minutes a game then that's great.

About Tonight's Game: I'm surprised Lowry still has most of this teeth LOL.. holy fuck he is gettin' beat up tonight.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-16 03:04:46
November 16 2017 02:57 GMT
#592
--- Nuked ---
Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-16 03:07:23
November 16 2017 03:06 GMT
#593
Just don't respond. We've all been guilty of going on side arguments with various people. You don't have to totally ignore him. Just make a conscious effort not to get into a back and forth.
I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada18051 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-16 03:08:11
November 16 2017 03:06 GMT
#594
here is a look at all players averaging 20+ points a game and their efficiency as scorers
i think the horizontal line in the middle of the graph is the average true shooting percentage of the average NBA player

[image loading]

Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Nemireck
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada1875 Posts
November 16 2017 03:51 GMT
#595
Good couple of games from CJ Miles these past two nights. Haven't been able to watch the games but just looking at the stats I would venture a guess that the Raptors are starting to figure out this new style of offense.

Also just watched BBallBreakDown's video on Ben Simmons. Good God that kid has great vision on the court already.
Teamwork is awesome... As long as your team is doing all the work!
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada18051 Posts
November 16 2017 05:17 GMT
#596
once again, Jordan Clarkson is outplaying Lonzo Ball and deserves more minutes than Ball.
On November 16 2017 12:51 Nemireck wrote:
just watched BBallBreakDown's video on Ben Simmons. Good God that kid has great vision on the court already.

link?
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
sung_moon
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States10110 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-16 06:15:33
November 16 2017 05:55 GMT
#597
Typical 2 minute warning Sixer's withholding, thoroughly enjoying beating Ball/Lakers. :D

Going to check out that BBallBreakdown of my boy SImmons tomorrow now thanks.

Trust the Process boooooooys
Forever Young
Nemireck
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada1875 Posts
November 16 2017 15:54 GMT
#598
On November 16 2017 14:17 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
once again, Jordan Clarkson is outplaying Lonzo Ball and deserves more minutes than Ball.
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2017 12:51 Nemireck wrote:
just watched BBallBreakDown's video on Ben Simmons. Good God that kid has great vision on the court already.

link?


Half of me was tempted to lmgtfy.com your lazy ass, but here you go:

Teamwork is awesome... As long as your team is doing all the work!
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada18051 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-16 17:41:40
November 16 2017 17:41 GMT
#599
After several years of very poor defense Kyrie Irving is suddenly playing solid defense.
One theory is: Irving is putting forth a lot more effort and Brad Stevens is creating better situations for him to succeed.

https://nbamath.com/the-key-to-kyrie-irvings-defensive-rise-with-the-boston-celtics-effort-effort-and-more-effort/

Looks like a change of scenery served Irving well.
On November 17 2017 00:54 Nemireck wrote:
Half of me was tempted to lmgtfy.com your lazy ass, but here you go:

thx
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
November 16 2017 22:06 GMT
#600
--- Nuked ---
Prev 1 28 29 30 31 32 143 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 5h 8m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 225
ProTech144
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 1855
GuemChi 985
Mind 82
Sacsri 38
Bale 24
Leta 24
ajuk12(nOOB) 19
soO 19
ZergMaN 18
Mong 11
[ Show more ]
sOs 11
Yoon 9
Icarus 8
Noble 8
NotJumperer 6
Stork 5
Force[name] 4
League of Legends
JimRising 682
Other Games
summit1g9048
C9.Mang0219
Sick135
Happy124
NeuroSwarm70
ViBE55
Mew2King53
[ Show 10 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2186
League of Legends
• Rush1535
Upcoming Events
Ultimate Battle
5h 8m
OSC
7h 8m
OSC
16h 38m
ByuN vs MaxPax
herO vs Krystianer
Percival vs Shameless
LetaleX vs YoungYakov
Nicoract vs Gerald
GgMaChine vs ArT
CranKy Ducklings
1d 3h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 5h
ByuN vs SHIN
MaxPax vs Solar
Clem vs TBD
herO vs TBD
Lambo vs TBD
Rogue vs TBD
IPSL
1d 10h
TerrOr vs IJ_Terran
rasowy vs Hazorath
BSL
1d 13h
TerrOr vs OyAji
UltrA vs Gosudark
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
IPSL
2 days
Art_Of_Turtle vs KameZerg
Radley vs George
[ Show More ]
BSL
2 days
Artosis vs Dewalt
Ret vs Tech
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
GSL
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-11-12
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
Individual League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
Calamity Cup Div. A Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026

Upcoming

YSL S4
Sector 591
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
StarCraft2 Weekly Open Tournament 2026 Grand Finals
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Underdog Cup 2026 Div 2-3
PGL Bucharest 2027
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.