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Map Pool Matches![[image loading]](https://tl.net/tlpd/images/players/618.jpg) ![[image loading]](https://tl.net/tlpd/images/players/977.jpg) Trap vs Zest![[image loading]](https://tl.net/tlpd/images/players/6252.jpg) ![[image loading]](https://tl.net/tlpd/images/players/2031.jpg)  Reynor vs Cure![[image loading]](https://tl.net/tlpd/images/players/noimage.jpg) ![[image loading]](https://tl.net/tlpd/images/players/4567.jpg)  TBA vs Serral![[image loading]](https://tl.net/tlpd/images/players/4729.jpg) TBA vs DarkResultsCSS: FO-nTTaX Awesomeness: Panda Banner: Team Liquid | ||
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Elentos
55555 Posts
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Durnuu
13322 Posts
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
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Durnuu
13322 Posts
On June 26 2021 22:13 JustPassingBy wrote: When are the matches starting? Soon™ | ||
TheOneAboveU
Germany3367 Posts
On June 26 2021 22:06 Elentos wrote: Imagine not having an English stream on schedule because ESL.tv is showing an Australian event One that's shown by the ESL Australia stream anyways to top it off... | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45051 Posts
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
On June 26 2021 22:21 TheOneAboveU wrote: One that's shown by the ESL Australia stream anyways to top it off... While there's nothing on the TL stream... | ||
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Durnuu
13322 Posts
Only 40 minutes late  | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45051 Posts
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Durnuu
13322 Posts
On June 26 2021 22:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Everything seems to be working now Cure's brain doesn't | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45051 Posts
Touche lol... that outdated build was never gonna work. | ||
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Elentos
55555 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany16008 Posts
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JoeCool
Germany2520 Posts
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany16008 Posts
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JoeCool
Germany2520 Posts
On June 26 2021 23:14 Charoisaur wrote: worst build ever played in a professional game? Not even close... | ||
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
On June 26 2021 23:14 Charoisaur wrote: worst build ever played in a professional game? That belongs to Naniwa. | ||
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JoeCool
Germany2520 Posts
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parksonsc
175 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
On June 26 2021 23:18 parksonsc wrote: Cure should just retire, this is humiliation. You cannot tell someone to retire when he just defeated Clem in TvT. It was just that he didn't prepare much or kept experimenting against top tier Zerg player like Reynor, that's why he lost in dominating fashion like this.. I didn't see widow mines build from him yet which has proved to be devastating to Reynor in the past. | ||
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FuRong
New Zealand3089 Posts
Today he has been poor both in strategy and execution. Maybe that series against Ragnarok wrecked his confidence in TvZ. | ||
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
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JoeCool
Germany2520 Posts
On June 26 2021 23:27 AzAlexZ wrote: only Clem can beat the Italian Stallion Nah I think that Trap has a decent chance. | ||
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
I meant the Terran players. I don't anyone can beat Trap in this Tourney | ||
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Durnuu
13322 Posts
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JoeCool
Germany2520 Posts
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
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t5Fab
183 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany16008 Posts
On June 26 2021 23:38 Ciaus_Dronu wrote: How on Earth did that game end in Reynor's favor? a-move into Lurker / Blinding Cloud usually doesn't end well | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4955 Posts
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tigera6
3437 Posts
On June 26 2021 23:24 FuRong wrote: In the NeXT tournament Cure just 'played like Clem' and it was very effective against Reynor. Today he has been poor both in strategy and execution. Maybe that series against Ragnarok wrecked his confidence in TvZ. Actually 2 of his strategy today was the EXACT same one that he used against Reynor in NeXT, and there lies the problem. Dont use the same build against the same opponent, especially if you have beaten that person not more than a week ago. I think Cure was leaning too much into "all-in" with his build today, and leaving pretty much no room for coming back in case the push doesnt work. Even on that last game, I think Cure could have macro more at home with 4 bases rather than pushing into the Roach+Lurker army on Reynor side. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45051 Posts
On June 26 2021 23:18 parksonsc wrote: Cure should just retire, this is humiliation. So then everyone beaten by Cure should retire too, right? By the Transitive Property of Humiliation? | ||
