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Canada8989 Posts
On March 21 2019 11:37 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
MaNa vs Dream is the first truly interesting decision imo. On one hand MaNa has great longetivity with good tournament results in both 2010 and 2018. Whereas Dream is the polar opposite. He (alongside Dark) was hyped up by the community as one of the big up-and-coming players in 2015, and he almost seemed to live up to those expectations during those few months. He played two of the best series in HotS against Life. And then... nothing.
I do wonder how consistency will be mesure against burst of greatness.
For exemple I was quite surprise to see how many vote Jinro got vs Snute (more than Ut and Lilbow vs SpeCial if we stay with foreigner) despite the fact the he was only trully great for like 3-4 month and then fell of, finishing his carrer with a win rate bellow 50%.
A similar question can be ask for Creator I think, does his 8 year carrer where a good 6 of them were pretty average detract or benefit his case for greatness?
Also people votting for Squirtle-Serral are Artosis and his alt.
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On March 21 2019 22:55 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2019 11:37 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
MaNa vs Dream is the first truly interesting decision imo. On one hand MaNa has great longetivity with good tournament results in both 2010 and 2018. Whereas Dream is the polar opposite. He (alongside Dark) was hyped up by the community as one of the big up-and-coming players in 2015, and he almost seemed to live up to those expectations during those few months. He played two of the best series in HotS against Life. And then... nothing.
I do wonder how consistency will be mesure against burst of greatness. For exemple I was quite surprise to see how many vote Jinro got vs Snute (more than Ut and Lilbow vs SpeCial if we stay with foreigner) despite the fact the he was only trully great for like 3-4 month and then fell of, finishing his carrer with a win rate bellow 50%. A similar question can be ask for Creator I think, does his 8 year carrer where a good 6 of them were pretty average detract or benefit his case for greatness? Also people votting for Squirtle-Serral are Artosis and his alt.
In regards to Creator and being "average" for many years, actually I believe holding a certain level of quality is impressive. I haven't looked much into this but I don't think there's been many years when he wasn't common RO 32 GSL. Sure he got knocked out but was among top 32 in korea, there's also this player Curious which was pretty damn awesome. We consider anything outside of RO16 GSL as average but actually staying in RO32 shape consistently for 8 years is pretty great in my book.
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On March 21 2019 22:55 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2019 11:37 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
MaNa vs Dream is the first truly interesting decision imo. On one hand MaNa has great longetivity with good tournament results in both 2010 and 2018. Whereas Dream is the polar opposite. He (alongside Dark) was hyped up by the community as one of the big up-and-coming players in 2015, and he almost seemed to live up to those expectations during those few months. He played two of the best series in HotS against Life. And then... nothing.
I do wonder how consistency will be mesure against burst of greatness. For exemple I was quite surprise to see how many vote Jinro got vs Snute (more than Ut and Lilbow vs SpeCial if we stay with foreigner) despite the fact the he was only trully great for like 3-4 month and then fell of, finishing his carrer with a win rate bellow 50%. A similar question can be ask for Creator I think, does his 8 year carrer where a good 6 of them were pretty average detract or benefit his case for greatness? Also people votting for Squirtle-Serral are Artosis and his alt.
Consistency is great but it isn't worth much in a discussion about the greatest if you don't have anything to your name. It can be an all kill, great showings against top players, or a brilliant tournament run. In MaNa vs Dream i voted for Dream because winning 2 BO7 against Life in 2015 is a enormous accomplishment, even Innovation who is probably the best TvZer of all time didn't manage to do that. 2 Starleague finals is also a thing for a select few. I don't see anything in Mana's career that comes close to that.
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On March 23 2019 04:22 Morbidius wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2019 22:55 Nakajin wrote:On March 21 2019 11:37 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
MaNa vs Dream is the first truly interesting decision imo. On one hand MaNa has great longetivity with good tournament results in both 2010 and 2018. Whereas Dream is the polar opposite. He (alongside Dark) was hyped up by the community as one of the big up-and-coming players in 2015, and he almost seemed to live up to those expectations during those few months. He played two of the best series in HotS against Life. And then... nothing.
I do wonder how consistency will be mesure against burst of greatness. For exemple I was quite surprise to see how many vote Jinro got vs Snute (more than Ut and Lilbow vs SpeCial if we stay with foreigner) despite the fact the he was only trully great for like 3-4 month and then fell of, finishing his carrer with a win rate bellow 50%. A similar question can be ask for Creator I think, does his 8 year carrer where a good 6 of them were pretty average detract or benefit his case for greatness? Also people votting for Squirtle-Serral are Artosis and his alt. Consistency is great but it isn't worth much in a discussion about the greatest if you don't have anything to your name. It can be an all kill, great showings against top players, or a brilliant tournament run. In MaNa vs Dream i voted for Dream because winning 2 BO7 against Life in 2015 is a enormous accomplishment, even Innovation who is probably the best TvZer of all time didn't manage to do that. 2 Starleague finals is also a thing for a select few. I don't see anything in Mana's career that comes close to that.
