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It has come to my attention that there has been some discussion as to the difference between "BW era" posters and "SC2 era posters". I thought the best way to demonstrate would be to start with a diagram
+ Show Spoiler +
The posting arsenal of a BW poster includes, but is not limited to: Logic, Mathematics, Statistics,high level peer review (if you count top players as peers to BW posters which is a reasonable assumption), and a solid understanding of both the basic game mechanics and how the metagame relates to such mechanics.
The posting arsenal of a SC2 poster includes, and is certainly limited to: Personal experience, experience of their even worse friends, high level stupidity (a idea so stupid most people don't take it seriously limiting the possible number of people to refute their argument), strawmen arguments, and last but certainly not least: The hipster: e.g: "This idea is so radical nobody ever thought of it, and everyone makes up reasons to discard it out of hand".
This combines the elements of stupidity, strawmen arguments, weaving wonderfully with personal experience; since there is nobody stupid enough to try an idea, there is nobody who can refute it by experiment. Any attempt to use logic or reason will be repelled by the strawmen of "You just assume it's bad because it's not mainstream. "Meanwhile, the poster can cite the 3 games where they, for example, won a game with support warwick. This is a deadly technique in the hands of the most elite sc2 posters, however such a poster requires not only low enough elo to make the idea work, a heavy enough dose of the Dunning-Kruger effect to discard the skill level of the games it was tested it.
It is advised for non-BW posters to steer clear of these posts, as it leads to a highly volatile chain reaction which may lead to temp bans.
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On October 10 2013 01:12 phyvo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2013 00:50 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Dominions 4 release version and game manual will be released tomorrow.
Time to get cracking on that TL S&G thread.
Also going to find a place to print out the manual. I hope the manual helps me out a ton, I'm generally always confused about everything and it isn't helpful when I read out of date things and then wonder why I can't make skull mentors (ooooh, they don't exist anymore! (they don't, right?)). (Aside, I think I saw soloside post on their desura forums. WAT?)
Skull mentors, because of how powerful they are, were moved to Const-6 (on the other hand Quills which are A1 are available at Const-2). Overall, I like the change. Quills are generally good in the early game because Air gems are generally heavily contested throughout the game (because Cloud Trapeze is one of the most powerful mobility spells in the game and common on "thugs", among other uses), and Skull Mentors were extremely powerful where they were previously (in contrast, the next power research item, Lightless Lanterns, were also at Const-6). To really differentiate the three: Quills were a low amount of research early in the game, in a magic field where gems are pretty tightly constrained due to all the different expenditures and spells air nations prioritize, while Skull Mentors were alot of research points for alot of gems (mage time efficiency, if not cost efficiency) in a magic field where gems weren't constrained early on, and Lanterns are cheap and extremely cost effective in a field with relatively few constant expenditures (F1 and the most cost effective). The recent changes help balance the three out, with research buffs to Quills making them attractive early on now.
The manual is almost certainly going to help. There will be a tutorial (though it's mostly to go over the basics). along with (I believe) some preset pretender builds so people new to the game don't have to learn the nuances of pretender design quite yet (in general, there are 4 directions to take it: bless builds, early SCs, scales builds, and rainbow pretenders, and everything in between), and as the game moves on, the veteran community will shift from "figuring out the nuances" mode (and setting up public MP servers for easy PBEM play) to "expand the community/help people learn" mode. Well, that and "modding" mode. And for a game like Dom4, the manual is something every veteran uses if only for references to game mechanics. Despite being somewhat dated for item reference with the advent of successive patches/and particularly mods, I used my physical one I got from Dominions 3 release very frequently. Once you understand the probability/dice roll system, you can properly appreciate the survivability bonus +2 or +3 defense skill can give (except against multiple opponents).
The Dom4 community will be migrating over all the guides in the next few months, but for TL specifically, I'll probably dedicate a healthy amount of time putting together newbie guides (aka, pretender design, magic and thugging/SCing, communions, etc) once the game releases, particularly in the first few weeks, and answering any questions people tend to have, as well as figuring out which guides are still applicable nowadays. For instance, most communion guides had major sections rendered obsolete with the removal of reverse communioning; aka, the communion master could cast buffs that affected all the slaves, and the slaves would still be able to cast afterwards. This created the possibility to build massive battlefield communions for evocation spamming, when you just had 1-3 masters casting magic buff spells and enchantments to power/sustain a large reverse communions spamming meteors, lightning bolts, and all other manner of battle magic. However, the rest of the guides still do apply (standard communions, and communions dedicated to buffing thugs is also applicable, though it requires retreating the mages after so the thug/SC can do their thing, etc).
There's also been nerfs to the endgame magic/research speed (and buffs to elemental magics) so that not having Astral, Death, or Blood is no longer a death-knell in MP games (because of how relatively quickly tartarians, major blood summons, and high end communions/sabbaths became relevant the game).
