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Frudgey
Canada3367 Posts
On March 12 2015 05:41 Scip wrote: You guys are so casual it's making me sick I mean wouldn't they get some credit for being tryhards at being casual? I would also argue that they are tryhards at having fun. | ||
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Cixah
United States11285 Posts
On March 12 2015 06:35 Frudgey wrote: I mean wouldn't they get some credit for being tryhards at being casual? I would also argue that they are tryhards at having fun. Oooooooooh I'm telling mom! You said the f-word. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On March 12 2015 06:20 red_ wrote: That's probably a bit of hyperbole in the other direction(especially with the in-vogue status of mid Lina and Eul's SF and Phase-MoM Jugg and such). I feel like the games are fairly equal when it all comes down to it. Both have heroes/champs that feel like they take forever to kill(and are absolute 'nope' targets if you're reliant on front-end burst), and both have burst champs that wipe anyone under certain hp values off the map with no recourse. Yea it's possible I'm just worse at League than Dota so I encounter getting deleted more in League than dota. I do feel there's some merit in it though when looking at carries in league. An ADC duel tends to last a handful of hits in late game situations. Crit is just too powerful a stat in that game I think. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On March 12 2015 06:18 Numy wrote: Hmm that's roughly right I think. There are obviously ways to avoid damage that scrublords don't know about like ghost scepter and force staff that makes the squishies really hard to kill with good positioning. Also stuff like just tping out in the middle of 4 people can't be done in LoL. I'm pretty most of the inevitability has to do with turn radius being a thing in Dota. | ||
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red_
United States8474 Posts
On March 12 2015 06:45 Numy wrote: Yea it's possible I'm just worse at League than Dota so I encounter getting deleted more in League than dota. I do feel there's some merit in it though when looking at carries in league. An ADC duel tends to last a handful of hits in late game situations. Crit is just too powerful a stat in that game I think. You can't just look at late game ADC duels though, it's faulty in so many ways. Focusing in on just that completely ignores things like SF, Lina, TA, Shotgun Morph, Dagon carriers(Puck, Nyx would be the big ones in this specific discussion), etc etc this list would be long as fuck. Now League also has a ton of burst mages fueled with AP scaling and it has its AD itemization scaling, so people do die fast at a lot of points in the game there as well, thus why I said I think it's actually about equal when thought of on an individual character basis. I will say that Dota feels like it has way more 'over before they began' teamfight scenarios though.* *Clarifying this point: I mean like, teamfight setups regarding skills/positioning that a spectator just knows is about to be over incredibly quickly, not a spectator knowing a teamfight will go bad because one team is ahead on items and levels. Think like, "oh Naga just Songed and they are so clumped up for this Black Hole." League has some wombo combos, but they don't 5 man wipe anywhere near as fast(even from way behind) as some of the crazy burst combos in League. High ground defense scenarios are the big culprit here. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On March 12 2015 07:03 red_ wrote: You can't just look at late game ADC duels though, it's faulty in so many ways. Focusing in on just that completely ignores things like SF, Lina, TA, Shotgun Morph, Dagon carriers(Puck, Nyx would be the big ones in this specific discussion), etc etc this list would be long as fuck. Now League also has a ton of burst mages fueled with AP scaling and it has its AD itemization scaling, so people do die fast at a lot of points in the game there as well, thus why I said I think it's actually about equal when thought of on an individual character basis. I will say that Dota feels like it has way more 'over before they began' teamfight scenarios though. Well I don't think it's faulty no. Late game ADC is something that will happen in 95% of league games that get to that point. Things like Shotgun morph, mid lina etc don't happen in every game. There are obviously there are going to be example of each case when you look enough. Looking at an individual character basis feels a bit flawed compared to looking at the game as a whole no? I don't agree with your edited point either as there are far too many repositioning items/skills in dota. Late game team fights between two skilled teams can be very messy and drawn out. I remember watching DAC games with Dusa where teamfights took over a minute to resolve and during the whole time you didn't know what was going to happen. As I said there are obviously going to be individual cases that are cut and dry but as a whole I don't feel like that's the case. The only real metric I know to look at is late game carries vs carries and in League I feel they super squishy yet deal insane damage compared to Dota. What tends to happen in league now is one team manages to get to the backline of the other to explode them then they win that fight but take a little time clearing up the tank. The other possibility is both back lines get blown up so all the teams damage is gone so it's just this wet noodle fight. This discounts the situations where both teams just sit around starring at eachother for 5 minutes without doing anything. | ||
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Fildun
Netherlands4124 Posts
