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On October 06 2015 21:04 GaliX wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2015 21:02 CptMarvel wrote:On October 06 2015 20:55 GaliX wrote:On October 06 2015 20:43 CptMarvel wrote:
That was an utterly terrible game.
I don't understand how Fantasy's BW mech skills have so poorly translated to SC2. The positioning and decision making in the last 25mins of this were god awful.
And I have nothing against HyuN but he really is a below-average player right now. sounds like you are the real pro gamer here... The classical "you gotta be able to do it to criticize it". Deep. well they both played really good in my opinion... surely they made both several misstakes but that was due to pressure I guess. calling Hyun below-average player is really just stupid...
I didn't mean below-average as in silver league level, I meant below the current progaming sphere average.
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On October 06 2015 21:22 OtherWorld wrote:
HyuN )':
Fall of the Roach
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On October 06 2015 21:13 WaylanderSC2_ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2015 20:50 Big J wrote:On October 06 2015 20:43 Thrillz wrote:On October 06 2015 20:40 robson1 wrote:On October 06 2015 20:39 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On October 06 2015 20:38 atrox_ wrote:On October 06 2015 20:37 yip.man wrote:
Cancer mech so disgusting I'd personally rather watch a game like that as opposed to say BL infestor or blink allins Mech on Terraform and BL/Infestor feel very very similar to me. BL/Infestor was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay worse. Just thank the lord everyday that this is over. It worked on every map. Against every race guys. It was objectively worse, no discussion. BL/Infestor is still the worst, worse than mechvz, blink allins, swarmhosts, skytoss, etc. More OP, was the goal in every game regardless of matchup. Numbers would suggest otherwise, but whatever. Who cares about numbers. Are you trolling? During the peak of BL Infestor, Zerg had the highest winning record for ELEVEN STRAIGHT MONTHS. A record that is still unmatched to this day. Remember foriegn players like Johnnyreccor, Goswser, and Vortix? Well, they were more than capable of beating Korean Terrans with broodlord/infestor. Zerg players ELO ratings SKYROCKETED in the months following the dawn of the brood lord infestor era (Queen range buff). It was the darkest time in SC2, there literally wasn't a counter to the playstyle and Zergs won the majority of premier tournaments for nearly a year. What do numbers say about the imbalance of mech in TvZ? That Terran has a 43% winrate against Zerg in proleague? That overall, Terran had a losing record against Zerg in August and September: winrates of 47.8% and 48.17% respectively? That Terran has won less than half as many premier tournaments as Zerg has in 2015? Please, enlighten me with your "numbers."
You are so spot on Waylander.
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On October 06 2015 21:13 WaylanderSC2_ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2015 20:50 Big J wrote:On October 06 2015 20:43 Thrillz wrote:On October 06 2015 20:40 robson1 wrote:On October 06 2015 20:39 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On October 06 2015 20:38 atrox_ wrote:On October 06 2015 20:37 yip.man wrote:
Cancer mech so disgusting I'd personally rather watch a game like that as opposed to say BL infestor or blink allins Mech on Terraform and BL/Infestor feel very very similar to me. BL/Infestor was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay worse. Just thank the lord everyday that this is over. It worked on every map. Against every race guys. It was objectively worse, no discussion. BL/Infestor is still the worst, worse than mechvz, blink allins, swarmhosts, skytoss, etc. More OP, was the goal in every game regardless of matchup. Numbers would suggest otherwise, but whatever. Who cares about numbers. Are you trolling? During the peak of BL Infestor, Zerg had the highest winning record for ELEVEN STRAIGHT MONTHS. A record that is still unmatched to this day. Remember foriegn players like Johnnyreccor, Goswser, and Vortix? Well, they were more than capable of beating Korean Terrans with broodlord/infestor. Zerg players ELO ratings SKYROCKETED in the months following the dawn of the brood lord infestor era (Queen range buff). It was the darkest time in SC2, there literally wasn't a counter to the playstyle and Zergs won the majority of premier tournaments for nearly a year. What do numbers say about the imbalance of mech in TvZ? That Terran has a 43% winrate against Zerg in proleague? That overall, Terran had a losing record against Zerg in August and September: winrates of 47.8% and 48.17% respectively? That Terran has won less than half as many premier tournaments as Zerg has in 2015? Please, enlighten me with your "numbers."
