EPTOn November 15 2016 23:36 Fildun wrote:
You know what happens when your kid doesn't get that. He ends up like Scip.
You know what happens when your kid doesn't get that. He ends up like Scip.
Hi
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
I missed trick or treating with my son 2 weeks ago and it made me miserable, so much so that my wife basically let him stay up way later than he was supposed to just so I could do 2-3 more houses with him when I finally did get home. I work Saturdays as well so that's almost an entire day I miss with him as well. I think it all boils down to priorities. I think is perfectly acceptable to work more often/see your children less if it means you can provide for them better and you will be satisfied doing so, and it doesn't have an overall detrimental effect on your mental health/family life. For me personally, it would and so I've turned down more lucrative options to have more time with family. I don't know where I'm going with this really. | ||
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Eppa!
Sweden4641 Posts
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On November 16 2016 07:38 WaveofShadow wrote: Again this seems like something I kind of want to comment on but I don't have a lot to say. I missed trick or treating with my son 2 weeks ago and it made me miserable, so much so that my wife basically let him stay up way later than he was supposed to just so I could do 2-3 more houses with him when I finally did get home. I work Saturdays as well so that's almost an entire day I miss with him as well. I think it all boils down to priorities. I think is perfectly acceptable to work more often/see your children less if it means you can provide for them better and you will be satisfied doing so, and it doesn't have an overall detrimental effect on your mental health/family life. For me personally, it would and so I've turned down more lucrative options to have more time with family. I don't know where I'm going with this really. As a person teaching in an expensive private school for Asians, I have seen firsthand, repeatedly, what helicopter parenting does to kids, as well as what neglectful parenting does to kids (somehow these Chinese parents can manage to do both at the same time it is fucking amazing), and not really knowing what you guys are talking about I just want to say that I hope our TL dads are good dads because the bad parenting here makes me upset. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On November 16 2016 20:28 Ketara wrote: As a person teaching in an expensive private school for Asians, I have seen firsthand, repeatedly, what helicopter parenting does to kids, as well as what neglectful parenting does to kids (somehow these Chinese parents can manage to do both at the same time it is fucking amazing), and not really knowing what you guys are talking about I just want to say that I hope our TL dads are good dads because the bad parenting here makes me upset. Helicopter parenting appears to me the same as neglectful parenting. They both come from the same place, selfishness. Helicopter parents don't see the child as a unique person but instead an extension of themselves. Neglectful parents just don't really bother with the child and instead put themselves first. At the end of the day they are very similar. It makes sense that a helicopter parent can be neglectful too if you look at it that way. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On November 16 2016 22:42 Requizen wrote: Dat feel when your army gets a box set with 12 dollars worth of models for $140. 2016 Games Workshop is fucking amazing. I don't see the impressiveness. | ||
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mordek
United States12705 Posts
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On November 16 2016 22:42 Requizen wrote: Dat feel when your army gets a box set with $345 worth of models for $140. 2016 Games Workshop is fucking amazing. How much did it cost to manufacture that box set? $20 each including concept art, 3d modeling, and overhead? I'm not seeing the sale my friend. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On November 16 2016 23:13 iCanada wrote: How much did it cost to manufacture that box set? $20 each including concept art, 3d modeling, and overhead? I'm not seeing the sale my friend. I'll be the first to admit that the stuff is overpriced but if you think that $20 is at all a reasonable estimate then I have to laugh. Injection molding high quality plastic (and make no mistake, the citadel plastic is actually one of if not the best on the market) is not a cheap process. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On November 16 2016 23:28 Requizen wrote: I'll be the first to admit that the stuff is overpriced but if you think that $20 is at all a reasonable estimate then I have to laugh. Injection molding high quality plastic (and make no mistake, the citadel plastic is actually one of if not the best on the market) is not a cheap process. injection molding is something that is based on scale. If they produce 1 Space marine figure it'll cost them ~12000 for a single mold. if they produce 12 it'll cost them about 60,000 for a 12-piece mold, if they produce 12000 it'll cost them probably 300,000 with 5 12 piece molds making 6000 a day. the plastic cost is negligible. it's between 2 and 6 cents per pound depending on the quality of molding resin. if games workshop makes 6 million space marine figures, they'll probably need 20 12 piece molds, which would be about 1.2 million if made individually. but with bulk purchases a 20% discount is pretty common across industries. so 960,000 dollars in molds, if each space marine is a pound, thats .45*6M,. so total cost for 6 million space marines just based on market value and industry standards (so assuming they produce their own molds, for significantly cheaper) 6 Million space marines would cost ~ 61 cents per unit to manufacture on their own in product and molding. if you want to add wages, assuming 100 employees for a high end estimate paid at 60k annually on average, producing 100 moldings per day at 240 units per molding is 24000 a day, 250 days to produce the 6 million, so ~ 68.5% of their annual time, that's another 4,110,000 to total cost add another dollar per unit for art and cardboard and shipping for 10,110,000 total cost. Each space marine should cost ~ $2.08 to produce and get to games workshops. not including the cost of the manufactury or land because i assume by now it's been paid for. Price'll get marked up some per unit from taxes as well. as well as warehouse storage. Actual cost to be anywhere from -50% if they in house the molds/ automate the manufacturing to 300% if they are using a non market plastic and overbuying molds for faster runs. (which they probably are given the variety of shapes they offer) | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
