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On February 12 2018 18:03 sharkie wrote:
so almost her whole career scarlett went macro games and Koreans cheesed or timing attacked her for wins which was "super intelligent move from the Koreans"
now she does the same and people call her a cheeser? haha
Maybe because the koreans were clearly capable of winning without such tactics? There's nothing wrong with cheesing or winning with cheese. But when almost all your actual wins come from it, people won't value you as highly
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On February 13 2018 02:41 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2018 18:03 sharkie wrote:
so almost her whole career scarlett went macro games and Koreans cheesed or timing attacked her for wins which was "super intelligent move from the Koreans"
now she does the same and people call her a cheeser? haha Maybe because the koreans were clearly capable of winning without such tactics? There's nothing wrong with cheesing or winning with cheese. But when almost all your actual wins come from it, people won't value you as highly
Scarlett has made her career beating Koreans in macro. It was the koreans who started and kept cheesing scarlett to avoid having macro games with her.
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On February 13 2018 02:41 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2018 18:03 sharkie wrote:
so almost her whole career scarlett went macro games and Koreans cheesed or timing attacked her for wins which was "super intelligent move from the Koreans"
now she does the same and people call her a cheeser? haha Maybe because the koreans were clearly capable of winning without such tactics? There's nothing wrong with cheesing or winning with cheese. But when almost all your actual wins come from it, people won't value you as highly
against alive and Zest (last game) she played straight up macro games so it`s not like she isn`t capable to beat them on that field and must cheesing everytime
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"Cheese" aka aggressive builds are my favourite games to watch... they are so exciting...
Let's not forget that Scarlett's micro was incredibly on point
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Lol at people playing down her results cus she cheesed. So what if she did? It's part of the game. Yeah I dislike getting cheesed too but it's part of the game. It's not like Blizzard is making you play macro games only.
Also in PvX games, sometimes Oracles get 10 SCV kills instead of 1 or 2 due to bad control. Is that cheesing when it's now accepted as a standard macro opening?
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the hell.. Cheese and Agrressive play are sooo much different type of play!
Id call cheese:
1. cannon rush..
2. proxy hatch.. or even proxy barracks
3. fast DT
4. to some extend 1 base all-in
everything else is pretty much just aggressive play that can win or not the game.
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On February 13 2018 02:50 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2018 02:41 Fango wrote:On February 12 2018 18:03 sharkie wrote:
so almost her whole career scarlett went macro games and Koreans cheesed or timing attacked her for wins which was "super intelligent move from the Koreans"
now she does the same and people call her a cheeser? haha Maybe because the koreans were clearly capable of winning without such tactics? There's nothing wrong with cheesing or winning with cheese. But when almost all your actual wins come from it, people won't value you as highly Scarlett has made her career beating Koreans in macro. It was the koreans who started and kept cheesing scarlett to avoid having macro games with her.
Right, koreans were afraid of playing Scarlett in a macro game...
Keep dreaming.
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On February 13 2018 03:33 geokilla wrote:
Lol at people playing down her results cus she cheesed. So what if she did? It's part of the game. Yeah I dislike getting cheesed too but it's part of the game. It's not like Blizzard is making you play macro games only.
Also in PvX games, sometimes Oracles get 10 SCV kills instead of 1 or 2 due to bad control. Is that cheesing when it's now accepted as a standard macro opening?
Nobody says she doesn't deserve to advance .She won so of course she does.
People are doubting if she has the skill to compete with the top players in the long run. Stealing a series win with cheese doesn't prove anything indicating that.
Remember Ragnarok cheesing out INnoVation and ByuN? Where is he now?
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On February 13 2018 04:06 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2018 03:33 geokilla wrote:
Lol at people playing down her results cus she cheesed. So what if she did? It's part of the game. Yeah I dislike getting cheesed too but it's part of the game. It's not like Blizzard is making you play macro games only.
Also in PvX games, sometimes Oracles get 10 SCV kills instead of 1 or 2 due to bad control. Is that cheesing when it's now accepted as a standard macro opening? Nobody says she doesn't deserve to advance .She won so of course she does. People are doubting if she has the skill to compete with the top players in the long run. Stealing a series win with cheese doesn't prove anything indicating that. Remember Ragnarok cheesing out INnoVation and ByuN? Where is he now?
Remember Byun cheesing out Dark with proxy reapers ? Where is he now ? With Ragnarok :D edit : and Innovation
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On February 13 2018 04:21 Tyrhanius wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2018 04:06 Charoisaur wrote:On February 13 2018 03:33 geokilla wrote:
Lol at people playing down her results cus she cheesed. So what if she did? It's part of the game. Yeah I dislike getting cheesed too but it's part of the game. It's not like Blizzard is making you play macro games only.
Also in PvX games, sometimes Oracles get 10 SCV kills instead of 1 or 2 due to bad control. Is that cheesing when it's now accepted as a standard macro opening? Nobody says she doesn't deserve to advance .She won so of course she does. People are doubting if she has the skill to compete with the top players in the long run. Stealing a series win with cheese doesn't prove anything indicating that. Remember Ragnarok cheesing out INnoVation and ByuN? Where is he now? Remember Byun cheesing out Dark with proxy reapers ? Where is he now ? With Ragnarok :D edit : and Innovation
Slam dunk 
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On February 13 2018 02:57 Mike L wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2018 02:41 Fango wrote:On February 12 2018 18:03 sharkie wrote:
so almost her whole career scarlett went macro games and Koreans cheesed or timing attacked her for wins which was "super intelligent move from the Koreans"
now she does the same and people call her a cheeser? haha Maybe because the koreans were clearly capable of winning without such tactics? There's nothing wrong with cheesing or winning with cheese. But when almost all your actual wins come from it, people won't value you as highly against alive and Zest (last game) she played straight up macro games so it`s not like she isn`t capable to beat them on that field and must cheesing everytime
She may have longer games but didn't crush with them. She lost 2-1 to aLive and went 1-1 against Zest in terms of macro games. Her actual wins were (for the majority) carried by cheesing.
