EPTOn September 20 2020 04:37 DieuCure wrote:
What did I just read ? Probably have to clean my eyes.
What did I just read ? Probably have to clean my eyes.
You probably missed the in TvZ part. Of course he is nowhere near Maru overall
... Yet anyway [DH Masters 2020 Fall] Season Finals - Page 56
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MarianoSC2
Slovakia1855 Posts
You probably missed the in TvZ part. Of course he is nowhere near Maru overall ... Yet anyway | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16091 Posts
On September 20 2020 04:39 MarianoSC2 wrote: You probably missed the in TvZ part. Of course he is nowhere near Maru overall ... Yet anyway rewatch his super tournament series vs Dark. Clem is great but not quite peak Maru | ||
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AttackZerg
United States7591 Posts
On September 20 2020 04:39 hyuu wrote: Serral was not the first EU world class zerg, except if what you mean by wprld class is : "the best player in the world by far". We had for exemple Stephano in WOL/HotS area i share your excitement of watching Clem's army control, fantastic I am learning the history tbh. From what I had learned so far, it seemed Stephano was a great player but never in the top ten including koreans and Serral was the first clearly top 10 and later clearly 1 player. From Tyty's twitter comment about beating Reynor .... and then recent results, it seems Clem is now universally in the top 10 discussion. Am I wrong? | ||
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dbRic1203
Germany2655 Posts
On September 20 2020 04:40 Charoisaur wrote: rewatch his super tournament series vs Dark. Clem is great but not quite peak Maru I ve never seen spilts like those Clem can pull of. Somewhere is a clip, where he loses about 2 marines vs like 6 disruptors, while walking up a ramp (I think vs Showtime) Go watch that and then show me something more impressive from whoever you choose. Edit: Can t find the original clip, but it s in this compilation, it s actually 7 Disruptors and he loses 1 Marine and 1 Marauder to them  + Show Spoiler + | ||
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serendipitous
Canada195 Posts
On September 20 2020 04:43 AttackZerg wrote: I am learning the history tbh. From what I had learned so far, it seemed Stephano was a great player but never in the top ten including koreans and Serral was the first clearly top 10 and later clearly 1 player. From Tyty's twitter comment about beating Reynor .... and then recent results, it seems Clem is now universally in the top 10 discussion. Am I wrong? Stephano and Snute have both been world class at different times. | ||
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hyuu
163 Posts
On September 20 2020 04:40 Charoisaur wrote: rewatch his super tournament series vs Dark. Clem is great but not quite peak Maru To be fair i think he really proved something with his TvZ this tournament by winning over both Reynor and Serral (even if reynor won a serie back) he surely have one of the very best tvz in the world | ||
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MarianoSC2
Slovakia1855 Posts
On September 20 2020 04:40 Charoisaur wrote: rewatch his super tournament series vs Dark. Clem is great but not quite peak Maru Oh sure I am on the hype train a bit at the moment. While Maru has fallen off a bit with his injuries and when he played Reynor a couple of times in the last months he looked totally outclassed. I remember peak Maru Still think he is the best TvZ of all time. But Clem really reminds me of his with his playstyle while being better strategically which we all know was always Marus (probably only) weakness | ||
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
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stilt
France2755 Posts
On September 20 2020 04:43 AttackZerg wrote: I am learning the history tbh. From what I had learned so far, it seemed Stephano was a great player but never in the top ten including koreans and Serral was the first clearly top 10 and later clearly 1 player. From Tyty's twitter comment about beating Reynor .... and then recent results, it seems Clem is now universally in the top 10 discussion. Am I wrong? Ranking the foreign players was harder but Stephano was top 10 at time especially in zvp in which he was top 1-2 for quite some time. + he had a very large influence on the meta. Clem other mu are bit too shaky for this ranking I think. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On September 20 2020 04:43 AttackZerg wrote: I am learning the history tbh. From what I had learned so far, it seemed Stephano was a great player but never in the top ten including koreans and Serral was the first clearly top 10 and later clearly 1 player. From Tyty's twitter comment about beating Reynor .... and then recent results, it seems Clem is now universally in the top 10 discussion. Am I wrong? Stephano was probably a top 10 player in the world at some points especially around the time where he was pioneering roach maxes--a bit hard to say given the separation between the foreign and Korean scene. | ||
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hyuu
163 Posts
