On July 08 2020 23:44 quilajino wrote: Wow that's a really strong group A
What to think about group C.. Weakest player in that group is Armani.. And that says a lot
I'd say it's clem but it's still stacked.
What a bait. Armani's not bad, but Clem quite a bit better overall. Just look at how they've performed against the online regulars like Zest, Cure, Solar.
On July 08 2020 23:44 quilajino wrote: Wow that's a really strong group A
What to think about group C.. Weakest player in that group is Armani.. And that says a lot
I'd say it's clem but it's still stacked.
What a bait. Armani's not bad, but Clem quite a bit better overall. Just look at how they've performed against the online regulars like Zest, Cure, Solar.
Well they both mostly lose but sometimes win. And it's not really great to compare that when Armani plays those people twice a week and Clem does once a month.
But Clem should have the edge still even though Armani had that great ESL Cup run the other week.
Group A: Inno, Reynor, Stats Group B: TY, Solar, soO/ Scarlett Group C: Serral, someone, someone, someone, someone, Armani (damn this is hard to call) Group D: Trap, Cure, Special
The lineup for this is so sick. Between GSL and DH Masters we're getting this too? Another one of these "we're so spoiled" tourneys we have seen lately.
On July 09 2020 20:15 sneakyfox wrote: The lineup for this is so sick. Between GSL and DH Masters we're getting this too? Another one of these "we're so spoiled" tourneys we have seen lately.
Lets hope we don't get too much conflict between this, Wardi Chest and ESL season
Watching Reynor just win games by sending half his army across the map instead of defending really doesn't appeal to me as a viewer. Especially when it works despite his opponents having army at home
On July 10 2020 03:21 AzAlexZ wrote: How do you beat Innovation, but lose to Dream? Either way wp Time!
Innovation and Time are on the same team and in fact Innovation mentors time. It could be that Time took the W this time because of player knowledge.
Dream also plays a very different style from Inno. He mainly plays mech in TvT, which as far as I know TIME struggles with (and Inno also went 0-3 against Dream recently).
Just as a heads up, I'm more or less restricted to streaming only 4 hours today. My hope is to do first five BO3, so up to and including Reynor vs INno and then head off, but it depends how long the matches are.
On July 10 2020 20:49 onPHYRE wrote: Dream tilted. No gg after inno won game 3 with the proxy reapers while he was doing fast expo into reactor factory.
Well he said in GSL, that he thinks he s better than Inno atm, so might be quite frustrated over that loss
On July 09 2020 23:10 digmouse wrote: Dream is 39-18 in series, 82-50 in map score. Mvp is 21-9 in series, 48-30 in map score. Maru 54-31 in series, 142-90 in maps.
These games showing why TvZ is usually the best match up to watch. Also, should take the time to do the opposite of balance whine and say TvZ balance is looking pretty good. Might need to fix the broodlord/Thor interaction though, that’s just sad lol
On July 10 2020 22:58 whiterabbit wrote: These games are nicely leading into Reynor vs Serral hype match later today and btw why doesn't Reynor just go to Korea and win one GSL at this point?
On July 10 2020 22:58 whiterabbit wrote: These games are nicely leading into Reynor vs Serral hype match later today and btw why doesn't Reynor just go to Korea and win one GSL at this point?
On July 10 2020 23:14 darklycid wrote: Man Stats almost brought it Back didn't expect that (reynor really took some Bad Bad Fights there, maybe Ping?)
Assuming they are on US, Stats ping will be worse than Reynors.
On NA West its worse for Reynor, on NA Central its worse for Stats. I could imagine, that they played one game on each one There is no US server, just saying
On July 10 2020 23:14 darklycid wrote: Man Stats almost brought it Back didn't expect that (reynor really took some Bad Bad Fights there, maybe Ping?)
Assuming they are on US, Stats ping will be worse than Reynors.
On NA West its worse for Reynor, on NA Central its worse for Stats. I could imagine, that they played one game on each one There is no US server, just saying
I remember someone posting latency numbers in a recent tournament thread and it is worse for Koreans no matter which NA server it is.
On July 10 2020 23:14 darklycid wrote: Man Stats almost brought it Back didn't expect that (reynor really took some Bad Bad Fights there, maybe Ping?)
Assuming they are on US, Stats ping will be worse than Reynors.
On NA West its worse for Reynor, on NA Central its worse for Stats. I could imagine, that they played one game on each one There is no US server, just saying
I remember someone posting latency numbers in a recent tournament thread and it is worse for Koreans no matter which NA server it is.
Didn t see that one. I remember that Special had better ping than Mana in TSL 5 qualifier on NA West though. Might be depending on where exactly in Europe you re located..
On July 10 2020 23:14 darklycid wrote: Man Stats almost brought it Back didn't expect that (reynor really took some Bad Bad Fights there, maybe Ping?)
Assuming they are on US, Stats ping will be worse than Reynors.
On NA West its worse for Reynor, on NA Central its worse for Stats. I could imagine, that they played one game on each one There is no US server, just saying
I remember someone posting latency numbers in a recent tournament thread and it is worse for Koreans no matter which NA server it is.
Didn t see that one. I remember that Special had better ping than Mana in TSL 5 qualifier on NA West though. Might be depending on where exactly in Europe you re located..
I was trying to find it but I'm not having any luck. I'm almost certain it was a TSL 5 related thread. I guess it's going to depend on so many different things even an average from EU to NA and KR to NA isn't really going to tell us who actually has the better ping so who knows. I guess Reynor might have had worse ping which could have caused some of those questionable fights.
On July 10 2020 23:14 darklycid wrote: Man Stats almost brought it Back didn't expect that (reynor really took some Bad Bad Fights there, maybe Ping?)
Assuming they are on US, Stats ping will be worse than Reynors.
On NA West its worse for Reynor, on NA Central its worse for Stats. I could imagine, that they played one game on each one There is no US server, just saying
I remember someone posting latency numbers in a recent tournament thread and it is worse for Koreans no matter which NA server it is.