But in general, the balance changes will probably take months-years to fully digest. If you have any questions, feel free to shoot me PMs while I finish up on a general TL thread for it. I'll be absolutely happy to help. I remember my newbie days clearly (though I can't call myself a veteran, given I didn't play enough MP, I have a pretty good mid-level experience and solid theoretical grasp of the game).
PS: Saw your post on Desura and posted a response.
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On October 10 2013 01:37 Slayer91 wrote:It has come to my attention that there has been some discussion as to the difference between "BW era" posters and "SC2 era posters". I thought the best way to demonstrate would be to start with a diagram + Show Spoiler +The posting arsenal of a BW poster includes, but is not limited to: Logic, Mathematics, Statistics,high level peer review (if you count top players as peers to BW posters which is a reasonable assumption), and a solid understanding of both the basic game mechanics and how the metagame relates to such mechanics. The posting arsenal of a SC2 poster includes, and is certainly limited to: Personal experience, experience of their even worse friends, high level stupidity (a idea so stupid most people don't take it seriously limiting the possible number of people to refute their argument), strawmen arguments, and last but certainly not least: The hipster: e.g: "This idea is so radical nobody ever thought of it, and everyone makes up reasons to discard it out of hand". This combines the elements of stupidity, strawmen arguments, weaving wonderfully with personal experience; since there is nobody stupid enough to try an idea, there is nobody who can refute it by experiment. Any attempt to use logic or reason will be repelled by the strawmen of "You just assume it's bad because it's not mainstream. "Meanwhile, the poster can cite the 3 games where they, for example, won a game with support warwick. This is a deadly technique in the hands of the most elite sc2 posters, however such a poster requires not only low enough elo to make the idea work, a heavy enough dose of the Dunning-Kruger effect to discard the skill level of the games it was tested it. It is advised for non-BW posters to steer clear of these posts, as it leads to a highly volatile chain reaction which may lead to temp bans.
That's a really well thought out seperation. Very easy to put names into those 2 categories, including myself.
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it was just some bollocks I made up so I had an excuse to post that picture LOL
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
Sir, this is the Off-Topic thread. Please keep the paragraphs out (and Alaric too).
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It still makes sense :o Just put pre-LoL era and LoL-era into it instead of BW and SC2 and watch the magic go.
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On October 10 2013 01:57 Roffles wrote:
Sir, this is the Off-Topic thread. Please keep the paragraphs out (and Alaric too).
Dominions 4 deserves paragraphs. Because indie games.
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On October 10 2013 02:01 Lord Tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2013 01:57 Roffles wrote:
Sir, this is the Off-Topic thread. Please keep the paragraphs out (and Alaric too). Dominions 4 deserves paragraphs. Because indie games.
ignore rawfulz he's a toxic poster
jesus christ i have 114 posts on this account already
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But it's cold outside. 
Edit: On October 10 2013 01:51 Slayer91 wrote:
it was just some bollocks I made up so I had an excuse to post that picture LOL
So basically an example of when CSheep made a big post about how shit posting sometimes is less about the one-liner than making a wall of text under it so that people think the post is about the big paragraphs instead of the shitty one-liner that spurred it all?
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On October 10 2013 02:02 Vegetarian Wolf wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2013 02:01 Lord Tolkien wrote:On October 10 2013 01:57 Roffles wrote:
Sir, this is the Off-Topic thread. Please keep the paragraphs out (and Alaric too). Dominions 4 deserves paragraphs. Because indie games. ignore rawfulz he's a toxic poster jesus christ i have 114 posts on this account already
Ruffles has ridges, I know. 
On October 10 2013 02:03 Alaric wrote:But it's cold outside.
lrn2canada n00b. What doesn't kill you makes you politer and more passive aggressive.
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United States23745 Posts
On October 10 2013 01:03 JonGalt wrote:
I pretty much listen to Hip Hop feela, but from that genre I would suggest:
(This group I consider of a higher quality)
Kendrick Lamar
Childish Gambino
2Pac
B.O.B.
Kid Cudi
Eminem
Blue Scholars
J. Cole
Yelawolf
Mos Def
(This group is just as enjoyable but consists of my "guilty pleasures")
Wax
Macklemore
Hoodie Allen
Lil Wayne
G-Eazy
Moufy
Timeflies Tuesday
OH. And for Alaric. Basotho music is called Famu. It is basically some dude yelling/singing/slam poetry to lots of whistles and.... ACCORDIONS! It's super cool and the music videos are fucking hilarious.
I used to not care about rap/hip-hop, but I've really been into it recently. I have Kendrick Lamar and Kanye West to thank for that. GKMC and MBDTF really opened the flood gate in terms of my interest in rap. Currently listening to nostalgia, ULTRA by Frank Ocean, good shit.
