On February 16 2015 05:47 wei2coolman wrote: I would like to read Csheep's thoughts on this conversation.
Me too.
On February 16 2015 05:47 PrinceXizor wrote: It depends on where you decide what their target was. Martin attempted to create an opposing work of fantasy to that of Tolkien, while Twilight was aimed at teens, one fell far short of the mark in terms of quality of writing, the other hit it around the bottom-middle of the average.
So what if my target is to write shit Twilight fanfiction? If it ends up good enough to be made into a movie, I must be god, right?
Yeah I'm not seeing how setting the bar lower excuses poorer writing.
On February 16 2015 04:08 Zdrastochye wrote: Speaking of props and gagging, the 50 Shades of Grey movie was terrible as expected.
My wife is seeing that today, we'll see what she thinks---despite enjoying the trash that the book represents she knows and just looks past how poorly written it is so I expect a fair review.
She laughed her way through Kingsmen last night apparently.
PX sure I can do a little of that, maybe an Isaac run or two, but mainly I also want to do a draft. Sucks too because I have work tomorrow even though it's a holiday, otherwise I'd stay up rl late.
Tempted to see Kingsmen, any gud? or so bad it's good?
I enjoyed it. The spy movie genre has been missing the tongue in cheek flicks that don't go full Austin Powers for a long time. Bonus points for US city people laughing at UK(maybe just british?) phrases like "You taking a piss?" and "went tits up." I also really liked SLJ, since I feel he had a lot of fun with his character.
It looks like a movie I'd really enjoy.
I think I'm seeing it tonight. Trailer looked real dumb but I guess it's dumb in a good way.
On February 16 2015 05:35 Numy wrote: Martin's not exactly a bastion of good writing but he still does a decent job at it while building his world. Meyer doesn't even achieve this while creating a terribly bland world. Also I don't really see how you can compare either of them to Ayn Rand. She's all about pushing her agenda and being more philosophical in nature. Not really about writing a story.
I'm comparing their skill at writing, not their works. all of them produce rather, bland and cringey writing while otherwise being able to compensate with their own individual talent.
I mean, there's a difference in scale you're ignoring.
Both Twilight and ASOIAF being poorly written doesn't mean that they are EQUALLY poorly written.
It depends on where you decide what their target was. Martin attempted to create an opposing work of fantasy to that of Tolkien, while Twilight was aimed at teens, one fell far short of the mark in terms of quality of writing, the other hit it around the bottom-middle of the average.
EDIT: all i'm trying to say is that the comparison of someone enjoying twilight despite its poor writing Isn't really different from liking ASOIAF despite it's poor writing. it doesn't matter if ASOIAF is 5% better or 10% better. they both aren't well written. period. the difference is theme, target audience, and style of the authors, and all of those things come down purely to taste anyway.
You realize that by this logic good and bad writing isn't determined by the writing quality but by the reception of said work? That seems like an awfully flawed way to look at it. I refuse to believe you actually think that instead of just trying really hard to push the devil's advocate approach to this discussion.
On February 16 2015 05:57 PrinceXizor wrote: Thats exactly how all art's worth is determined?
So essentially you're deeming the entire idea of intellectual critique of art as a useless field--where the assignment of intrinsic value to art that was poorly respected and unpopular during the artist's lifetime is a meaningless endeavor.
On February 16 2015 05:57 PrinceXizor wrote: Thats exactly how all art's worth is determined?
Well then Twilight isn't badly written, it's actually a masterpiece.
well no, we tend to let critics and scholars do that sort of judgement rather than based on best selling lists. The bible is not the best written book in the world.
On February 16 2015 05:12 WaveofShadow wrote: It IS bad fanfiction.
The Fifty Shades trilogy was developed from a Twilight fan fiction series originally titled Master of the Universe and published episodically on fan-fiction websites under the pen name "Snowqueen's Icedragon". The piece featured characters named after Stephenie Meyer's characters in Twilight, Edward Cullen and Bella Swan. After comments concerning the sexual nature of the material, James removed the story from the fan-fiction websites and published it on her own website, FiftyShades.com. Later she rewrote Master of the Universe as an original piece, with the principal characters renamed Christian Grey and Anastasia Steele and removed it from her website before publication.[10] Meyer commented on the series, saying "that's really not my genre, not my thing... Good on her—she's doing well. That's great!"
On February 16 2015 06:01 Eppa! wrote: Hey hey lets just complain about how all Star Wars movies are shit and are what twilight is to vampire genre; Star Wars is to the sifi genre.
I would argue Anne Rice's books are to the vampire genre as SW is to scifi, honestly.
The funny thing about those ones is The Vampire Chronicles are also heavily focused on sex (and romanticism) and I would argue they're extremely well written, and yet not anywhere near as popular.
On February 16 2015 06:01 Eppa! wrote: Hey hey lets just complain about how all Star Wars movies are shit and are what twilight is to vampire genre; Star Wars is to the sifi genre.
I would argue Anne Rice's books are to the vampire genre as SW is to scifi, honestly.
The funny thing about those ones is The Vampire Chronicles are also heavily focused on sex (and romanticism) and I would argue they're extremely well written, and yet not anywhere near as popular.
If there is a vampire novel. its about sex. whether its overt, or not. this includes Dracula.
Well sex and romanticism are core themes around vampires. It's all about power and beauty in power. Ann Rice is pretty good but I'd say she did help let the new age of shitty vampire stuff come about. So don't know if that's a negative point to her ;(
I mean, Star Wars was already quite a few steps removed from contemporary scifi, given it's much more derived from stuff like the Flash Gordon serials (which themselves originated in the comic strip format) than from any scifi literature.
EPT
50 shades is the equivalent of a undergrad workshop submission.
