★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
14%
★★★ - Good game (10)
71%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (2)
14%
14 total votes
Your vote: TLO vs Kelazhur Game 1?
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
Poll: TLO vs Kelazhur Game 2?
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (0)
0%
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
17%
★★★ - Good game (6)
50%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (3)
25%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (1)
8%
12 total votes
Your vote: TLO vs Kelazhur Game 2?
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
Poll: TLO vs Kelazhur Game 3?
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (0)
0%
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
★★★ - Good game (5)
63%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (2)
25%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (1)
13%
8 total votes
Your vote: TLO vs Kelazhur Game 3?
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
22%
★★★ - Good game (7)
78%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
9 total votes
Your vote: Polt vs Jim Game 1?
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
Poll: Polt vs Jim Game 2?
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (0)
0%
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
★★★ - Good game (0)
0%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (23)
72%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (9)
28%
32 total votes
Your vote: Polt vs Jim Game 2?
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
Poll: Polt vs Jim Game 3?
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (3)
27%
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (3)
27%
★★★ - Good game (5)
45%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
11 total votes
Your vote: Polt vs Jim Game 3?
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (5)
45%
★★★ - Good game (1)
9%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (3)
27%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (1)
9%
11 total votes
Your vote: TLO vs Jim Game 1?
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
Poll: TLO vs Jim Game 2?
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (1)
14%
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
14%
★★★ - Good game (3)
43%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (2)
29%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
7 total votes
Your vote: TLO vs Jim Game 2?
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
Poll: TLO vs Jim Game 3?
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (2)
40%
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
★★★ - Good game (3)
60%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
5 total votes
Your vote: TLO vs Jim Game 3?
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
29%
★★★ - Good game (4)
57%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
7 total votes
Your vote: Polt vs Kelazhur Game 1?
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
Poll: Polt vs Kelazhur Game 2?
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (0)
0%
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
★★★ - Good game (1)
9%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (8)
73%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (2)
18%
11 total votes
Your vote: Polt vs Kelazhur Game 2?
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
Poll: Polt vs Kelazhur Game 3?
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (1)
13%
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (4)
50%
★★★ - Good game (3)
38%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
8 total votes
Your vote: Polt vs Kelazhur Game 3?
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
13%
★★★ - Good game (5)
63%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (2)
25%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
8 total votes
Your vote: TLO vs Kelazhur Game 1?
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
Poll: TLO vs Kelazhur Game 2?
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (0)
0%
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (3)
25%
★★★ - Good game (7)
58%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (2)
17%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
12 total votes
Your vote: TLO vs Kelazhur Game 2?
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
Poll: TLO vs Kelazhur Game 3?
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (0)
0%
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (5)
45%
★★★ - Good game (4)
36%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (2)
18%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
11 total votes
Your vote: TLO vs Kelazhur Game 3?
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
(Vote): TLO and Kelazhur (Vote): TLO and Polt (Vote): TLO and Jim (Vote): Polt and Kelazhur (Vote): Polt and Jim (Vote): Jim and Kelazhur
Poll: ...but my heart says...
The Fan Favorites (TLO and Polt) (15)
47%
The Beast from the East (Polt and Jim) (7)
22%
Team Can't Think of Anything (TLO and Kelazhur) (3)
9%
The Aliens (TLO and Jim) (3)
9%
Team America (Polt and Kelazhur) (2)
6%
The Lesser Knowns (Jim and Kelazhur) (2)
6%
32 total votes
Your vote: ...but my heart says...
(Vote): Team Can't Think of Anything (TLO and Kelazhur) (Vote): The Fan Favorites (TLO and Polt) (Vote): The Aliens (TLO and Jim) (Vote): Team America (Polt and Kelazhur) (Vote): The Beast from the East (Polt and Jim) (Vote): The Lesser Knowns (Jim and Kelazhur)
Poll: When it comes to the time: Are the Europeans complaining too much?
When are they not? (26)
65%
Yes (6)
15%
Absolutely (6)
15%
Of course (2)
5%
40 total votes
Your vote: When it comes to the time: Are the Europeans complaining too much?
(Vote): Yes (Vote): Of course (Vote): Absolutely (Vote): When are they not?
(Sim ID #1226 vs #1229) Biggest Winners Snute went up by 8.07%, going from 29.11% to 37.17% ShoWTimE went up by 0.72%, going from 9.34% to 10.06% TRUE went up by 0.52%, going from 2.56% to 3.09% Kane went up by 0.52%, going from 1.63% to 2.15% Hurricane went up by 0.37%, going from 2.16% to 2.52% Solar went up by 0.34%, going from 41.54% to 41.88% XiGua went up by 0.31%, going from 0.52% to 0.83% + Show Spoiler [More Winners] +
Creator went up by 0.28%, going from 0.31% to 0.59% Super went up by 0.23%, going from 48.1% to 48.34% Rogue went up by 0.22%, going from 51.92% to 52.15% Soulkey went up by 0.19%, going from 24.94% to 25.14% MMA went up by 0.19%, going from 35.47% to 35.66% GuMiho went up by 0.18%, going from 31.13% to 31.32% Zest went up by 0.17%, going from 22.99% to 23.17% Lilbow went up by 0.16%, going from 1.38% to 1.54% Rain went up by 0.15%, going from 82.75% to 82.9% Nerchio went up by 0.15%, going from 1.11% to 1.26% Stats went up by 0.12%, going from 69.56% to 69.68% HyuN went up by 0.11%, going from 11.98% to 12.1% sOs went up by 0.11%, going from 17.59% to 17.7% Dream went up by 0.11%, going from 63.19% to 63.29% INnoVation went up by 0.11%, going from 64.68% to 64.79% Dear went up by 0.1%, going from 52.67% to 52.78% YoDa went up by 0.1%, going from 9.63% to 9.73% TY went up by 0.1%, going from 58.09% to 58.19%
Biggest Losers TaeJa went down by 5.65%, going from 35.4% to 29.75% PartinG went down by 3.75%, going from 74.08% to 70.33% uThermal went down by 2.01%, going from 3.37% to 1.37% TargA went down by 0.81%, going from 14.11% to 13.3% Happy went down by 0.54%, going from 14.94% to 14.4% Polt went down by 0.36%, going from 34.11% to 33.74% ForGG went down by 0.34%, going from 66.25% to 65.92% + Show Spoiler [More Losers] +
NaNiwa went down by 0.33%, going from 20.47% to 20.15% Heart went down by 0.32%, going from 1.04% to 0.71% Astrea went down by 0.28%, going from 0.44% to 0.16% MajOr went down by 0.16%, going from 20.54% to 20.38% Scarlett went down by 0.13%, going from 0.5% to 0.36% MaNa went down by 0.12%, going from 5.4% to 5.28%
Polt, TLO, Jim, and Kelazhurin in WCS Premier Season 1 round of 32. Polt is at 33.74% Blizzcon Chances. 73.96% of the time they win this match and their Blizzcon Chances go to 37.75%. 26.04% of the time they lose this match and their Blizzcon Chances go to 22.35%. Jim is at 4.9% Blizzcon Chances. 47.77% of the time they win this match and their Blizzcon Chances go to 7.24%. 52.23% of the time they lose this match and their Blizzcon Chances go to 2.76%. TLO is at 1.5% Blizzcon Chances. 53.1% of the time they win this match and their Blizzcon Chances go to 2.18%. 46.9% of the time they lose this match and their Blizzcon Chances go to 0.74%. Kelazhur is at 0.01% Blizzcon Chances. 25.16% of the time they win this match and their Blizzcon Chances go to 0.02%. 74.84% of the time they lose this match and their Blizzcon Chances go to 0.01%.
ForGG has a 16.81% chance to win ----going from 65.92% to 97.55% if they get 1st, or 76.24% if they get 2nd. Hydra has a 13.63% chance to win ----going from 51.03% to 92.75% if they get 1st, or 61.95% if they get 2nd. Snute has a 12.26% chance to win ----going from 37.17% to 90.16% if they get 1st, or 45.93% if they get 2nd. NaNiwa has a 7.11% chance to win ----going from 20.15% to 76.16% if they get 1st, or 29.82% if they get 2nd. Polt has a 7.1% chance to win ----going from 33.74% to 91.96% if they get 1st, or 49.78% if they get 2nd. + Show Spoiler [More Winning Chances] +
MajOr has a 5.54% chance to win ----going from 20.38% to 80.76% if they get 1st, or 33.33% if they get 2nd. Happy has a 4.67% chance to win ----going from 14.4% to 72.4% if they get 1st, or 24.79% if they get 2nd. TargA has a 4.48% chance to win ----going from 13.3% to 72.09% if they get 1st, or 23.18% if they get 2nd. ShoWTimE has a 3.97% chance to win ----going from 10.06% to 66.32% if they get 1st, or 18.16% if they get 2nd. Bunny has a 3.3% chance to win ----going from 10.71% to 70.58% if they get 1st, or 21.22% if they get 2nd. viOLet has a 2.78% chance to win ----going from 10.65% to 71.56% if they get 1st, or 22.09% if they get 2nd. PiG has a 2.74% chance to win ----going from 7.73% to 65.58% if they get 1st, or 16.27% if they get 2nd. MaNa has a 2.05% chance to win ----going from 5.28% to 58.78% if they get 1st, or 12.44% if they get 2nd. Jim has a 1.79% chance to win ----going from 4.9% to 61.64% if they get 1st, or 3.86% if they don't. Sen has a 1.71% chance to win ----going from 5.48% to 69.64% if they get 1st, or 14.06% if they get 2nd. HuK has a 1.55% chance to win ----going from 4.18% to 64.3% if they get 1st, or 3.23% if they don't. Serral has a 1.41% chance to win ----going from 2.89% to 51.75% if they get 1st, or 2.19% if they don't. iaguz has a 0.96% chance to win ----going from 1.61% to 45.62% if they get 1st, or 1.19% if they don't. Welmu has a 0.93% chance to win ----going from 1.57% to 44.67% if they get 1st, or 1.16% if they don't. TLO has a 0.84% chance to win ----going from 1.5% to 46.29% if they get 1st, or 1.12% if they don't. Kane has a 0.77% chance to win ----going from 2.15% to 52.91% if they get 1st, or 1.76% if they don't. MorroW has a 0.76% chance to win ----going from 1.61% to 47.6% if they get 1st, or 1.26% if they don't. XiGua has a 0.71% chance to win ----going from 0.83% to 39.55% if they get 1st, or 0.55% if they don't. Has has a 0.63% chance to win ----going from 1.27% to 47.18% if they get 1st, or 0.98% if they don't. puCK has a 0.52% chance to win ----going from 0.84% to 42.17% if they get 1st, or 0.63% if they don't. MacSed has a 0.37% chance to win ----going from 0.6% to 40.18% if they get 1st, or 0.45% if they don't. iAsonu has a 0.25% chance to win ----going from 0.47% to 38.63% if they get 1st, or 0.37% if they don't. Suppy has a 0.21% chance to win ----going from 0.32% to 35.13% if they get 1st, or 0.25% if they don't.
