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[SPL] KT vs MVP Round 2 2014 - Page 42

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Skynx
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
Turkey7150 Posts
March 11 2014 02:51 GMT
#821
On March 11 2014 08:34 ssxsilver wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 11 2014 07:44 StarStruck wrote:
On March 11 2014 00:50 vthree wrote:
On March 10 2014 23:09 Caihead wrote:
On March 10 2014 22:42 sharkie wrote:
On March 10 2014 22:40 TheDwf wrote:
On March 10 2014 22:38 redviper wrote:
On March 10 2014 21:52 Scarecrow wrote:
On March 10 2014 21:49 sharkie wrote:
On March 10 2014 21:47 Scarecrow wrote:
[quote]
Yeah cause losing a Bo1 Ace match vs a 72% PvT'er in this period for Terran is so terrible -.-


Flash lost also to Stork lol

Keep citing Bo1's.

How about Flash dropping out of Code A? That wasn't a bo1.

You mean like 10 other Terrans who had the level to be in Code S?

On March 10 2014 22:38 sharkie wrote:
On March 10 2014 22:36 TheDwf wrote:
On March 10 2014 22:26 sharkie wrote:
On March 10 2014 21:57 Scarecrow wrote:
[quote]
Bomber lost 2-0 to Arthur but I'm not stupid/trollish enough to think that means much.


Bomber gets the benefit of doubt because he has gotten results before.
Flash is just a very good PL terran, nothing more and only good in TvZ in HOTS

What does this even mean? You can say the same about TY...


Yes, TY hasn't accomplished anything in ILs either.
But no one calls TY god lol

You know very well that this name comes from his BW accomplishments, not the SC2 ones...


I do. I wish KT fans knew that as well.
People keep expecting Flash to win GSLs (yes, multiple ones) and this is annoying.


You do realize it's the casters hyping him up right, God is a nick name for Flash. Hell, Anytime was "Death God". Infact I haven't heard a single caster not refer to Flash as "God", so you might as well lump all of those people as KT/Flash fanboys too.

On March 10 2014 22:49 mongmong wrote:
Flash losing always makes me smile :-). The obnoxiousness of Flash fanboys has always been annoying, at least I won't hear "Flash gonna win GSL " chant for a while


I'm pretty sure I've never ever seen a "Flash is going to win GSL" on this forum, ever. I've seen plenty for ForGG when everyone was hyping him up but that's about the extent of it for Kespa hype.


I guess you weren't here during the KESPA transitional period, there was plenty of GSL hype for Flash, JD, Bisu, Jangbi, Fantasy, Stork.

It was the entire basis for the elephant article. BW S class players were just more 'talented' and they would dominate totally once they switched over.

I think a lot of the anti Flash hate stems from the fact that he was THE elephant and Kespa fanboys weren't exactly friendly during the transition. Not sure if the grudge should be held for that long be hey, Protoss still refer back to the 1-1-1 era and GOMTvT as their defense in balance threads and that was way before the Kespa transition.


I don't know why you people keep referring to Intrigue's article let alone refer to it as only the S Class players? That's tunnel vision. Look at all the other guys who weren't those players and did well. The only substance in that article (and gee golly it's sort of obvious is the competition level goes up because you have these players-- not just the s class guys-- pushing the level of competition). It's a no brainer.

Even w/o that article, I half expected Flash to moonwalk his way to a GSL trophy with the way some posters are posting. That said, I'm bummed at his stagnation. Every form of entertainment thrives off star power and Flash is the biggest active name, not the mention a really cool dude.


+ Show Spoiler [ BIG disclaimer] +
I'm talking only SC2 here, not BW


I speak on my behalf but I'm sure others like me who wasn't around in the BW era will say that Flash (and his play) has nothing to hype for. He was never as dominant as Innovation who was nearly unbeatable and crushed everyone we called one of the best. His play is not as exciting as Maru's combat micro or Gumiho's crisis management. He will never nuke his own army or blind his opponent with scans like Bomber. He is just not the player that can cheese in the GSL finals decider game and go even more all-in after it fails.

