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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On June 29 2014 04:42 [PkF] Wire wrote:
No one was crying when Protoss never ever won a GSL for so long (it's been 8 consecutive GSL without a Terran victory when 7 GSLs separated MC's second title from Seed's victory). Terran is in a drought, clearly, but I'm pretty sure Terran are going to perform pretty well in the upcoming season.
Oh, and by the way, it's nobody's fault if INnoVatioN choked hard enough not to materialize Terran's last period of "dominance" (I don't like to talk about imbalance). Add to this that INnoVatioN, Bomber won the global seasons and that Maru took the OSL that played GSL role, and we have to tone down this judgement.
Everyone fucking cried and wailed when Protoss never won a GSL. They literally made a sad zealot club.
And it's nobody's fault that Naniwa/Parting/Squirtle/Rain choked hard enough to lose to a man with a broken spine.
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On June 29 2014 05:54 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2014 04:42 [PkF] Wire wrote:
No one was crying when Protoss never ever won a GSL for so long (it's been 8 consecutive GSL without a Terran victory when 7 GSLs separated MC's second title from Seed's victory). Terran is in a drought, clearly, but I'm pretty sure Terran are going to perform pretty well in the upcoming season.
Oh, and by the way, it's nobody's fault if INnoVatioN choked hard enough not to materialize Terran's last period of "dominance" (I don't like to talk about imbalance). Add to this that INnoVatioN, Bomber won the global seasons and that Maru took the OSL that played GSL role, and we have to tone down this judgement. Everyone fucking cried and wailed when Protoss never won a GSL. They literally made a sad zealot club. And it's nobody's fault that Naniwa/Parting/Squirtle/Rain choked hard enough to lose to a man with a broken spine.
Wasn't the joke that Terrans would always fill the top 8 but non-terrans kept winning the first several GSLs almost non-stop?
Fruitdealer, Nestea, MC, MVP, MC, Nestea, etc...
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Back then even Huk and Naniwa were winning tournaments for protoss. Objectively speaking, I don't think anyone would have said they were dominating players that were head and shoulders above the rest of the field.
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Protoss's terrible period had by far the most crying. It was the only time balance whining got endorsed by TL itself. Was pretty much a complete joke. Especially since it only lasted like 3 months. Yeah it was longer than that if you go purely by GSL victories but the time where they were actually severely underrepresented in GSL was like 2 GSLs total then they bounced right back and took 2nd place twice in a row while doing really well in overall representation in each round (something terran isn't doing now). Plus they never actually started doing bad in foreign tournaments. Even when there were only 5 of them in GSL and 0 made the ro8 they were still winning plenty of foreign stuff.
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On June 29 2014 06:35 JJH777 wrote:
Protoss's terrible period had by far the most crying. It was the only time balance whining got endorsed by TL itself. Was pretty much a complete joke. Especially since it only lasted like 3 months. Yeah it was longer than that if you go purely by GSL victories but the time where they were actually severely underrepresented in GSL was like 2 GSLs total then they bounced right back and took 2nd place twice in a row while doing really well in overall representation in each round (something terran isn't doing now). Plus they never actually started doing bad in foreign tournaments. Even when there were only 5 of them in GSL and 0 made the ro8 they were still winning plenty of foreign stuff.
The end of WoL had the most balance whine. It was suppressed on TL to some extent at this point, but quite clearly it was the period with the most dissatisfaction with balance.
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No soO.. Thank you for 7 years! soOjwa fiighting!!
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On June 29 2014 04:52 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2014 04:45 Shellshock wrote:
to say no one was crying when protoss wasn't winning is just wrong. Every period of sc2 has had crying from whatever race wasn't winning. it's not unique to any group True, but I think people tend to have some bias in favor of Terran because the mechanical aspects of the race are more blatant. It's harder to see what makes a good Protoss player, because the differences between a grandmaster and a world class player are subtle, though huge. It's easier to see how good Maru or INnoVatioN are because their good moves are spectacular. Good Protoss moves are often so subtle and decision making based people usually overlook them... Then again, people will always whine and I guess we'll have to deal with that until the end of times.
this is all that needs to be said. people favor terran because it looks more flashy. it is of course their prerogative to like what race they like, but it goes over the line to me when appreciation for terran just turns into hate for everything else, which seems to most often be the case. in most sports the true fans revel in the subtleties of the match, but that does not seem to happen in starcraft. part of it here might be because protoss was relatively flashy in brood war, so the more staid strategic decision making and tactical positioning that define the race in SC2 is given a bad name.
