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11589 Posts
$23k/year (around $2k/month) to save you rent, utilities, some food costs, and travel costs is actually not a bad deal for California from what I understand about cost of living there. Yes, you'll be living in a team house but that is the trade-off.
$32k/year for salary to do this job isn't amazingly high, though I do think the minimum wage discussion is fairly silly given that this isn't an hourly job where you clock in and out. It's also over the minimum salary requirement I've found here of $455/week by $160 ($615/week for 52 weeks).
Even looking at it from an hourly perspective, starting with the minimum hourly wage of $9/hr in California we get these numbers.
$9/hr @ 40 hrs/week is ~19k/year
9 @ 50 is 23400.
To get to $32000/year, one would have to work 68+ hours per week for the entire year.
In hourly terms, $32000 per year is $15/hr at 40hrs/week, or $12/hr at 50 hrs/week, both well above minimum wage. All of this also supposes you're actually working 52 full weeks per year, which you aren't.
tl;dr stop bitching about the pay of a fucking analyst for a video game
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On September 15 2015 08:10 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2015 08:09 Ketara wrote:
Or 4. This is all TL can afford to pay them and they're hoping people who want esports dame and are qualified will apply.
That's probably a small list of people. By doing so they also get a lot of negative press from it, since everyone with eyes can see that the requirement is unrealistic.
Yes, but as Gahlo pointed out, anyone with experience job hunting will know that this is (for the most part) par for the course rather than exceptionally bad.
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On September 15 2015 08:23 yamato77 wrote:$23k/year (around $2k/month) to save you rent, utilities, some food costs, and travel costs is actually not a bad deal for California from what I understand about cost of living there. Yes, you'll be living in a team house but that is the trade-off. $32k/year for salary to do this job isn't amazingly high, though I do think the minimum wage discussion is fairly silly given that this isn't an hourly job where you clock in and out. It's also over the minimum salary requirement I've found here of $455/week by $160 ($615/week for 52 weeks). Even looking at it from an hourly perspective, starting with the minimum hourly wage of $9/hr in California we get these numbers. $9/hr @ 40 hrs/week is ~19k/year 9 @ 50 is 23400. To get to $32000/year, one would have to work 68+ hours per week for the entire year. In hourly terms, $32000 per year is $15/hr at 40hrs/week, or $12/hr at 50 hrs/week, both well above minimum wage. All of this also supposes you're actually working 52 full weeks per year, which you aren't. tl;dr stop bitching about the pay of a fucking analyst for a video game
It's not about an analyst job, coach in vidja games is more aching to management than actually coaching. I still can't believe they will work more than 50 hours a week on average.
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On September 15 2015 08:23 TheHumanSensation wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2015 08:10 Sufficiency wrote:On September 15 2015 08:09 Ketara wrote:
Or 4. This is all TL can afford to pay them and they're hoping people who want esports dame and are qualified will apply.
That's probably a small list of people. By doing so they also get a lot of negative press from it, since everyone with eyes can see that the requirement is unrealistic. Yes, but as Gahlo pointed out, anyone with experience job hunting will know that this is (for the most part) par for the course rather than exceptionally bad.
I actually disagree with this notion. Anyone with at least some experience with hiring knows that you WILL get overqualified applicants. Whether or not they are worth your time is debatable (since many are just using these potential job opportunities as leverage against their current employers), but the job market is large and there are tons of (for example) potential system administrators out there that do have 5 years of experience; it's not as far-stretched as some people think.
It is bad when you list unreasonable qualifications *AND* bad compensation. Like I said, if they only plan to pay 32k, why bother publishing that at all? Just list the benefits and ignore the salary part.
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11589 Posts
On September 15 2015 07:57 Ketara wrote:Well I'm trying to be fair here  . I've lived in LA before. Housing and food does not cost 23k a year there. Either way the pay seems pretty crap for what is a tremendous list of requirements and duties.