Didn t see that one. I remember that Special had better ping than Mana in TSL 5 qualifier on NA West though. Might be depending on where exactly in Europe you re located..
I was trying to find it but I'm not having any luck. I'm almost certain it was a TSL 5 related thread. I guess it's going to depend on so many different things even an average from EU to NA and KR to NA isn't really going to tell us who actually has the better ping so who knows. I guess Reynor might have had worse ping which could have caused some of those questionable fights.
Eastern players like Skillous or Vanya might be way more disavantaged than the rest of Europe.
Xiaose on this game: "well that's how mech vs Zerg looks like these days." Observer Qzdqb, semi pro Zerg for LP, typed on screen: "you are absolutely right."
On July 10 2020 23:14 darklycid wrote: Man Stats almost brought it Back didn't expect that (reynor really took some Bad Bad Fights there, maybe Ping?)
Assuming they are on US, Stats ping will be worse than Reynors.
On NA West its worse for Reynor, on NA Central its worse for Stats. I could imagine, that they played one game on each one There is no US server, just saying
I remember someone posting latency numbers in a recent tournament thread and it is worse for Koreans no matter which NA server it is.
Didn t see that one. I remember that Special had better ping than Mana in TSL 5 qualifier on NA West though. Might be depending on where exactly in Europe you re located..
I was trying to find it but I'm not having any luck. I'm almost certain it was a TSL 5 related thread. I guess it's going to depend on so many different things even an average from EU to NA and KR to NA isn't really going to tell us who actually has the better ping so who knows. I guess Reynor might have had worse ping which could have caused some of those questionable fights.
Eastern players like Skillous or Vanya might be way more disavantaged than the rest of Europe.
Would it be better for them to play on the chinese server?
On July 10 2020 23:14 darklycid wrote: Man Stats almost brought it Back didn't expect that (reynor really took some Bad Bad Fights there, maybe Ping?)
Assuming they are on US, Stats ping will be worse than Reynors.
On NA West its worse for Reynor, on NA Central its worse for Stats. I could imagine, that they played one game on each one There is no US server, just saying
I remember someone posting latency numbers in a recent tournament thread and it is worse for Koreans no matter which NA server it is.
Didn t see that one. I remember that Special had better ping than Mana in TSL 5 qualifier on NA West though. Might be depending on where exactly in Europe you re located..
I was trying to find it but I'm not having any luck. I'm almost certain it was a TSL 5 related thread. I guess it's going to depend on so many different things even an average from EU to NA and KR to NA isn't really going to tell us who actually has the better ping so who knows. I guess Reynor might have had worse ping which could have caused some of those questionable fights.
Eastern players like Skillous or Vanya might be way more disavantaged than the rest of Europe.
Would it be better for them to play on the chinese server?
No idea but maybe, Happy was playing between 160/210 ping with a few spikes on netease (a chinese server)
On July 11 2020 00:26 stilt wrote: Innovation crushed Reynor 2-0 but then loses a game against namshar on submarines x)
It was brilliant. Inno was meant to be dead to the 1/1 roach ravager timing but then somehow turned it into a macro game and then he somehow lost the macro game.
On July 10 2020 23:14 darklycid wrote: Man Stats almost brought it Back didn't expect that (reynor really took some Bad Bad Fights there, maybe Ping?)
Assuming they are on US, Stats ping will be worse than Reynors.
On NA West its worse for Reynor, on NA Central its worse for Stats. I could imagine, that they played one game on each one There is no US server, just saying
I remember someone posting latency numbers in a recent tournament thread and it is worse for Koreans no matter which NA server it is.
Didn t see that one. I remember that Special had better ping than Mana in TSL 5 qualifier on NA West though. Might be depending on where exactly in Europe you re located..
I was trying to find it but I'm not having any luck. I'm almost certain it was a TSL 5 related thread. I guess it's going to depend on so many different things even an average from EU to NA and KR to NA isn't really going to tell us who actually has the better ping so who knows. I guess Reynor might have had worse ping which could have caused some of those questionable fights.
Eastern players like Skillous or Vanya might be way more disavantaged than the rest of Europe.
Would it be better for them to play on the chinese server?
On July 09 2020 16:08 Harris1st wrote: OMG this starts in 4 hours! HYYYYYYPUUUUU
Group A: Inno, Reynor, Stats Group B: TY, Solar, soO/ Scarlett Group C: Serral, someone, someone, someone, someone, Armani (damn this is hard to call) Group D: Trap, Cure, Special
On July 08 2020 23:44 quilajino wrote: Wow that's a really strong group A
What to think about group C.. Weakest player in that group is Armani.. And that says a lot
I'd say it's clem but it's still stacked.
What a bait. Armani's not bad, but Clem quite a bit better overall. Just look at how they've performed against the online regulars like Zest, Cure, Solar.
How’s it bait. Armani plays in Korea. 6.6k mmr on Korean ladder. Has entered code s.
Clem winning cross server games once in a while doesn’t supersede imo
On July 08 2020 23:44 quilajino wrote: Wow that's a really strong group A
What to think about group C.. Weakest player in that group is Armani.. And that says a lot
I'd say it's clem but it's still stacked.
What a bait. Armani's not bad, but Clem quite a bit better overall. Just look at how they've performed against the online regulars like Zest, Cure, Solar.
How’s it bait. Armani plays in Korea. 6.6k mmr on Korean ladder. Has entered code s.
Clem winning cross server games once in a while doesn’t supersede imo
Clem’s a hell of a talent that European players have hyped for quite some time. As yet unrealised potential in terms of eye-catching breakout performances but he’s definitely getting there.
Armani is in a similar boat only a good bit older, although he has done his military service.
Clem probably has a higher ceiling but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to pick either as the ‘weak’ player in such a group either.