On February 16 2015 07:25 Darthsanta13 wrote: I like all of tlo, polt, and jim, but I really think it would be hilarious if "kelthuzad" swept this group 4-0.
If he advances, I really want him to give a shout-out to Naniwa in his interview.
I don't like how only some teams are getting name-checked in the introduction. TLO and Snute are always "representing Team Liquid", but uThermal was never "representing AT Gaming", and now Kelazhur isn't "representing Try Again".
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
14%
★★★ - Good game (10)
71%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (2)
14%
14 total votes
Your vote: TLO vs Kelazhur Game 1?
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
On February 16 2015 08:21 Circumstance wrote: "If you're good at 20 builds you're a good player, but if you're excellent at one build you're an excellent player" - Day[9] 2013 (2012?)
On February 16 2015 08:21 Circumstance wrote: "If you're good at 20 builds you're a good player, but if you're excellent at one build you're an excellent player" - Day[9] 2013 (2012?)
On February 16 2015 08:21 Circumstance wrote: "If you're good at 20 builds you're a good player, but if you're excellent at one build you're an excellent player" - Day[9] 2013 (2012?)
Ha ha ha since I basically know one build per match-up this sentence comforts me
On February 16 2015 08:21 Circumstance wrote: "If you're good at 20 builds you're a good player, but if you're excellent at one build you're an excellent player" - Day[9] 2013 (2012?)
On February 16 2015 08:21 Circumstance wrote: "If you're good at 20 builds you're a good player, but if you're excellent at one build you're an excellent player" - Day[9] 2013 (2012?) ActionJesuz 2010
ftfy.
Really thought TLO would see that one coming. Hope he wins this still.
On February 16 2015 08:21 Circumstance wrote: "If you're good at 20 builds you're a good player, but if you're excellent at one build you're an excellent player" - Day[9] 2013 (2012?)
I've played a lot of excellent Protoss players who are very good at proxy 2 gate then
On February 16 2015 08:21 Circumstance wrote: "If you're good at 20 builds you're a good player, but if you're excellent at one build you're an excellent player" - Day[9] 2013 (2012?)
On February 16 2015 08:21 Circumstance wrote: "If you're good at 20 builds you're a good player, but if you're excellent at one build you're an excellent player" - Day[9] 2013 (2012?)
On February 16 2015 08:21 Circumstance wrote: "If you're good at 20 builds you're a good player, but if you're excellent at one build you're an excellent player" - Day[9] 2013 (2012?)
imo this kind of falls apart once players get to top 8 and people have weeks to prepare for you and only you.
On February 16 2015 08:21 Circumstance wrote: "If you're good at 20 builds you're a good player, but if you're excellent at one build you're an excellent player" - Day[9] 2013 (2012?)
On February 16 2015 08:21 Circumstance wrote: "If you're good at 20 builds you're a good player, but if you're excellent at one build you're an excellent player" - Day[9] 2013 (2012?)
On February 16 2015 08:21 Circumstance wrote: "If you're good at 20 builds you're a good player, but if you're excellent at one build you're an excellent player" - Day[9] 2013 (2012?)
On February 16 2015 08:21 Circumstance wrote: "If you're good at 20 builds you're a good player, but if you're excellent at one build you're an excellent player" - Day[9] 2013 (2012?)
On February 16 2015 08:19 Deathstar wrote: TLO losing to this guy is not acceptable
I think you are underestimating Kelazhur a lot.
He did beat Catz 3-0 and Catz is on a high level right now. Pretty high GM on Korea and he did beat MMA and Heart, almost winning it for Root vs Axiom-Acer.
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
17%
★★★ - Good game (6)
50%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (3)
25%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (1)
8%
12 total votes
Your vote: TLO vs Kelazhur Game 2?
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
Poll: TLO vs Kelazhur Game 3?
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (0)
0%
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
★★★ - Good game (5)
63%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (2)
25%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (1)
13%
8 total votes
Your vote: TLO vs Kelazhur Game 3?
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
I mean, Khelazur didn't play badly in any way, but he wasn't like.. completely amazing. It felt like TLO just wasn't playing at some points. =/ Man, I really wanted TLO to advance.
On February 16 2015 08:39 DJHelium wrote: Not to diss the SC2 fan, but I'd prefer an interview with the winner
they do winner interviews with people who advanced, which i much prefer because they probably wanna focus on their next match and also they're not extremely insightful to hear 5 winner interviews
On February 16 2015 08:39 KingofdaHipHop wrote: damn after that series i really want like all of them to advance :|
you really still want tlo to advance after that?
that composition just reminds me of when you get tired of losing to biomine on ladder and say "hey, maybe if i have enough roaches, then maybe... like... no fuck i need banelings now. wow roaches are bad in engagements"
On February 16 2015 08:39 KingofdaHipHop wrote: damn after that series i really want like all of them to advance :|
you really still want tlo to advance after that?
that composition just reminds me of when you get tired of losing to biomine on ladder and say "hey, maybe if i have enough roaches, then maybe... like... no fuck i need banelings now. wow roaches are bad in engagements"
Yeah . If they meet again I'm sure TLO will use roaches in a more all-in way.
On February 16 2015 08:49 [PkF] Wire wrote: Oh I remember it "I'm no faceless korean I'm fucking INnoVation", that was something along those lines ! At a WCS finals maybe.
On February 16 2015 08:49 [PkF] Wire wrote: Oh I remember it "I'm no faceless korean I'm fucking INnoVation", that was something along those lines ! At a WCS finals maybe.
On February 16 2015 08:49 [PkF] Wire wrote: Oh I remember it "I'm no faceless korean I'm fucking INnoVation", that was something along those lines ! At a WCS finals maybe.
Such a smart play by polt there. He was sitting there with his bio outside Jim's third, and loaded up his medivacs to go for a drop. Instead he unloaded his medivacs, inuitively knowing Jim had an observer above his army, killed the observer, and then went for the drop in the main. GG
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
22%
★★★ - Good game (7)
78%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
9 total votes
Your vote: Polt vs Jim Game 1?
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
I think Rotti waaaay overestimates the potential of Jim's attack. Even with three zealots, that would have done nothing. Polt had stim seconds away from finishing and more than enough marines/marauders.
On February 16 2015 09:08 TheLordofAwesome wrote: If I were Jim, I would go for one proxy gateway because polt has been going for low ground cc first so often.
Except Deadwing and Inferno Pools lol.
If I were Jim, I would feel really unlucky my group has two Terrans in it.
On February 16 2015 09:12 KingofdaHipHop wrote: tl writing staff getting recognition for their sweatshop labor
I remember when someone posted in the recruitment thread saying that TL was exploiting their writers with false promises and broken dream while they did all the work.
On February 16 2015 09:12 KingofdaHipHop wrote: tl writing staff getting recognition for their sweatshop labor
I remember when someone posted in the recruitment thread saying that TL was exploiting their writers with false promises and broken dream while they did all the work.
On February 16 2015 09:12 KingofdaHipHop wrote: tl writing staff getting recognition for their sweatshop labor
I remember when someone posted in the recruitment thread saying that TL was exploiting their writers with false promises and broken dream while they did all the work.
He was quite poetic too, such love for freedom.
Did the mods see it that way?
i dont blame them he was being a dick about people being nice people and volunteering contributaion
yeah, thats what im taking about, jim won the engagement, cool who cares? he couldn't do anything, polt has a better ecconomy and soon they will be equal again in supply.
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
★★★ - Good game (0)
0%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (23)
72%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (9)
28%
32 total votes
Your vote: Polt vs Jim Game 2?
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
★★★ - Good game (0)
0%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (23)
72%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (9)
28%
32 total votes
Your vote: Polt vs Jim Game 2?
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
Deadwing was Jim's map with that style -Polt could have done a lot better I think though. Inferno Pools should be quite good for Polt if he plays aggressive, the third is just so far away.
On February 16 2015 09:35 KingofdaHipHop wrote: the only shame is that we didn't get battle cruisers or ravens with that corvid reactor/yamato cannon research
The only shame is that Polt is not a kind of player that can effectively micro viking-ghost-raven-BC-thor-MMM army. To be honest, such player does not exist, but still.
On February 16 2015 09:35 KingofdaHipHop wrote: the only shame is that we didn't get battle cruisers or ravens with that corvid reactor/yamato cannon research
Polt had a fair number of Ravens, they just didn't get involved in the fight until Jim's Tempests were knocking on his door.
On February 16 2015 09:35 KingofdaHipHop wrote: the only shame is that we didn't get battle cruisers or ravens with that corvid reactor/yamato cannon research
The only shame is that Polt is not a kind of player that can effectively micro viking-ghost-raven-BC-thor-MMM army. To be honest, such player does not exist, but still.
On February 16 2015 09:35 KingofdaHipHop wrote: the only shame is that we didn't get battle cruisers or ravens with that corvid reactor/yamato cannon research
The only shame is that Polt is not a kind of player that can effectively micro viking-ghost-raven-BC-thor-MMM army. To be honest, such player does not exist, but still.
well you don't need to control the thor anymore that's something
On February 16 2015 09:35 PinoKotsBeer wrote: well played by Jim, but protoss late game...
especially as zerg. earlier today i had like 4 bases vs a protoss going mass air. I tried roach hydra, mass corruptor, mass muta, broodlord-infestor, and after all of those failed the protoss came and killed me. wtf.
i dont want to balance whine in a game threadbut damn is protoss air good.
On February 16 2015 09:35 KingofdaHipHop wrote: the only shame is that we didn't get battle cruisers or ravens with that corvid reactor/yamato cannon research
The only shame is that Polt is not a kind of player that can effectively micro viking-ghost-raven-BC-thor-MMM army. To be honest, such player does not exist, but still.
SuperNova? just without the MMM part
That's the point, MMM part is the most important in this all despite army i listed having 2 specialist units, because you kinda need to deal with zealot-archon too (assuming you did get your ravens not-feedbacked by EMPing HT).
On February 16 2015 09:35 KingofdaHipHop wrote: the only shame is that we didn't get battle cruisers or ravens with that corvid reactor/yamato cannon research
The only shame is that Polt is not a kind of player that can effectively micro viking-ghost-raven-BC-thor-MMM army. To be honest, such player does not exist, but still.
