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United States23745 Posts
On October 14 2014 23:55 Kupon3ss wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2014 22:38 onlywonderboy wrote:On October 14 2014 14:24 Kupon3ss wrote:
Basically the reason TL LoL coverage was unsuccessful was mainly 2fold
1. Riot wanted to maintain absolute controll over the scene and coverage and was able to pay the best writers from each community website to write for them instead, even from TL we have Neo, Fionn, and Chexx. Can you really expect to build up a strong community site and do coverage if the people making the game are actively trying to prevent you from doing it while producing Riot-approved superiorcontent?
2. Covering NA/EU - like why would you cover the 2 weakest scenes, compete against RIOTESPORTS, and devote manpower to writing about something that everybody who follows LoL has a thousand sources to when what TL does best is the opposite of regular coverage that's churned out. Why the focus wasn't on using our roots and connection in Korean Esports to cover the strongest scene in the world in something unique, valuable, and pitched for the hardcore fans was beyond me.
Those two were a pair of reasons why TL LoL coverage would never have succeeded in the end no matter what. All other reasons like "lack of TL support" are all excuses to cover up something that fundamentally had no hope of working given the path it was taking and business environment it was competing in. I agree with point one. As for part two, Asmo and I covered NA/EU because it was the scene we were most familiar with. And despite what a lot of people have said, most of our articles had more in-depth analysis than other websites' LCS recaps that were being produced at the time. But if TL had said "hey we're gonna officially support Chexx and his coverage of OGN"I would have jumped over in a heart beat. But even that wasn't something that was even close to happening. I'm not even that upset anymore that we didn't get officially covered, but how about you don't shit on the content we did produce when we actually had passion for this website before it burned out over the course of two years of political bullshit. I agree that our content in of itself taken out of isolation was great. But you're talking about your personal experience as opposed to the grand scheme NA coverage. No matter how good the content was, what is its ability to compete when people had a number of other sources to choose from, including the official riot coverage of the scene plastered onto the front of the game client? For an individual writer, the best case scenario while covering NA/EU was to write until you get noticed, then get picked up by Riot. Where does that leave TL coverage of those scenes in the long run, in a treadmill of inputting in insane amount of effort for something that has no logical avenue of success. It quickly became thankless and I'm amazed by the hard work and dedication that you guys put into it.
Thanks for at least acknowledging that we put in a lot of effort into the content we produced. When the main debates were happening it honestly felt like people just assumed we were producing rote recaps of each LCS game which was often not that case. I pretty much agree, Riot basically trying to control the enthusiast press made the prospect of covering NA/EU a logistical nightmare.
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On October 14 2014 20:16 caelym wrote:
I find it weirdly fascinating, but arena is probably the most unwatchable esport ever (bad UI and huge burden of knowledge). it's also been around forever, but has never grown out of its niche community.
Hmm it Would be quite cool to see an Eye of the Storm spectated and with good strategy comments.
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Kupo's right on both his points. First one's blatantly obvious, but the second one should be as well.
Look at what everyone writes these days, look at the focus and just look at what the target audience is. If you're looking for upvotes on Reddit, you're looking at the NA/EU LCS crowd. Hundreds of thousands of viewers watch every single week and let's be real once I've seen the games, I don't want a recap because I already know what happened. I don't need you to tell me Curse is worse than Cloud 9 because Cloud 9 OGNTSM'd them to death.
What I want to see is unique content, something that draws a crowd. Up until very recently, there were very few outlets reporting on LPL/OGN/Anything not EU or NA LCS. What you could have done is bridged the gap between the Asian teams and the western world. Let's be real here, before worlds came around not many people knew about the stories of these teams, how they came to be, or even their playstyles. Even analysts just generalize and say "Hey, it's LPL, they must have aggressive playstyles. Every single one of them!"
We get our daily feed of information for the Western scene from Reddit, OnGamers, etc. But realistically there's none on pretty much any of the Asian teams. It's all about playing the viewership market. You can choose to be a little fish in a big pond or a big fish in a little pond.