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On February 13 2018 06:07 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2018 02:57 Mike L wrote:On February 13 2018 02:41 Fango wrote:On February 12 2018 18:03 sharkie wrote:
so almost her whole career scarlett went macro games and Koreans cheesed or timing attacked her for wins which was "super intelligent move from the Koreans"
now she does the same and people call her a cheeser? haha Maybe because the koreans were clearly capable of winning without such tactics? There's nothing wrong with cheesing or winning with cheese. But when almost all your actual wins come from it, people won't value you as highly against alive and Zest (last game) she played straight up macro games so it`s not like she isn`t capable to beat them on that field and must cheesing everytime She may have longer games but didn't crush with them. She lost 2-1 to aLive and went 1-1 against Zest in terms of macro games. Her actual wins were (for the majority) carried by cheesing.
why are you arguing with deluded fanboys...
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On February 13 2018 06:07 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2018 02:57 Mike L wrote:On February 13 2018 02:41 Fango wrote:On February 12 2018 18:03 sharkie wrote:
so almost her whole career scarlett went macro games and Koreans cheesed or timing attacked her for wins which was "super intelligent move from the Koreans"
now she does the same and people call her a cheeser? haha Maybe because the koreans were clearly capable of winning without such tactics? There's nothing wrong with cheesing or winning with cheese. But when almost all your actual wins come from it, people won't value you as highly against alive and Zest (last game) she played straight up macro games so it`s not like she isn`t capable to beat them on that field and must cheesing everytime She may have longer games but didn't crush with them. She lost 2-1 to aLive and went 1-1 against Zest in terms of macro games. Her actual wins were (for the majority) carried by cheesing.
early agression is also part of the game if you have better chances to beat your opponent without being involved into macro game - why wouldn`t use it? Mvp cheesed Squirtle in their final game and won GSL so should we blame him for that? beating someone in macro wouldn`t give you more credits from result and won`t make you better player than you actually are.
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If players can't stop early aggression then they deserve to lose just like Scarlett used to lose all the time to early aggression from Korean.
And even if players can stem the early aggression she has learned to keep up economy so she can still be ahead.
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I don't get why you guys are even arguing this stuff :p. Clearly Koreans have always been known to be able to play aggressive and draw out games because they are the shit. Anyways, Scarlett just chose to be more aggressive in her sets, which worked because well, they never expected it. Why would you not attribute that to her skill and say it isnt deserving is beyond me. You know she can play the long game, but now she is being more all around.
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When I first starting watching SC2 Scarlett was known as a huge macro player. Her creep spread and late strategies is where she made her living. As she progressed, most notably last year in GSL she was going for huge all in cheeses which is why she was stealing maps but not getting through Ro32. Now she seems to have found the nice balance between great early pressure along with being able to macro. Honestly similar things have been seen with other top Korean zergs. I think counting her out because of "cheese" is short sighted. I doubt she is the favourite v whoever comes out 2nd in Group B (that is a stacked group) but I wouldn't count her out either. She can play all kinds of games, her versatility is why she's been able to make it further now.
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Tons of Koreans cheese. Tons and tons. Innovation doesn't, usually, but that's actually one of his weaknesses.
Christ, remember the famous MMA vs MVP match where there were 4 cheeses back to back?
You play the player, not the game. If you see a player who you think will be put off balance, even tilted, by cheese, you cheese him. If Scarlett was incapable of playing longer games, or clearly had to rely on cheese as a crutch, then by all means shit talk her skill. There are plenty of players - Koreans included - who clearly suffer if they're forced into longer games. Scarlett isn't one of them. She's good at all aspects of the game.
She's not the best player in SC 2, but she's very good. The fact she's got this far into GSL is the proof of it. If she makes it all the way... hell, it'll make the next GSL more exciting, don't you think?
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Does anyone know why before every game in the GSL this season, the announcer says “Daybreak!”? Is this the name of the season? It seems odd to me. I wonder if I’m mishearing the word, and he’s actually saying something else.
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On February 16 2018 07:26 UncleVinny wrote:
Does anyone know why before every game in the GSL this season, the announcer says “Daybreak!”? Is this the name of the season? It seems odd to me. I wonder if I’m mishearing the word, and he’s actually saying something else.
I believe so. They'll probably give the other two seasons this year names that also match this theme. It is a bit weird, but weirdness of the sort is to be expected from Korean stuff. Check out their trailer with hashtags before every single word.
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On February 16 2018 07:33 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2018 07:26 UncleVinny wrote:
Does anyone know why before every game in the GSL this season, the announcer says “Daybreak!”? Is this the name of the season? It seems odd to me. I wonder if I’m mishearing the word, and he’s actually saying something else. I believe so. They'll probably give the other two seasons this year names that also match this theme. It is a bit weird, but weirdness of the sort is to be expected from Korean stuff. Check out their trailer with hashtags before every single word.
I can’t find a main website for the GSL, but it’d be cool to find it in print, even if it’s Korean. With the new achievement policy in Liquipedia, I’m motivated to make an update!
In the meantime, it makes me nostalgic for Daybreak, one of my favorite SC2 maps ever.
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EPT