On July 10 2020 22:58 whiterabbit wrote: These games are nicely leading into Reynor vs Serral hype match later today and btw why doesn't Reynor just go to Korea and win one GSL at this point?
probably because he can't, and it's honestly not worth, also he tried once already, lost in ro16
Reynor played in Code S before he could even compete in WCS; he would have his chances for sure. Reynor said he would have gone back to Korea but it's evidently not happening anytime soon due to COVID.
Armani should definitely be weaker than Clem, it's indeed a bait. Last season TOP qualified for Code S, it's not that hard and meaningful in 2020.
On July 10 2020 22:58 whiterabbit wrote: These games are nicely leading into Reynor vs Serral hype match later today and btw why doesn't Reynor just go to Korea and win one GSL at this point?
probably because he can't, and it's honestly not worth, also he tried once already, lost in ro16
He impoved insanly over the last 2 years. I d be suprise, if he didn t get at least top 8 in GSL, when he tries again, After Kr is oppened up again. I d love to see him in the Ro16 Group nominations :D Would be pretty hilariously I think Also would be nice to see, how high the Koreans value him.
Now that I think about it, the first GSL after Corona travel bans will probably be insane, as I expect a lot of foreigners go to Kr afterwards
On July 11 2020 09:10 Xain0n wrote: Reynor played in Code S before he could even compete in WCS; he would have his chances for sure. Reynor said he would have gone back to Korea but it's evidently not happening anytime soon due to COVID.
Armani should definitely be weaker than Clem, it's indeed a bait. Last season TOP qualified for Code S, it's not that hard and meaningful in 2020.
It's still 21k prize pool tour with bunch of big names, it's not some pocket change whocares tournament. For this it should be expected that all players actually try, it's unreasonable to think otherwise.
On July 12 2020 22:57 whiterabbit wrote: It's still 21k prize pool tour with bunch of big names, it's not some pocket change whocares tournament. For this it should be expected that all players actually try, it's unreasonable to think otherwise.
You could expect that but it's not happening. For instance I've followed TY long enough to be able to tell you that tournaments like this, 2 and 3 days before he has to play Code S, are never more than an afterthought.
Also I didn't realize this but for a 21k prize pool boy is the distribution awful and topheavy. 80% of the money reserved for one third of the players :S
TY: Embarrasses Dark 3-0 in a GSL quarterfinal with beautiful play and carefully crafted builds Also TY: Goes down to Bly 1-2 including a macro game where he was up 50 supply
On July 12 2020 23:07 Elentos wrote: Also I didn't realize this but for a 21k prize pool boy is the distribution awful and topheavy. 80% of the money reserved for one third of the players :S
Just your standard Chinese organised tournament I feel like, they allways make them super top heavy. Just think WESG 2019... In the original announcment, everyone who didn t get out of the groupstage got 0$ iIrc, so this is even the revisited, improved distribution...
I’ve also seen TY often underperform in tourneys days before GSL, but there’s some prestige with winning prem tourneys, even lesser ones like these, and I was hoping for a little stronger turn out!
I’ve less worry for his condition for DH Masters though. That seems like one well worth winning.
On July 13 2020 02:12 mikedupp wrote: on korean streams ive seen some players in 20k prize pool tournaments flat out say they dont care because they have GSL in a few days.
now I'm sure that isnt 100% true and maybe a way to cope if they play poorly.
Well what you kinda gotta see with a tournament with a prize distribution like this one is that advancing from Ro16 to Ro8 in GSL is worth more money than 4th place in Douyu Cup (which requires substantially more games also). And GSL is still the thing for the Korean players.
I don't think Scarlett or TY are going to be trying in their matches later. Shame really. Want to see some good games. Hopefully they still play some standard macro games since you can't reveal much by playing standard right?
On July 13 2020 12:47 geokilla wrote: I don't think Scarlett or TY are going to be trying in their matches later. Shame really. Want to see some good games. Hopefully they still play some standard macro games since you can't reveal much by playing standard right?
Approach to mid-late game tech and the way specific maps are played can still be exposed.
Either Rogue is in no mood to display his real zvp level prior to GSL groups, or he's really not into the game these days (quite characteristic of him)
EDIT: damn Parting has no shame whatsoever. What a badass.
On July 20 2020 20:55 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: Either Rogue is in no mood to display his real zvp level prior to GSL groups, or he's really not into the game these days (quite characteristic of him)
He won IEM time for him to not do anything anymore until global finals.
On July 20 2020 20:55 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: Either Rogue is in no mood to display his real zvp level prior to GSL groups, or he's really not into the game these days (quite characteristic of him)
He won IEM time for him to not do anything anymore until global finals.
Which he then wins in convincing fashion because no legendary Classic to stop him.
On July 20 2020 20:55 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: Either Rogue is in no mood to display his real zvp level prior to GSL groups, or he's really not into the game these days (quite characteristic of him)
He won IEM time for him to not do anything anymore until global finals.
Which he then wins in convincing fashion because no legendary Classic to stop him.
Yeah Rogue is like sOs of zerg. Just needs a nice goal in sight and he's there. Nothing is impossible for him, but don't you ever place your bets on him lol.
On July 20 2020 23:16 geokilla wrote: Serral vs Clem was pretty amazing
sure but i refuse to live in a world where in such group with 4 korean pros the only game that matters is between 2 EU dogs
We have to acknowledge the reality here that koreans simply dont give a sh... about these kind of online tournaments. They are attending for the practice using wonky test builds that sometimes work, sometimes not.
Whether its them being lazier than the Europeans, different mentality, practice regimen we can only speculate but aside from the biggest tournaments, I haven't seen the Koreans perform on the highest level and take the games seriously. Which is a big shame for us, viewers because we get hyped for these kind of groups and then the only good match is Serral vs Clem...
On July 20 2020 23:16 geokilla wrote: Serral vs Clem was pretty amazing
sure but i refuse to live in a world where in such group with 4 korean pros the only game that matters is between 2 EU dogs
We have to acknowledge the reality here that koreans simply dont give a sh... about these kind of online tournaments. They are attending for the practice using wonky test builds that sometimes work, sometimes not.