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On June 29 2014 06:02 KingofGods wrote:
Back then even Huk and Naniwa were winning tournaments for protoss. Objectively speaking, I don't think anyone would have said they were dominating players that were head and shoulders above the rest of the field.
they were far and away the best foreigners, though. and if you went by foreign race talent and representation, people would be saying zerg is overpowered right now.
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Bummed for soO losing. I was SKT fan since BW and really wanted soO to win his 1st title even vs teammate. Imagine soO went from 'SKT Zerg' (worst Zerg analogy in BW) to top Zerg in SC II with three back to back finals - if anyone in SC II deserves a title it's soO.
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On June 29 2014 07:12 negativedge wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2014 06:02 KingofGods wrote:
Back then even Huk and Naniwa were winning tournaments for protoss. Objectively speaking, I don't think anyone would have said they were dominating players that were head and shoulders above the rest of the field. they were far and away the best foreigners, though. and if you went by foreign race talent and representation, people would be saying zerg is overpowered right now.
Were they really that much better than Idra, Select, and QXC?
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On June 29 2014 07:25 KingofGods wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2014 07:12 negativedge wrote:On June 29 2014 06:02 KingofGods wrote:
Back then even Huk and Naniwa were winning tournaments for protoss. Objectively speaking, I don't think anyone would have said they were dominating players that were head and shoulders above the rest of the field. they were far and away the best foreigners, though. and if you went by foreign race talent and representation, people would be saying zerg is overpowered right now. Were they really that much better than Idra, Select, and QXC?
Select and QXC? Yes, Idra was always a contender, unfortunately only 1 person can win a tournament (which Idra has won some)
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And only 1 race can win a tournament. How ironic it just so happens to be the same race quite often.
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United States7483 Posts
On June 29 2014 06:35 JJH777 wrote:
Protoss's terrible period had by far the most crying. It was the only time balance whining got endorsed by TL itself. Was pretty much a complete joke. Especially since it only lasted like 3 months. Yeah it was longer than that if you go purely by GSL victories but the time where they were actually severely underrepresented in GSL was like 2 GSLs total then they bounced right back and took 2nd place twice in a row while doing really well in overall representation in each round (something terran isn't doing now). Plus they never actually started doing bad in foreign tournaments. Even when there were only 5 of them in GSL and 0 made the ro8 they were still winning plenty of foreign stuff.
Protoss winrates were down around 30% though at that time, at no other time in the history of WoL or HOTS has a race been doing that poorly. It wasn't just that they weren't winning tournaments, they were getting curbstomped by everyone left and right and had no viable strategies that weren't soul-train.
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stx defeats skt once again..;D
from tvt sniper to GSL winnarrr!!
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On June 29 2014 08:21 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2014 06:35 JJH777 wrote:
Protoss's terrible period had by far the most crying. It was the only time balance whining got endorsed by TL itself. Was pretty much a complete joke. Especially since it only lasted like 3 months. Yeah it was longer than that if you go purely by GSL victories but the time where they were actually severely underrepresented in GSL was like 2 GSLs total then they bounced right back and took 2nd place twice in a row while doing really well in overall representation in each round (something terran isn't doing now). Plus they never actually started doing bad in foreign tournaments. Even when there were only 5 of them in GSL and 0 made the ro8 they were still winning plenty of foreign stuff. Protoss winrates were down around 30% though at that time, at no other time in the history of WoL or HOTS has a race been doing that poorly. It wasn't just that they weren't winning tournaments, they were getting curbstomped by everyone left and right and had no viable strategies that weren't soul-train.
And thanks to Blizzard's patches, the pendulum now swings the other way.
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I paid for this... And didn't get it. I want my money back....
I can't watch the finals......
