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Off-Topic General Discussion - Page 2491
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
www.twitch.tv/jcarlsoniv | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/oq6uPng.jpg) | ||
MoonBear
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On July 16 2014 09:28 Tooplark wrote: Also, Body Slam and a few other moves are a guaranteed hit for double damage on a Minimized pokemon. So an anti-Blissey pokemon is as simple as a reasonable physical attacker with Body Slam. A Snorlax with no attack investment and a neutral nature does 50-60%. EDIT: I should make it clear that I've never actually played against a Minimize Blissey, so this is pure theorymon. DOUBLE EDIT: Double Team doesn't have the same properties as Minimize regarding Body Slam, so Double Team Blissey would be pretty frustrating. I was curious so I ran some damage calcs. + Show Spoiler [Damage Calcs] + 4 Atk Snorlax Body Slam vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 181-214 (25.3 - 29.9%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery So even with max offence stats (which no one runs on Snorlax any more) you'd have to crit twice to not get PP Stalled into oblivion. That seems like a bad idea. Of course the premier wall breakers now have much better stats. Some analysis on that in a no ban environment is below. I've spoilered it because it's kinda boring. + Show Spoiler [Random Analysis] + 252+ Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 1132-1332 (158.5 - 186.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO So like what does this tell us? Well M-Luk destroys everything with Adaptability and type advantage which basically what you'd expect and if it didn't that would be a problem. Even if we change it to Eviolite 252/252+ Chansey we still fine it overkills by a lot. Your basic Blissey set-up however is surprisingly resilient to everything else however and if it has a few Evasion boosts under its belt then the only way it's going to die is a lucky crit through evasion. The numbers turn even worse if we start doing calcs involving Reflect/Light Screen or try Eviolite Chansey (the only thing that matters here is resistance since Wish/Softboiled/Evasion means you gain more EHP from resist stats so Leftovers is surprisingly worse and the extra 6.25% rarely matters against these wall breakers anyway). That then leaves predicting the Blissey switch and trying to see if the other player gets greedy and doesn't swap back out immediately or using really janky sets like Smeagle Lock On/Sheer Cold to force the switch. Which is kind of the whole point about where this nonsense starts to warp the meta around it. If your only option is to kill Blissey the moment it appears before it starts turning the game into a series of coin flips or run a single Pokemon dedicated to dealing with the thread (all of which off the top of my head get easily trapped and wrecked by M-Gar) that seems... really bad? I mean if we take the only two viable Haze users in Uber tier for example... 252 SpA Mega Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 408-480 (155.7 - 183.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO I mean at this point you're basically looking at who had the more mind-game-y EV and item sets on their M-Gar to see who can out-speed and out-power who and if your entire game is going to descent into a speed tie (which is a 50-50 coinflip in and of itself) followed by an agonising 200 extra turns where Blissey slowly PP stalls and kills you that seems like an appalling way to play the game. And that's not including the nonsense where you randomly throw in Swagplay teams or something. I mean like over the course of 500 games the stats even out and you won't find any high ranked RNG-only teams. But the problem is that you'll have to grind through all these RNG teams involving 1+hr games to get through the mid elo levels before you can break away from that mess in the hope maybe you start playing real games? I mean sure there's still some skill involved but it just seems to agonisingly boring and masochistic. It's like if LoL locked you into elo hell except you were forced to play 1+hr games which were decided by a coin flip. It just feels really wrong. And that's kind of what you want to be avoiding here with the Evasion Clause rule. On July 16 2014 09:28 Tooplark wrote: I mean, that's why I don't play on Smogon. A group of people, who are much better at Pokemon than I, picked what dumb things they're ok with. I'm just complaining about their decisions, with absolutely 0 expectation that they'll listen to me. I mean you can think of Smogon & Pokemon as like Project M & Brawl. Gay tripping is gay so they took it out and it made the game better. Some characters clearly needed fixing so they did their best to fix things. And it's made a better game out of it, although Smogon can't actually rebalance and recode everything so they have to do the next best thing. I was so sad that Chapin didn't make finals but damn that was pretty crazy haha | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
On July 16 2014 11:22 WaveofShadow wrote: Soniv twitch chat so cancerous Nah, only ghandi. Granted, his cancer literally killed off nearly all of TLLOLOTGD, so it's to be expected. | ||
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GhandiEAGLE
United States20754 Posts
On July 16 2014 11:39 BlackPaladin wrote: Nah, only ghandi. Granted, his cancer literally killed off nearly all of TLLOLOTGD, so it's to be expected. I kept Shelke alive though. He's my favorite now. | ||
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
On July 16 2014 09:50 jcarlsoniv wrote: that would take forever, especially without simultaneous turns lol also one more turn syndrome would kill me Just run simultaneous turns, (or if that makes wars too rng, use the psuedo one where only people at war have their turns seperately.) and run a 2-3-4 ish minute time limit on turns if it's really neccesary. Discussing it has made me really wanna play now :p | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On July 16 2014 11:48 killerdog wrote: Just run simultaneous turns, (or if that makes wars too rng, use the psuedo one where only people at war have their turns seperately.) and run a 2-3-4 ish minute time limit on turns if it's really neccesary. Discussing it has made me really wanna play now :p I mean, I'd be willing to try one a day when I have nothing to do. But I'm also trash tier at Civ My last BoI run was pretty damn good | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
It's late-ish so I don't know how long I'll go since I'm still sick. www.twitch.tv/waveofshadow | ||
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GhandiEAGLE
United States20754 Posts
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Frudgey
Canada3367 Posts
I can't read it right now.  | ||
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ComaDose
Canada10357 Posts
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
Extra thanks and shout-out to Frudgey. I won't talk about what he did, he can do the honours himself or someone else can.  Anyway for those of you who missed it, here's a fun highlight. Even for those of you who don't play Isaac I think it's worth a watch. http://www.twitch.tv/waveofshadow/c/4673821 I feel like I'm obligated to stream every night now since it seems people are still really enjoying it (and not going to lie, I really am too  ). Still can't decide if facecam stays or not. More tomorrow, and eventually Dark Souls. | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
should I unfix it or is it not worth actually his stream probably won't work for me because most of these streams don't (soniv, crusnik etc... sufficiency works fine though) | ||
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GhandiEAGLE
United States20754 Posts
On July 16 2014 15:36 Scip wrote: Damn my fixed new sleep schedule and now wave starts streaming more regularly should I unfix it or is it not worth actually his stream probably won't work for me because most of these streams don't (soniv, crusnik etc... sufficiency works fine though) Unfix pls. I miss u. Soniv's stream works poorly for everyone, not just you. | ||
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Parnage
United States7414 Posts
Double team/minimize is literally the most annoying thing to run into for the record. It's the legit definition of anti-fun. At least with protect it can not work if you use it again but the evasion.. icky. Lastly all of these streams is just great for my boring evenings. Keep up the good work offtopic stream crews. | ||
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Frudgey
Canada3367 Posts
Also Wave you should keep the facecam. | ||
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red_
United States8474 Posts
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Duvon
Sweden2360 Posts
On July 16 2014 16:43 red_ wrote: I wish to hear this story. Metoometoometoo I was sleeping like a good boy. | ||
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