I was not surprised when he finished group of death last or continued his ro16 struggle. He is a very solid terran who plays very safe and calculated build orders with perfect macro, but he just can't go beyond that. He can send a drop, pull the army, snipe a base, get out yea but can you really expect him to snipe 4 nexus in less than a minute? I don't believe he has that one critical edge at whatever element that makes a huge impact on the game play and makes the GSL winning difference.
"When seagulls follow the troller, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea. Thank you very much" - King Cantona | STX 4 eva
senqa
Profile Joined January 2013
Australia17 Posts
March 11 2014 03:47 GMT
#822
On March 11 2014 11:51 Skynx wrote:
+ Show Spoiler [ BIG disclaimer] +
I'm talking only SC2 here, not BW


I speak on my behalf but I'm sure others like me who wasn't around in the BW era will say that Flash (and his play) has nothing to hype for. He was never as dominant as Innovation who was nearly unbeatable and crushed everyone we called one of the best. His play is not as exciting as Maru's combat micro or Gumiho's crisis management. He will never nuke his own army or blind his opponent with scans like Bomber. He is just not the player that can cheese in the GSL finals decider game and go even more all-in after it fails.

I was not surprised when he finished group of death last or continued his ro16 struggle. He is a very solid terran who plays very safe and calculated build orders with perfect macro, but he just can't go beyond that. He can send a drop, pull the army, snipe a base, get out yea but can you really expect him to snipe 4 nexus in less than a minute? I don't believe he has that one critical edge at whatever element that makes a huge impact on the game play and makes the GSL winning difference.


I would have to completely disagree.

Love him or hate him flash has a huge presence and personality in and out of the game that is apparent the moment he enters.

It seems his success in BW has also been his burden in sc2. He has produced some extremely exciting games in sc2 against some of the best players and his overall win loss ratio has been consistent, but without any tournaments under his belt he will always fall far below the high expectations from fans and will continue to receive very harsh criticism.

LuckoftheIrish
Profile Joined November 2011
United States4791 Posts
March 11 2014 04:30 GMT
#823
He has a huge presence and personality if you're familiar with him from Brood War. For someone who doesn't have that background, he's basically aLive if everyone talked about how great aLive was all the time.
On Twitter @GosuGamers_LotI | Grubby has a huge head!
Caihead
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada8550 Posts
March 11 2014 04:48 GMT
#824
On March 11 2014 11:17 vthree wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 11 2014 07:44 StarStruck wrote:
On March 11 2014 00:50 vthree wrote:
On March 10 2014 23:09 Caihead wrote:
On March 10 2014 22:42 sharkie wrote:
On March 10 2014 22:40 TheDwf wrote:
On March 10 2014 22:38 redviper wrote:
On March 10 2014 21:52 Scarecrow wrote:
On March 10 2014 21:49 sharkie wrote:
On March 10 2014 21:47 Scarecrow wrote:
[quote]
Yeah cause losing a Bo1 Ace match vs a 72% PvT'er in this period for Terran is so terrible -.-


Flash lost also to Stork lol

Keep citing Bo1's.

How about Flash dropping out of Code A? That wasn't a bo1.

You mean like 10 other Terrans who had the level to be in Code S?

On March 10 2014 22:38 sharkie wrote:
On March 10 2014 22:36 TheDwf wrote:
On March 10 2014 22:26 sharkie wrote:
On March 10 2014 21:57 Scarecrow wrote:
[quote]
Bomber lost 2-0 to Arthur but I'm not stupid/trollish enough to think that means much.


Bomber gets the benefit of doubt because he has gotten results before.
Flash is just a very good PL terran, nothing more and only good in TvZ in HOTS

What does this even mean? You can say the same about TY...


Yes, TY hasn't accomplished anything in ILs either.
But no one calls TY god lol

You know very well that this name comes from his BW accomplishments, not the SC2 ones...


I do. I wish KT fans knew that as well.
People keep expecting Flash to win GSLs (yes, multiple ones) and this is annoying.


You do realize it's the casters hyping him up right, God is a nick name for Flash. Hell, Anytime was "Death God". Infact I haven't heard a single caster not refer to Flash as "God", so you might as well lump all of those people as KT/Flash fanboys too.

