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On November 20 2014 15:35 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
But even backing off from Tumblr crazy talk, is my thinking credible at all on the concept that the word feminism fails to actually promote gender equality, because men can receive discrimination too? It seems to me that whenever I say that, it somehow turns the conversation into a contest of which gender is more oppressed, when that question is actually irrelevant to the concept of gender equality? I've been expressing that thought to people lately and it has mostly been met with vehement refutation.
The way I see it is the feminism started in a time period where female discrimination was so bad that trying to tackle both sides of the issue was just too big a burden for the movement so they focused more on just trying to bring up women power. As time went on and the view of women in society changed then that approach became less ideal but instead of changing the movement it got hijacked by radicals that feel wronged by society/men personally.So feminism now should be more about equality than just female power but unfortunately it wasn't able to shift into this perspective due to these people. I fully expect some kind of split of the movement by the non-radical elements in the future to form something else unless it's already happened.
You aren't wrong about male discrimination, it's just that those radicals don't actually care about gender equality and are more focused on that they perceive as personal wrong doing. I've had discussions with my friends a few times about how what it means to be a man in society puts an unrealistic expectation on us men but there's sadly no real "movement" dealing with this issue. The treatment of stay at home fathers can be rather despicable.
edit: As an Engineering student it's a little sad at how we go about dealing with gender equality. A black female engineer is basically guaranteed not only her uni being paid but also a job afterwards without really trying to get these things, employers hunt them down as they are the holy grail of employment. It's all bandaid fixes at the end of the day. Having spoken to these people they don't even want that kind of treatment but there's nothing they can really do about it.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On November 20 2014 15:34 TheEmulator wrote:
old people are racist.
Yeah, what's up with that? At a family gathering my grandma says stuff that would be considered faux pas in my generation but nobody calls bullshit on her just because she is old
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On November 20 2014 19:03 Scip wrote:Yeah, what's up with that? At a family gathering my grandma says stuff that would be considered faux pas in my generation but nobody calls bullshit on her just because she is old
With old people they're often given a pass because of the excuse that they grew up in a time when it was acceptable. It's assumed that they're too far gone to take their head out of their ass.
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Or because your parents' generation doesn't mind it either.
I know my mother and uncles are growing more racist toward Arabs, Roms and eastern Europeans as time goes on, but I also know I won't give them shit about it because they won't change their opinions. It'd be wasting time, it wouldn't make for an enjoyable discussion in the meanwhile either, and as long as they aren't voting for the right-wing extremists I guess it doesn't impact anything other than family reunions being annoying whenever welfare payments and some such comes up.
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On November 20 2014 19:08 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2014 19:03 Scip wrote:On November 20 2014 15:34 TheEmulator wrote:
old people are racist. Yeah, what's up with that? At a family gathering my grandma says stuff that would be considered faux pas in my generation but nobody calls bullshit on her just because she is old With old people they're often given a pass because of the excuse that they grew up in a time when it was acceptable. It's assumed that they're too far gone to take their head out of their ass.
My issue with this is that there is a growing band of this generation in society and they tend to be the ones with a higher turnout for voting. So you get these old conservative people disconnected from current society determining your representatives of your government.
On November 20 2014 19:09 Alaric wrote:
Or because your parents' generation doesn't mind it either.
I know my mother and uncles are growing more racist toward Arabs, Roms and eastern Europeans as time goes on, but I also know I won't give them shit about it because they won't change their opinions. It'd be wasting time, it wouldn't make for an enjoyable discussion in the meanwhile either, and as long as they aren't voting for the right-wing extremists I guess it doesn't impact anything other than family reunions being annoying whenever welfare payments and some such comes up.
Hmm my mother is like that too specifically towards Arabs these days but I don't tolerate that shit and quickly cut her down whenever she speaks like that. My dad normally backs me up too. Dad has traveled too much and dealt with too many different kinds of people to be naive enough to think only one group has bad apples. My mother is pretty sheltered and grew up during apartheid, she didn't really have the same experiences of discrimination my father had(Turns out being a Dark Porra = Black to Afrikaans people)
I guess I just never want my kids to get influenced by such talk even though I don't have kids or a wife or a gf.. 
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Some foreigners come to France with their family, receive welfare payments, send it back home with the rest of their family, and at some point they go back home too then repeat the process. It's been mediatised, the same as people abusing welfare payments within the country in general, albeit the depicted people were more often of Arab or Romani descent than not (considering the fact that Romani people aren't mostly nomads as is commonly believed).