SuperNova? just without the MMM part
Supernova cant micro bio units. Only Maru can. Or pre-retirement taeja
Chinesse stroms need to become a thing, like every time a storm hits a whole army and the opposing players doesn't move it they should become "chinesse stroms"
On February 16 2015 09:35 KingofdaHipHop wrote: the only shame is that we didn't get battle cruisers or ravens with that corvid reactor/yamato cannon research
The only shame is that Polt is not a kind of player that can effectively micro viking-ghost-raven-BC-thor-MMM army. To be honest, such player does not exist, but still.
well you don't need to control the thor anymore that's something
You need, you don't want it to target random phoenix that is in front of an army while mommaship/tempest are banging stuff around.
On February 16 2015 09:39 Lexender wrote: Chinesse stroms need to become a thing, like every time a storm hits a whole army and the opposing players doesn't move it they should become "chinesse stroms"
Polt's army was so surprised that Jim had storm that they were paralyzed by shock
On February 16 2015 09:39 Lexender wrote: Chinesse stroms need to become a thing, like every time a storm hits a whole army and the opposing players doesn't move it they should become "chinesse stroms"
After returning from some Dota 2, chinese storms would be opposite of sheever ravage i take it (a ridiculous AoE stun that does not hit anyone).
Gotta love Nathanias+Rotterdam. They went on for like 10 minutes about how Chinese protoss don't use storm...5 minutes later, Jim uses and wins the game largely as a result of storm play
On February 16 2015 09:41 Alucen-Will- wrote: Gotta love Nathanias+Rotterdam. They went on for like 10 minutes about how Chinese protoss don't use storm...5 minutes later, Jim uses and wins the game largely as a result of storm play
Well they really havent for years. They even asked Jim why and he said he never used them since he was always playing on 400 ping.
On February 16 2015 09:41 Alucen-Will- wrote: Gotta love Nathanias+Rotterdam. They went on for like 10 minutes about how Chinese protoss don't use storm...5 minutes later, Jim uses and wins the game largely as a result of storm play
that was like the first time chinese players use storm pvt
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (3)
27%
★★★ - Good game (5)
45%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
11 total votes
Your vote: Polt vs Jim Game 3?
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
Short recap of Polt's TvP: If he can start dropping, he wins. When he cannot, he can take it to ultra late game and then lose because his army suddenly became too hard to control.
On February 16 2015 09:52 Rollora wrote: Damn missed G3 because I was ... away. What happened?
DTs that did some damage into counter attack that sniped robo with collosus building then dt drop then 4 medivac drop that went past blink stalkers into sniped 2 collosi into gg.
Jim went DT, which resulted in an even trade. Polt counterattacked, made Jim use up his MSC energ,y and restarted Jim's Robo tech. Polt then started dropping and winning 2-1.
On February 16 2015 09:54 Kevin_Sorbo wrote: guys from ig look well fed.
All that Dota money.
I mean, was not an iG's sponsor a some rich boy, that at first was interested in computer games but finally grew up and runs around with hookersmodels.
On February 16 2015 09:52 Rollora wrote: Damn missed G3 because I was ... away. What happened?
DTs that did some damage into counter attack that sniped robo with collosus building then dt drop then 4 medivac drop that went past blink stalkers into sniped 2 collosi into gg.
Great short explanation, thx mate exatly what I was looking 4!
On February 16 2015 10:02 Noocta wrote: For someone who watch very few Starcraft since HotS, is Overgrowth the new Daybreak ? ...
Well yeah, it's 2 player, and has gotten really long. Now only thing it needs to finish becoming Daybreak is some annoying as fuck playstyle that leads to boring split map games.
On February 16 2015 10:02 Noocta wrote: For someone who watch very few Starcraft since HotS, is Overgrowth the new Daybreak ? ...
In the sense that it's been in the map pool forever, yes. They were going to remove it for this season, but people complained about a different map that they decided to leave in so they took that map out and decided "Might as well leave in Overgrowth, it's worked for a while."
On February 16 2015 10:02 Noocta wrote: For someone who watch very few Starcraft since HotS, is Overgrowth the new Daybreak ? ...
In the sense that it's been in the map pool forever, yes. They were going to remove it for this season, but people complained about a different map that they decided to leave in so they took that map out and decided "Might as well leave in Overgrowth, it's worked for a while."
I'll never forgive the removal of Whirlwind and Frost (especially Frost).
On February 16 2015 10:02 Noocta wrote: For someone who watch very few Starcraft since HotS, is Overgrowth the new Daybreak ? ...
In the sense that it's been in the map pool forever, yes. They were going to remove it for this season, but people complained about a different map that they decided to leave in so they took that map out and decided "Might as well leave in Overgrowth, it's worked for a while."
RIP Foxtrot Labs, it didn't get the funeral it deserved
On February 16 2015 10:02 Noocta wrote: For someone who watch very few Starcraft since HotS, is Overgrowth the new Daybreak ? ...
In the sense that it's been in the map pool forever, yes. They were going to remove it for this season, but people complained about a different map that they decided to leave in so they took that map out and decided "Might as well leave in Overgrowth, it's worked for a while."
I'll never forgive the removal of Whirlwind and Frost (especially Frost).
Those were the two best maps I've ever played on. Next would be Habitation.
On February 16 2015 10:10 KingofdaHipHop wrote: Bring back moving cannons.
Teleporting cannons* Build ton of cannons at base, build warp prism->cannon rush a zerg base right on creep.
people complain about balance nowadays but the beta was the wild wild west man
LOTV: Cannons can move, but only if Immortals push them.
new upgrade that combines Tempest and Colossus into one unit
15 range AoE attack that hits both Air and ground while not being accessible from ground? Sounds balanced. I suppose it can even cost 25 minerals and 0.5 supply.
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (5)
45%
★★★ - Good game (1)
9%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (3)
27%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (1)
9%
11 total votes
Your vote: TLO vs Jim Game 1?
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
On February 16 2015 10:18 Deathstar wrote: I thought preventing jim from taking a 3rd by having his roaches moving around was a good plan
You missed the point: jim was not even planning on taking a third base. All roaches did was buying time by threatening base race. Honestly, jim should have just went before first immortal and would probably get much more done than by chasing around bunch of roaches while swarm hosts get their stuff.
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
14%
★★★ - Good game (3)
43%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (2)
29%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
7 total votes
Your vote: TLO vs Jim Game 2?
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
Poll: TLO vs Jim Game 3?
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (2)
40%
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
★★★ - Good game (3)
60%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
5 total votes
Your vote: TLO vs Jim Game 3?
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
On February 16 2015 10:30 [PkF] Wire wrote: What swarm host play could have looked like if they hadn't that retarded range.
Honestly, after completing HotS campaign building only swarmhosts (well, except 4 missions before i got them), Current swarm hosts are infinitely better if not for range but for mechanics.
On February 16 2015 10:36 Blargh wrote: This guy's favorite thing is the community, but little does he know... We're just making fun of him on TL forums
if i were going to be on camera for wcs i would do something subtly bizarre too. i mean it's just a bunch of starcraft nerds who are going to see it, who gives a fuck? grab your balls dude
the only time Polt didn't make it to the round of 8 he had a 3 person group since viOLet had to drop out due to visa issues, the people who advanced were aLive and Ryung of all people.
On February 16 2015 10:51 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: That was really nasty, Kelazhur isn't nearly as good at TvT I guess. Or Polt is real good, one of the two.
Polt is the best Terran in the world at the moment since Inno and Maru are slumping imo
On February 16 2015 10:51 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: That was really nasty, Kelazhur isn't nearly as good at TvT I guess. Or Polt is real good, one of the two.
Polt is the best Terran in the world at the moment since Inno and Maru are slumping imo
On February 16 2015 10:51 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: That was really nasty, Kelazhur isn't nearly as good at TvT I guess. Or Polt is real good, one of the two.
Polt is the best Terran in the world at the moment since Inno and Maru are slumping imo
oh if only dwf was awake hahaha
Yeah, he would explain to Shelly that Taeja is in fact the best Terran atm.
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
29%
★★★ - Good game (4)
57%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
7 total votes
Your vote: Polt vs Kelazhur Game 1?
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
On February 16 2015 10:51 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: That was really nasty, Kelazhur isn't nearly as good at TvT I guess. Or Polt is real good, one of the two.
Polt is the best Terran in the world at the moment since Inno and Maru are slumping imo
oh if only dwf was awake hahaha
Yeah, he would explain to Shelly that Taeja is in fact the best Terran atm.
On February 16 2015 10:45 Fortuna.424 wrote: Lol asking Nathanias if he plays vs Khelazur as if he would have pro level MMR.
he tends to play against most NA pros on ladder
Akward then that he always looses vs diamond players on EU.
It's almost as if the ping to EU is sub-optimal from the West Coast of the United States.
Yeah thats why he lost every game on EU ladder while he was in Europe for Dreamhack.
lol ill call the guy out for being a little whiny but this is just petty man. ooh, you got him! he lost games on ladder!
he told a really funny story about how his chair or something broke when he was there or something, i don't remember the details but he basically had no back to his chair or something.
On February 16 2015 10:53 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
On February 16 2015 10:53 KingofdaHipHop wrote:
On February 16 2015 10:51 Shellshock wrote:
On February 16 2015 10:51 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: That was really nasty, Kelazhur isn't nearly as good at TvT I guess. Or Polt is real good, one of the two.
Polt is the best Terran in the world at the moment since Inno and Maru are slumping imo
oh if only dwf was awake hahaha
Yeah, he would explain to Shelly that Taeja is in fact the best Terran atm.
Look at his smallest map tournament results. Rip
After some controversy and the main sponsor pulling out, the earlier announced prize pool of $1,800 was cancelled. lol great tournament
On February 16 2015 10:51 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: That was really nasty, Kelazhur isn't nearly as good at TvT I guess. Or Polt is real good, one of the two.
Polt is the best Terran in the world at the moment since Inno and Maru are slumping imo
oh if only dwf was awake hahaha
Yeah, he would explain to Shelly that Taeja is in fact the best Terran atm.
On February 16 2015 10:53 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
On February 16 2015 10:53 KingofdaHipHop wrote:
On February 16 2015 10:51 Shellshock wrote:
On February 16 2015 10:51 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: That was really nasty, Kelazhur isn't nearly as good at TvT I guess. Or Polt is real good, one of the two.
Polt is the best Terran in the world at the moment since Inno and Maru are slumping imo
oh if only dwf was awake hahaha
Yeah, he would explain to Shelly that Taeja is in fact the best Terran atm.