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
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JoeCool
Germany2520 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Elentos
55555 Posts
On June 27 2021 00:29 Fanatic-Templar wrote: Oh no, this has been a terrible week, and I didn't even remember that today was Saturday! What, did you go to work by accident on top of that? | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
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Elentos
55555 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
On June 27 2021 00:41 Elentos wrote: What, did you go to work by accident on top of that? No, I haven't worked for the latter half of the week to deal with that stuff. | ||
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Elentos
55555 Posts
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Captain Peabody
United States3126 Posts
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Captain Peabody
United States3126 Posts
On June 27 2021 01:14 Captain Peabody wrote: cure is surviving!!! update: cure is dead | ||
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
At least got one map done with that marine stimmed builds. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45051 Posts
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JoeCool
Germany2520 Posts
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Elentos
55555 Posts
On June 27 2021 01:30 JoeCool wrote: Serral? Where are you? That's not the room hes usually in. Displaying his Finnish pride by playing from a sauna | ||
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Captain Peabody
United States3126 Posts
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
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geokilla
Canada8244 Posts
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JJH777
United States4414 Posts
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JoeCool
Germany2520 Posts
On June 27 2021 01:38 geokilla wrote: Serral not looking as dominant as Reynor against Cure. Maybe Serral should have stayed home instead of playing in the woods. Serral is not looking as dominant as Reynor against anyone. I must admit though that I haven't seen much of Reynors ZvP. | ||
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
On June 27 2021 01:55 Nakajin wrote: Maybe playing Starcraft between someone in the middle of the wood in Finland and someone in Korea is more than we can expect from even modern internet. hey don't bash the woods til you try it | ||
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
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TheOneAboveU
Germany3367 Posts
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
I feel like he had to try busting Cure at home and make thing a bit crazy | ||
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
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SC-Shield
Bulgaria832 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
On June 27 2021 02:22 Ciaus_Dronu wrote: Serral's play really not inspiring lately =/ His confidence level must have dropped terribly after losing many times to Reynor and Clem. | ||
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
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JoeCool
Germany2520 Posts
On June 27 2021 02:26 swarminfestor wrote: His confidence level must have dropped terribly after losing many times to Reynor and Clem. But isn't that the path all of the players eventually take? I mean it has been shown countless times in the history of SC2 that someone can be the absolute GOAT for quite some time until he passes on the crown to someone else. Nestea, MVP, Dear, PartinG, Innovation, Maru, Dark, Rogue, sOs etc. And now it's Reynors time to shine. | ||
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
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SC-Shield
Bulgaria832 Posts
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
On June 27 2021 02:37 SC-Shield wrote: Liberator/tank/marine combo so strong It is strong, but that felt like Serral dropping the ball a bit. That game he lost a ton of drones to hellions for example, should absolutely have been his win. And then we're talking a 2-1 lead instead of deficit and it's a different series already. The viper play was also... weird? | ||
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stilt
France2754 Posts
I thought it was only zvz after his elimination in europe but his zvp against zest was terrible (or was it trap ?) (doing nothing on ravager baneling against toss after winning a decisive fight until the toss is max is just not understandable at level...) and this terrible zvt follows the trend, he got a big edge on 3 games he lost, I can't even imagine rogue, dark or reynor losing 3 games in row in this position. That's sad for the one which was considered as close to be the perfect zerg... | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
On June 27 2021 02:37 SC-Shield wrote: Liberator/tank/marine combo so strong I hate Liberators for their freedom.  | ||
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Durnuu
13322 Posts
TSL are LIARS! | ||
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
On June 27 2021 02:54 Xain0n wrote: The downward trend in Serral's level is indeed alarming but it's not like we have never seen players recovering from a slump before... Y'a but for Serral it seems like a very very slow but steady decline in the last two and a half year. | ||