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Wow I wonder who that could be
...CSheep?!?!?!
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United States15536 Posts
Yo red, how's that BL:tPS?
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On October 15 2014 02:11 AsmodeusXI wrote:
Yo red, how's that BL:tPS?
I only got to play for a couple hours before sleepy time but it's fun, writing is still good, floaty space physics are cool, and though I'm not a fan of the oxygen system I'll get over it when I'm used to it.
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On October 15 2014 02:15 red_ wrote:I only got to play for a couple hours before sleepy time but it's fun, writing is still good, floaty space physics are cool, and though I'm not a fan of the oxygen system I'll get over it when I'm used to it.
i THOUGHT ABOUT buying it but I'm just going to wait. Not as interested in the characters as I was for 1 or 2.
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On October 15 2014 02:18 Cixah wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 02:15 red_ wrote:On October 15 2014 02:11 AsmodeusXI wrote:
Yo red, how's that BL:tPS? I only got to play for a couple hours before sleepy time but it's fun, writing is still good, floaty space physics are cool, and though I'm not a fan of the oxygen system I'll get over it when I'm used to it. i THOUGHT ABOUT buying it but I'm just going to wait. Not as interested in the characters as I was for 1 or 2.
I will miss Tiny Tina.
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United States23745 Posts
On October 15 2014 02:06 Lost My Will To Live wrote:
Kupo's right on both his points. First one's blatantly obvious, but the second one should be as well.
Look at what everyone writes these days, look at the focus and just look at what the target audience is. If you're looking for upvotes on Reddit, you're looking at the NA/EU LCS crowd. Hundreds of thousands of viewers watch every single week and let's be real once I've seen the games, I don't want a recap because I already know what happened. I don't need you to tell me Curse is worse than Cloud 9 because Cloud 9 OGNTSM'd them to death.
What I want to see is unique content, something that draws a crowd. Up until very recently, there were very few outlets reporting on LPL/OGN/Anything not EU or NA LCS. What you could have done is bridged the gap between the Asian teams and the western world. Let's be real here, before worlds came around not many people knew about the stories of these teams, how they came to be, or even their playstyles. Even analysts just generalize and say "Hey, it's LPL, they must have aggressive playstyles. Every single one of them!"
We get our daily feed of information for the Western scene from Reddit, OnGamers, etc. But realistically there's none on pretty much any of the Asian teams. It's all about playing the viewership market. You can choose to be a little fish in a big pond or a big fish in a little pond.
LOL this is exactly the point I made earlier. We WERE doing more than just recapping the games. We did things like team comp analysis, bigger pieces on rivalry storylines, how teams were adapting to the meta ect. Like I agree out content was flawed because there were a wealth of other options when it came to NA/EU coverage, including Riot, but we were producing better stuff than most sites. Which, fine, I agree wasn't enough, but don't act like we didn't try different things.
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Not sure if anyone here is looking to buying higher-end IEM's, but woot has a great deal for Monster Turbine for 50 bucks (around 60 including shipping + tax). link for those that are interested.
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Need some tech help... I just went to attach my powerpoint presentation file to an email and couldn't because it's 213,000 KB... normally it's 700. What happened. I didn't make the powerpoint, but i've editted and I have no clue what is in it to make it that big.
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On October 15 2014 03:34 mordek wrote:
Need some tech help... I just went to attach my powerpoint presentation file to an email and couldn't because it's 213,000 KB... normally it's 700. What happened. I didn't make the powerpoint, but i've editted and I have no clue what is in it to make it that big.
Images? Triggers? Sounds?
Push comes to shove get 7zip and condense and send.
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It's literally slides of Excel charts copied in.
Ok, maybe the person copied the charts with the links to the data enabled (?) and that's all the data...
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On October 15 2014 02:24 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 02:06 Lost My Will To Live wrote:
Kupo's right on both his points. First one's blatantly obvious, but the second one should be as well.