tying Vortix's success to BL/infestor is very inaccurate
kinda bummed out about HyuN losing, but lolmaps I guess
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On October 06 2015 22:11 Ej_ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2015 21:13 WaylanderSC2_ wrote:On October 06 2015 20:50 Big J wrote:On October 06 2015 20:43 Thrillz wrote:On October 06 2015 20:40 robson1 wrote:On October 06 2015 20:39 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On October 06 2015 20:38 atrox_ wrote:On October 06 2015 20:37 yip.man wrote:
Cancer mech so disgusting I'd personally rather watch a game like that as opposed to say BL infestor or blink allins Mech on Terraform and BL/Infestor feel very very similar to me. BL/Infestor was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay worse. Just thank the lord everyday that this is over. It worked on every map. Against every race guys. It was objectively worse, no discussion. BL/Infestor is still the worst, worse than mechvz, blink allins, swarmhosts, skytoss, etc. More OP, was the goal in every game regardless of matchup. Numbers would suggest otherwise, but whatever. Who cares about numbers. Are you trolling? During the peak of BL Infestor, Zerg had the highest winning record for ELEVEN STRAIGHT MONTHS. A record that is still unmatched to this day. Remember foriegn players like Johnnyreccor, Goswser, and Vortix? Well, they were more than capable of beating Korean Terrans with broodlord/infestor. Zerg players ELO ratings SKYROCKETED in the months following the dawn of the brood lord infestor era (Queen range buff). It was the darkest time in SC2, there literally wasn't a counter to the playstyle and Zergs won the majority of premier tournaments for nearly a year. What do numbers say about the imbalance of mech in TvZ? That Terran has a 43% winrate against Zerg in proleague? That overall, Terran had a losing record against Zerg in August and September: winrates of 47.8% and 48.17% respectively? That Terran has won less than half as many premier tournaments as Zerg has in 2015? Please, enlighten me with your "numbers." tying Vortix's success to BL/infestor is very inaccurate kinda bummed out about HyuN losing, but lolmaps I guess
http://aligulac.com/players/52-VortiX/
note rating after 1.4.3 patch.
Earnings before 1.4.3 patch: 5,150 euro
Earnings between 1.4.3 patch and HOTS release (period of 10 months): 44,750 euro
Earnings between Hots and December 2014 retirement (period of 20 months): 53,881 euro
He is not a patch zerg in the sense of many that thrived during BL/Infestor, as he experienced moderate success in HOTS, albeit at a far lower rate than in Wings of Liberty, but your tying Vortix's success to BL/infestor is very inaccurate assertion is simply untrue. The patch is responsible for his initial success and nearly 45% of his winnings.
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On October 06 2015 21:13 WaylanderSC2_ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2015 20:50 Big J wrote:On October 06 2015 20:43 Thrillz wrote:On October 06 2015 20:40 robson1 wrote:On October 06 2015 20:39 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On October 06 2015 20:38 atrox_ wrote:On October 06 2015 20:37 yip.man wrote:
Cancer mech so disgusting I'd personally rather watch a game like that as opposed to say BL infestor or blink allins Mech on Terraform and BL/Infestor feel very very similar to me. BL/Infestor was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay worse. Just thank the lord everyday that this is over. It worked on every map. Against every race guys. It was objectively worse, no discussion. BL/Infestor is still the worst, worse than mechvz, blink allins, swarmhosts, skytoss, etc. More OP, was the goal in every game regardless of matchup. Numbers would suggest otherwise, but whatever. Who cares about numbers. Are you trolling? During the peak of BL Infestor, Zerg had the highest winning record for ELEVEN STRAIGHT MONTHS. A record that is still unmatched to this day. Remember foriegn players like Johnnyreccor, Goswser, and Vortix? Well, they were more than capable of beating Korean Terrans with broodlord/infestor. Zerg players ELO ratings SKYROCKETED in the months following the dawn of the brood lord infestor era (Queen range buff). It was the darkest time in SC2, there literally wasn't a counter to the playstyle and Zergs won the majority of premier tournaments for nearly a year. What do numbers say about the imbalance of mech in TvZ? That Terran has a 43% winrate against Zerg in proleague? That overall, Terran had a losing record against Zerg in August and September: winrates of 47.8% and 48.17% respectively? That Terran has won less than half as many premier tournaments as Zerg has in 2015? Please, enlighten me with your "numbers."