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
On June 27 2021 02:56 Nakajin wrote: Y'a but for Serral it seems like a very very slow but steady decline in the last two and a half year. A very slow decline which became a free fall after that reverse sweep against Trap. | ||
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stilt
France2754 Posts
On June 27 2021 02:57 Morbidius wrote: A very slow decline which became a free fall after that reverse sweep against Trap. His practise games seem really good accorting to both his mmr and the echo from other top players (denver, marinelord praised him lately) but on tournament he seems clearly past his prime. This is more like 2017 Serral. | ||
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16100 Posts
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Durnuu
13322 Posts
On June 27 2021 03:32 Vindicare605 wrote: Ah damn, I missed Cure smash Serral. At least I'll get to see Trap vs Reynor. Trap vs Reynor is tomorrow so you might just miss it as well | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On June 27 2021 03:06 stilt wrote: His practise games seem really good accorting to both his mmr and the echo from other top players (denver, marinelord praised him lately) but on tournament he seems clearly past his prime. This is more like 2017 Serral. Well, until 2020 Serral didn't really start declining imho; there were tournaments he didn't play at the absurd standard of his golden age in 2018(but even then there were less brilliant ones like Montreal); he lost clutchness for sure in 2019, Serral lost pretty much every important tournament in the last map of very hard fought series and he also suffered from Reynor's growth. Post pandemic Serral wasn't the same, mostly developing a weakness in ZvZ. Those last results in June seem to indicate he's dropped even below that but I still wouldn't say he's back at what he was in 2017, I'd say he's maybe more like pre ascension in 2018. I can't say for sure but I have hope that Serral will be back to winning tournaments, even if his career is already extremely impressive and successful and we could still be satisfied if it ended tomorrow. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16100 Posts
On June 27 2021 03:33 Durnuu wrote: Trap vs Reynor is tomorrow so you might just miss it as well I have to open the bar tomorrow. So I probably will | ||
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16100 Posts
On June 27 2021 03:34 Xain0n wrote: Well, until 2020 Serral didn't really start declining imho; there were tournaments he didn't play at the absurd standard of his golden age in 2018(but even then there were less brilliant ones like Montreal); he lost clutchness for sure in 2019, Serral lost pretty much every important tournament in the last map of very hard fought series and he also suffered from Reynor's growth. Post pandemic Serral wasn't the same, mostly developing a weakness in ZvZ. Those last results in June seem to indicate he's dropped even below that but I still wouldn't say he's back at what he was in 2017, I'd say he's maybe more like pre ascension in 2018. I can't say for sure but I have hope that Serral will be back to winning tournaments, even if his career is already extremely impressive and successful and we could still be satisfied if it ended tomorrow. Serral started declining when Zerg was nerfed from its overpowered state. That's the part fanboys like you will never admit. Serral hasn't been invincible since the Infestor, the Queen and Creep was nerfed. Reynor however is getting better and better proving that Zerg is not over nerfed too. It's only Serral specifically that has noticeably declined since those nerfs. | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On June 27 2021 03:44 Vindicare605 wrote: Serral started declining when Zerg was nerfed from its overpowered state. That's the part fanboys like you will never admit. And it's clearly only Xainon who makes the LR threads descend into flame wars. | ||
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
On June 27 2021 03:44 Vindicare605 wrote: Serral started declining when Zerg was nerfed from its overpowered state. That's the part fanboys like you will never admit. Serral hasn't been invincible since the Infestor, the Queen and Creep was nerfed. Reynor however is getting better and better proving that Zerg is not over nerfed too. It's only Serral specifically that has noticeably declined since those nerfs. He keeps proping up this ''ZvZ weakness'' bullshit when things went south for Serral as soon as Zerg wasn't massively favored in non mirrors. Even the periods where he admits the decline line up perfectly with balance changes that hurt Zerg. | ||
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
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GoloSC2
711 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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TheOneAboveU
Germany3367 Posts
On June 27 2021 03:58 sneakyfox wrote: Btw how did it go with TLO's two first predictions? Two times #true, shockingly. | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
Thanks, that's excellent. 8/8 for me then. | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
This game is hillarious | ||
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Durnuu
13322 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Sent.