Whether its them being lazier than the Europeans, different mentality, practice regimen we can only speculate but aside from the biggest tournaments, I haven't seen the Koreans perform on the highest level and take the games seriously. Which is a big shame for us, viewers because we get hyped for these kind of groups and then the only good match is Serral vs Clem...
lol nice bait
The worlds best player continues to deliver I'd say
On July 20 2020 23:49 ytherik wrote: It's mind-boggling how consistent Serral is with his level of play. Tournament after torunmanet he keeps delivering.
Since 2018 the only truly embarrassing tournament for Serral was TSL5 (even when eliminated he looks strong, or is already deep), although I guess with Serral anything that isn't a win kinda feels embarrassing
On July 20 2020 23:16 geokilla wrote: Serral vs Clem was pretty amazing
sure but i refuse to live in a world where in such group with 4 korean pros the only game that matters is between 2 EU dogs
We have to acknowledge the reality here that koreans simply dont give a sh... about these kind of online tournaments. They are attending for the practice using wonky test builds that sometimes work, sometimes not.
Whether its them being lazier than the Europeans, different mentality, practice regimen we can only speculate but aside from the biggest tournaments, I haven't seen the Koreans perform on the highest level and take the games seriously. Which is a big shame for us, viewers because we get hyped for these kind of groups and then the only good match is Serral vs Clem...
lol nice bait
The worlds best player continues to deliver I'd say
Truth is bait? The fact that Koreans are performing considerably worse on smaller events than in GSL/IEM/Blizzcon surely is undeniable right?
As I am saying not sure why that is and it kind of pisses me off but what can we do. Serral is truly special in this with his godlike consistency across all the events he attends, I only with the koreans had the same level of tenacity and winners mindset.
I mean just look at the last game of Rogue vs Clem. Rogue didnt even try, it was a wonky strategy that any better terran would punish so hard and win with the first push. Made for a good game in the end, but hardly a solid display...
On July 20 2020 23:16 geokilla wrote: Serral vs Clem was pretty amazing
sure but i refuse to live in a world where in such group with 4 korean pros the only game that matters is between 2 EU dogs
We have to acknowledge the reality here that koreans simply dont give a sh... about these kind of online tournaments. They are attending for the practice using wonky test builds that sometimes work, sometimes not.
Whether its them being lazier than the Europeans, different mentality, practice regimen we can only speculate but aside from the biggest tournaments, I haven't seen the Koreans perform on the highest level and take the games seriously. Which is a big shame for us, viewers because we get hyped for these kind of groups and then the only good match is Serral vs Clem...
lol nice bait
The worlds best player continues to deliver I'd say
The fact that Koreans are performing considerably worse on smaller events than in GSL/IEM/Blizzcon surely is undeniable right?
When opinion gets labeled as "undeniable fact" and "truth"...if I were feeling humorous, I'd imagine this were a CNN reporter who happens to be into SC2.
On July 20 2020 23:16 geokilla wrote: Serral vs Clem was pretty amazing
sure but i refuse to live in a world where in such group with 4 korean pros the only game that matters is between 2 EU dogs
We have to acknowledge the reality here that koreans simply dont give a sh... about these kind of online tournaments. They are attending for the practice using wonky test builds that sometimes work, sometimes not.
Whether its them being lazier than the Europeans, different mentality, practice regimen we can only speculate but aside from the biggest tournaments, I haven't seen the Koreans perform on the highest level and take the games seriously. Which is a big shame for us, viewers because we get hyped for these kind of groups and then the only good match is Serral vs Clem...
lol nice bait
The worlds best player continues to deliver I'd say
The fact that Koreans are performing considerably worse on smaller events than in GSL/IEM/Blizzcon surely is undeniable right?
When opinion gets labeled as "undeniable fact" and "truth"...if I were feeling humorous, I'd imagine this were a CNN reporter who happens to be into SC2.
I wouldn't say this is an deniable fact and truth, but it is known in sports, not just e-sports in general, that players never give it their 100% unless it counts. Just look at LeBron James if you watch NBA. He's usually coasting, going at the game at like probably 70% to 80% of his max potential.
Nothing wrong with this though. Players want to save builds or hide their strengths and weaknesses.
On July 20 2020 23:16 geokilla wrote: Serral vs Clem was pretty amazing
sure but i refuse to live in a world where in such group with 4 korean pros the only game that matters is between 2 EU dogs
We have to acknowledge the reality here that koreans simply dont give a sh... about these kind of online tournaments. They are attending for the practice using wonky test builds that sometimes work, sometimes not.
Whether its them being lazier than the Europeans, different mentality, practice regimen we can only speculate but aside from the biggest tournaments, I haven't seen the Koreans perform on the highest level and take the games seriously. Which is a big shame for us, viewers because we get hyped for these kind of groups and then the only good match is Serral vs Clem...
lol nice bait
The worlds best player continues to deliver I'd say
The fact that Koreans are performing considerably worse on smaller events than in GSL/IEM/Blizzcon surely is undeniable right?
When opinion gets labeled as "undeniable fact" and "truth"...if I were feeling humorous, I'd imagine this were a CNN reporter who happens to be into SC2.
I wouldn't say this is an deniable fact and truth, but it is known in sports, not just e-sports in general, that players never give it their 100% unless it counts. Just look at LeBron James if you watch NBA. He's usually coasting, going at the game at like probably 70% to 80% of his max potential.
Nothing wrong with this though. Players want to save builds or hide their strengths and weaknesses.
Were those KR protosses also hiding builds vs him in GSL v TW 2019, when Serral 3-1 all of them? Why would Trap hide builds that far into the tournament, where he could win 4k USD more and a premier win over a player whom every Korean would covet a win against, just to have a somewhat better chance at advancing into the highly overrated GSL tournament, where it's far from certain he would even make it out of his group?