On March 10 2014 22:49 mongmong wrote:
Flash losing always makes me smile :-). The obnoxiousness of Flash fanboys has always been annoying, at least I won't hear "Flash gonna win GSL " chant for a while


I'm pretty sure I've never ever seen a "Flash is going to win GSL" on this forum, ever. I've seen plenty for ForGG when everyone was hyping him up but that's about the extent of it for Kespa hype.


I guess you weren't here during the KESPA transitional period, there was plenty of GSL hype for Flash, JD, Bisu, Jangbi, Fantasy, Stork.

It was the entire basis for the elephant article. BW S class players were just more 'talented' and they would dominate totally once they switched over.

I think a lot of the anti Flash hate stems from the fact that he was THE elephant and Kespa fanboys weren't exactly friendly during the transition. Not sure if the grudge should be held for that long be hey, Protoss still refer back to the 1-1-1 era and GOMTvT as their defense in balance threads and that was way before the Kespa transition.


I don't know why you people keep referring to Intrigue's article let alone refer to it as only the S Class players? That's tunnel vision. Look at all the other guys who weren't those players and did well. The only substance in that article (and gee golly it's sort of obvious is the competition level goes up because you have these players-- not just the s class guys-- pushing the level of competition). It's a no brainer.


Because that article was the rallying cry of some of the Kespa fans during the transition. There was a lot of elephant pictures posted whenever a Kespa player won vs eSF. Of course it was a no brainer that competition level would be higher and a lot of the Kespa pros would do well. I don't think any eSF fans at that time was trying to say that eSF players would dominate Kespa. However, there was a pretty significant number of Kespa fans that predicted Code S would be 30/32 Kespa players in a few months. The peak of this came when Kespa players went on a big winning streak during the WCG qualifiers.

A lot of eSF fans didn't appreciate our favorite players being called garbage and dish washers.


Why you gotta hide from the truth, alot of Kespa A-teamers were dishwashers, infact basically everyone Kespa was a dishwasher at one point, where as most of the eSF players never had to wash dishes because they have people who do it for them. They even talk about it in Nalra's oldboy. People only called people dishwashers because they literally were if they passed from the Kespa tradition, nobody used it as an insult, only as a joke. Players themselves got some mileage doing ceremonies and trash-talking each other based on it ffs. So I don't see how any informed observer can see that as an insult towards eSF, at best it can be construed as an insult towards former Kespa players who hopped over to SC2 instead of playing BW.
"If you're not living in the US or are a US Citizen, please do not tell us how to vote or how you want our country to be governed." - Serpest, American Hero
helius788
Profile Joined July 2012
New Zealand74 Posts
March 11 2014 04:51 GMT
#825
Just watched the games on youtube. I don't want to be mean, but maaaaaan Wolf and the other guy misjudge so many games I feel. Sorry for these words. I want to appreciate their work and effort, but especially regarding the Terran games (TY vs Super and both Flash games) I want to mute the commentary.
senqa
Profile Joined January 2013
Australia17 Posts
March 11 2014 05:32 GMT
#826
On March 11 2014 13:30 LuckoftheIrish wrote:
He has a huge presence and personality if you're familiar with him from Brood War. For someone who doesn't have that background, he's basically aLive if everyone talked about how great aLive was all the time.


fair enough. I have yet to see the magic many speak of in some of the veteran sc2 players, but that is to be expected until i witness it for myself.
vthree
Profile Joined November 2011
Hong Kong8039 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-11 06:23:45
March 11 2014 06:16 GMT
#827
On March 11 2014 13:48 Caihead wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 11 2014 11:17 vthree wrote:
On March 11 2014 07:44 StarStruck wrote:
On March 11 2014 00:50 vthree wrote:
On March 10 2014 23:09 Caihead wrote:
On March 10 2014 22:42 sharkie wrote:
On March 10 2014 22:40 TheDwf wrote:
On March 10 2014 22:38 redviper wrote:
On March 10 2014 21:52 Scarecrow wrote:
On March 10 2014 21:49 sharkie wrote:
[quote]

Flash lost also to Stork lol

Keep citing Bo1's.

How about Flash dropping out of Code A? That wasn't a bo1.