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On June 29 2014 05:54 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2014 04:42 [PkF] Wire wrote:
No one was crying when Protoss never ever won a GSL for so long (it's been 8 consecutive GSL without a Terran victory when 7 GSLs separated MC's second title from Seed's victory). Terran is in a drought, clearly, but I'm pretty sure Terran are going to perform pretty well in the upcoming season.
Oh, and by the way, it's nobody's fault if INnoVatioN choked hard enough not to materialize Terran's last period of "dominance" (I don't like to talk about imbalance). Add to this that INnoVatioN, Bomber won the global seasons and that Maru took the OSL that played GSL role, and we have to tone down this judgement. Everyone fucking cried and wailed when Protoss never won a GSL. They literally made a sad zealot club. And it's nobody's fault that Naniwa/Parting/Squirtle/Rain choked hard enough to lose to a man with a broken spine.
remember those 2011 GSLs when 23/32 Code S were terrans and 1 toss in ro16. fun days 
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On June 29 2014 08:21 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2014 06:35 JJH777 wrote:
Protoss's terrible period had by far the most crying. It was the only time balance whining got endorsed by TL itself. Was pretty much a complete joke. Especially since it only lasted like 3 months. Yeah it was longer than that if you go purely by GSL victories but the time where they were actually severely underrepresented in GSL was like 2 GSLs total then they bounced right back and took 2nd place twice in a row while doing really well in overall representation in each round (something terran isn't doing now). Plus they never actually started doing bad in foreign tournaments. Even when there were only 5 of them in GSL and 0 made the ro8 they were still winning plenty of foreign stuff. Protoss winrates were down around 30% though at that time, at no other time in the history of WoL or HOTS has a race been doing that poorly. It wasn't just that they weren't winning tournaments, they were getting curbstomped by everyone left and right and had no viable strategies that weren't soul-train.
Umm no. First of all Soultrain was a completely different period and wasn't even popular during Protoss's slump. The slump I'm talking about was late 2011 when the sad zealot fanclub was made and Protoss only had 1 player in the ro16 of GSL. In mid to late 2012 when soultrain was popular protoss wasn't slumping. They had just had the Seed vs MC finals. Parting won 3 tournaments and got 2nd place in the Blizzard cup. They had a few other good results as well.
Second there has never been an era in SC2 where any race was at a 30% win rate. Lowest ever was a 37% win rate in Korean PvT during October 2011. That was based on a small amount of games and in november 2011 they were already back over 50%.
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On June 29 2014 07:51 Zenbrez wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2014 07:25 KingofGods wrote:On June 29 2014 07:12 negativedge wrote:On June 29 2014 06:02 KingofGods wrote:
Back then even Huk and Naniwa were winning tournaments for protoss. Objectively speaking, I don't think anyone would have said they were dominating players that were head and shoulders above the rest of the field. they were far and away the best foreigners, though. and if you went by foreign race talent and representation, people would be saying zerg is overpowered right now. Were they really that much better than Idra, Select, and QXC? Select and QXC? Yes, Idra was always a contender, unfortunately only 1 person can win a tournament (which Idra has won some)
QXC all killed IM when Nestea and MVP were in their primes. Huk lived in Korea for so long and still didn't do much. Did they even let him play in GSTLs when it was EG-Liquid?
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On June 29 2014 09:03 KingofGods wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2014 07:51 Zenbrez wrote:On June 29 2014 07:25 KingofGods wrote:On June 29 2014 07:12 negativedge wrote:On June 29 2014 06:02 KingofGods wrote:
Back then even Huk and Naniwa were winning tournaments for protoss. Objectively speaking, I don't think anyone would have said they were dominating players that were head and shoulders above the rest of the field. they were far and away the best foreigners, though. and if you went by foreign race talent and representation, people would be saying zerg is overpowered right now. Were they really that much better than Idra, Select, and QXC? Select and QXC? Yes, Idra was always a contender, unfortunately only 1 person can win a tournament (which Idra has won some) QXC all killed IM when Nestea and MVP were in their primes. Huk lived in Korea for so long and still didn't do much. Did they even let him play in GSTLs when it was EG-Liquid?
Technically, yes.
It was only 1-2 games, but damn it he got trumped in style!
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EPT