On July 20 2020 23:16 geokilla wrote: Serral vs Clem was pretty amazing
sure but i refuse to live in a world where in such group with 4 korean pros the only game that matters is between 2 EU dogs
We have to acknowledge the reality here that koreans simply dont give a sh... about these kind of online tournaments. They are attending for the practice using wonky test builds that sometimes work, sometimes not.
Whether its them being lazier than the Europeans, different mentality, practice regimen we can only speculate but aside from the biggest tournaments, I haven't seen the Koreans perform on the highest level and take the games seriously. Which is a big shame for us, viewers because we get hyped for these kind of groups and then the only good match is Serral vs Clem...
lol nice bait
The worlds best player continues to deliver I'd say
The fact that Koreans are performing considerably worse on smaller events than in GSL/IEM/Blizzcon surely is undeniable right?
When opinion gets labeled as "undeniable fact" and "truth"...if I were feeling humorous, I'd imagine this were a CNN reporter who happens to be into SC2.
I wouldn't say this is an deniable fact and truth, but it is known in sports, not just e-sports in general, that players never give it their 100% unless it counts. Just look at LeBron James if you watch NBA. He's usually coasting, going at the game at like probably 70% to 80% of his max potential.
Nothing wrong with this though. Players want to save builds or hide their strengths and weaknesses.
Well, there are still some variety in the standart play. I don't think the comparaison is very fair considering Lebron is focusing on the nba playoff and he is paid for it while the money gained by Korean players depend largely from tournaments.
I mean even if Koreans couldn’t be arsed playing for money, tournament wins, Korean Starcraft pride etc, is Serral really sweating every tournament he enters?
Hell I remember the common consensus for years was SC2 was too volatile compared to see anything like this consistency unless a skill gap was huge (say Mvp going to MLGs early on).
Smartly played by Clem starving out Zest. Although the Korean could of read the game a bit better. He must of thought Clem was much more all in only trying to get his 4th base up 15 min in the game
On July 20 2020 23:16 geokilla wrote: Serral vs Clem was pretty amazing
sure but i refuse to live in a world where in such group with 4 korean pros the only game that matters is between 2 EU dogs
We have to acknowledge the reality here that koreans simply dont give a sh... about these kind of online tournaments. They are attending for the practice using wonky test builds that sometimes work, sometimes not.
Whether its them being lazier than the Europeans, different mentality, practice regimen we can only speculate but aside from the biggest tournaments, I haven't seen the Koreans perform on the highest level and take the games seriously. Which is a big shame for us, viewers because we get hyped for these kind of groups and then the only good match is Serral vs Clem...
lol nice bait
The worlds best player continues to deliver I'd say
The fact that Koreans are performing considerably worse on smaller events than in GSL/IEM/Blizzcon surely is undeniable right?
When opinion gets labeled as "undeniable fact" and "truth"...if I were feeling humorous, I'd imagine this were a CNN reporter who happens to be into SC2.
I wouldn't say this is an deniable fact and truth, but it is known in sports, not just e-sports in general, that players never give it their 100% unless it counts. Just look at LeBron James if you watch NBA. He's usually coasting, going at the game at like probably 70% to 80% of his max potential.
Nothing wrong with this though. Players want to save builds or hide their strengths and weaknesses.
Were those KR protosses also hiding builds vs him in GSL v TW 2019, when Serral 3-1 all of them? Why would Trap hide builds that far into the tournament, where he could win 4k USD more and a premier win over a player whom every Korean would covet a win against, just to have a somewhat better chance at advancing into the highly overrated GSL tournament, where it's far from certain he would even make it out of his group?
I was with you until the "overrated GSL tournament" part
On July 20 2020 23:16 geokilla wrote: Serral vs Clem was pretty amazing
sure but i refuse to live in a world where in such group with 4 korean pros the only game that matters is between 2 EU dogs
We have to acknowledge the reality here that koreans simply dont give a sh... about these kind of online tournaments. They are attending for the practice using wonky test builds that sometimes work, sometimes not.
Whether its them being lazier than the Europeans, different mentality, practice regimen we can only speculate but aside from the biggest tournaments, I haven't seen the Koreans perform on the highest level and take the games seriously. Which is a big shame for us, viewers because we get hyped for these kind of groups and then the only good match is Serral vs Clem...
lol nice bait
The worlds best player continues to deliver I'd say
The fact that Koreans are performing considerably worse on smaller events than in GSL/IEM/Blizzcon surely is undeniable right?
When opinion gets labeled as "undeniable fact" and "truth"...if I were feeling humorous, I'd imagine this were a CNN reporter who happens to be into SC2.
I wouldn't say this is an deniable fact and truth, but it is known in sports, not just e-sports in general, that players never give it their 100% unless it counts. Just look at LeBron James if you watch NBA. He's usually coasting, going at the game at like probably 70% to 80% of his max potential.
Nothing wrong with this though. Players want to save builds or hide their strengths and weaknesses.
Were those KR protosses also hiding builds vs him in GSL v TW 2019, when Serral 3-1 all of them? Why would Trap hide builds that far into the tournament, where he could win 4k USD more and a premier win over a player whom every Korean would covet a win against, just to have a somewhat better chance at advancing into the highly overrated GSL tournament, where it's far from certain he would even make it out of his group?
So why those overrated GSL players won the IEMs and Blizzcons and Serral was able to win only 1?
On July 21 2020 22:07 Oukka wrote: Clem getting a lot of mileage out of these ghosts. Is this typical now in later TvZ? I've not seen a lot of games playing out like this one
yes, is expected.
Edit: Solar pioneer the style in GSL and Terrans use ghosts to deal with it since the beginning
On July 20 2020 23:16 geokilla wrote: Serral vs Clem was pretty amazing
sure but i refuse to live in a world where in such group with 4 korean pros the only game that matters is between 2 EU dogs
We have to acknowledge the reality here that koreans simply dont give a sh... about these kind of online tournaments. They are attending for the practice using wonky test builds that sometimes work, sometimes not.