Look at his smallest map tournament results. Rip
After some controversy and the main sponsor pulling out, the earlier announced prize pool of $1,800 was cancelled. lol great tournament
He still had losses before the prize pool was cut though
On February 16 2015 10:53 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
On February 16 2015 10:53 KingofdaHipHop wrote:
On February 16 2015 10:51 Shellshock wrote:
On February 16 2015 10:51 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: That was really nasty, Kelazhur isn't nearly as good at TvT I guess. Or Polt is real good, one of the two.
Polt is the best Terran in the world at the moment since Inno and Maru are slumping imo
oh if only dwf was awake hahaha
Yeah, he would explain to Shelly that Taeja is in fact the best Terran atm.
MMA!
Swag_bro would say it's dream, so we can't count him out either.
On February 16 2015 10:53 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
On February 16 2015 10:53 KingofdaHipHop wrote:
On February 16 2015 10:51 Shellshock wrote:
On February 16 2015 10:51 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: That was really nasty, Kelazhur isn't nearly as good at TvT I guess. Or Polt is real good, one of the two.
Polt is the best Terran in the world at the moment since Inno and Maru are slumping imo
oh if only dwf was awake hahaha
Yeah, he would explain to Shelly that Taeja is in fact the best Terran atm.
Look at his smallest map tournament results. Rip
After some controversy and the main sponsor pulling out, the earlier announced prize pool of $1,800 was cancelled. lol great tournament
He still had losses before the prize pool was cut though
Oh my goodness. Just tuning in and I had assumed from the Brazilian flag and the fact that I had never heard of this guy that he would go 0-2 0-2. Clearly so wrong....
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
★★★ - Good game (1)
9%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (8)
73%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (2)
18%
11 total votes
Your vote: Polt vs Kelazhur Game 2?
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
wow kelazhurs micro is just stupid. this isn't one of those "foreigner gets a BO advantage and korean makes mistake at precisely the right time" things, that game got played
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (4)
50%
★★★ - Good game (3)
38%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
8 total votes
Your vote: Polt vs Kelazhur Game 3?
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
On February 16 2015 11:28 Circumstance wrote: The entirety of Latin America is coming together across national borders to support their representative.
On February 16 2015 11:27 KingofdaHipHop wrote: Part of me still wishes that Polt was playing GSL, just because if we had Polt and MMA in the round of 8 in GSL I think the world would be fantastic.
On February 16 2015 11:33 Lexender wrote: Kelazhur will win WCS when somebody actually says his name right
how do u pronounce it
Kelazhur
I never know how to explain pronunciation because I think about spanish pronunciation, also maybe I'm wrong after all he speaks portuguese and not spanish
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
13%
★★★ - Good game (5)
63%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (2)
25%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
8 total votes
Your vote: TLO vs Kelazhur Game 1?
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (3)
25%
★★★ - Good game (7)
58%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (2)
17%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
12 total votes
Your vote: TLO vs Kelazhur Game 2?
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
On February 16 2015 11:54 ptbl wrote: How do people still lose to this reaper build in this day and age... o.o
Probably because Zerg has no answer to reapers until speed
Well, If TLO scouted and saw the bunker going up, the reapers would have done nothing. TLO probably got over confident when he saw no bunker in his natural.
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (5)
45%
★★★ - Good game (4)
36%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (2)
18%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
11 total votes
Your vote: TLO vs Kelazhur Game 3?
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
Note the lack of outrage for EU holding groups on weekdays. Because when NA is treated as the lowest priority, we don't freak out the way some OTHER regions do when they're treated as any priority besides the absolute highest.
On February 16 2015 12:21 Circumstance wrote: Note the lack of outrage for EU holding groups on weekdays. Because when NA is treated as the lowest priority, we don't freak out the way some OTHER regions do when they're treated as any priority besides the absolute highest.
On February 16 2015 12:13 D-light wrote: Congrats TLO for going 2-3 against this Brazilian terran.
I always believed in you.
fortunately when playing in "groups" you are compared to the entire group otherwise it would be a "single elim bracket". crazy stuff i know
"The entire group" as in "not Polt" for TLO and "not Jim" for Kelazhur. I might have said it before, but this wouldn't have happened in RR.
Also Dark is 2-2 vs MMA in GSL, and yet MMA is in Ro8. How sick is that.
to be fair the GSL setup where you can meet the same opponent in two group stages right after the other is something which actually really is sick and something which is explicitly avoided in lots of competitions/sports. edit: ... let me check the Handbook if that is something which can happen here as well...
On February 16 2015 12:13 D-light wrote: Congrats TLO for going 2-3 against this Brazilian terran.
I always believed in you.
fortunately when playing in "groups" you are compared to the entire group otherwise it would be a "single elim bracket". crazy stuff i know
"The entire group" as in "not Polt" for TLO and "not Jim" for Kelazhur. I might have said it before, but this wouldn't have happened in RR.
we could've a wonderful 3 way ties and eliminating kelazhur and jim with coin toss, how wonderful it'd ve been.
Speculation. Also do you want to bet on what happened more often: A player getting unfairly eliminated by a coin toss or a player getting unfairly elimated by facing different opposition in a "group"? I can remember two incidents of coin toss: LucifroN and Bischu. The rematch issue is happening pretty much each week.
On February 16 2015 12:13 D-light wrote: Congrats TLO for going 2-3 against this Brazilian terran.
I always believed in you.
fortunately when playing in "groups" you are compared to the entire group otherwise it would be a "single elim bracket". crazy stuff i know
"The entire group" as in "not Polt" for TLO and "not Jim" for Kelazhur. I might have said it before, but this wouldn't have happened in RR.
Aeromi should tweet about RR too :D
Unfortunately to my knowledge Aeromi doesn't share the correct opinion on this issue.
Sounds like a fun concept.
There are always 2 opinions on stuff: My own and a false one.
But seriously, the wording here has more to do with my history of discussion regarding this over the last 3-4 years than with actually believing in the concept of a "correct opinion".
On February 16 2015 12:13 D-light wrote: Congrats TLO for going 2-3 against this Brazilian terran.
I always believed in you.
fortunately when playing in "groups" you are compared to the entire group otherwise it would be a "single elim bracket". crazy stuff i know
"The entire group" as in "not Polt" for TLO and "not Jim" for Kelazhur. I might have said it before, but this wouldn't have happened in RR.
Aeromi should tweet about RR too :D
Unfortunately to my knowledge Aeromi doesn't share the correct opinion on this issue.
Sounds like a fun concept.
There are always 2 opinions on stuff: My own and a false one.
But seriously, the wording here has more to do with my history of discussion regarding this over the last 3-4 years than with actually believing in the concept of a "correct opinion".
Round Robin would be nicer if it wasn't for all the problems of meaningless matches and matches were it might be theoretically good for one player to intentionally lose, sure you can avoid that to some extent by having team mates play first (works if not 3 in 1 group) but what if Player A is already through and just wants to make sure player B is eliminated to increase his/his teammates chances later on and therefore loses to player C. Or Player A is a friend of player B etc. The issue is not only actually really happening, it is that there will be suspicions about player A doing it intentionally even when he played legit, inducing unwarranted drama.
On February 16 2015 12:13 D-light wrote: Congrats TLO for going 2-3 against this Brazilian terran.
I always believed in you.
fortunately when playing in "groups" you are compared to the entire group otherwise it would be a "single elim bracket". crazy stuff i know
"The entire group" as in "not Polt" for TLO and "not Jim" for Kelazhur. I might have said it before, but this wouldn't have happened in RR.
Aeromi should tweet about RR too :D
Unfortunately to my knowledge Aeromi doesn't share the correct opinion on this issue.
Sounds like a fun concept.
There are always 2 opinions on stuff: My own and a false one.
But seriously, the wording here has more to do with my history of discussion regarding this over the last 3-4 years than with actually believing in the concept of a "correct opinion".
Haha; You're at it again Xoro? Maybe we should just post our private messages about this if it comes up so that everyone has all the pro's and cons of both formats :D
On February 16 2015 12:13 D-light wrote: Congrats TLO for going 2-3 against this Brazilian terran.
I always believed in you.
fortunately when playing in "groups" you are compared to the entire group otherwise it would be a "single elim bracket". crazy stuff i know
"The entire group" as in "not Polt" for TLO and "not Jim" for Kelazhur. I might have said it before, but this wouldn't have happened in RR.
Aeromi should tweet about RR too :D
Unfortunately to my knowledge Aeromi doesn't share the correct opinion on this issue.
Sounds like a fun concept.
There are always 2 opinions on stuff: My own and a false one.
But seriously, the wording here has more to do with my history of discussion regarding this over the last 3-4 years than with actually believing in the concept of a "correct opinion".
Haha; You're at it again Xoro? Maybe we should just post our private messages about this if it comes up so that everyone has all the pro's and cons of both formats :D
People complained about BL/Infestor, until it was gone and I am determined to do the same with the GSL format. As the self-proclaimed prophet of Round Robin it is my duty to do so.
On February 16 2015 12:13 D-light wrote: Congrats TLO for going 2-3 against this Brazilian terran.
I always believed in you.
fortunately when playing in "groups" you are compared to the entire group otherwise it would be a "single elim bracket". crazy stuff i know
"The entire group" as in "not Polt" for TLO and "not Jim" for Kelazhur. I might have said it before, but this wouldn't have happened in RR.
Aeromi should tweet about RR too :D
Unfortunately to my knowledge Aeromi doesn't share the correct opinion on this issue.
Sounds like a fun concept.
There are always 2 opinions on stuff: My own and a false one.
But seriously, the wording here has more to do with my history of discussion regarding this over the last 3-4 years than with actually believing in the concept of a "correct opinion".
Haha; You're at it again Xoro? Maybe we should just post our private messages about this if it comes up so that everyone has all the pro's and cons of both formats :D
People complained about BL/Infestor, until it was gone and I am determined to do the same with the GSL format. As the self-proclaimed prophet of Round Robin it is my duty to do so.
I'm pretty sure that the GSL guys still have PTSD from the Naniwa vs Nestea everytime they hear "Round Robin", so yeah good luck with killing the GSL format d:
On February 16 2015 12:13 D-light wrote: Congrats TLO for going 2-3 against this Brazilian terran.
I always believed in you.
fortunately when playing in "groups" you are compared to the entire group otherwise it would be a "single elim bracket". crazy stuff i know
"The entire group" as in "not Polt" for TLO and "not Jim" for Kelazhur. I might have said it before, but this wouldn't have happened in RR.
Aeromi should tweet about RR too :D
Unfortunately to my knowledge Aeromi doesn't share the correct opinion on this issue.
Sounds like a fun concept.
There are always 2 opinions on stuff: My own and a false one.
But seriously, the wording here has more to do with my history of discussion regarding this over the last 3-4 years than with actually believing in the concept of a "correct opinion".