You mean like 10 other Terrans who had the level to be in Code S?

On March 10 2014 22:38 sharkie wrote:
On March 10 2014 22:36 TheDwf wrote:
On March 10 2014 22:26 sharkie wrote:
[quote]

Bomber gets the benefit of doubt because he has gotten results before.
Flash is just a very good PL terran, nothing more and only good in TvZ in HOTS

What does this even mean? You can say the same about TY...


Yes, TY hasn't accomplished anything in ILs either.
But no one calls TY god lol

You know very well that this name comes from his BW accomplishments, not the SC2 ones...


I do. I wish KT fans knew that as well.
People keep expecting Flash to win GSLs (yes, multiple ones) and this is annoying.


You do realize it's the casters hyping him up right, God is a nick name for Flash. Hell, Anytime was "Death God". Infact I haven't heard a single caster not refer to Flash as "God", so you might as well lump all of those people as KT/Flash fanboys too.

On March 10 2014 22:49 mongmong wrote:
Flash losing always makes me smile :-). The obnoxiousness of Flash fanboys has always been annoying, at least I won't hear "Flash gonna win GSL " chant for a while


I'm pretty sure I've never ever seen a "Flash is going to win GSL" on this forum, ever. I've seen plenty for ForGG when everyone was hyping him up but that's about the extent of it for Kespa hype.


I guess you weren't here during the KESPA transitional period, there was plenty of GSL hype for Flash, JD, Bisu, Jangbi, Fantasy, Stork.

It was the entire basis for the elephant article. BW S class players were just more 'talented' and they would dominate totally once they switched over.

I think a lot of the anti Flash hate stems from the fact that he was THE elephant and Kespa fanboys weren't exactly friendly during the transition. Not sure if the grudge should be held for that long be hey, Protoss still refer back to the 1-1-1 era and GOMTvT as their defense in balance threads and that was way before the Kespa transition.


I don't know why you people keep referring to Intrigue's article let alone refer to it as only the S Class players? That's tunnel vision. Look at all the other guys who weren't those players and did well. The only substance in that article (and gee golly it's sort of obvious is the competition level goes up because you have these players-- not just the s class guys-- pushing the level of competition). It's a no brainer.


Because that article was the rallying cry of some of the Kespa fans during the transition. There was a lot of elephant pictures posted whenever a Kespa player won vs eSF. Of course it was a no brainer that competition level would be higher and a lot of the Kespa pros would do well. I don't think any eSF fans at that time was trying to say that eSF players would dominate Kespa. However, there was a pretty significant number of Kespa fans that predicted Code S would be 30/32 Kespa players in a few months. The peak of this came when Kespa players went on a big winning streak during the WCG qualifiers.

A lot of eSF fans didn't appreciate our favorite players being called garbage and dish washers.


Why you gotta hide from the truth, alot of Kespa A-teamers were dishwashers, infact basically everyone Kespa was a dishwasher at one point, where as most of the eSF players never had to wash dishes because they have people who do it for them. They even talk about it in Nalra's oldboy. People only called people dishwashers because they literally were if they passed from the Kespa tradition, nobody used it as an insult, only as a joke. Players themselves got some mileage doing ceremonies and trash-talking each other based on it ffs. So I don't see how any informed observer can see that as an insult towards eSF, at best it can be construed as an insult towards former Kespa players who hopped over to SC2 instead of playing BW.


I don't mean the Kespa players themselves, for the pro players, it was banter/trashtalk. It was the Kespa fanboys' action on the board that eSF fans didn't appreciate. If you didn't think posters here used dishwashers as an insult, then I don't know what to say.

