EPT[DH] Summer 2014 Day 3 - Page 159
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19276 Posts
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kaykoose
United States2302 Posts
On June 17 2014 18:53 Wombat_NI wrote: I was thinking earlier of Taeja's place in the hall of fame of Terrans, he's definitely up there for sure and almost certainly would have him in the top 5 of all time. In no particular order: Mvp - Self explanatory Taeja - Championships with regularity, that IPL TL showing v IM, I also feel he put up decent Korean results in a tough era for Terrans before emigrating. Maru - A beast who has carried his race's hopes in GSL for a pretty damn long period by SC standards. Innovation - The previous Terran hope and a team league monster. IMO scariest player ever at his peak. MMA - For those multiple championships and winning Korean championships alone. Even after that he has slowly climbed back to relevance. Actually harder than I thought, as it seems wrong to not have Polt or Bomber in there  Why couldn't they be in over Maru and Inno? They've won a lot more no? | ||
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Boonbag
France3318 Posts
On June 18 2014 00:05 BisuDagger wrote: The question is, are dreamhacks with taeja worth watching anymore based on expected outcome? always good to see your horse win the race yo | ||
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19276 Posts
On June 18 2014 00:42 kaykoose wrote: Why couldn't they be in over Maru and Inno? They've won a lot more no? I don't see how innovation holds any argument for top 5 all time. He's sucked since the patch. At least Polt and Bomber have proven top tier amongst constant patching and game changing. | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On June 18 2014 00:57 BisuDagger wrote: I don't see how innovation holds any argument for top 5 all time. He's sucked since the patch. At least Polt and Bomber have proven top tier amongst constant patching and game changing. Innovation doesn't suck lol. He destroyed top tier koreans on the dragon invitational 2 times in a row. He has the sickest of record in ATC. He was one of the 4 terrans to qualify in the ro32 GSL and only him and maru reach ro16. While not going out a lot, he did a top4 at DH bucharest, top4 at Asus Rog, top 4 at DH Winter. All of that is post patch ofc. How is that not being the 2nd best in term of result after Taeja since HotS ?  | ||
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Baroninthetree
United States473 Posts
On June 18 2014 01:07 Faust852 wrote: Innovation doesn't suck lol. He destroyed top tier koreans on the dragon invitational 2 times in a row. He has the sickest of record in ATC. He was one of the 4 terrans to qualify in the ro32 GSL and only him and maru reach ro16. While not going out a lot, he did a top4 at DH bucharest, top4 at Asus Rog, top 4 at DH Winter. All of that is post patch ofc. How is that not being the 2nd best in term of result after Taeja since HotS ? Innovation is near-god before patch. But let's be frank, he is just a top-tier terran now, while Polt been top-tier terran throughout SC2 timeline for more than 3 years with many titles. So really no reason for Polt to be behind innovation. | ||
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19276 Posts
On June 18 2014 01:07 Faust852 wrote: Innovation doesn't suck lol. He destroyed top tier koreans on the dragon invitational 2 times in a row. He has the sickest of record in ATC. He was one of the 4 terrans to qualify in the ro32 GSL and only him and maru reach ro16. While not going out a lot, he did a top4 at DH bucharest, top4 at Asus Rog, top 4 at DH Winter. All of that is post patch ofc. How is that not being the 2nd best in term of result after Taeja since HotS ? When comparing him to the terrans who deserve top 5 if we are including all of sc2, he's just not on my radar. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25800 Posts
Carried STX to win Proleague, MVP as Axiom-Acer won GSTL Slight drop off but he's still damn good. I love Polt too don't get me wrong I just think Innovation at his peak was one of the scariest players ever seen in SC2. Maru is holding that mantle right now, I don't think Polt has ever really had that aura of dominance about it, he's a wily tactician and an unbelievable competitor, but Inno pulled out +70% win rates vs solely Korean Zs and Ts (relatively small sample of games) which is near unheard of over any stretch of time. | ||
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HyDrA_solic
Portugal491 Posts
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19276 Posts
On June 18 2014 02:24 Wombat_NI wrote: Inno was one of only Terrans doing anything at the end of WoL in Korea when BL/Infestor was at its zenith. Transitioned incredibly well to HoTS and was scary as fuck. Carried STX to win Proleague, MVP as Axiom-Acer won GSTL Slight drop off but he's still damn good. I love Polt too don't get me wrong I just think Innovation at his peak was one of the scariest players ever seen in SC2. Maru is holding that mantle right now, I don't think Polt has ever really had that aura of dominance about it, he's a wily tactician and an unbelievable competitor, but Inno pulled out +70% win rates vs solely Korean Zs and Ts (relatively small sample of games) which is near unheard of over any stretch of time. Yeah I'll admit innovation was damn good pre patch. It's just his god like aura felt so short. That's just my opinion. I know he has great stats. I'm just more in an ethos mood for this judgement | ||