Haha; You're at it again Xoro? Maybe we should just post our private messages about this if it comes up so that everyone has all the pro's and cons of both formats :D
People complained about BL/Infestor, until it was gone and I am determined to do the same with the GSL format. As the self-proclaimed prophet of Round Robin it is my duty to do so.
I'm pretty sure that the GSL guys still have PTSD from the Naniwa vs Nestea everytime they hear "Round Robin", so yeah good luck with killing the GSL format d:
Naniwa vs Nestea only happens when a player isn't professional, you can deal with that as it happens (just ban him) RR is just superior and i don't even think this is an opinion at all, i would look at it as a fact
On February 16 2015 12:15 brickrd wrote: [quote] fortunately when playing in "groups" you are compared to the entire group otherwise it would be a "single elim bracket". crazy stuff i know
"The entire group" as in "not Polt" for TLO and "not Jim" for Kelazhur. I might have said it before, but this wouldn't have happened in RR.
Aeromi should tweet about RR too :D
Unfortunately to my knowledge Aeromi doesn't share the correct opinion on this issue.
Sounds like a fun concept.
There are always 2 opinions on stuff: My own and a false one.
But seriously, the wording here has more to do with my history of discussion regarding this over the last 3-4 years than with actually believing in the concept of a "correct opinion".
Haha; You're at it again Xoro? Maybe we should just post our private messages about this if it comes up so that everyone has all the pro's and cons of both formats :D
People complained about BL/Infestor, until it was gone and I am determined to do the same with the GSL format. As the self-proclaimed prophet of Round Robin it is my duty to do so.
I'm pretty sure that the GSL guys still have PTSD from the Naniwa vs Nestea everytime they hear "Round Robin", so yeah good luck with killing the GSL format d:
Naniwa vs Nestea only happens when a player isn't professional, you can deal with that as it happens (just ban him) RR is just superior and i don't even think this is an opinion at all, i would look at it as a fact
Wowowow easy there. While I agree with your first statement, the second one needs further explanation. If it is a fact and not an opinion, can you point me to some factual/scientific/scientific-ish evidence?
On February 16 2015 19:54 Xoronius wrote: [quote] "The entire group" as in "not Polt" for TLO and "not Jim" for Kelazhur. I might have said it before, but this wouldn't have happened in RR.
Aeromi should tweet about RR too :D
Unfortunately to my knowledge Aeromi doesn't share the correct opinion on this issue.
Sounds like a fun concept.
There are always 2 opinions on stuff: My own and a false one.
But seriously, the wording here has more to do with my history of discussion regarding this over the last 3-4 years than with actually believing in the concept of a "correct opinion".
Haha; You're at it again Xoro? Maybe we should just post our private messages about this if it comes up so that everyone has all the pro's and cons of both formats :D
People complained about BL/Infestor, until it was gone and I am determined to do the same with the GSL format. As the self-proclaimed prophet of Round Robin it is my duty to do so.
I'm pretty sure that the GSL guys still have PTSD from the Naniwa vs Nestea everytime they hear "Round Robin", so yeah good luck with killing the GSL format d:
Naniwa vs Nestea only happens when a player isn't professional, you can deal with that as it happens (just ban him) RR is just superior and i don't even think this is an opinion at all, i would look at it as a fact
Wowowow easy there. While I agree with your first statement, the second one needs further explanation. If it is a fact and not an opinion, can you point me to some factual/scientific/scientific-ish evidence?
Ok i maybe should have said it is fairer (which i consider superior in this instance) You play vs every opponent of your group instead of a random draw, pretty straight forward imo.
On February 17 2015 03:31 KingofdaHipHop wrote: lol i always hate when the stupid format arguments happen lol
Well i understand why, but you don't have to participate if you don't like it :D
this is so ridiculous we didn't get an interview with the guy who made this group very hype, instead we got an interview with this, like wtf who came up with this idea. just retarded really
this is so ridiculous we didn't get an interview with the guy who made this group very hype, instead we got an interview with this, like wtf who came up with this idea. just retarded really
On February 16 2015 21:56 The_Red_Viper wrote: [quote] Aeromi should tweet about RR too :D
Unfortunately to my knowledge Aeromi doesn't share the correct opinion on this issue.
Sounds like a fun concept.
There are always 2 opinions on stuff: My own and a false one.
But seriously, the wording here has more to do with my history of discussion regarding this over the last 3-4 years than with actually believing in the concept of a "correct opinion".
Haha; You're at it again Xoro? Maybe we should just post our private messages about this if it comes up so that everyone has all the pro's and cons of both formats :D
People complained about BL/Infestor, until it was gone and I am determined to do the same with the GSL format. As the self-proclaimed prophet of Round Robin it is my duty to do so.
I'm pretty sure that the GSL guys still have PTSD from the Naniwa vs Nestea everytime they hear "Round Robin", so yeah good luck with killing the GSL format d:
Naniwa vs Nestea only happens when a player isn't professional, you can deal with that as it happens (just ban him) RR is just superior and i don't even think this is an opinion at all, i would look at it as a fact
Wowowow easy there. While I agree with your first statement, the second one needs further explanation. If it is a fact and not an opinion, can you point me to some factual/scientific/scientific-ish evidence?
Ok i maybe should have said it is fairer (which i consider superior in this instance) You play vs every opponent of your group instead of a random draw, pretty straight forward imo.
On February 17 2015 03:31 KingofdaHipHop wrote: lol i always hate when the stupid format arguments happen lol
Well i understand why, but you don't have to participate if you don't like it :D
Well I guess that's where we disagree. I think the GSL format is superior (although I agree that it is fairer) because it is easier to understand (a player loses two times -> out, wins two times -> in), more time-efficient (I mean when you see that SpoTV/KeSPA weren't able to schedule the STYW-JAGW match later, I dunno how they would handle a tiebreaker lol. DH-style?), and gives more potential for group-lasting storylines. edit : I understand your POV though. Ideally Starcraft group stages should be played with the Swiss-format though.
this is so ridiculous we didn't get an interview with the guy who made this group very hype, instead we got an interview with this, like wtf who came up with this idea. just retarded really
On February 17 2015 00:06 Xoronius wrote: [quote] Unfortunately to my knowledge Aeromi doesn't share the correct opinion on this issue.
Sounds like a fun concept.
There are always 2 opinions on stuff: My own and a false one.
But seriously, the wording here has more to do with my history of discussion regarding this over the last 3-4 years than with actually believing in the concept of a "correct opinion".
Haha; You're at it again Xoro? Maybe we should just post our private messages about this if it comes up so that everyone has all the pro's and cons of both formats :D
People complained about BL/Infestor, until it was gone and I am determined to do the same with the GSL format. As the self-proclaimed prophet of Round Robin it is my duty to do so.
I'm pretty sure that the GSL guys still have PTSD from the Naniwa vs Nestea everytime they hear "Round Robin", so yeah good luck with killing the GSL format d:
Naniwa vs Nestea only happens when a player isn't professional, you can deal with that as it happens (just ban him) RR is just superior and i don't even think this is an opinion at all, i would look at it as a fact
Wowowow easy there. While I agree with your first statement, the second one needs further explanation. If it is a fact and not an opinion, can you point me to some factual/scientific/scientific-ish evidence?
Ok i maybe should have said it is fairer (which i consider superior in this instance) You play vs every opponent of your group instead of a random draw, pretty straight forward imo.
On February 17 2015 03:31 KingofdaHipHop wrote: lol i always hate when the stupid format arguments happen lol
Well i understand why, but you don't have to participate if you don't like it :D
Well I guess that's where we disagree. I think the GSL format is superior (although I agree that it is fairer) because it is easier to understand (a player loses two times -> out, wins two times -> in), more time-efficient (I mean when you see that SpoTV/KeSPA weren't able to schedule the STYW-JAGW match later, I dunno how they would handle a tiebreaker lol. DH-style?), and gives more potential for group-lasting storylines. edit : I understand your POV though. Ideally Starcraft group stages should be played with the Swiss-format though.
easier to understand
Hm i am not so sure about that tbh. I don't think a round robin is hard to understand either.
more time-efficient
Ok that is true, even though that's only a real issue in the case of tie breakers. But it was possible in BW, i don't see why it wouldn't be possible now (i mean if you choose RR you plan for it^^)
more potential for group-lasting storylines
Can you elaborate? I am not sure what you mean tbh.
So yeah, both groups have advantages, i just value the aspect of fairness as the most important by far.
On February 16 2015 12:13 D-light wrote: Congrats TLO for going 2-3 against this Brazilian terran.
I always believed in you.
fortunately when playing in "groups" you are compared to the entire group otherwise it would be a "single elim bracket". crazy stuff i know
"The entire group" as in "not Polt" for TLO and "not Jim" for Kelazhur. I might have said it before, but this wouldn't have happened in RR.
Aeromi should tweet about RR too :D
Unfortunately to my knowledge Aeromi doesn't share the correct opinion on this issue.
Sounds like a fun concept.
There are always 2 opinions on stuff: My own and a false one.
But seriously, the wording here has more to do with my history of discussion regarding this over the last 3-4 years than with actually believing in the concept of a "correct opinion".
Haha; You're at it again Xoro? Maybe we should just post our private messages about this if it comes up so that everyone has all the pro's and cons of both formats :D
People complained about BL/Infestor, until it was gone and I am determined to do the same with the GSL format. As the self-proclaimed prophet of Round Robin it is my duty to do so.
Hehe, I wish you luck with your cause then (but I hope you don't succeed obviously)
On February 16 2015 12:13 D-light wrote: Congrats TLO for going 2-3 against this Brazilian terran.
I always believed in you.
fortunately when playing in "groups" you are compared to the entire group otherwise it would be a "single elim bracket". crazy stuff i know
"The entire group" as in "not Polt" for TLO and "not Jim" for Kelazhur. I might have said it before, but this wouldn't have happened in RR.
Aeromi should tweet about RR too :D
Unfortunately to my knowledge Aeromi doesn't share the correct opinion on this issue.
Sounds like a fun concept.
There are always 2 opinions on stuff: My own and a false one.
But seriously, the wording here has more to do with my history of discussion regarding this over the last 3-4 years than with actually believing in the concept of a "correct opinion".
Haha; You're at it again Xoro? Maybe we should just post our private messages about this if it comes up so that everyone has all the pro's and cons of both formats :D
People complained about BL/Infestor, until it was gone and I am determined to do the same with the GSL format. As the self-proclaimed prophet of Round Robin it is my duty to do so.
Hehe, I wish you luck with your cause then (but I hope you don't succeed obviously)
Thank you.
On February 17 2015 03:31 KingofdaHipHop wrote: lol i always hate when the stupid format arguments happen lol
I am already restraining myself to bring it up after the group is over. I think that is a fair compromise.