Agreed - I don't see what Mana has to compete with 2 Starlegaue finals. Shouldn't be close at all.
Cure vs Creator on the other hand is a tough decision. not sure who I'm going to vote for...
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Canada8989 Posts
Hey,
I notice that after checking this thread on phone my way back from work my votes were "erased" (I could vote again).
The situation was the same when I got home on the computer I voted for.
Does this happen to anyone else? If so I might try to make voting necessitate a TL account it may solve the problem, although I wasn't a fan of making voting more exclusive.
Also I voted again to be able to see the results but obviously I'm gonna subtracts them when counting the vote
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On March 23 2019 13:24 Nakajin wrote:
Hey,
I notice that after checking this thread on phone my way back from work my votes were "erased" (I could vote again).
The situation was the same when I got home on the computer I voted for.
Does this happen to anyone else? If so I might try to make voting necessitate a TL account it may solve the problem, although I wasn't a fan of making voting more exclusive.
(Also I voted again to be able to see the results but obviously I'm gonna subtracts them when counting the vote)
I think by default votes are tied to IP (not account), and residential IPs can often change depending on what your ISP does.
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Hmm i swear i voted on these 2 times already and it still lets me vote.
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That is one way to get more votes 
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Canada8989 Posts
Ya I will make it so you have to be logged in to vote, hopefully it solve the problem lol
2 vote be damned for now, let's just say that greatness is also about luck
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Canada8989 Posts
New groups!
We go for 4 at the time from now on.
The new WESG in INno take on a group mostly compose of early starcraft great as Curious and Losira try to make a case for being the greatest forgotten korean zerg in group 4 and 5.
And group 20 and 21 are headline with soO and Leenock as the battle between Heart and Showtime in group 21 may prove interesting.
Oh by the way HerO is of course Liquid HerO
Theses polls are closed
Poll: Who are the greatest players?You must be logged in to vote in this poll. ☐ INnovation & First
☐ INnovation & Rainbow
☐ INnovation & Naama
☐ First & Rainbow
☐ First & Naama
☐ Rainbow & Naama
Poll: Who are the greatest players?You must be logged in to vote in this poll. ☐ HerO & Curious
☐ HerO & Losira
☐ HerO & Kelazhur
☐ Curious & Losira
☐ Curious & Kelazhur
☐ Losira & Kelazhur
Poll: Who are the greatest players?You must be logged in to vote in this poll. ☐ Leenock & Trap
☐ Leenock & TT1
☐ Leenock and SuperNova
☐ Trap & TT1
☐ Trap & SuperNova
☐ TT1 & SuperNova
Poll: Who are the greatest players?You must be logged in to vote in this poll. ☐ soO & Showtime
☐ soO & Firecake
☐ soO & Heart
☐ Showtime & Heart
☐ Showtime & Firecake
☐ Firecake & Heart
Polls closes around 20h00 ET on Wednesday
*To avoid multi-vote you now need to be log in to TL to vote.
Theses polls are closed
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Canada8989 Posts
Not the most interesting of group as we have 2 pretty much done deal, Heart-Showtime and Losira-Curious could be close.
Also fun fact Losira was in the first ever GSL and won the second ever code A and has such as one of the longest running Korean sc2 career
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I had to vote for Naaama.
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Fuck me i accidentally voted for rainbow+first when i meant to vote Naama+Inno. Fix my mistake guys. Vote Naama through! First DH champion in sc2!
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Single-elim bracket later on will make the final classification be partially decided by bracket luck. Of course the winner won’t be affected.
Any chance to make it double-elim?
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On March 24 2019 20:01 Xamo wrote:
Single-elim bracket later on will make the final classification be partially decided by bracket luck. Of course the winner won’t be affected.
Any chance to make it double-elim?
Agreed. From top 32 onwards would be a good point i feel, could also help fix some imbalances in the seeding method, which i feel is flawed.
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Canada8989 Posts
On March 24 2019 21:09 Morbidius wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2019 20:01 Xamo wrote:
Single-elim bracket later on will make the final classification be partially decided by bracket luck. Of course the winner won’t be affected.
Any chance to make it double-elim? Agreed. From top 32 onwards would be a good point i feel, could also help fix some imbalances in the seeding method, which i feel is flawed.
Hum ro64 will be single elim for sure, I will think about it for the round of 32-16 but the nature of the tournament is super flawed anyway, having a double elim would help a bit but it would also make for a lot more polls and we already have a lot of them.
I also fear it detract for the "hype" factor of the upper bracket match, it's was suppose to be more of a fun thing at the end of the day, but maybe I'll see.
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Wow I can't believe Creator got through over NaDa
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On March 25 2019 02:17 Clazziquai10 wrote:
Wow I can't believe Creator got through over NaDa
Creator actually won two Premier tournaments in Sc2!
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Losira vs Curious is so hard !!!!
Also no love for Heart ???
He made a lot of MLG top 8 in 2012
Top 4 then 2nd WCS America
Showtime never had any kind of succes in non region lock event ...
But I never understood the hype around him so ....
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EPT