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imrusty269
United States1404 Posts
On June 18 2014 02:24 Wombat_NI wrote: Inno was one of only Terrans doing anything at the end of WoL in Korea when BL/Infestor was at its zenith. Transitioned incredibly well to HoTS and was scary as fuck. Carried STX to win Proleague, MVP as Axiom-Acer won GSTL Slight drop off but he's still damn good. I love Polt too don't get me wrong I just think Innovation at his peak was one of the scariest players ever seen in SC2. Maru is holding that mantle right now, I don't think Polt has ever really had that aura of dominance about it, he's a wily tactician and an unbelievable competitor, but Inno pulled out +70% win rates vs solely Korean Zs and Ts (relatively small sample of games) which is near unheard of over any stretch of time. You forget Taeja was the actual last man standing in WoL GSL. | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On June 18 2014 02:33 BisuDagger wrote: Yeah I'll admit innovation was damn good pre patch. It's just his god like aura felt so short. That's just my opinion. I know he has great stats. I'm just more in an ethos mood for this judgement I just wanted say that he did not suck :p making him in the top5 HoF might be tricky tho. That's debatable. | ||
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kaykoose
United States2302 Posts
On June 18 2014 02:24 Wombat_NI wrote: Inno was one of only Terrans doing anything at the end of WoL in Korea when BL/Infestor was at its zenith. Transitioned incredibly well to HoTS and was scary as fuck. Carried STX to win Proleague, MVP as Axiom-Acer won GSTL Slight drop off but he's still damn good. I love Polt too don't get me wrong I just think Innovation at his peak was one of the scariest players ever seen in SC2. Maru is holding that mantle right now, I don't think Polt has ever really had that aura of dominance about it, he's a wily tactician and an unbelievable competitor, but Inno pulled out +70% win rates vs solely Korean Zs and Ts (relatively small sample of games) which is near unheard of over any stretch of time. Even though you say you love Polt, this post doesn't seem very objective. You think that Inno being "scarier" over a short time span is enough to put him over a guy who has won 4 more premiers while being elite for the whole duration of SC2? Sorry... I just can't understand that. | ||
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19276 Posts
On June 18 2014 02:44 Faust852 wrote: I just wanted say that he did not suck :p making him in the top5 HoF might be tricky tho. That's debatable. I was the only one being sucky. Don't worry, I got my second coffee going. | ||
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
On June 17 2014 18:53 Wombat_NI wrote: I was thinking earlier of Taeja's place in the hall of fame of Terrans, he's definitely up there for sure and almost certainly would have him in the top 5 of all time. In no particular order: Mvp - Self explanatory Taeja - Championships with regularity, that IPL TL showing v IM, I also feel he put up decent Korean results in a tough era for Terrans before emigrating. Maru - A beast who has carried his race's hopes in GSL for a pretty damn long period by SC standards. Innovation - The previous Terran hope and a team league monster. IMO scariest player ever at his peak. MMA - For those multiple championships and winning Korean championships alone. Even after that he has slowly climbed back to relevance. Actually harder than I thought, as it seems wrong to not have Polt or Bomber in there I think MKP should be somewhere on that list. He sure has fallen from grace recently though. | ||
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Tanzklaue
Germany1414 Posts
On June 18 2014 02:58 royalroadweed wrote: I think MKP should be somewhere on that list. He sure has fallen from grace recently though. he actually is on his way back to graze. slow but steady improvement and he is one of prime's keyplayers. but yea, MKP is definitely one of sc2's most important terrans. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25800 Posts
On June 18 2014 02:55 kaykoose wrote: Even though you say you love Polt, this post doesn't seem very objective. You think that Inno being "scarier" over a short time span is enough to put him over a guy who has won 4 more premiers while being elite for the whole duration of SC2? Sorry... I just can't understand that. In the same way I love HerO, clearly a great player who can best anyone on his day. I just never felt the 'He's going to annihilate this tournament' in the same way. 'Auras' are pretty intangible things so of course I'll be being subjective on that The first couple of GSLs were before my time, I don't really like MKP but I concede he's been a hugely influential player. Mvp had his number in Kr finals, and if we're taking guys cleaning up foreign tournaments both Taeja and Polt would be higher up in that regard. My list is a mix bag in terms of the yardsticks used. Tournaments won and consistency over a period of time (Mvp, Taeja), prestigious achievements (MMA with a GSL and Blizzcon among others) and then two whose peak periods were so high that I felt then merited inclusion (Mvp overlaps here, Maru and Innovation had stretched of time where they have been pretty much beyond dispute as the world's best Terran) MKP comes close and if I used other metrics exclusively, such as consistent play over SC's duration he'd be in. Polt too on other metrics and ofc everyone loves Bomber. | ||
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