Look at 2013-2014 blink era. Protoss won more tournaments and a higher percentage of tournaments than zerg in their 2012-13 bl/infestor era. In the 9month between Dear winning GSL and Pigbaby winning WCS AM Protoss won 17 of 24 tournaments (liquipedia count plus blizzcon 2013 and WCS S3 Global 2013 finals which aren't listed) including every WCS tournament except for one WCS AM, Blizzcon, and that superstacked 100k IEM WC. It was only repaired with a variety of patches from tons of MsC nerfs, hydralisk buff, and multiple WM buffs that basically more than doubled the damage of the mine against protoss.
In basically whatever time frame you take for the BL/Infestor (usually May12-Feb13 but it's not like the playstyle wasn't known before the queen patch, nor that the queen patch in May immidiatly made zerg win everything, MC vs Seed GSL finals says hello), zerg didn't even make 50% tournament wins. In fact, as imbalanced as it was in late 2012 and early 2013, early 2012 was extremely terran dominated and mid-late 2012 was the best era protoss ever had in Wings of Liberty. Tournamentwise 2012 was the most balanced year WoL ever had, though it was obviously split between terran domination early and Zerg domination late with a very high amount of protoss wins too.
What this has to do with Mech? Well nothing. You may want to reread what I responded to, because that post explicitely named BL/Infestor worse than the blink era. Where I stepped in and said that his statement is wrong numberswise. The rest of the story is told.
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Wasn't the counter to BL/Infestor TaeJa? ^_^
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can u guys stop discussing garbage xD
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On October 06 2015 22:58 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2015 21:13 WaylanderSC2_ wrote:On October 06 2015 20:50 Big J wrote:On October 06 2015 20:43 Thrillz wrote:On October 06 2015 20:40 robson1 wrote:On October 06 2015 20:39 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On October 06 2015 20:38 atrox_ wrote:On October 06 2015 20:37 yip.man wrote:
Cancer mech so disgusting I'd personally rather watch a game like that as opposed to say BL infestor or blink allins Mech on Terraform and BL/Infestor feel very very similar to me. BL/Infestor was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay worse. Just thank the lord everyday that this is over. It worked on every map. Against every race guys. It was objectively worse, no discussion. BL/Infestor is still the worst, worse than mechvz, blink allins, swarmhosts, skytoss, etc. More OP, was the goal in every game regardless of matchup. Numbers would suggest otherwise, but whatever. Who cares about numbers. Are you trolling? During the peak of BL Infestor, Zerg had the highest winning record for ELEVEN STRAIGHT MONTHS. A record that is still unmatched to this day. Remember foriegn players like Johnnyreccor, Goswser, and Vortix? Well, they were more than capable of beating Korean Terrans with broodlord/infestor. Zerg players ELO ratings SKYROCKETED in the months following the dawn of the brood lord infestor era (Queen range buff). It was the darkest time in SC2, there literally wasn't a counter to the playstyle and Zergs won the majority of premier tournaments for nearly a year. What do numbers say about the imbalance of mech in TvZ? That Terran has a 43% winrate against Zerg in proleague? That overall, Terran had a losing record against Zerg in August and September: winrates of 47.8% and 48.17% respectively? That Terran has won less than half as many premier tournaments as Zerg has in 2015? Please, enlighten me with your "numbers." Look at 2013-2014 blink era. Protoss won more tournaments and a higher percentage of tournaments than zerg in their 2012-13 bl/infestor era. In the 9month between Dear winning GSL and Pigbaby winning WCS AM Protoss won 17 of 24 tournaments (liquipedia count plus blizzcon 2013 and WCS S3 Global 2013 finals which aren't listed) including every WCS tournament except for one WCS AM, Blizzcon, and that superstacked 100k IEM WC. It was only repaired with a variety of patches from tons of MsC nerfs, hydralisk buff, and multiple WM buffs that basically more than doubled the damage of the mine against protoss. In basically whatever time frame you take for the BL/Infestor (usually May12-Feb13 