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On October 10 2013 02:03 Alaric wrote:But it's cold outside. Edit: Show nested quote +On October 10 2013 01:51 Slayer91 wrote:
it was just some bollocks I made up so I had an excuse to post that picture LOL So basically an example of when CSheep made a big post about how shit posting sometimes is less about the one-liner than making a wall of text under it so that people think the post is about the big paragraphs instead of the shitty one-liner that spurred it all?
just because i called it some bollocks i made up doesnt mean its not still better quality than like the last 10 pages of this thread put together LOL
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On October 10 2013 02:13 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2013 02:03 Alaric wrote:But it's cold outside. Edit: On October 10 2013 01:51 Slayer91 wrote:
it was just some bollocks I made up so I had an excuse to post that picture LOL So basically an example of when CSheep made a big post about how shit posting sometimes is less about the one-liner than making a wall of text under it so that people think the post is about the big paragraphs instead of the shitty one-liner that spurred it all? just because i called it some bollocks i made up doesnt mean its not still better quality than like the last 10 pages of this thread put together LOL
ok
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Kanye West songs have probably some of the most hilarious lyrics in them, it's one of the big reasons I listen to his stuff.
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On October 10 2013 02:18 Nos- wrote:
Kanye West songs have probably some of the most hilarious lyrics in them, it's one of the big reasons I listen to his stuff.
I got a dirty mind
I got filthy ways
I'm tryna bathe my ape, (ape),
In your milky way (way)
I'm a legend
I'm irreverent
I be reverend
I'll be so faaaaa-ar up
We don't give a fuuuh-uh-uck
Welcome to the danger zone
Step into the fantasy
You are not invited to the other side of sanity
They're callin' me an alien a big headed astronaut
Maybe it's because your boy Yeezy get ass a lot
I know a bar out in Mars
Where they drivin' spaceships instead of cars
Cop a prada space suit about the stars
Getting stupid hah, straight up out the jars
Pockets on shrek, rockets on deck
Tell me what's next? Alien sex.
Imma disrobe you
Then Imma probe you
See I've abducted you
So I'll tell you what to do
I tell you what to do (what to do, what to do)
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I actually really dislike most of Kanye's stuff. It doesn't help that he's a total douche.
But there are a few of his songs I enjoy.
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On October 10 2013 02:21 Vegetarian Wolf wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2013 02:18 Nos- wrote:
Kanye West songs have probably some of the most hilarious lyrics in them, it's one of the big reasons I listen to his stuff. + Show Spoiler +I got a dirty mind
I got filthy ways
I'm tryna bathe my ape, (ape),
In your milky way (way)
I'm a legend
I'm irreverent
I be reverend
I'll be so faaaaa-ar up
We don't give a fuuuh-uh-uck
Welcome to the danger zone
Step into the fantasy
You are not invited to the other side of sanity
They're callin' me an alien a big headed astronaut
Maybe it's because your boy Yeezy get ass a lot
I know a bar out in Mars
Where they drivin' spaceships instead of cars
Cop a prada space suit about the stars
Getting stupid hah, straight up out the jars
Pockets on shrek, rockets on deck
Tell me what's next? Alien sex.
Imma disrobe you
Then Imma probe you
See I've abducted you
So I'll tell you what to do
I tell you what to do (what to do, what to do)
wow what the fucking fuck?
And people wonder why I don't listen to rap that often Jesus
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On October 10 2013 02:27 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2013 02:21 Vegetarian Wolf wrote:On October 10 2013 02:18 Nos- wrote:
Kanye West songs have probably some of the most hilarious lyrics in them, it's one of the big reasons I listen to his stuff. + Show Spoiler +I got a dirty mind
I got filthy ways
I'm tryna bathe my ape, (ape),
In your milky way (way)
I'm a legend
I'm irreverent
I be reverend
I'll be so faaaaa-ar up
We don't give a fuuuh-uh-uck
Welcome to the danger zone
Step into the fantasy
You are not invited to the other side of sanity
They're callin' me an alien a big headed astronaut
Maybe it's because your boy Yeezy get ass a lot
I know a bar out in Mars
Where they drivin' spaceships instead of cars
Cop a prada space suit about the stars
Getting stupid hah, straight up out the jars
Pockets on shrek, rockets on deck
Tell me what's next? Alien sex.
Imma disrobe you
Then Imma probe you
See I've abducted you
So I'll tell you what to do
I tell you what to do (what to do, what to do) wow what the fucking fuck? And people wonder why I don't listen to rap that often Jesus
Now now, Mr. KPop, you're not allowed to be music prejudiced.
+ Show Spoiler +except against country. Fuck country
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Teut is that from Ippo? Takamura vs that Black boxer? I don't want to look it up.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/CR3Tcrq.jpg)