Whether its them being lazier than the Europeans, different mentality, practice regimen we can only speculate but aside from the biggest tournaments, I haven't seen the Koreans perform on the highest level and take the games seriously. Which is a big shame for us, viewers because we get hyped for these kind of groups and then the only good match is Serral vs Clem...
lol nice bait
The worlds best player continues to deliver I'd say
The fact that Koreans are performing considerably worse on smaller events than in GSL/IEM/Blizzcon surely is undeniable right?
When opinion gets labeled as "undeniable fact" and "truth"...if I were feeling humorous, I'd imagine this were a CNN reporter who happens to be into SC2.
I wouldn't say this is an deniable fact and truth, but it is known in sports, not just e-sports in general, that players never give it their 100% unless it counts. Just look at LeBron James if you watch NBA. He's usually coasting, going at the game at like probably 70% to 80% of his max potential.
Nothing wrong with this though. Players want to save builds or hide their strengths and weaknesses.
Were those KR protosses also hiding builds vs him in GSL v TW 2019, when Serral 3-1 all of them? Why would Trap hide builds that far into the tournament, where he could win 4k USD more and a premier win over a player whom every Korean would covet a win against, just to have a somewhat better chance at advancing into the highly overrated GSL tournament, where it's far from certain he would even make it out of his group?
So why those overrated GSL players won the IEMs and Blizzcons and Serral was able to win only 1?
Where did I say anything about the players specifically? lol You get so defensive about GSL that you even read whatever you want to read. But on your point, we've been through this too many times already, and I won't repeat the same arguments. Keep believing the delusion that GSL is the apex of sc2.
On July 20 2020 23:16 geokilla wrote: Serral vs Clem was pretty amazing
sure but i refuse to live in a world where in such group with 4 korean pros the only game that matters is between 2 EU dogs
We have to acknowledge the reality here that koreans simply dont give a sh... about these kind of online tournaments. They are attending for the practice using wonky test builds that sometimes work, sometimes not.
Whether its them being lazier than the Europeans, different mentality, practice regimen we can only speculate but aside from the biggest tournaments, I haven't seen the Koreans perform on the highest level and take the games seriously. Which is a big shame for us, viewers because we get hyped for these kind of groups and then the only good match is Serral vs Clem...
lol nice bait
The worlds best player continues to deliver I'd say
The fact that Koreans are performing considerably worse on smaller events than in GSL/IEM/Blizzcon surely is undeniable right?
When opinion gets labeled as "undeniable fact" and "truth"...if I were feeling humorous, I'd imagine this were a CNN reporter who happens to be into SC2.
What? :D I mean surely you Serral fanboys cant be that far gone to even try to deny blatant facts. 1/10 of the biggest tournaments with biggest prize money was won by Serral. 9/10 by the Koreans. = 4xKatowice, 3xBlizzcon, 3xWESG (let that sink in) And that is what I am talking about. Why are the Koreans always performing a lot better on these big money tournaments than on smaller ones where Serral usually beats them and takes it all? It cant be a skill gap, because its obvious they can beat Serral, they just seem to lack tenacity and consistency to perform on the same level during the whole year on any tournament. Dont you think its a shame?
Serral taking another easy win against a korean, who did not really care about the tournament Edit: I like that Serral is being compared against a country. Seems fair
On July 20 2020 23:16 geokilla wrote: Serral vs Clem was pretty amazing
sure but i refuse to live in a world where in such group with 4 korean pros the only game that matters is between 2 EU dogs
We have to acknowledge the reality here that koreans simply dont give a sh... about these kind of online tournaments. They are attending for the practice using wonky test builds that sometimes work, sometimes not.
Whether its them being lazier than the Europeans, different mentality, practice regimen we can only speculate but aside from the biggest tournaments, I haven't seen the Koreans perform on the highest level and take the games seriously. Which is a big shame for us, viewers because we get hyped for these kind of groups and then the only good match is Serral vs Clem...
lol nice bait
The worlds best player continues to deliver I'd say
The fact that Koreans are performing considerably worse on smaller events than in GSL/IEM/Blizzcon surely is undeniable right?
When opinion gets labeled as "undeniable fact" and "truth"...if I were feeling humorous, I'd imagine this were a CNN reporter who happens to be into SC2.
What? :D I mean surely you Serral fanboys cant be that far gone to even try to deny blatant facts. 1/10 of the biggest tournaments with biggest prize money was won by Serral. 9/10 by the Koreans. = 4xKatowice, 3xBlizzcon, 3xWESG (let that sink in) And that is what I am talking about. Why are the Koreans always performing a lot better on these big money tournaments than on smaller ones where Serral usually beats them and takes it all? It cant be a skill gap, because its obvious they can beat Serral, they just seem to lack tenacity and consistency to perform on the same level during the whole year on any tournament. Dont you think its a shame?
4x Katowice 3x Blizzcon 3x WESG? Yes, those are the huge tournaments won by Koreans during the lifetime of Legacy of the Void. How about we only count big money tournaments since Serral was a world class player? I would argue middle of 2018, but if we must we can say start of 2018. If we include WESG as a "huge tournament" (which I don't think we should, it has prize money but generally a weaker player pool than most HSC), there have been 7 big tournaments in which Serral competed, of which Serral has won one, with Rogue being the only player to have won more than one. Considering that Serral has four semifinals, a runner up, and a round of eight in these high money tournaments, on top of his Blizzcon championship, he's definitely the second best performing at these huge tournaments over the time period he's been considered a world class player. This is accepting the logic of summarily dismissing all smaller tournaments, which is extremely silly.
Rogue just wanted to show the foreigners who is boss apparently and hide his ZvP builds Missed his game vs Armani so hard to tell if he played seriously there, was jet-lagged or pinged or something.
On July 21 2020 23:40 Xain0n wrote: A very meaningful victory now that Serral has advanced and Rogue is eliminated anyway. First time Rogue beats Serral in his whole career, also.