but it's not like the playstyle wasn't known before the queen patch, nor that the queen patch in May immidiatly made zerg win everything, MC vs Seed GSL finals says hello), zerg didn't even make 50% tournament wins. In fact, as imbalanced as it was in late 2012 and early 2013, early 2012 was extremely terran dominated and mid-late 2012 was the best era protoss ever had in Wings of Liberty. Tournamentwise 2012 was the most balanced year WoL ever had, though it was obviously split between terran domination early and Zerg domination late with a very high amount of protoss wins too. What this has to do with Mech? Well nothing. You may want to reread what I responded to, because that post explicitely named BL/Infestor worse than the blink era. Where I stepped in and said that his statement is wrong numberswise. The rest of the story is told.
Metrics are used to fit narratives. I could argue blink era was much better, as in all of the tournaments you mentioned, the Ro4 was never full P, when it was full Z or close to full Z so many times in BLi and GomTvT. Also a lot more finals were non-mirror when compared to other periods of dominance.
See what I did there? Well, I did not much. Domination is domination, as far as I can tell. I don't really know why these ideas come back now, tho, as the game has arguably never been as fair as it is today.
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On October 07 2015 00:47 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2015 22:58 Big J wrote:On October 06 2015 21:13 WaylanderSC2_ wrote:On October 06 2015 20:50 Big J wrote:On October 06 2015 20:43 Thrillz wrote:On October 06 2015 20:40 robson1 wrote:On October 06 2015 20:39 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On October 06 2015 20:38 atrox_ wrote:On October 06 2015 20:37 yip.man wrote:
Cancer mech so disgusting I'd personally rather watch a game like that as opposed to say BL infestor or blink allins Mech on Terraform and BL/Infestor feel very very similar to me. BL/Infestor was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay worse. Just thank the lord everyday that this is over. It worked on every map. Against every race guys. It was objectively worse, no discussion. BL/Infestor is still the worst, worse than mechvz, blink allins, swarmhosts, skytoss, etc. More OP, was the goal in every game regardless of matchup. Numbers would suggest otherwise, but whatever. Who cares about numbers. Are you trolling? During the peak of BL Infestor, Zerg had the highest winning record for ELEVEN STRAIGHT MONTHS. A record that is still unmatched to this day. Remember foriegn players like Johnnyreccor, Goswser, and Vortix? Well, they were more than capable of beating Korean Terrans with broodlord/infestor. Zerg players ELO ratings SKYROCKETED in the months following the dawn of the brood lord infestor era (Queen range buff). It was the darkest time in SC2, there literally wasn't a counter to the playstyle and Zergs won the majority of premier tournaments for nearly a year. What do numbers say about the imbalance of mech in TvZ? That Terran has a 43% winrate against Zerg in proleague? That overall, Terran had a losing record against Zerg in August and September: winrates of 47.8% and 48.17% respectively? That Terran has won less than half as many premier tournaments as Zerg has in 2015? Please, enlighten me with your "numbers." Look at 2013-2014 blink era. Protoss won more tournaments and a higher percentage of tournaments than zerg in their 2012-13 bl/infestor era. In the 9month between Dear winning GSL and Pigbaby winning WCS AM Protoss won 17 of 24 tournaments (liquipedia count plus blizzcon 2013 and WCS S3 Global 2013 finals which aren't listed) including every WCS tournament except for one WCS AM, Blizzcon, and that superstacked 100k IEM WC. It was only repaired with a variety of patches from tons of MsC nerfs, hydralisk buff, and multiple WM buffs that basically more than doubled the damage of the mine against protoss. In basically whatever time frame you take for the BL/Infestor (usually May12-Feb13 but it's not like the playstyle wasn't known before the queen patch, nor that the queen patch in May immidiatly made zerg win everything, MC vs Seed GSL finals says hello), zerg didn't even make 50% tournament wins. In fact, as imbalanced as it was in late 2012 and early 2013, early 2012 was extremely terran dominated and mid-late 2012 