The LiquidLegends Lounge - Page 1809

I feel you too stuck on this being a military. Look at it from a perspective of someone within the rebel forces.
You down to about 500 people maybe even less. All your leadership has been removed. All you left with is one rear admiral, a bunch of admin staff and a few key ground commanders. Poe being one of them. So I agree Poe challenging her straight away before she has a chance to talk was bad, however that was at the start of the movie.
There were countless times people could have been informed of the plan. Even when she tells everyone to board the transports why are they not informed about the plan? The mutiny is allowed to happen because his other pilots don't know anything while they are told to board. Why? How does that make any sense?

Maybe this is just an issue of not coming from a country where strict military discipline is a big deal. From a purely leadership perspective it fails in almost every metric. Essentially saying that she got upset over his lack of discipline so she compromised everything in spit of the rest of the pilots/forces. That Leia scene was so awful lol.

The major problem with the subplots is that they didn't really have tangible consequences. So they fail countless times throughout the movie yet still manage to accomplish defeating a lot of the baddies, surviving everything and going to rebuild now. The only losses for our characters are people we don't even know or see. Luke is the only true loss of a character in the whole movie and that was played off more as him finding balance at last. You can say that Poe/Finn actions killed hundreds of rebels but what kind of impact to nameless,faceless rebels have for us? The characters barely acknowledged this emotionally at all either. While you say the subplots lead to character development, maybe the reason they feel pointless is because I didn't feel like these characters really developed. I know the plot told me they did but that isn't quite the same as feeling a development. It's weird, I struggle to explain it. I've watched plenty of character focused stories like Mad men but this didn't feel quite the same. Maybe it was the lack of tangible consequences that ultimately failed. They wanted to keep the message of hope so badly that they were too afraid to really impact the characters.

The biggest problem I had with Rey is one that I started talking about at the end before. She has no tangible consequences for any of her actions. Contrast that to what happened to Luke in ep 5. He lost basically all his friends, he lost his hand and lost what hubris/naivety he had with the vader reveal. His character development that corresponded with the failings had tangible consequences that the audience and the character could feel.

Rey seemingly didn't really have anything tangible. Her failure was believing she was special, she could defeat the dark lord by turning his apprentice and save everyone(She didn't know about the chase so this wasn't a goal. So she fails to do that. Kylo saves her and refuses her side. Thus she fails and learns her lesson. That's about it? Her hubris ultimately didn't have any negative impact. If she didn't go the rebels would be in the exact same situation.
In fact if she didn't go they'd be worse off since Kylo wouldn't be alone to freak out at Lukes illusion. So in fact she didn't completely fail, it was a small victory that ultimately landed up saving them.

At the end of the day I can't shake this impression that Leia and Finn should have suffered worse fates that ended with Poe/Rey rallying a message of hope in their honour. It would have given the movie the emotional weight for the failures it was trying to do.

Poe/Finns plan was basically fine. It had no real risk associated with it outside of Finn/Rose lives. The codebreaker serves as a way for the plot to say "no look at how bad the consequences are of their failure". Yet it doesn't make sense. How did the codebreaker know about information none of the characters he interacts with knows. He spends no time on the rebel ship to know anything. The Rebel ship isn't even telling it's own pilots of the plan so there's no real information leak. They jump straight from lightspeed into the enemy ship. Then after he's captured he tells the enemy the plan? How? It felt like a massive asspull just to say the good guys messed up.
Once Finn/Rose were executing the plan it doesn't make any sense to try stop it from a strategy pov. Holde could have just kept stocking up the transports while giving a little time for Finn to try his plan since it had no risk.

Instead the script writer pulls this thing from out of left field. That just felt so wrong. Unless I missed something huge surrounding how he got this information. Essentially if the codebreaker knew the plan, Poe should have known the plan. If Poe knew the plan he wouldn't have pulled a mutiny since he shows he knows it's a good plan.

Otherwise liked what they attempted to do with him. It was just again a bit clumsy and clunky. The whole casino planet unfortunately was just very messy.

How the fuck did Rose turn around and abort the plan while Finn continued on AND THEN SHE CAUGHT UP?? All the while the ATs were doing shit all.

Don't even get me started on that Leia bs

the whole point, I thought, was that they were forced to the ground which inadvertently gave them cover against the explosion while the rest of the stormtroopers were blown away

I don't see how that makes sense, especially given Phasma's shadowy reveal that *gasp* she too survived and is now walking evilly through a smokescreen

Don't forget she goes from being right next to both of them to being quite a distance away. That whole character is such a mess. We meant to believe she's this badass commander after what she did in the previous movie? How does she still have command after she sabotaged everything. I wish for once these movies would show the "evil" guys being semi competent.