Guess I'm not born to be a casual. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
I have nothing against it being "casual", but I don't have the motivation necessary to get over the entry barrier to actually playing the game. | ||
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red_
United States8474 Posts
On March 12 2015 07:13 Numy wrote: Well I don't think it's faulty no. Late game ADC is something that will happen in 95% of league games that get to that point. Things like Shotgun morph, mid lina etc don't happen in every game. There are obviously there are going to be example of each case when you look enough. Looking at an individual character basis feels a bit flawed compared to looking at the game as a whole no? I don't agree with your edited point either as there are far too many repositioning items/skills in dota. Late game team fights between two skilled teams can be very messy and drawn out. I remember watching DAC games with Dusa where teamfights took over a minute to resolve and during the whole time you didn't know what was going to happen. As I said there are obviously going to be individual cases that are cut and dry but as a whole I don't feel like that's the case. The only real metric I know to look at is late game carries vs carries and in League I feel they super squishy yet deal insane damage compared to Dota. Some teamfights at DAC taking a long time to resolve, and my list being extremely truncated, does not what I've mentioned uncommon to the game. AP Mages, Zed(and RIP Talon and Kha), and near end game ADC's are essentially all of League's burst(and it's worth note, I'm not saying League is playing with kid gloves), but DotA has far far far higher damage going out from basically everyone in the early to mid game, and end game everyone except those possessing multiple defensive items will die the moment a 'carry' actually attaches onto them. Taking the games as a whole, I still believe that they're pretty much equal on the 'woah I died fast' scale, with DotA maybe coming out slightly ahead for me because of the ridiculous teamfight ults that exist in it. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On March 12 2015 07:24 TheYango wrote: I'd probably play Heroes if it were a series of War3 custom maps so I didn't have to install anything new or spend hours unlocking shit to play everything. I have nothing against it being "casual", but I don't have the motivation necessary to get over the entry barrier to actually playing the game. If it was f2p but with cosmetics as the model instead of what it went for I think it would be more popular. I know my brother was so excited by it but when I told him the pay model he's just completely ignored it since. Don't know why they did that to a game trying to cater to casual fanbase so hard. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
On March 12 2015 07:24 TheYango wrote: I'd probably play Heroes if it were a series of War3 custom maps so I didn't have to install anything new or spend hours unlocking shit to play everything. I have nothing against it being "casual", but I don't have the motivation necessary to get over the entry barrier to actually playing the game. I don't plan on playing enough to unlock everything, I'm just gonna play with friends. | ||
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Parnage
United States7414 Posts
On March 12 2015 07:44 Numy wrote: If it was f2p but with cosmetics as the model instead of what it went for I think it would be more popular. I know my brother was so excited by it but when I told him the pay model he's just completely ignored it since. Don't know why they did that to a game trying to cater to casual fanbase so hard. It'll make money because of the characters half of which are iconic to around 10 million people. People are buying a preorder to play in beta that's literally a bad deal by all accounts. It doesn't matter because a majority of people will grumble, maybe make a forum post then buy things anyway because "I really like that one character/skin" Note I mention nothing of the actual quality of Heroes itself. I do this because it doesn't matter how good or bad it is. It'll make it's money back and then some due to it's reliance on nostalgia and a payment model that's ethically dubious. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On March 12 2015 07:49 WaveofShadow wrote: I don't plan on playing enough to unlock everything, I'm just gonna play with friends. I mean sure, but it still bothers me when I can still only pick from whatever 10 free heroes there are. I don't know what makes Heroes special among every other "play with friends" game there is available right now to make it worth the time. Like, there are enough good free to play casual games you can play with friends now that "it's free and it's not shit" doesn't feel like it's good enough motivation to play a game with friends. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
It's not what I'd want to play with friends when there's a large level discrepancy, or between our respective expectations, and it's also worse than LoL's soloQ (can't really tell about DotA, since I'm level 8 or something still and more than half my games end with abandons) because of how boned you are when someone on your team screws up or does his own thing. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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crimethinking
Vietnam765 Posts
Riot has an underdeveloped League client but Volvo has Dota the epitome of feature creep in PC gaming. Not to mention, hats. | ||
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red_
United States8474 Posts
Like... why? | ||
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