On February 17 2015 00:06 Xoronius wrote: [quote] Unfortunately to my knowledge Aeromi doesn't share the correct opinion on this issue.
Sounds like a fun concept.
There are always 2 opinions on stuff: My own and a false one.
But seriously, the wording here has more to do with my history of discussion regarding this over the last 3-4 years than with actually believing in the concept of a "correct opinion".
Haha; You're at it again Xoro? Maybe we should just post our private messages about this if it comes up so that everyone has all the pro's and cons of both formats :D
People complained about BL/Infestor, until it was gone and I am determined to do the same with the GSL format. As the self-proclaimed prophet of Round Robin it is my duty to do so.
I'm pretty sure that the GSL guys still have PTSD from the Naniwa vs Nestea everytime they hear "Round Robin", so yeah good luck with killing the GSL format d:
Naniwa vs Nestea only happens when a player isn't professional, you can deal with that as it happens (just ban him) RR is just superior and i don't even think this is an opinion at all, i would look at it as a fact
Wowowow easy there. While I agree with your first statement, the second one needs further explanation. If it is a fact and not an opinion, can you point me to some factual/scientific/scientific-ish evidence?
Ok i maybe should have said it is fairer (which i consider superior in this instance) You play vs every opponent of your group instead of a random draw, pretty straight forward imo.
On February 17 2015 03:31 KingofdaHipHop wrote: lol i always hate when the stupid format arguments happen lol
Well i understand why, but you don't have to participate if you don't like it :D
Well I guess that's where we disagree. I think the GSL format is superior (although I agree that it is fairer) because it is easier to understand (a player loses two times -> out, wins two times -> in), more time-efficient (I mean when you see that SpoTV/KeSPA weren't able to schedule the STYW-JAGW match later, I dunno how they would handle a tiebreaker lol. DH-style?), and gives more potential for group-lasting storylines. edit : I understand your POV though. Ideally Starcraft group stages should be played with the Swiss-format though.
All of your points are true. None of them has anything to do with fairness. Being easier to understand only changes the watchers perspective about fairness, not the acutal fairness itself. The time-thing is true, but WCS isn't on a strict schedule; they play one group per day, so tie-breakers (to infinity, if it's neccessary) are solving that at least for this tournament (that is a much bigger problem in other events, though, I can see that as a point). Storylines have nothing at all to do with fairness. Having a tournament with swiss system (I assume, you mean the one, that is used in chess) would be a nice breath of fresh air, but if you play a 4-man group in 3 rounds of swiss-system, it just becomes RR again.
this is so ridiculous we didn't get an interview with the guy who made this group very hype, instead we got an interview with this, like wtf who came up with this idea. just retarded really
people get too angry at things nowadays
well can you legitimate that for me pls?
more incentive for people to come out to live events
"If you come out, you can be on stream and have your say. What you say matters to us and to the viewers."
I think anyway, and that's worth it even if we get the occasional oddity lol.
this is so ridiculous we didn't get an interview with the guy who made this group very hype, instead we got an interview with this, like wtf who came up with this idea. just retarded really
people get too angry at things nowadays
well can you legitimate that for me pls?
more incentive for people to come out to live events
"If you come out, you can be on stream and have your say. What you say matters to us and to the viewers."
I think anyway, and that's worth it even if we get the occasional oddity lol.
On February 17 2015 00:07 OtherWorld wrote: [quote] Sounds like a fun concept.
There are always 2 opinions on stuff: My own and a false one.
But seriously, the wording here has more to do with my history of discussion regarding this over the last 3-4 years than with actually believing in the concept of a "correct opinion".
Haha; You're at it again Xoro? Maybe we should just post our private messages about this if it comes up so that everyone has all the pro's and cons of both formats :D
People complained about BL/Infestor, until it was gone and I am determined to do the same with the GSL format. As the self-proclaimed prophet of Round Robin it is my duty to do so.
I'm pretty sure that the GSL guys still have PTSD from the Naniwa vs Nestea everytime they hear "Round Robin", so yeah good luck with killing the GSL format d:
Naniwa vs Nestea only happens when a player isn't professional, you can deal with that as it happens (just ban him) RR is just superior and i don't even think this is an opinion at all, i would look at it as a fact
Wowowow easy there. While I agree with your first statement, the second one needs further explanation. If it is a fact and not an opinion, can you point me to some factual/scientific/scientific-ish evidence?
Ok i maybe should have said it is fairer (which i consider superior in this instance) You play vs every opponent of your group instead of a random draw, pretty straight forward imo.
On February 17 2015 03:31 KingofdaHipHop wrote: lol i always hate when the stupid format arguments happen lol
Well i understand why, but you don't have to participate if you don't like it :D
Well I guess that's where we disagree. I think the GSL format is superior (although I agree that it is fairer) because it is easier to understand (a player loses two times -> out, wins two times -> in), more time-efficient (I mean when you see that SpoTV/KeSPA weren't able to schedule the STYW-JAGW match later, I dunno how they would handle a tiebreaker lol. DH-style?), and gives more potential for group-lasting storylines. edit : I understand your POV though. Ideally Starcraft group stages should be played with the Swiss-format though.
Ok that is true, even though that's only a real issue in the case of tie breakers. But it was possible in BW, i don't see why it wouldn't be possible now (i mean if you choose RR you plan for it^^)
Can you elaborate? I am not sure what you mean tbh.
So yeah, both groups have advantages, i just value the aspect of fairness as the most important by far.
Well by easier to understand I mean that you tune in, see X vs Y and hear the casters say it's the loser's match, you now that the loser will be out, you don't have to check the results of past series and maps and involve map score etc etc. As for the group-lasting storylines I'm talking about the fact that every match past the first two are decisive (more hype, etc) and it allows for easier upsets than RR, as well as giving us the possibility to see players go one map away from qualifying in the winners' match to then lose in the decider.
On February 16 2015 12:15 brickrd wrote: [quote] fortunately when playing in "groups" you are compared to the entire group otherwise it would be a "single elim bracket". crazy stuff i know
"The entire group" as in "not Polt" for TLO and "not Jim" for Kelazhur. I might have said it before, but this wouldn't have happened in RR.
Aeromi should tweet about RR too :D
Unfortunately to my knowledge Aeromi doesn't share the correct opinion on this issue.
Sounds like a fun concept.
There are always 2 opinions on stuff: My own and a false one.
But seriously, the wording here has more to do with my history of discussion regarding this over the last 3-4 years than with actually believing in the concept of a "correct opinion".
Haha; You're at it again Xoro? Maybe we should just post our private messages about this if it comes up so that everyone has all the pro's and cons of both formats :D
People complained about BL/Infestor, until it was gone and I am determined to do the same with the GSL format. As the self-proclaimed prophet of Round Robin it is my duty to do so.
Hehe, I wish you luck with your cause then (but I hope you don't succeed obviously)
On February 17 2015 00:07 OtherWorld wrote: [quote] Sounds like a fun concept.
There are always 2 opinions on stuff: My own and a false one.
But seriously, the wording here has more to do with my history of discussion regarding this over the last 3-4 years than with actually believing in the concept of a "correct opinion".
Haha; You're at it again Xoro? Maybe we should just post our private messages about this if it comes up so that everyone has all the pro's and cons of both formats :D
People complained about BL/Infestor, until it was gone and I am determined to do the same with the GSL format. As the self-proclaimed prophet of Round Robin it is my duty to do so.
I'm pretty sure that the GSL guys still have PTSD from the Naniwa vs Nestea everytime they hear "Round Robin", so yeah good luck with killing the GSL format d:
Naniwa vs Nestea only happens when a player isn't professional, you can deal with that as it happens (just ban him) RR is just superior and i don't even think this is an opinion at all, i would look at it as a fact
Wowowow easy there. While I agree with your first statement, the second one needs further explanation. If it is a fact and not an opinion, can you point me to some factual/scientific/scientific-ish evidence?
Ok i maybe should have said it is fairer (which i consider superior in this instance) You play vs every opponent of your group instead of a random draw, pretty straight forward imo.
On February 17 2015 03:31 KingofdaHipHop wrote: lol i always hate when the stupid format arguments happen lol
Well i understand why, but you don't have to participate if you don't like it :D
Well I guess that's where we disagree. I think the GSL format is superior (although I agree that it is fairer) because it is easier to understand (a player loses two times -> out, wins two times -> in), more time-efficient (I mean when you see that SpoTV/KeSPA weren't able to schedule the STYW-JAGW match later, I dunno how they would handle a tiebreaker lol. DH-style?), and gives more potential for group-lasting storylines. edit : I understand your POV though. Ideally Starcraft group stages should be played with the Swiss-format though.
All of your points are true. None of them has anything to do with fairness. Being easier to understand only changes the watchers perspective about fairness, not the acutal fairness itself. The time-thing is true, but WCS isn't on a strict schedule; they play one group per day, so tie-breakers (to infinity, if it's neccessary) are solving that at least for this tournament (that is a much bigger problem in other events, though, I can see that as a point). Storylines have nothing at all to do with fairness. Having a tournament with swiss system (I assume, you mean the one, that is used in chess) would be a nice breath of fresh air, but if you play a 4-man group in 3 rounds of swiss-system, it just becomes RR again.
Well, I said that RR is indeed fairer. So I dunno what you want more. Obviously fairness is the very basis of any legit sports-like competition, but there is a point where it becomes acceptable to lose some fairness for the sake of other things. I mean, playoffs are unfair by nature, right? They allow bracket luck as well as people winning tournaments facing only one race. Why aren't we playing tourneys like IEM Katowice or BlizzCon in a big RR or in Swiss system (yes the one that is used in chess) instead of BoX playoffs? Because bracket luck is part of the game, and that's why to me the slight unfairness of GSL format is acceptable, as long as the groups were selected randomly with seeds and not with a format that allows someone to willfully make life difficult for another player.
On February 16 2015 19:54 Xoronius wrote: [quote] "The entire group" as in "not Polt" for TLO and "not Jim" for Kelazhur. I might have said it before, but this wouldn't have happened in RR.
Aeromi should tweet about RR too :D
Unfortunately to my knowledge Aeromi doesn't share the correct opinion on this issue.
Sounds like a fun concept.
There are always 2 opinions on stuff: My own and a false one.
But seriously, the wording here has more to do with my history of discussion regarding this over the last 3-4 years than with actually believing in the concept of a "correct opinion".
Haha; You're at it again Xoro? Maybe we should just post our private messages about this if it comes up so that everyone has all the pro's and cons of both formats :D
People complained about BL/Infestor, until it was gone and I am determined to do the same with the GSL format. As the self-proclaimed prophet of Round Robin it is my duty to do so.