Poland9246 Posts
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
On June 27 2021 04:02 Nakajin wrote: Omfg Zest is the worst player in history This game is hillarious Zest is something else lmao | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
On June 27 2021 04:04 Sent. wrote: Do structures benefit from microbial shroud? Nope. | ||
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Captain Peabody
United States3126 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany16008 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
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Captain Peabody
United States3126 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
On June 27 2021 04:10 starkiller123 wrote: this is peak starcraft, highest skilled era Hell, it's about time. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On June 27 2021 03:50 Morbidius wrote: He keeps proping up this ''ZvZ weakness'' bullshit when things went south for Serral as soon as Zerg wasn't massively favored in non mirrors. Even the periods where he admits the decline line up perfectly with balance changes that hurt Zerg. That's just so wrong you two don't even deserve a detailed answer, which has also been given many times already before. Instead of spewing out senselessness, go check yourself on Aligulac which matchup Serral got sensibly worse at after 2020 and also go check who won the majority of his Premier titles during the "Zerg op" days in 2019(spoiler: it's not Serral). | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16100 Posts
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Captain Peabody
United States3126 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany16008 Posts
On June 27 2021 04:09 Charoisaur wrote: those hydras are useless at this point. They will lose it for Dark called it. Imagine that were 20 Corruptors... | ||
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Durnuu
13322 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
On June 27 2021 04:16 Nakajin wrote: Zest executed his gameplan from A to Z perfectly here, what a response to a 12 pool it was all calculated | ||
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Shathe
Hungary422 Posts
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ZombieGrub
United States712 Posts
On June 27 2021 04:16 Nakajin wrote: Zest executed his gameplan from A to Z perfectly here, what a response to a 12 pool Take notes Protoss players. | ||
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
On June 27 2021 04:12 Xain0n wrote: That's just so wrong you two don't even deserve a detailed answer, which has also been given many times already before. Instead of spewing out senselessness, go check yourself on Aligulac which matchup Serral got sensibly worse at after 2020 and also go check who won the majority of his Premier titles during the "Zerg op" days in 2019(spoiler: it's not Serral). Who's the 2019 imbalance abuser? The guy who bitchslapped Serral all year or the guy who won a GSL last month while Serral can't get on a podium on EU?? | ||
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stilt
France2754 Posts
On June 27 2021 04:15 Charoisaur wrote: called it. Imagine that were 20 Corruptors... He never had the eco for those tho, his only chance was Zest messing up. | ||
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
On June 27 2021 04:21 stilt wrote: He never had the eco for those tho, his only chance was Zest messing up. which to be fair is not the worst position to be in lol, Zest makes...interesting decisions sometimes | ||
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stilt
France2754 Posts
On June 27 2021 04:23 starkiller123 wrote: which to be fair is not the worst position to be in lol, Zest makes...interesting decisions sometimes Yes totally ^^ The hold position lurkers, then zelotes... this game was pretty scrappy and funny. | ||
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
On June 27 2021 04:27 stilt wrote: Yes totally ^^ The hold position lurkers, then zelotes... this game was pretty scrappy and funny. The hold position zelots were inexplicable, I really want someone to ask Zest about it afterward. | ||
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
On June 27 2021 04:29 Nakajin wrote: The hold position zelots were inexplicable, I really want someone to ask Zest about it afterward. I'm sure he just forgot | ||
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
Nah but like how were they on hold position to begin with, is that a thing? | ||
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Durnuu
13322 Posts
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
On June 27 2021 04:30 Nakajin wrote: Nah but like how were they on hold position to begin with, is that a thing? yeah I don't have an explanation haha | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16008 Posts
On June 27 2021 04:21 stilt wrote: He never had the eco for those tho, his only chance was Zest messing up. I think one of his hydra remaxes could've been Corruptors | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Captain Peabody
United States3126 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
On June 27 2021 04:37 Captain Peabody wrote: zest new pvz master Drunken Master. | ||