From your previous comments, either you weren't around much during that time or you just choose to ignore a lot of the more extreme comments (there was plenty of 'Flash will win GSLs'). I am just trying to explain why Flash is getting some of the backlash created by his 'fans'. Not saying that it is right since Flash didn't do anything, but just trying to explain the cause.
esdf
Profile Joined December 2012
Croatia736 Posts
March 11 2014 11:05 GMT
#828
so, anyone still wanna dispute me on Flash slumping?
why do you not believe it? the legend has alived!
sharkie
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Austria18455 Posts
March 11 2014 19:18 GMT
#829
On March 11 2014 20:05 esdf wrote:
so, anyone still wanna dispute me on Flash slumping?


to be slumping you need to have had a high, its just regular Flash performing at his level
FrostedMiniWheats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States30730 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-11 19:29:08
March 11 2014 19:28 GMT
#830
On March 12 2014 04:18 sharkie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 11 2014 20:05 esdf wrote:
so, anyone still wanna dispute me on Flash slumping?


to be slumping you need to have had a high, its just regular Flash performing at his level


idk man, he usually dies horribly in the ro16 at least. Maybe he's got a girlfriend
NesTea | Mvp | MC | Leenock | Losira | Gumiho | DRG | Taeja | Jinro | Stephano | Thorzain | Sen | Idra |Polt | Bomber | Symbol | Squirtle | Fantasy | Jaedong | Maru | sOs | Seed | ByuN | ByuL | Neeb| Scarlett | Rogue | IM forever
Darkhorse
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States23455 Posts
March 11 2014 20:42 GMT
#831
On March 11 2014 13:30 LuckoftheIrish wrote:
He has a huge presence and personality if you're familiar with him from Brood War. For someone who doesn't have that background, he's basically aLive if everyone talked about how great aLive was all the time.

I think I'm the only one that does this.
WriterRecently Necro'd (?)
theMagus
Profile Joined February 2013
578 Posts
March 11 2014 23:33 GMT
#832
On March 10 2014 22:49 mongmong wrote:
Flash losing always makes me smile :-). The obnoxiousness of Flash fanboys has always been annoying, at least I won't hear "Flash gonna win GSL " chant for a while


flash gonna win gsl man.
"Give away the stone. Let the oceans take and transmutate this cold and fated anchor. Let the waters kiss and transmutate these leaden grudges into gold. Let go."
Tamagoshi
Profile Joined September 2012
Brazil981 Posts
March 11 2014 23:58 GMT
#833
So, any news about Moonglade casting Proleague?
bo1b
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
Australia12814 Posts
March 12 2014 01:56 GMT
#834
On March 11 2014 11:51 Skynx wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 11 2014 08:34 ssxsilver wrote:
On March 11 2014 07:44 StarStruck wrote:
On March 11 2014 00:50 vthree wrote:
On March 10 2014 23:09 Caihead wrote:
On March 10 2014 22:42 sharkie wrote:
On March 10 2014 22:40 TheDwf wrote:
On March 10 2014 22:38 redviper wrote:
On March 10 2014 21:52 Scarecrow wrote:
On March 10 2014 21:49 sharkie wrote:
[quote]

Flash lost also to Stork lol

Keep citing Bo1's.

How about Flash dropping out of Code A? That wasn't a bo1.

You mean like 10 other Terrans who had the level to be in Code S?

On March 10 2014 22:38 sharkie wrote:
On March 10 2014 22:36 TheDwf wrote:
On March 10 2014 22:26 sharkie wrote:
[quote]

Bomber gets the benefit of doubt because he has gotten results before.
Flash is just a very good PL terran, nothing more and only good in TvZ in HOTS

What does this even mean? You can say the same about TY...


Yes, TY hasn't accomplished anything in ILs either.
But no one calls TY god lol

You know very well that this name comes from his BW accomplishments, not the SC2 ones...


I do. I wish KT fans knew that as well.
People keep expecting Flash to win GSLs (yes, multiple ones) and this is annoying.


You do realize it's the casters hyping him up right, God is a nick name for Flash. Hell, Anytime was "Death God". Infact I haven't heard a single caster not refer to Flash as "God", so you might as well lump all of those people as KT/Flash fanboys too.

On March 10 2014 22:49 mongmong wrote:
Flash losing always makes me smile :-). The obnoxiousness of Flash fanboys has always been annoying, at least I won't hear "Flash gonna win GSL " chant for a while


I'm pretty sure I've never ever seen a "Flash is going to win GSL" on this forum, ever. I've seen plenty for ForGG when everyone was hyping him up but that's about the extent of it for Kespa hype.