That's one of the main arguments I hear my mother use against Eastern Europeans and Romani people, as "parasites" who suck on the government's subsidies without any will to contribute (obviously the system is wrong anyway, my brother's doing temporary work while finding what he wants to do, he'd get around 1K € from unemployment benefits and around 1.4K € working 35 hours a week only because of cold/end-of-contract bonuses). It's not like there aren't any French/"white" people doing that too, but she seems to believe that most of them are foreigners, and that most foreigners in the country are like that (eg. weed out the foreigners, the issues would go down both in absolute and relative terms).
I'm not sure whether Arabs in France are closest to how African or Mexican people are perceived in the US. Obviously there's been the issue of religion recently, and the way political parties have been trying to use it as scapegoats, or smoke screens for their own scandals/unpopular policies (the whole veil mumbo-jumbo). But overall in cities like Marseille it's not only the cultural thing, it's also the social environment: if you replaced all the Arabs in the poor districts with white people established in France for 3+ generations, you'd still have trouble, you'd still have people cheating the system, you'd still have violence and youth dropping out of school and causing trouble.
Then again while we don't have Fox news ours are generally pretty right-winged too, especially the main one (TF1) and the biases are real. She doesn't have the time nor the interest to read up on things or educate herself on the matter and seems to believe the media too much, unless it comes from the government.
All in all she's a typical person I guess. We always seem surprised by this kind of stuff happening because in OT we're generally of higher education and with access to (and interested in) a bunch of alternative infos/sources, but when you consider a country as a whole that's just a small part of the population.
My grandfather was in the Algerian War, although he never said much about it, and he disliked Arabs from then (basically because they were the people he went up against: he mentioned once locals telling them they had no water while they were short on supply and thirsty, fully knowing that whenever the rebels would show up at the same house they'd receive assistance; or getting shot in their backs. I never really talked with him about it but from what little he's said he seems to have grown bitter about the whole thing, even if the doesn't seem to dwell on these memories), and my mother (his daughter) told me that while in Paris the molesting/lack of respect she was faced with in public transports only came from Arabs (lack of respect/inappropriate behaviour/molesting). She's pretty hung up on the way women are treated by Muslim practitioners obviously, and that's also a huge cultural point played up by the media.
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Oh man I'm having such a rush.
Finally got the grade for the most annoying course I've ever had (mostly due to bad teaching). Passed.
I'm probably gonna drink myself to oblivion tonight and following days.
Good night sweet TLLOLOTGD, I'll miss you for at least a couple days.
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Humanity hates outsiders. All culture and all groups. You have to earn trust to be accepted. Try walking down certain parts of DC or Chicago as a white man and tell me how far white privilege gets you. Or new York as a tourist. If they can identify you as an outsider you will be treated worse for it. Is to protect the group from long long ago. In modern society the side effect is minor aversion but when reinforced it becomes worse. People will never be accepting of everyone it goes against our nature. And it's a bad idea. We just need to reach out young that when judging threats you should not use skin color as the determining factor or nationality or anything like that. So trying to change they world as it is now and fix the next generation instead. Fighting instinct is something personal it can't be forced on another.
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my mother, grandmother, and greataunt (dunno if correct word) are all pretty racist
older women confirmed racist, empirically proven
feminism should just be mercy-killed at this point, they basically achieved everything substantial they needed to already, they just cling to the last couple minor issues because they fear that they, personally, would become irrelevant if they didn't.
I would be highly surprised if they got over themselves and switched to an actual egalitarian approach anytime soon.
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WoW is back up to 10 Million subscribers
Warlords too OP can't wait to get back and play some.
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My grandparents aren't/weren't racist at all. But then they lived in New England for at least forty years. Years ago I didn't like the idea of illegal immigrants taking the scholarship money or welfare of citizens (which was an issue awhile back) but nowadays I just wish we would give people more opportunity to enter the country legally. Waiting 12 years on a list to get into the US is completely insane, no wonder people just go for it.
The whole thing reminds me of the Irish. Back when they were immigrating here the people already here hated them too and mistreated them terribly. Some couldn't get decent work. And because they couldn't get decent work many of those turned to organized crime during prohibition. To a certain extent it just seems like the same old story, over and over.
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On November 20 2014 23:14 phyvo wrote:
My grandparents aren't/weren't racist at all. But then they lived in New England for at least forty years. Years ago I didn't like the idea of illegal immigrants taking the scholarship money or welfare of citizens (which was an issue awhile back) but nowadays I just wish we would give people more opportunity to enter the country legally. Waiting 12 years on a list to get into the US is completely insane, no wonder people just go for it.
The whole thing reminds me of the Irish. Back when they were immigrating here everyone hated them too mistreated them terribly. Some couldn't get decent work. And because they couldn't get decent work many of those turned to organized crime, which, of course, was helped along by prohibition. To a certain extent it just seems like the same old story, over and over.