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany16008 Posts
Deserved loss for him | ||
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tantalus
69 Posts
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tigera6
3437 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
On June 27 2021 04:37 Charoisaur wrote: This Dark style doesn't seem like it should be working. Deserved loss for him I felt like Dark playstyle has becoming like Rogue these days. | ||
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
On June 27 2021 04:44 tigera6 wrote: Dark has played this PvZ style for almost a year, although he does mix in some Corruptors at times. Not sure what he finds superior with this style, although if you can hit all the spell (Fungal+Parasistic+Shroud) then a good engagement is possible, but its very hard to do all that. Microbial queens might be effective if Dark decided to all-in in midgame. | ||
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stilt
France2754 Posts
On June 27 2021 04:42 tantalus wrote: Serious question though, how is Zerg dealing with Skytoss usually? Does no one go corruptor anymore? Does it cost too much given Dark was on like, 55-60 drones the whole game? When they have a sufficient economy, the standart is to go corruptors yes with spellcasters and broodlord, sometimes ultra, it depends of the toss composition. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
I'm ok with any of the remaining players winning TSL7 at this point. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16008 Posts
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tigera6
3437 Posts
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
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JoeCool
Germany2520 Posts
On June 27 2021 05:04 Morbidius wrote: I think its a Trap win, Reynor might do it if he plays at his peak but I don't see Zest or Cure beating Trap in a BO7. I think Reynor has a decent chance. He's probably the best Z in the world right now so... Either way, I think they'll deliver great games. | ||
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buzz_bender
445 Posts
I'm predicting a Reynor victory, given how strong he looked against Cure. It is a bit puzzling though because in the NeXT tournament, he didn't even get out of the group stage. I'm not sure what kind of Reynor we'll get tomorrow. | ||
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Moonerz
United States458 Posts
Now that he doesn't have the free late game win card in his arsenal he just really hasn't been impressive. His aggro side has just never developed like a Reynor or Dark for example. The premature goat conversation is hilarious in hindsight. He may have been the goat had he played in BL/Infestor era | ||
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SC-Shield
Bulgaria832 Posts
On June 27 2021 12:38 Moonerz wrote: Super late (just watched the vods) but imo the reason for Serrals decline is pretty obvious. Zerg was in a basically auto win state for a long time as long as Zerg didn't just throw in the early game. Serral was the best at this conservative playstyle -- aka scout, react and dont die win late game. Now that he doesn't have the free late game win card in his arsenal he just really hasn't been impressive. His aggro side has just never developed like a Reynor or Dark for example. The premature goat conversation is hilarious in hindsight. He may have been the goat had he played in BL/Infestor era You think? My own explanation is some players just lose interest after some time once they're on the top. It's not like BW where dominance was stable for whatever reason (e.g. FlaSh). I don't remember anyone in sc2 scene who has ruled for as long as FlaSh did in BW or Jaedong. And even they started to decline at some point. | ||
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Moonerz
United States458 Posts
On June 29 2021 07:28 SC-Shield wrote: You think? My own explanation is some players just lose interest after some time once they're on the top. It's not like BW where dominance was stable for whatever reason (e.g. FlaSh). I don't remember anyone in sc2 scene who has ruled for as long as FlaSh did in BW or Jaedong. And even they started to decline at some point. That's definitely a factor too. The longer you're on top the harder it is to keep the same fire. But I think a big part is the patches which influence the meta will naturally favor certain players, we've seen this sometimes with Stats too where he struggles to maintain his usual playstyle even though the toss meta shifted away from that. | ||
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SC-Shield
Bulgaria832 Posts
On June 29 2021 07:52 Moonerz wrote: That's definitely a factor too. The longer you're on top the harder it is to keep the same fire. But I think a big part is the patches which influence the meta will naturally favor certain players, we've seen this sometimes with Stats too where he struggles to maintain his usual playstyle even though the toss meta shifted away from that. Yeah, you may be right, it sounds reasonable at least. I used to watch and play sc2 more seriously too when I had more time, but not anymore. I guess it's the same with everyone, even pros despite that they have money incentive. | ||
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