Hehe, I wish you luck with your cause then (but I hope you don't succeed obviously)
Thank you.
On February 17 2015 03:31 KingofdaHipHop wrote: lol i always hate when the stupid format arguments happen lol
I am already restraining myself to bring it up after the group is over. I think that is a fair compromise.
On February 17 2015 03:46 OtherWorld wrote:
On February 17 2015 03:36 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On February 17 2015 03:29 OtherWorld wrote:
On February 17 2015 03:14 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On February 17 2015 01:20 OtherWorld wrote:
On February 17 2015 00:57 Xoronius wrote:
On February 17 2015 00:35 Penev wrote:
On February 17 2015 00:13 Xoronius wrote: [quote] There are always 2 opinions on stuff: My own and a false one.
But seriously, the wording here has more to do with my history of discussion regarding this over the last 3-4 years than with actually believing in the concept of a "correct opinion".
Haha; You're at it again Xoro? Maybe we should just post our private messages about this if it comes up so that everyone has all the pro's and cons of both formats :D
People complained about BL/Infestor, until it was gone and I am determined to do the same with the GSL format. As the self-proclaimed prophet of Round Robin it is my duty to do so.
I'm pretty sure that the GSL guys still have PTSD from the Naniwa vs Nestea everytime they hear "Round Robin", so yeah good luck with killing the GSL format d:
Naniwa vs Nestea only happens when a player isn't professional, you can deal with that as it happens (just ban him) RR is just superior and i don't even think this is an opinion at all, i would look at it as a fact
Wowowow easy there. While I agree with your first statement, the second one needs further explanation. If it is a fact and not an opinion, can you point me to some factual/scientific/scientific-ish evidence?
Ok i maybe should have said it is fairer (which i consider superior in this instance) You play vs every opponent of your group instead of a random draw, pretty straight forward imo.
On February 17 2015 03:31 KingofdaHipHop wrote: lol i always hate when the stupid format arguments happen lol
Well i understand why, but you don't have to participate if you don't like it :D
Well I guess that's where we disagree. I think the GSL format is superior (although I agree that it is fairer) because it is easier to understand (a player loses two times -> out, wins two times -> in), more time-efficient (I mean when you see that SpoTV/KeSPA weren't able to schedule the STYW-JAGW match later, I dunno how they would handle a tiebreaker lol. DH-style?), and gives more potential for group-lasting storylines. edit : I understand your POV though. Ideally Starcraft group stages should be played with the Swiss-format though.
All of your points are true. None of them has anything to do with fairness. Being easier to understand only changes the watchers perspective about fairness, not the acutal fairness itself. The time-thing is true, but WCS isn't on a strict schedule; they play one group per day, so tie-breakers (to infinity, if it's neccessary) are solving that at least for this tournament (that is a much bigger problem in other events, though, I can see that as a point). Storylines have nothing at all to do with fairness. Having a tournament with swiss system (I assume, you mean the one, that is used in chess) would be a nice breath of fresh air, but if you play a 4-man group in 3 rounds of swiss-system, it just becomes RR again.
Well, I said that RR is indeed fairer. So I dunno what you want more. Obviously fairness is the very basis of any legit sports-like competition, but there is a point where it becomes acceptable to lose some fairness for the sake of other things. I mean, playoffs are unfair by nature, right? They allow bracket luck as well as people winning tournaments facing only one race. Why aren't we playing tourneys like IEM Katowice or BlizzCon in a big RR or in Swiss system (yes the one that is used in chess) instead of BoX playoffs? Because bracket luck is part of the game, and that's why to me the slight unfairness of GSL format is acceptable, as long as the groups were selected randomly with seeds and not with a format that allows someone to willfully make life difficult for another player.
Ok, misunderstood you earlier than. If you are willing to sacrifice a bit of fairness for other things, that is an opinion (not a correct or false one this time ), I do not share, but I can see, why you are prefering Double-elim then.
How can you even think to say that RR is fairer? Somebody even brought up the problem, but it was quickly dismissed, because it is inconvenient. The situation when somebody's advancement is decided by a match of two other people, one of which has nothing to gain/lose is inevitable in RR and it is the polar opposite of "fair". You can toss around "professionality" as much as you want, it won't make it fair.
On February 17 2015 22:39 opisska wrote: How can you even think to say that RR is fairer? Somebody even brought up the problem, but it was quickly dismissed, because it is inconvenient. The situation when somebody's advancement is decided by a match of two other people, one of which has nothing to gain/lose is inevitable in RR and it is the polar opposite of "fair". You can toss around "professionality" as much as you want, it won't make it fair.
On February 17 2015 22:39 opisska wrote: How can you even think to say that RR is fairer? Somebody even brought up the problem, but it was quickly dismissed, because it is inconvenient. The situation when somebody's advancement is decided by a match of two other people, one of which has nothing to gain/lose is inevitable in RR and it is the polar opposite of "fair". You can toss around "professionality" as much as you want, it won't make it fair.
What case are you exactly talking about?
I am talking exactly about the case I have so explicitly described. Not a specific instance of it happening, but about the fact that this can happen and cannot be avoided.
On February 17 2015 22:39 opisska wrote: How can you even think to say that RR is fairer? Somebody even brought up the problem, but it was quickly dismissed, because it is inconvenient. The situation when somebody's advancement is decided by a match of two other people, one of which has nothing to gain/lose is inevitable in RR and it is the polar opposite of "fair". You can toss around "professionality" as much as you want, it won't make it fair.
You are WRONG.
RR is fairer cause at least between 2 guys we can determine the better one.
You can argue that group selection is already a RANDOM factor. Fair. So I consider 2 people facing each other first in Double Bracket be in the same "little group". But even in this little group, things are not fair.
There is an extreme case for this when your group has 4 people, 1 ranked extremely high (H), 1 extremely low(L), and 2 other guys in the middle (A & B).
Matches are A vs B, H vs L. A wins, H wins. A vs H -> A loses -> exhausted (plays the best player) B vs L -> B wins -> easy win (cause L is really bad) now decider: A vs B rematch Now B gains 2 BIG advantages: 1. A is exhausted mentally & physically after losing hard games to H. 2. A shows all his cards the first time they met. Thus, B wins the rematch, despite being the worse player. All because of DB.
If B identifies the situation right from the beginning (that there is H very good and L very bad), he can have a high-chance winning strategy: loses purposely to A but try to make him expose all cards, then use prepared strategies ONLY in the rematch.
On February 17 2015 22:39 opisska wrote: How can you even think to say that RR is fairer? Somebody even brought up the problem, but it was quickly dismissed, because it is inconvenient. The situation when somebody's advancement is decided by a match of two other people, one of which has nothing to gain/lose is inevitable in RR and it is the polar opposite of "fair". You can toss around "professionality" as much as you want, it won't make it fair.
What case are you exactly talking about?
I am talking exactly about the case I have so explicitly described. Not a specific instance of it happening, but about the fact that this can happen and cannot be avoided.
so you are talking about mapwins as decider? (kinda what TB was angry about in a dreamhack some time ago)
On February 17 2015 22:39 opisska wrote: How can you even think to say that RR is fairer? Somebody even brought up the problem, but it was quickly dismissed, because it is inconvenient. The situation when somebody's advancement is decided by a match of two other people, one of which has nothing to gain/lose is inevitable in RR and it is the polar opposite of "fair". You can toss around "professionality" as much as you want, it won't make it fair.
What case are you exactly talking about?
I am talking exactly about the case I have so explicitly described. Not a specific instance of it happening, but about the fact that this can happen and cannot be avoided.
so you are talking about mapwins as decider? (kinda what TB was angry about in a dreamhack some time ago)
Ok, let me give you a specific example, right?
A>B C>D A>C B<D A<D
A 2 B 0 C 1 D 2
now we play B vs. C - if B wins, A and D advance while if C wins, then A>C>D>A is a 3-way tie at 2 points.
But there is nothing for B in the last game (except for pride) and that gives C a huge and unfair advantage. He is not out of the woods yet (in more than 4-player groups you can find examples when it's a straight up advancing, not a tie, but I couldn't find one for 4 players), but definitely better off than if he lost ...
If GSL groups, every match is the players plying for themselves, a player never plays in a situation where his fate (good or bad) is already decided.
On February 17 2015 22:39 opisska wrote: How can you even think to say that RR is fairer? Somebody even brought up the problem, but it was quickly dismissed, because it is inconvenient. The situation when somebody's advancement is decided by a match of two other people, one of which has nothing to gain/lose is inevitable in RR and it is the polar opposite of "fair". You can toss around "professionality" as much as you want, it won't make it fair.
What case are you exactly talking about?
I am talking exactly about the case I have so explicitly described. Not a specific instance of it happening, but about the fact that this can happen and cannot be avoided.
so you are talking about mapwins as decider? (kinda what TB was angry about in a dreamhack some time ago)
Ok, let me give you a specific example, right?
A>B C>D A>C B<D A<D
A 2 B 0 C 1 D 2
now we play B vs. C - if B wins, A and D advance while if C wins, then A>C>D>A is a 3-way tie at 2 points.
But there is nothing for B in the last game (except for pride) and that gives C a huge and unfair advantage. He is not out of the woods yet (in more than 4-player groups you can find examples when it's a straight up advancing, not a tie, but I couldn't find one for 4 players), but definitely better off than if he lost ...
If GSL groups, every match is the players plying for themselves, a player never plays in a situation where his faith (good or bad) is already decided.
In RR there are always 2 matches played at the same time. Thus A vs D and B vs C are played at the same time and B doesn't know, that D will beat A. Thus the standings would be: A 2 B 0 C 1 D 1 And B would still have a chance to win a tie-breaker, thus he would play for something.
In the hypothetical case, that the result of A vs D would be known (which is, as said before, usually not the case), the problem is still easily fixable: Make the money distribution 4,5k/3,5k instead of 4k/4k and suddenly instead of playing for nothing, B plays for a chance to maybe overtake C and thus for 1k.
On February 17 2015 22:39 opisska wrote: How can you even think to say that RR is fairer? Somebody even brought up the problem, but it was quickly dismissed, because it is inconvenient. The situation when somebody's advancement is decided by a match of two other people, one of which has nothing to gain/lose is inevitable in RR and it is the polar opposite of "fair". You can toss around "professionality" as much as you want, it won't make it fair.
What case are you exactly talking about?
I am talking exactly about the case I have so explicitly described. Not a specific instance of it happening, but about the fact that this can happen and cannot be avoided.
so you are talking about mapwins as decider? (kinda what TB was angry about in a dreamhack some time ago)
Ok, let me give you a specific example, right?
A>B C>D A>C B<D A<D
A 2 B 0 C 1 D 2
now we play B vs. C - if B wins, A and D advance while if C wins, then A>C>D>A is a 3-way tie at 2 points.