On September 20 2020 04:43 AttackZerg wrote: I am learning the history tbh. From what I had learned so far, it seemed Stephano was a great player but never in the top ten including koreans and Serral was the first clearly top 10 and later clearly 1 player. From Tyty's twitter comment about beating Reynor .... and then recent results, it seems Clem is now universally in the top 10 discussion. Am I wrong? It was a different context I was there when Stephano came out of nowhere at a time foreigner just did not win over koreans (well it was very rare at least) so every tournament in eu, us, with money to win had 3, 4 korean participating and they always got the top 3. Stephano did not only beat koreans but kept on winning tournaments convingsingly and had at one point an insane winrate even with korean he was never considered the best player of the world but i believe he was the best or one of the best zerg in the world at a time. Yes i was a fanboy, and i still am.. got damnit | ||
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AttackZerg
United States7591 Posts
Picking up this game so late, it is very hard to put the past into any meaningful context. | ||
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dbRic1203
Germany2655 Posts
On September 20 2020 04:51 royalroadweed wrote: Clem isn't winning any tournaments with Korean terrans in it. His TvT is his Achilles heel atm. Clem is the best TvZ Bio player, he isn t the best T (yet). Also I think he could profit from mixing it up a bit more as well. Just like Reynor is currently better as Serral, not because he has better late gem control, but because he has a bigger variety of playstile, he can execute at the highest level. If it s super late game macro, I d still see Serral as the scarier player, but overall it s defnatly Reynor between those 2 right now. | ||
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stilt
France2755 Posts
On September 20 2020 04:57 hyuu wrote: It was a different context I was there when Stephano came out of nowhere at a time foreigner just did not win over koreans (well it was very rare at least) so every tournament in eu, us, with money to win had 3, 4 korean participating and they always got the top 3. Stephano did not only beat koreans but kept on winning tournaments convingsingly and had at one point an insane winrate even with korean he was never considered the best player of the world but i believe he was the best or one of the best zerg in the world at a time. Yes i was a fanboy, and i still am.. got damnit I totally get you man, Stephano was so amazing ! | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
2010-2012 wasn't that bad for non koreans, remember IdrA, Huk, Naniwa, Nerchio,Mana, Thorzain... Stephano was the first player that koreans truly feared and he definitely was a top 5/top 10 player. | ||
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Slydie
2007 Posts
 Stim to the Win TournamentBaseTradeTvT TournamentNotable names from the past: Jinro, Thorzain, Lucifron, followed by Heromarine, DeMuslim, Sjow and...Liquid Bunny? Not that EU toss has been that much better. Lucifron was the most impressive imo, sadly he hit his peak at the wrong patch. I would say Clem consistently going toe to toe and winning vs the world's best in TvZ trumps them all. Very nice to see! | ||
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virpi
Germany3599 Posts
Clem is very good at bio TvZ, but he lacks depth in other matchups, especially in TvT. Given his talent, he should overcome his weaknesses soon. | ||
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stilt
France2755 Posts
On September 20 2020 05:19 Slydie wrote: EU Terran has never been that strong, it has even been so weak these tournaments took place: Stim to the Win TournamentBaseTradeTvT TournamentNotable names from the past: Jinro, Thorzain, Lucifron, followed by Heromarine, DeMuslim, Sjow and...Liquid Bunny? Not that EU toss has been that much better. Lucifron was the most impressive imo, sadly he hit his peak at the wrong patch. I would say Clem consistently going toe to toe and winning vs the world's best in TvZ trumps them all. Very nice to see! Naniwa, Mana, Lilbow, these 3 were waaay more impressive than any foreign T before Special. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On September 20 2020 04:27 Vindicare605 wrote: Agreed. If Serral fans wanted less criticism of him they could tone down their own praising language. Overhyping? You must be thinking of someone else. Listing up Serral's feats, admiring his undeniable skill and repelling the ridicolous and increasingly indefensible arguments korean elitists tried to pull out against him(and non korean Sc2) in the last three years are not overhyping. | ||
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
On September 20 2020 05:38 Xain0n wrote: Overhyping? You must be thinking of someone else. Listing up Serral's feats, admiring his undeniable skill and repelling the ridicolous and increasingly indefensible arguments korean elitists tried to pull out against him(and non korean Sc2) in the last three years are not overhyping. right Serral with his resume is a GOAT while Rogue with 3 world championship titles and 2 GSL's (and 9-0 in bo7's) is not a GOAT and losing to Inno because 'performed bad today', but Serral lost to Clem is 'whatever'. This is exactly why people talk so much crap about Serral when he loses, people are sick of Serral being held on a pedestal because of excess hyping and unreasonable allocations of merit especially when in recent times Zerg has been a broken race. Serral is not the only person to receive criticism, Dark has received them, Rogue has received them, sOs has received them (notice they are all World champions). Freaking Mvp, Zest, Inno, MC, they all get criticism. Everyone does, Serral shouldn't be immune to it, so stop being butthurt when he gets it. | ||
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