I think you're wrong about housing and food not being expensive in LA
https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/los-angeles
Now, I looked on apartmentguide.com for cheaper housing, and the CHEAPEST 1 bedroom apartment listed was a trailer park for $725/month (8700/year in JUST RENT). Need I really investigate further to prove you wrong? I don't think so.
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On September 15 2015 08:29 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2015 07:57 Ketara wrote:Well I'm trying to be fair here . I've lived in LA before. Housing and food does not cost 23k a year there. Either way the pay seems pretty crap for what is a tremendous list of requirements and duties. I think you're wrong about housing and food not being expensive in LA https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/los-angelesNow, I looked on apartmentguide.com for cheaper housing, and the CHEAPEST 1 bedroom apartment listed was a trailer park for $725/month (8700/year in JUST RENT). Need I really investigate further to prove you wrong? I don't think so.
Remember you will be living with a whole bunch of people in the same house which also happens to be your workplace. It's likely that you need to share the kitchen, bathroom, etc.
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11589 Posts
On September 15 2015 08:31 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2015 08:29 yamato77 wrote:On September 15 2015 07:57 Ketara wrote:Well I'm trying to be fair here . I've lived in LA before. Housing and food does not cost 23k a year there. Either way the pay seems pretty crap for what is a tremendous list of requirements and duties. I think you're wrong about housing and food not being expensive in LA https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/los-angelesNow, I looked on apartmentguide.com for cheaper housing, and the CHEAPEST 1 bedroom apartment listed was a trailer park for $725/month (8700/year in JUST RENT). Need I really investigate further to prove you wrong? I don't think so. Remember you will be living with a whole bunch of people in the same house which also happens to be your workplace. It's likely that you need to share the kitchen, bathroom, etc.
I did already state that this is a trade-off not dissimilar to having roommates.
If you're arguing that such a living condition isn't worth the $23k/year in salary you lose, then that is an evaluative argument. In simple numbers, the housing provided saves you a lot of money versus the alternative of living alone, paying for utilities and food, the costs of travel to and from the team house every day you work there, and potentially even the costs of travel to and from LCS on the weekends.
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8700 is not 23,000. Food and transportation costs and such for a year does not cost 14,000$
I didn't say it was cheap, I said you can live in Santa Monica for less than 23k a year. It is more than possible.
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On September 15 2015 08:28 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2015 08:23 TheHumanSensation wrote:On September 15 2015 08:10 Sufficiency wrote:On September 15 2015 08:09 Ketara wrote:
Or 4. This is all TL can afford to pay them and they're hoping people who want esports dame and are qualified will apply.
That's probably a small list of people. By doing so they also get a lot of negative press from it, since everyone with eyes can see that the requirement is unrealistic. Yes, but as Gahlo pointed out, anyone with experience job hunting will know that this is (for the most part) par for the course rather than exceptionally bad. I actually disagree with this notion. Anyone with at least some experience with hiring knows that you WILL get overqualified applicants. Whether or not they are worth your time is debatable (since many are just using these potential job opportunities as leverage against their current employers), but the job market is large and there are tons of (for example) potential system administrators out there that do have 5 years of experience; it's not as far-stretched as some people think. It is bad when you list unreasonable qualifications *AND* bad compensation. Like I said, if they only plan to pay 32k, why bother publishing that at all? Just list the benefits and ignore the salary part.
Er, I think there's been a miscommunication here. Yes, there are certainly overqualified applicants! However, their existence doesn't detract from the number of job postings that offer entry-level pay but with non-entry-level requirements, of which this is one. I agree that it's bad and a problem, but I also think it's normal enough (note that normal doesn't mean good or even acceptable in many cases) that it's not a PR disaster.
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I actually think it's a good PR move that they're actually posting a position and not just hiring some players nohomo boyfriend.
It's a sign that we are moving in the right direction. Job posting doesn't even require that you be a LoL player.
All they have to do now is start paying their analysts and it'll be like a real organization for grown ups!