Look at what everyone writes these days, look at the focus and just look at what the target audience is. If you're looking for upvotes on Reddit, you're looking at the NA/EU LCS crowd. Hundreds of thousands of viewers watch every single week and let's be real once I've seen the games, I don't want a recap because I already know what happened. I don't need you to tell me Curse is worse than Cloud 9 because Cloud 9 OGNTSM'd them to death.
What I want to see is unique content, something that draws a crowd. Up until very recently, there were very few outlets reporting on LPL/OGN/Anything not EU or NA LCS. What you could have done is bridged the gap between the Asian teams and the western world. Let's be real here, before worlds came around not many people knew about the stories of these teams, how they came to be, or even their playstyles. Even analysts just generalize and say "Hey, it's LPL, they must have aggressive playstyles. Every single one of them!"
We get our daily feed of information for the Western scene from Reddit, OnGamers, etc. But realistically there's none on pretty much any of the Asian teams. It's all about playing the viewership market. You can choose to be a little fish in a big pond or a big fish in a little pond. LOL this is exactly the point I made earlier. We WERE doing more than just recapping the games. We did things like team comp analysis, bigger pieces on rivalry storylines, how teams were adapting to the meta ect. Like I agree out content was flawed because there were a wealth of other options when it came to NA/EU coverage, including Riot, but we were producing better stuff than most sites. Which, fine, I agree wasn't enough, but don't act like we didn't try different things.
Doesn't even matter because as I said before your content may be the best in the world but if you market it poorly (and it was), and are competing against many other outlets for news and analysis, then you're basically irrelevant unless you're at the very top.
My point isn't that you guys didn't produce good content, you just seem to swing every conversation about how TL hates LoL into "We don't get enough respect". Teamliquid doesn't pay you, you volunteer for it. It's not about recognition, it's about passion for eSports. What you have is the convoluted notion that people should respect you for what you do on TL and that's entirely not what it's about. There are people that respect your work. People here within the subforum respect what you did in producing good quality content. Just because some people that have nothing to do with LoL don't care about what you do doesn't mean you should go cry about it when TL decides to make a business decision to pick up HotS instead of League.
It happens every time TL ventures into a new eSport not named League. Just drop it already and be content with what we have here. If it happens, it happens. Otherwise don't make a big deal about it just because you think they don't appreciate what's here within TL LoL.
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On October 15 2014 03:35 mordek wrote:
It's literally slides of Excel charts copied in.
That's awkward. Sounds like something is corrupt in the images of the excel stuff. Check and make sure your image sizes in the PP aren't redic.
Other than that I'd just zip and go. It's probablly safer for emails anyway.
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On October 15 2014 03:36 Lost My Will To Live wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 02:24 onlywonderboy wrote:On October 15 2014 02:06 Lost My Will To Live wrote:
Kupo's right on both his points. First one's blatantly obvious, but the second one should be as well.
Look at what everyone writes these days, look at the focus and just look at what the target audience is. If you're looking for upvotes on Reddit, you're looking at the NA/EU LCS crowd. Hundreds of thousands of viewers watch every single week and let's be real once I've seen the games, I don't want a recap because I already know what happened. I don't need you to tell me Curse is worse than Cloud 9 because Cloud 9 OGNTSM'd them to death.
What I want to see is unique content, something that draws a crowd. Up until very recently, there were very few outlets reporting on LPL/OGN/Anything not EU or NA LCS. What you could have done is bridged the gap between the Asian teams and the western world. Let's be real here, before worlds came around not many people knew about the stories of these teams, how they came to be, or even their playstyles. Even analysts just generalize and say "Hey, it's LPL, they must have aggressive playstyles. Every single one of them!"