I guess you weren't here during the KESPA transitional period, there was plenty of GSL hype for Flash, JD, Bisu, Jangbi, Fantasy, Stork.

It was the entire basis for the elephant article. BW S class players were just more 'talented' and they would dominate totally once they switched over.

I think a lot of the anti Flash hate stems from the fact that he was THE elephant and Kespa fanboys weren't exactly friendly during the transition. Not sure if the grudge should be held for that long be hey, Protoss still refer back to the 1-1-1 era and GOMTvT as their defense in balance threads and that was way before the Kespa transition.


I don't know why you people keep referring to Intrigue's article let alone refer to it as only the S Class players? That's tunnel vision. Look at all the other guys who weren't those players and did well. The only substance in that article (and gee golly it's sort of obvious is the competition level goes up because you have these players-- not just the s class guys-- pushing the level of competition). It's a no brainer.

Even w/o that article, I half expected Flash to moonwalk his way to a GSL trophy with the way some posters are posting. That said, I'm bummed at his stagnation. Every form of entertainment thrives off star power and Flash is the biggest active name, not the mention a really cool dude.


+ Show Spoiler [ BIG disclaimer] +
I'm talking only SC2 here, not BW


I speak on my behalf but I'm sure others like me who wasn't around in the BW era will say that Flash (and his play) has nothing to hype for. He was never as dominant as Innovation who was nearly unbeatable and crushed everyone we called one of the best. His play is not as exciting as Maru's combat micro or Gumiho's crisis management. He will never nuke his own army or blind his opponent with scans like Bomber. He is just not the player that can cheese in the GSL finals decider game and go even more all-in after it fails.

I was not surprised when he finished group of death last or continued his ro16 struggle. He is a very solid terran who plays very safe and calculated build orders with perfect macro, but he just can't go beyond that. He can send a drop, pull the army, snipe a base, get out yea but can you really expect him to snipe 4 nexus in less than a minute? I don't believe he has that one critical edge at whatever element that makes a huge impact on the game play and makes the GSL winning difference.

I don't really agree with this, there were moments towards the start of the year when his multi tasking and micro was fantastic, his match vs rain (on akilon from memory) where he dismantled rain through drops was impressive as hell, his tvz's back when 4m was still viable was amazing - being one of the very few terrans that could really pull off 21 3cc into parade push (that game vs choya hyvaa on newkirk was a fantastic display), him looking ready to win mlg before life activated god mode was a fantastic display.

If anything he hasn't just stagnated, he's gone backwards.
alexanderzero
Profile Joined June 2008
United States659 Posts
March 13 2014 03:52 GMT
#835
On March 11 2014 11:51 Skynx wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 11 2014 08:34 ssxsilver wrote:
On March 11 2014 07:44 StarStruck wrote:
On March 11 2014 00:50 vthree wrote:
On March 10 2014 23:09 Caihead wrote:
On March 10 2014 22:42 sharkie wrote:
On March 10 2014 22:40 TheDwf wrote:
On March 10 2014 22:38 redviper wrote:
On March 10 2014 21:52 Scarecrow wrote:
On March 10 2014 21:49 sharkie wrote:
[quote]

Flash lost also to Stork lol

Keep citing Bo1's.

How about Flash dropping out of Code A? That wasn't a bo1.

You mean like 10 other Terrans who had the level to be in Code S?

On March 10 2014 22:38 sharkie wrote:
On March 10 2014 22:36 TheDwf wrote:
On March 10 2014 22:26 sharkie wrote:
[quote]

Bomber gets the benefit of doubt because he has gotten results before.
Flash is just a very good PL terran, nothing more and only good in TvZ in HOTS

What does this even mean? You can say the same about TY...


Yes, TY hasn't accomplished anything in ILs either.
But no one calls TY god lol

You know very well that this name comes from his BW accomplishments, not the SC2 ones...


I do. I wish KT fans knew that as well.
People keep expecting Flash to win GSLs (yes, multiple ones) and this is annoying.


You do realize it's the casters hyping him up right, God is a nick name for Flash. Hell, Anytime was "Death God". Infact I haven't heard a single caster not refer to Flash as "God", so you might as well lump all of those people as KT/Flash fanboys too.