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11589 Posts
On September 15 2015 08:33 Ketara wrote:
8700 is not 23,000. Food and transportation costs and such for a year does not cost 14,000$
I didn't say it was cheap, I said you can live in Santa Monica for less than 23k a year. It is more than possible.
That is the absolute cheapest I found and it is a trailer park. It also does not include utilities which can add ~50% to just living costs for electricity, water/sanitation, and not to mention internet.
You guys are blowing this whole thing waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out of proportion.
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Hm, my cooling system might be going on my PC, or my poor old 7770 is finally getting to the end of its usefulness lol.
Oh well, I'll have a new GPU by wednesday, so its whatever.
And doubled my RAM, sweet, sweet 16gb of ram deliciousness....
Having to push all my settings down in FF14 finally pushed me over the edge, I had them set to high, but then I got into a special FATE and got like 8FPS because it was one of those super rare ones where everyone and their brother shows up so you end up with 60+ people, and people still die.
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Still a way better conversation than whatever that woman's name was.
You guys can be toxic in my stream later if you want tho
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It was entertaining how noone batted an eye at the throwing up/diarrhea conversation too.
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The reality of the TL situation is that they either get a Korean to do it or some guy with the passion.
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On September 15 2015 08:39 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2015 08:33 Ketara wrote:
8700 is not 23,000. Food and transportation costs and such for a year does not cost 14,000$
I didn't say it was cheap, I said you can live in Santa Monica for less than 23k a year. It is more than possible. That is the absolute cheapest I found and it is a trailer park. It also does not include utilities which can add ~50% to just living costs for electricity, water/sanitation, and not to mention internet. You guys are blowing this whole thing waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out of proportion.
Okay let's assume that you're paying 14k a year for housing and related costs. Considering the house they're providing is shared and probably pretty big, that's not unreasonable.
You still have 9k a year left to spend on food. That is 750$ a month.
Do you spend 750$ a month on food? No.
I'd say, having actually lived in this part of LA before for several years, that living expenses if you're expecting roommates shouldn't run you more than 15-20k a year. I think putting 23k on the value of the benefits is totally reasonable, especially considering that I'd bet its a rather nice house even if there's 6+ people living in it.
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11589 Posts
On September 15 2015 08:55 Ketara wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2015 08:39 yamato77 wrote:On September 15 2015 08:33 Ketara wrote:
8700 is not 23,000. Food and transportation costs and such for a year does not cost 14,000$
I didn't say it was cheap, I said you can live in Santa Monica for less than 23k a year. It is more than possible. That is the absolute cheapest I found and it is a trailer park. It also does not include utilities which can add ~50% to just living costs for electricity, water/sanitation, and not to mention internet. You guys are blowing this whole thing waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out of proportion. Okay let's assume that you're paying 14k a year for housing and related costs. Considering the house they're providing is shared and probably pretty big, that's not unreasonable. You still have 9k a year left to spend on food. That is 750$ a month. Do you spend 750$ a month on food? No. I'd say, having actually lived in this part of LA before for several years, that living expenses if you're expecting roommates shouldn't run you more than 15-20k a year. I think putting 23k on the value of the benefits is totally reasonable, especially considering that I'd bet its a rather nice house even if there's 6+ people living in it.
Then what are you arguing with me about?
Oh, your original statement was that it does not cost $23k/year exactly. My mistake.
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On September 15 2015 08:50 Alaric wrote:
It was entertaining how noone batted an eye at the throwing up/diarrhea conversation too.
I had a lot of insight and information to add to that topic as well but sadly I was out most of the day.
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You said that I was wrong when I said that 23k was a reasonable figure to put on the cost of the housing.
I am arguing that.
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11589 Posts
On September 15 2015 09:01 Ketara wrote:
You said that I was wrong when I said that 23k was a reasonable figure to put on the cost of the housing.
I am arguing that.
I did not say you were wrong that it was reasonable, I literally said it seemed fine in my own post on the matter.
Your original post comes off like $23k is too big a figure. If I misunderstood, it's my mistake.
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EPT