We get our daily feed of information for the Western scene from Reddit, OnGamers, etc. But realistically there's none on pretty much any of the Asian teams. It's all about playing the viewership market. You can choose to be a little fish in a big pond or a big fish in a little pond. LOL this is exactly the point I made earlier. We WERE doing more than just recapping the games. We did things like team comp analysis, bigger pieces on rivalry storylines, how teams were adapting to the meta ect. Like I agree out content was flawed because there were a wealth of other options when it came to NA/EU coverage, including Riot, but we were producing better stuff than most sites. Which, fine, I agree wasn't enough, but don't act like we didn't try different things. Doesn't even matter because as I said before your content may be the best in the world but if you market it poorly (and it was), and are competing against many other outlets for news and analysis, then you're basically irrelevant unless you're at the very top. My point isn't that you guys didn't produce good content, you just seem to swing every conversation about how TL hates LoL into "We don't get enough respect". Teamliquid doesn't pay you, you volunteer for it. It's not about recognition, it's about passion for eSports. What you have is the convoluted notion that people should respect you for what you do on TL and that's entirely not what it's about. There are people that respect your work. People here within the subforum respect what you did in producing good quality content. Just because some people that have nothing to do with LoL don't care about what you do doesn't mean you should go cry about it when TL decides to make a business decision to pick up HotS instead of League. It happens every time TL ventures into a new eSport not named League. Just drop it already and be content with what we have here. If it happens, it happens. Otherwise don't make a big deal about it just because you think they don't appreciate what's here within TL LoL.
For an 11 day account with 7 posts, you probably shouldn't be throwing "we" around.
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On October 15 2014 03:40 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 03:36 Lost My Will To Live wrote:On October 15 2014 02:24 onlywonderboy wrote:On October 15 2014 02:06 Lost My Will To Live wrote:
Kupo's right on both his points. First one's blatantly obvious, but the second one should be as well.
Look at what everyone writes these days, look at the focus and just look at what the target audience is. If you're looking for upvotes on Reddit, you're looking at the NA/EU LCS crowd. Hundreds of thousands of viewers watch every single week and let's be real once I've seen the games, I don't want a recap because I already know what happened. I don't need you to tell me Curse is worse than Cloud 9 because Cloud 9 OGNTSM'd them to death.
What I want to see is unique content, something that draws a crowd. Up until very recently, there were very few outlets reporting on LPL/OGN/Anything not EU or NA LCS. What you could have done is bridged the gap between the Asian teams and the western world. Let's be real here, before worlds came around not many people knew about the stories of these teams, how they came to be, or even their playstyles. Even analysts just generalize and say "Hey, it's LPL, they must have aggressive playstyles. Every single one of them!"
We get our daily feed of information for the Western scene from Reddit, OnGamers, etc. But realistically there's none on pretty much any of the Asian teams. It's all about playing the viewership market. You can choose to be a little fish in a big pond or a big fish in a little pond. LOL this is exactly the point I made earlier. We WERE doing more than just recapping the games. We did things like team comp analysis, bigger pieces on rivalry storylines, how teams were adapting to the meta ect. Like I agree out content was flawed because there were a wealth of other options when it came to NA/EU coverage, including Riot, but we were producing better stuff than most sites. Which, fine, I agree wasn't enough, but don't act like we didn't try different things. Doesn't even matter because as I said before your content may be the best in the world but if you market it poorly (and it was), and are competing against many other outlets for news and analysis, then you're basically irrelevant unless you're at the very top. My point isn't that you guys didn't produce good content, you just seem to swing every conversation about how TL hates LoL into "We don't get enough respect". Teamliquid doesn't pay you, you volunteer for it. It's not about recognition, it's about passion for eSports. What you have is the convoluted notion that people should respect you for what you do on TL and that's entirely not what it's about. There are people that respect your work. People here within the subforum respect what you did in producing good quality content. Just because some people that have nothing to do with LoL don't care about what you do doesn't mean you should go cry about it when TL decides to make a business decision to pick up HotS instead of League. It happens every time TL ventures into a new eSport not named League. Just drop it already and be content with what we have here. If it happens, it happens. Otherwise don't make a big deal about it just because you think they don't appreciate what's here within TL LoL. For an 11 day account with 7 posts, you probably shouldn't be throwing "we" around.
I don't think you realize who that actually is tho.
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United States47024 Posts
It's more obvious than when I was posting as NotYango.
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Well at least he's not forgetting to switch accounts before talking about Void.
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EPT