was the best era protoss ever had in Wings of Liberty. Tournamentwise 2012 was the most balanced year WoL ever had, though it was obviously split between terran domination early and Zerg domination late with a very high amount of protoss wins too. What this has to do with Mech? Well nothing. You may want to reread what I responded to, because that post explicitely named BL/Infestor worse than the blink era. Where I stepped in and said that his statement is wrong numberswise. The rest of the story is told. Metrics are used to fit narratives. I could argue blink era was much better, as in all of the tournaments you mentioned, the Ro4 was never full P, when it was full Z or close to full Z so many times in BLi and GomTvT. Also a lot more finals were non-mirror when compared to other periods of dominance. See what I did there? Well, I did not much. Domination is domination, as far as I can tell. I don't really know why these ideas come back now, tho, as the game has arguably never been as fair as it is today.
No you can't. Because you present no metric. I presented numbers, you don't. Why? I don't know, maybe because the numbers to your arugments don't exist?! For example in BL/Inf we had 7 ZvZ finals, in the blink era it was 6 PvP finals. That's your "a lot more" metric that I have researched for you now. Do the others yourself and you may have a narrative. But don't talk out of your ass with nothing in your hands.
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On October 06 2015 23:42 Wintex wrote:
can u guys stop discussing garbage xD
Garbage is a wonderfull discussion subject
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United States97276 Posts
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Yes!! More Fantasy, please.
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I'm glad Fantasy won. If he does well at Blizzcon I'll be even happier.
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Will TL do a contest with blizzcon brackets prediction? I already know all results and want to win something 
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YES FANTASY! Crazy last game. Bit sloppy but fun to watch.
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On October 06 2015 21:13 WaylanderSC2_ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2015 20:50 Big J wrote:On October 06 2015 20:43 Thrillz wrote:On October 06 2015 20:40 robson1 wrote:On October 06 2015 20:39 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On October 06 2015 20:38 atrox_ wrote:On October 06 2015 20:37 yip.man wrote:
Cancer mech so disgusting I'd personally rather watch a game like that as opposed to say BL infestor or blink allins Mech on Terraform and BL/Infestor feel very very similar to me. BL/Infestor was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay worse. Just thank the lord everyday that this is over. It worked on every map. Against every race guys. It was objectively worse, no discussion. BL/Infestor is still the worst, worse than mechvz, blink allins, swarmhosts, skytoss, etc. More OP, was the goal in every game regardless of matchup. Numbers would suggest otherwise, but whatever. Who cares about numbers. Are you trolling? During the peak of BL Infestor, Zerg had the highest winning record for ELEVEN STRAIGHT MONTHS. A record that is still unmatched to this day. Remember foriegn players like Johnnyreccor, Goswser, and Vortix? Well, they were more than capable of beating Korean Terrans with broodlord/infestor. Zerg players ELO ratings SKYROCKETED in the months following the dawn of the brood lord infestor era (Queen range buff). It was the darkest time in SC2, there literally wasn't a counter to the playstyle and Zergs won the majority of premier tournaments for nearly a year. What do numbers say about the imbalance of mech in TvZ? That Terran has a 43% winrate against Zerg in proleague? That overall, Terran had a losing record against Zerg in August and September: winrates of 47.8% and 48.17% respectively? That Terran has won less than half as many premier tournaments as Zerg has in 2015? Please, enlighten me with your "numbers."
Vortix doesn't need bl/infestor to beat Korean terrans lol
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Game 5 on Terraform lol RIP Hyun. Still think herO would whoop either one of these guys no matter what happened here
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EPT