But there is nothing for B in the last game (except for pride) and that gives C a huge and unfair advantage. He is not out of the woods yet (in more than 4-player groups you can find examples when it's a straight up advancing, not a tie, but I couldn't find one for 4 players), but definitely better off than if he lost ...
If GSL groups, every match is the players plying for themselves, a player never plays in a situation where his faith (good or bad) is already decided.
In RR there are always 2 matches played at the same time. Thus A vs D and B vs C are played at the same time and B doesn't know, that D will beat A. Thus the standings would be: A 2 B 0 C 1 D 1 And B would still have a chance to win a tie-breaker, thus he would play for something.
In the hypothetical case, that the result of A vs D would be known (which is, as said before, usually not the case), the problem is still easily fixable: Make the money distribution 4,5k/3,5k instead of 4k/4k and suddenly instead of playing for nothing, B plays for a chance to maybe overtake C and thus for 1k.
1. in a broadcasted league, you will probably want to play the matches one after another because of the viewers. I think there is some space to help things here, because you can choose the order, but the problem is that that also influences the matches, so is not so "fair".
2. what? if tha A-D results is known, B does not advance no matter what, so the prize money distribution is not helping at all. You can make per-match prizes to give incentive, but that can turn out to be expensive and also it is very different to play for 100$ and for a shot on the GSL trophy.
On February 17 2015 22:39 opisska wrote: How can you even think to say that RR is fairer? Somebody even brought up the problem, but it was quickly dismissed, because it is inconvenient. The situation when somebody's advancement is decided by a match of two other people, one of which has nothing to gain/lose is inevitable in RR and it is the polar opposite of "fair". You can toss around "professionality" as much as you want, it won't make it fair.
What case are you exactly talking about?
I am talking exactly about the case I have so explicitly described. Not a specific instance of it happening, but about the fact that this can happen and cannot be avoided.
so you are talking about mapwins as decider? (kinda what TB was angry about in a dreamhack some time ago)
Ok, let me give you a specific example, right?
A>B C>D A>C B<D A<D
A 2 B 0 C 1 D 2
now we play B vs. C - if B wins, A and D advance while if C wins, then A>C>D>A is a 3-way tie at 2 points.
But there is nothing for B in the last game (except for pride) and that gives C a huge and unfair advantage. He is not out of the woods yet (in more than 4-player groups you can find examples when it's a straight up advancing, not a tie, but I couldn't find one for 4 players), but definitely better off than if he lost ...
If GSL groups, every match is the players plying for themselves, a player never plays in a situation where his faith (good or bad) is already decided.
In RR there are always 2 matches played at the same time. Thus A vs D and B vs C are played at the same time and B doesn't know, that D will beat A. Thus the standings would be: A 2 B 0 C 1 D 1 And B would still have a chance to win a tie-breaker, thus he would play for something.
In the hypothetical case, that the result of A vs D would be known (which is, as said before, usually not the case), the problem is still easily fixable: Make the money distribution 4,5k/3,5k instead of 4k/4k and suddenly instead of playing for nothing, B plays for a chance to maybe overtake C and thus for 1k.
1. in a broadcasted league, you will probably want to play the matches one after another because of the viewers. I think there is some space to help things here, because you can choose the order, but the problem is that that also influences the matches, so is not so "fair".
2. what? if tha A-D results is known, B does not advance no matter what, so the prize money distribution is not helping at all. You can make per-match prizes to give incentive, but that can turn out to be expensive and also it is very different to play for 100$ and for a shot on the GSL trophy.
1. A&B-stream. It has been done in the past a lot
2. B wouldn't have a chance to advance in said scenario, but he would have a chance to get 3rd place. If the difference between 17-24/25-32 is 1k$, that might be 1k$ for winning a single bo3. That is about 500-1000$ per hour. I think most people would work for that amout of money
3. _TMT_ problem with double-elim is still up and hasn't been answered.
1. it has been done at weekend tourneys. In GSL I fucking want to see all of the games! Mind you that all of this business is kind of done for the spectators in the first place, without them, there are no prizes, no tourneys ...
2. fair point, but you need to see the huge difference. Also opens a barn door to fixing (sorry to pull that up in these days, but it's the reality)
3. I am sorry but this is really subjective. All of this "mental exhaustion" and "show cards" is highly speculative. I believe that every player should be able to do for himself in the current match as well as he can (that holds IRL as well for that matter) and the rest are really just excuses. The problem in my example is that A and D don't really have much chances to do anything for themselves in the last match where they are not even playing.
The important thing to note is that neither method is without issues and it's a lot about which kind of issues does one see as more important. But shouting that RR is "fair" is really misguided. The only absolutely fair thing would be a repeated RR with random ordering of matches going on for an infinite number of rounds to smear any assymetries due to match order (and even that would be terribly OP against mortal beings ... )
On February 18 2015 04:12 opisska wrote: 1. it has been done at weekend tourneys. In GSL I fucking want to see all of the games! Mind you that all of this business is kind of done for the spectators in the first place, without them, there are no prizes, no tourneys ...
2. fair point, but you need to see the huge difference. Also opens a barn door to fixing (sorry to pull that up in these days, but it's the reality)
3. I am sorry but this is really subjective. All of this "mental exhaustion" and "show cards" is highly speculative. I believe that every player should be able to do for himself in the current match as well as he can (that holds IRL as well for that matter) and the rest are really just excuses. The problem in my example is that A and D don't really have much chances to do anything for themselves in the last match where they are not even playing.
The important thing to note is that neither method is without issues and it's a lot about which kind of issues does one see as more important. But shouting that RR is "fair" is really misguided. The only absolutely fair thing would be a repeated RR with random ordering of matches going on for an infinite number of rounds to smear any assymetries due to match order (and even that would be terribly OP against mortal beings ... )
3. Sorry but i don't think that this answers any of my points.
The problem is that:
A & B both play 2 matches before their final clash. One match they play each other. One match A plays against the best, and B plays against the worst. So coming to the final match, the advantage is CLEAR.
And no, one does not come to a match "do as well as he can". It all comes down to builds and preparation. Especially with this GSL-like format. And if you know winning does not matter (losing even benefits), why not hide your builds in the first match and let your opponent shows all his? Double benefit here.
The Rematch curse has existed for so so long (so annoying too) and organizers still think it's ... a curse????
P/S: Your arguments are all about random factor. Grouping is random. Ordering is random. So it's fair after all. One can not roll a bad dice and says it's not fair
Not going to argue over 3, since that _TMT_ is doing that, maybe I'll say something at a later point.
On February 18 2015 04:12 opisska wrote: 1. it has been done at weekend tourneys. In GSL I fucking want to see all of the games!
1. GSL is GSL and GSL might be on TV again at some point and they have to furfill a schedule there, so I can accept GSL sticking to their own format, because of scheduling reasons. But the double-elim stuff is everywhere at the moment, even if those scheduling reasons are not existent.
On February 18 2015 04:12 opisska wrote: Mind you that all of this business is kind of done for the spectators in the first place, without them, there are no prizes, no tourneys ...
In that case, we have different expectations on what a systems primary point is. I care about optimal fariness to the players, when judging a system and about nothing else. Spectators are totally negligible from my PoV. (I see, where my view collides with the majority here though, I also still don't see a problem in the Nani/Polt-incident). Take that one MLG thing, where everyone picked Puck for example: Nice storyline, fun to watch for the viewer, but undoubtly unfair and thus IMHO a bad system, destpite it's entertainment value.
On February 18 2015 04:12 opisska wrote: 2. fair point, but you need to see the huge difference. Also opens a barn door to fixing (sorry to pull that up in these days, but it's the reality)
I'm not seeing, how it would do that. Please elaborate, because if there is a huge point here, that would be intresting.
1. I concede that tourneys who schedule two streams anyway could in principle use RR. I couldn't create a 4-man scenario when the problem would occur without knowing the result of the other match. However you should lose the tunnel vision about "players" - optimal for them is in no doubt to get some money from the match and that's directly dependent on the viewer popularity of the tourney. That's just the reality of life I am afraid.
Also I hope that we could at least agree that tourneys should not use >4player RR, right? Because there it gets really, really messy fast.
2. I think this is pretty straightforward, albeit nasty - a player who has nothing to gain could lose on purpose and the advancing player could cut a part of his prize money for him. I am not really trying to accuse anyone of such behaviour, but the opportunity makes the thief. This aside, I still see a big difference of motivation in playing for a shot on the trophy and for a few bucks (in the case your financial incentive solution is used).
3. ad _TNT_ - I am sorry man, but all of this "point" is just a story you made. You purposedly overvalue one of many aspects of the competition to create tension in your scenario. First of all in high-level SC2 there are hardly situations where players of definedly different levels like that.
Also if I wanted to play along with you, I would say that A can just throw (or even forfeit, I think this is allowed in WCS according to the Book of Aeromi) the games against H which he would lose anyway and relax, gaining an advantage over B for the rematch (because B has to at least try to win over L). But please don't cite me on this, it would mean that I agree with your theory that you can put such "skill labels" on players which I do not.
On February 18 2015 19:54 opisska wrote: 1. I concede that tourneys who schedule two streams anyway could in principle use RR. I couldn't create a 4-man scenario when the problem would occur without knowing the result of the other match. However you should lose the tunnel vision about "players" - optimal for them is in no doubt to get some money from the match and that's directly dependent on the viewer popularity of the tourney. That's just the reality of life I am afraid.
Also I hope that we could at least agree that tourneys should not use >4player RR, right? Because there it gets really, really messy fast.
2. I think this is pretty straightforward, albeit nasty - a player who has nothing to gain could lose on purpose and the advancing player could cut a part of his prize money for him. I am not really trying to accuse anyone of such behaviour, but the opportunity makes the thief. This aside, I still see a big difference of motivation in playing for a shot on the trophy and for a few bucks (in the case your financial incentive solution is used).
3. ad _TNT_ - I am sorry man, but all of this "point" is just a story you made. You purposedly overvalue one of many aspects of the competition to create tension in your scenario. First of all in high-level SC2 there are hardly situations where players of definedly different levels like that.
Also if I wanted to play along with you, I would say that A can just throw (or even forfeit, I think this is allowed in WCS according to the Book of Aeromi) the games against H which he would lose anyway and relax, gaining an advantage over B for the rematch (because B has to at least try to win over L). But please don't cite me on this, it would mean that I agree with your theory that you can put such "skill labels" on players which I do not.
Yes that story is so made-up, so overvalued, so rare that almost EVERY tournaments have it now.
Of course, you can ignore it, call it a curse maybe
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/YCLYGCo.jpg)
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