On March 10 2014 22:49 mongmong wrote:
Flash losing always makes me smile :-). The obnoxiousness of Flash fanboys has always been annoying, at least I won't hear "Flash gonna win GSL " chant for a while


I'm pretty sure I've never ever seen a "Flash is going to win GSL" on this forum, ever. I've seen plenty for ForGG when everyone was hyping him up but that's about the extent of it for Kespa hype.


I guess you weren't here during the KESPA transitional period, there was plenty of GSL hype for Flash, JD, Bisu, Jangbi, Fantasy, Stork.

It was the entire basis for the elephant article. BW S class players were just more 'talented' and they would dominate totally once they switched over.

I think a lot of the anti Flash hate stems from the fact that he was THE elephant and Kespa fanboys weren't exactly friendly during the transition. Not sure if the grudge should be held for that long be hey, Protoss still refer back to the 1-1-1 era and GOMTvT as their defense in balance threads and that was way before the Kespa transition.


I don't know why you people keep referring to Intrigue's article let alone refer to it as only the S Class players? That's tunnel vision. Look at all the other guys who weren't those players and did well. The only substance in that article (and gee golly it's sort of obvious is the competition level goes up because you have these players-- not just the s class guys-- pushing the level of competition). It's a no brainer.

Even w/o that article, I half expected Flash to moonwalk his way to a GSL trophy with the way some posters are posting. That said, I'm bummed at his stagnation. Every form of entertainment thrives off star power and Flash is the biggest active name, not the mention a really cool dude.


+ Show Spoiler [ BIG disclaimer] +
I'm talking only SC2 here, not BW


I speak on my behalf but I'm sure others like me who wasn't around in the BW era will say that Flash (and his play) has nothing to hype for. He was never as dominant as Innovation who was nearly unbeatable and crushed everyone we called one of the best. His play is not as exciting as Maru's combat micro or Gumiho's crisis management. He will never nuke his own army or blind his opponent with scans like Bomber. He is just not the player that can cheese in the GSL finals decider game and go even more all-in after it fails.

I was not surprised when he finished group of death last or continued his ro16 struggle. He is a very solid terran who plays very safe and calculated build orders with perfect macro, but he just can't go beyond that. He can send a drop, pull the army, snipe a base, get out yea but can you really expect him to snipe 4 nexus in less than a minute? I don't believe he has that one critical edge at whatever element that makes a huge impact on the game play and makes the GSL winning difference.


Flash won so many tournaments in Brood War after 10 years of metagame development. I wouldn't count him out so easily. This was a metagame that was very advanced, filled with tons of cheeses and timing attacks, and a scene full of one trick ponies who made their names doing wonky builds that people would die to even if they'd been preparing for weeks. Then there were the established gods of the game like Jaedong, Fantasy, Bisu, Stork, Jangbi, etc...

I will say that I'm dissapointed in Flash's lack of evolution, especially in TvP right now where all the other Terrans have been hitting timings, making new unit compositions, and even successfully cheesing (TY is such a boss!). However, the metagame is in a very unfortunate state for Flash at the moment. There isn't really a solid theory for how late game TvP is supposed to be played. It's not that Flash isn't capable of cheesing or doing timings or whatever, but that he is still searching for that perfect overall strategy that, when executed correctly, simply doesn't lose.

Contrary to a lot of people's opinions, I still see improvement in Flash's play. Flash has one of the most solid early games of any Terran player. In each of his matches he starts out with some fantastic metagaming, and again contrary to a lot of people's opinions: very creative, in-the-moment tactical plays. However going into the mid and late game Flash seems not have it mapped out very well. This is probably because the SC2 metagame is just evolving too quickly to develop a strong map of the later stages of the game. But I do think Flash's map of the early game is already pretty excellent.

We're still given slight glimpses at Flash's genius. He did lose to Super but he made a couple nice plays that I enjoyed to watch. First was his obnoxious oracle defense, and second was his fake retreat into doom drop onto Super's third base.

If there is any player that I have faith in to still be producing consistent results a year from now - it's Flash. As the SC2 metagame trends towards maturity, he will slowly rise through the ranks.
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