Don't forget that Serral was jetlagged and this tournament doesn't matter.
On July 21 2020 23:40 Xain0n wrote: A very meaningful victory now that Serral has advanced and Rogue is eliminated anyway. First time Rogue beats Serral in his whole career, also.
Don't forget that Serral was jetlagged and this tournament doesn't matter.
btw, Serral isn't through quite yet
He is, of course. Only one of Clem and PartinG can get to 3 wins.
On July 21 2020 23:40 Xain0n wrote: A very meaningful victory now that Serral has advanced and Rogue is eliminated anyway. First time Rogue beats Serral in his whole career, also.
On July 21 2020 23:40 Xain0n wrote: A very meaningful victory now that Serral has advanced and Rogue is eliminated anyway. First time Rogue beats Serral in his whole career, also.
Don't forget that Serral was jetlagged and this tournament doesn't matter.
btw, Serral isn't through quite yet
I mean he should be atleast top-3 considering he will be 3-2 6-6 max if he loses to parting and clem cant get 3-2
On July 21 2020 23:40 Xain0n wrote: A very meaningful victory now that Serral has advanced and Rogue is eliminated anyway. First time Rogue beats Serral in his whole career, also.
Rogue's domination started at the mid-2017 up to early 2018. Then, Serral took the remaining 2018 till now. Considering both historical achievements, Rogue has achieved more than Serral could do, 3x World Championship titles and 1 GSL championship title while Serral only got 1 World Championship title so far.
The differences between them were only consistency and motivation which Rogue lacked the most, making him vulnerable but unpredictable.
On July 21 2020 23:40 Xain0n wrote: A very meaningful victory now that Serral has advanced and Rogue is eliminated anyway. First time Rogue beats Serral in his whole career, also.
Rogue's domination started at the mid-2017 up to early 2018. Then, Serral took the remaining 2018 till now. Considering both historical achievements, Rogue has achieved more than Serral could do, 3x World Championship titles and 1 GSL championship title while Serral only got 1 World Championship title so far.
The differences between them was only consistency which Rogue lacked the most, making him vulnerable but unpredictable.
I mean I don't know how this is relevant to this thread, but ok.
On July 21 2020 23:40 Xain0n wrote: A very meaningful victory now that Serral has advanced and Rogue is eliminated anyway. First time Rogue beats Serral in his whole career, also.
Rogue's domination started at the mid-2017 up to early 2018. Then, Serral took the remaining 2018 till now. Considering both historical achievements, Rogue has achieved more than Serral could do, 3x World Championship titles and 1 GSL championship title while Serral only got 1 World Championship title so far.
The differences between them was only consistency which Rogue lacked the most, making him vulnerable but unpredictable.
I mean I don't know how this is relevant to this thread, but ok.
I would instead say that not only it's not relelvant to this thread, it's also not ok.
I mean he killed a alot of banes with the first few forcefields, but considering Serrals bank and his eco it didnt matter which is fair considering serral was just better throughout this match
On July 22 2020 00:37 ilax30 wrote: I mean he killed a alot of banes with the first few forcefields, but considering Serrals bank and his eco it didnt matter which is fair considering serral was just better throughout this match
Actually if PartinG got between Serral's bases the bank and eco wouldn't have mattered. Serral had to break PartinG's essentially with what he had. PartinG probably needed to surround his entire army with forcefields twice to not get blown up tho.
On July 22 2020 00:37 ilax30 wrote: I mean he killed a alot of banes with the first few forcefields, but considering Serrals bank and his eco it didnt matter which is fair considering serral was just better throughout this match
Serral strategy usually is mass banes either in vT or vP
On July 22 2020 00:37 ilax30 wrote: I mean he killed a alot of banes with the first few forcefields, but considering Serrals bank and his eco it didnt matter which is fair considering serral was just better throughout this match
Serral strategy usually is mass banes either in vT or vP
He should go for mass bane strats in ZvZ, it's not boring to watch there yet.
On July 21 2020 23:40 Xain0n wrote: A very meaningful victory now that Serral has advanced and Rogue is eliminated anyway. First time Rogue beats Serral in his whole career, also.
uhhh not true Rogue beat Serral in their first encounter
On July 21 2020 23:40 Xain0n wrote: A very meaningful victory now that Serral has advanced and Rogue is eliminated anyway. First time Rogue beats Serral in his whole career, also.
uhhh not true Rogue beat Serral in their first encounter
These guys are only counting Serrals career since he started winning a lot. Part of the Serral fanboy package
On July 21 2020 23:40 Xain0n wrote: A very meaningful victory now that Serral has advanced and Rogue is eliminated anyway. First time Rogue beats Serral in his whole career, also.
uhhh not true Rogue beat Serral in their first encounter
These guys are only counting Serrals career since he started winning a lot. Part of the Serral fanboy package
I think it's pretty common to not count BO1 victories honestly. If I'm talking about players histories I wouldn't really add BO1 results in to my "tally" of match scores etc
On July 21 2020 23:40 Xain0n wrote: A very meaningful victory now that Serral has advanced and Rogue is eliminated anyway. First time Rogue beats Serral in his whole career, also.
uhhh not true Rogue beat Serral in their first encounter
These guys are only counting Serrals career since he started winning a lot. Part of the Serral fanboy package
Yea let's also count Serral's games from 2014 when he was 5'1" and just started seeing hair in odd places, just so GSL fanboys can fulfill their fantasy narratives.
On July 21 2020 23:40 Xain0n wrote: A very meaningful victory now that Serral has advanced and Rogue is eliminated anyway. First time Rogue beats Serral in his whole career, also.
uhhh not true Rogue beat Serral in their first encounter
These guys are only counting Serrals career since he started winning a lot. Part of the Serral fanboy package
We're really descending into some rabid criticism if we're using Bo1s as a litmus test now, lol. I'd say most people don't count Bo1s for anything, much like how nobody really takes the Bo1 Maru and Serral last played seriously.