Edit: Again, I know everything is marked up and overpriced, but I can pull any amount of numbers from thin air too. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On November 16 2016 23:50 Requizen wrote: And you got these numbers from? Plastics futures released commodity pricing for the plastic. specific company's plastics are not listed, just contract pricing for the industry. highest i could find was .06. Molding costs, from rexplastics.com based on their family mold cost of 60k 20% is standard from food to metal for bulk purchasing. and normally you can get a little more if you have annually renewed contracts, This is from personal work experience. but whatever. I assumed a high end of costs for wages. average union workers (public knowledge) in the UK earn 986 a week which is about 51K annually. i assumed a bump up from seniority and managerial positions. Though i could be lowballing this. Obviously marketing is going to mark up the cost of the space marines quite a bit. so games workshop might only spend ~2 dollars a unit to produce them, but they probably spend about 5-10 dollars per unit to store and sell them. EDIT. i found a cost for a specific plastic used in resin models, it's significantly more expensive at 45 cents per pound. Will update the estimate. No idea how many individual models are in your box set. but it looks like you should expect ~ a 4-5x markup in cost | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On November 16 2016 23:56 PrinceXizor wrote: Plastics futures released commodity pricing for the plastic. specific company's plastics are not listed, just contract pricing for the industry. highest i could find was .06. Molding costs, from rexplastics.com based on their family mold cost of 60k 20% is standard from food to metal for bulk purchasing. and normally you can get a little more if you have annually renewed contracts, This is from personal work experience. but whatever. I assumed a high end of costs for wages. average union workers (public knowledge) in the UK earn 986 a week which is about 51K annually. i assumed a bump up from seniority and managerial positions. Though i could be lowballing this. Obviously marketing is going to mark up the cost of the space marines quite a bit. so games workshop might only spend ~2 dollars a unit to produce them, but they probably spend about 5-10 dollars per unit to store and sell them. Reasonable stats. However, that's not taking into account everything else the models pay for. As noted in this (dated, yet still relevant) article, GW also runs their own shops (which they probably don't need to but is part of the cost regardless), and employ people to do things not directly related with making models. 100 employees in your estimate is probably correct when it comes to product design and manufacturing, but doesn't take into account store owners (who also take a portion of the profits), business employee, marketers, real estate, etc. Your numbers also make the assumption that there is 6 million models made off of the same mold, which I would put at a pretty high estimate. Also consider most boxes are 2-5 sprues and there is very little sprue-sharing (though it's becoming more common now), it's not just a single mold for one space marine with no variability (in fact, customization is one of the high selling points of GW models compared to other companies. 6 million in my mind is way too high for any one box. Maybe half of that for a ubiquitous box like the Space Marine Tactical Squad, but they have hundreds of unique kits with multiple sprues and are adding more on a regular basis. On November 16 2016 23:56 PrinceXizor wrote:EDIT. i found a cost for a specific plastic used in resin models, it's significantly more expensive at 45 cents per pound. Will update the estimate. No idea how many individual models are in your box set. but it looks like you should expect ~ a 4-5x markup in cost GW models are not resin. They did resin for a while, it was called Finecast and it was absolute shit. Forgeworld uses Resin, but the standard GW box is plastic. Model count is basically irrelevant. The Celestant Prime is a foot tall and nearly half as wide, while a Liberator is the size of a space marine. The Knight Azyros is twice as tall because he has these huge fucking wings. The amount of plastic varies wildly from kit to kit, and specialized molds for more detailed models will cost more than the ones that chuck out 15 guardsmen boxes. I know I'm sounding a bit like a GW shill. Like I said, I know that they're marked up and higher than they could be, but this idea that a box of high quality models only costs pennies (or whatever they use in the UK) to make is a joke. Not to mention that the quality of detail on the models is better than any other wargaming company on the market outside of some historicals, and sometimes I feel ok paying for higher quality. | ||
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Fildun
Netherlands4124 Posts
Hey there | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Now to find a proper karaoke of that... | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
You could have a farm of 150 molds running with one or two operators that switches tools as per a preset command. If GW doesn't have fancy ass rapid tooling and things like that then I'd say they are living in the past for a company of their size. I don't personally work in the plastics industry but I have a few real good buddies / colleagues that do. That's not to say it's a waste of money, if you get the entertainment from it awesome. Ive always thought it would be a fun hobby I just never made time or had enough friends interested. I just think being grateful for that price structure is low key Stockholm syndrome. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On November 17 2016 00:19 Requizen wrote: Your numbers also make the assumption that there is 6 million models made off of the same mold, which I would put at a pretty high estimate. Also consider most boxes are 2-5 sprues and there is very little sprue-sharing (though it's becoming more common now), it's not just a single mold for one space marine with no variability (in fact, customization is one of the high selling points of GW models compared to other companies. 6 million in my mind is way too high for any one box. Maybe half of that for a ubiquitous box like the Space Marine Tactical Squad, but they have hundreds of unique kits with multiple sprues and are adding more on a regular basis. . Size of mold matters a lot more than the machining of it for cost. so a 12 model Mold could have 4 Marines with guns in air 4 marines pointed at front 4 marines kneeling in dirt and be roughly the same cost Mold refers to the actual physical thing being injected into, rather than a specific shape. so you could have multiple different shapes in the same mold (the example the mold website used was Xbox controller halves and parts all together). i'm not suggesting it's like dirty cheap. Just that production itself is probably only a couple dollars a unit for most things, and more for the big guys. but the cost absolutely reflects that. Most of the money spent on the units is in marketing and storing them, rather than in production. It's much more cost efficient to include runs of the same product that has variations all in one mold, rather than buying individual molds for each variation. why spend money on 3 12 piece molds for 3 different variations when you can just run 1 12 piece mold 3x longer and spend more in electricity/wages, which are much cheaper. | ||
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