I know Italians had it rough a while back as well. My grandpa was bullied a lot when he was little cuz he was off the boat, and as a result he didn't teach any of his kids Italian, which makes me sad, cuz I enjoy that language.
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On November 20 2014 23:14 phyvo wrote:
My grandparents aren't/weren't racist at all. But then they lived in New England for at least forty years. Years ago I didn't like the idea of illegal immigrants taking the scholarship money or welfare of citizens (which was an issue awhile back) but nowadays I just wish we would give people more opportunity to enter the country legally. Waiting 12 years on a list to get into the US is completely insane, no wonder people just go for it.
The whole thing reminds me of the Irish. Back when they were immigrating here the people already here hated them too and mistreated them terribly. Some couldn't get decent work. And because they couldn't get decent work many of those turned to organized crime during prohibition. To a certain extent it just seems like the same old story, over and over.
For a "melting pot" we're ridiculously choosy about what ingredients we let into the pot.
I mean, the Afghan and Iraqi translators who have been absolutely critical to keeping our soldiers alive overseas, and whose very lives are endangered by having done so, have to wade through a mountain of nigh-impossible paperwork and then wait years to get told "Nope, sucks to be you, sorry your dad was killed and your children were kidnapped while you were waiting".
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On November 20 2014 22:55 Requizen wrote:
WoW is back up to 10 Million subscribers
Warlords too OP can't wait to get back and play some.
1,5 million+ new subscribers sounds nice, but let's talk about this in January when they got 50% left.
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On November 20 2014 23:26 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2014 23:14 phyvo wrote:
My grandparents aren't/weren't racist at all. But then they lived in New England for at least forty years. Years ago I didn't like the idea of illegal immigrants taking the scholarship money or welfare of citizens (which was an issue awhile back) but nowadays I just wish we would give people more opportunity to enter the country legally. Waiting 12 years on a list to get into the US is completely insane, no wonder people just go for it.
The whole thing reminds me of the Irish. Back when they were immigrating here the people already here hated them too and mistreated them terribly. Some couldn't get decent work. And because they couldn't get decent work many of those turned to organized crime during prohibition. To a certain extent it just seems like the same old story, over and over. For a "melting pot" we're ridiculously choosy about what ingredients we let into the pot. I mean, the Afghan and Iraqi translators who have been absolutely critical to keeping our soldiers alive overseas, and whose very lives are endangered by having done so, have to wade through a mountain of nigh-impossible paperwork and then wait years to get told "Nope, sucks to be you, sorry your dad was killed and your children were kidnapped while you were waiting".
I, too, watch John Oliver regularly =P
edit - and I agree. Getting into this country is absurdly difficult. My brother in law is from Luxembourg, and he had to wait a ridiculous amount of time to get his marriage visa. And then once he did, they had 90 days to get married before the visa expired. So we were all just waiting around and then "OK WEDDING IS NOW"
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I too watched that and got me so mad. I'm not even American! Supposedly I don't even need a visa to go to the states though as I have a Portuguese passport/ID and I'm just a lazy bum that does nothing.
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On November 20 2014 23:28 Sponkz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2014 22:55 Requizen wrote:
WoW is back up to 10 Million subscribers
Warlords too OP can't wait to get back and play some. 1,5 million+ new subscribers sounds nice, but let's talk about this in January when they got 50% left.
Yeah basically, but new lifeblood is new lifeblood. I might stick around for a while, PvPing on my Hunter (or Pally, not sure yet).
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More like 2.6 million. On November 4th, the end of Q3 2014, Blizzard reported only 7.4 million subscribers for WoW (up from 6.8 million in Q2). It's only been a little over two weeks since then.
Compare to Cataclysm where there was no discernible change in subscriptions (followed by a the first major subscriptions drop in WoWs' history) or MoP where the change was less than a million.
Even if only half of the returning/new players stay this is a pretty big win for a game that looked solidly on the decline.
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Been playing more and more HS. Slightly addicting... But I need more cards....
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On November 20 2014 23:45 Seuss wrote:
More like 2.6 million. On November 4th, the end of Q3 2014, Blizzard reported only 7.4 million subscribers for WoW (up from 6.8 million in Q2). It's only been a little over two weeks since then.
Compare to Cataclysm where there was no discernible change in subscriptions (followed by a the first major subscriptions drop in WoWs' history) or MoP where the change was less than a million.
Even if only half of the returning/new players stay this is a pretty big win for a game that looked solidly on the decline.
Pfft. I was only off by 1,1 million. Not that much
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EPT