On July 21 2020 23:40 Xain0n wrote: A very meaningful victory now that Serral has advanced and Rogue is eliminated anyway. First time Rogue beats Serral in his whole career, also.
uhhh not true Rogue beat Serral in their first encounter
These guys are only counting Serrals career since he started winning a lot. Part of the Serral fanboy package
We're really descending into some rabid criticism if we're using Bo1s as a litmus test now, lol. I'd say most people don't count Bo1s for anything, much like how nobody really takes the Bo1 Maru and Serral last played seriously.
You haven't met the Serral fanboys on Reddit if you think nobody takes that Maru Serral bo1 seriously.
On July 21 2020 23:40 Xain0n wrote: A very meaningful victory now that Serral has advanced and Rogue is eliminated anyway. First time Rogue beats Serral in his whole career, also.
uhhh not true Rogue beat Serral in their first encounter
These guys are only counting Serrals career since he started winning a lot. Part of the Serral fanboy package
Yea let's also count Serral's games from 2014 when he was 5'1" and just started seeing hair in odd places, just so GSL fanboys can fulfill their fantasy narratives.
On July 21 2020 23:40 Xain0n wrote: A very meaningful victory now that Serral has advanced and Rogue is eliminated anyway. First time Rogue beats Serral in his whole career, also.
uhhh not true Rogue beat Serral in their first encounter
These guys are only counting Serrals career since he started winning a lot. Part of the Serral fanboy package
Yea let's also count Serral's games from 2014 when he was 5'1" and just started seeing hair in odd places, just so GSL fanboys can fulfill their fantasy narratives.
Maru won OSL in 2013 and they are the same age.
Maru was a full time pro gamer practicing internally with other full time pro gamers and living in Starcraft Mecca and Serral was just laddering in Europe.
I don’t really think the ecosystems are that comparable. Not to detract/praise either for how they dealt with that hand.
Just seems a bit nonsensical to chart progression purely by age considering the different environments.
The fun thing about all this is that I didn’t watch much sc2 lately, and people seemed to say Terran was strong. I was very skeptical and DH masters + this cup results / games are kind of a reality check.
On July 22 2020 16:27 Poopi wrote: The fun thing about all this is that I didn’t watch much sc2 lately, and people seemed to say Terran was strong. I was very skeptical and DH masters + this cup results / games are kind of a reality check.
I'd say Parting, TY and Serral may have broke in the top 10 by now
Yeah that was fun Rogue is top 5 for sure now. From those 3, I would say Serral and TY are very close or barely in the top 10 but Parting hasnt really won anything since, or?
I'd say Parting, TY and Serral may have broke in the top 10 by now
Yeah that was fun Rogue is top 5 for sure now. From those 3, I would say Serral and TY are very close or barely in the top 10 but Parting hasnt really won anything since, or?
I guessed some of them wont accept placing Rogue above Serral as they might argued that Rogue was not consistent as Serral, always lost on online tournaments or could not even break into lower tier brackets but somewhat ended up winning championship titles several times.
I'd say Parting, TY and Serral may have broke in the top 10 by now
Yeah that was fun Rogue is top 5 for sure now. From those 3, I would say Serral and TY are very close or barely in the top 10 but Parting hasnt really won anything since, or?
I guessed some of them wont accept placing Rogue above Serral as they might argued that Rogue was not consistent as Serral, always lost on online tournaments or could not even break into lower tier brackets but somewhat ended up winning championship titles several times.
That was the beauty of this. Doesn't matter if "some" don't like this or that. It is voted by the masses and if the masses say Rogue > Serral or Serral > Rogue then it is decided :D
I'd say Parting, TY and Serral may have broke in the top 10 by now
Yeah that was fun Rogue is top 5 for sure now. From those 3, I would say Serral and TY are very close or barely in the top 10 but Parting hasnt really won anything since, or?
Well, I'd argue Parting was close to top 10 already and has done way more than everyone above him with the exception of Inno and Maru (and maybe to a lesser degree Zest & Stats) So that should get him nibbling at top 10
I'd say Parting, TY and Serral may have broke in the top 10 by now
Yeah that was fun Rogue is top 5 for sure now. From those 3, I would say Serral and TY are very close or barely in the top 10 but Parting hasnt really won anything since, or?
I guessed some of them wont accept placing Rogue above Serral as they might argued that Rogue was not consistent as Serral, always lost on online tournaments or could not even break into lower tier brackets but somewhat ended up winning championship titles several times.
That was the beauty of this. Doesn't matter if "some" don't like this or that. It is voted by the masses and if the masses say Rogue > Serral or Serral > Rogue then it is decided :D
Well, yes and no. Some might be swayed by Xain0n's arguments that Serral has been the GOAT since 2018, and everybody else is wrong. And others might be swayed by MarianoSC2's arguments that the only SC2 players even worth talking about are Koreans, and everybody else is, at best, a one-day-fly.
I'd say Parting, TY and Serral may have broke in the top 10 by now
Yeah that was fun Rogue is top 5 for sure now. From those 3, I would say Serral and TY are very close or barely in the top 10 but Parting hasnt really won anything since, or?
I guessed some of them wont accept placing Rogue above Serral as they might argued that Rogue was not consistent as Serral, always lost on online tournaments or could not even break into lower tier brackets but somewhat ended up winning championship titles several times.
That was the beauty of this. Doesn't matter if "some" don't like this or that. It is voted by the masses and if the masses say Rogue > Serral or Serral > Rogue then it is decided :D
Well, yes and no. Some might be swayed by Xain0n's arguments that Serral has been the GOAT since 2018, and everybody else is wrong. And others might be swayed by MarianoSC2's arguments that the only SC2 players even worth talking about are Koreans, and everybody else is, at best, a one-day-fly.
I never said Serral was the GOAT in 2018, to be honest.
EPT
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Wardi | 
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Reynor 
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