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On December 08 2013 14:42 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2013 14:16 partydude89 wrote:On December 08 2013 13:37 ETisME wrote:
Even if he didn't get food poisoning from the pub, the fact that he goes to a pub, post a photo just the night before the tournament is a dumb move.
Going to pub and grabbing one beer or more certainly should not be the attitude if you are going to compete on the next day.
Not to mention drinking will have a negative impact onto your digestive system, it might not have caused it, it certainly made it worse in one way.
its so easy for people to say in hindsight "oh he shouldn't of gone out in all." But i'm sure he, like all other normal human beings, probably just wanted to go out with friends, have fun, and possibly have a beer or two. i don't know how its "dumb" to post a picture of you going to pub the day before an online tournament. if he had posted a video of himself getting totally hammered or something then i could see it being a dumb move, but he can't post a picture of himself going out with friends? Um. Except he has a tournament to attain the next day? I am sure a normal human being would set his priority straight and be prepared for the match instead of posting photo of him chilling the night before a competition, especially when he is a figurehead, branded with one of the biggest esport team, then go on being ill and can't play in the tournament? And it is dumb to post that photo because he has a tournament to play the next day. Instead of showing how hard working he is, he shows us one reason why he didn't play or didn't give all his best. even uni students would not post them hanging out in bar the night before their final, they would post photos of how crowded the library is or the study notes all over the desk. Is it really hard for normal people to tell their friend that he has a tournament to play tomorrow and so he should he focusing on that first?
This is super patronizing. Do people seriously think that being a pro player means devoting 100% of all of your time to preparing for a match or have this idea that if you are doing something other than practicing Starcraft that you are somehow not taking things seriously?
Here's the thing, practice the night before a match isn't going to help you that much. You make a comparison to a university final, and the two things are completely different. Taking a normal university exam is exercising your medium-term memory, that's why studying the night before helps. Starcraft doesn't test your medium or short term preparation, it tests your long term preparation. This point should be pretty obvious because players like Scarlett, Bomber, and Jaedong just demonstrated that they can travel around the globe and show good results.
A better university analogy would be to PhD qualifier exams. When I took those, I did 0 studying the weekend before the exam, because my professors specifically told me to not study-- I had spent the previous 3 months studying non-stop. It was far more important to rest my mind and get mentally prepared for this test of long-term memory. Starcraft is likely very similar where plenty of pro players will tell stories of doing things to relax before big games. After all, the work has already been done and put in. An extra 3 hours of practice isn't going to make a big difference in your play; it could possibly even hurt it. Getting yourself into a relaxed state of mind is by far the most important thing that a player can do.
In this case if Demu had a drink or two with some friends, then so what? The only thing I could potentially fault him for is if he actually threw caution to the wind and ended up getting completely drunk to the point where he would be hungover the next day; that would be something worth disapproving of. However, there is a lot of room between having a drink or two and binge drinking. I'd think that if he was sloppy drunk the night before a match, EG would take some disciplinary action because it is in their best interests to have their players in top form for matches. If Demuslim got food poisoning or some other sickness, then that is a random event unrelated to any decisions that he made and would warrant no further action.
The whole "you shouldn't have gone to a bar the night before a match" really doesn't show an understanding of what players lives are actually like or what going to a bar actually entails.
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On December 08 2013 15:23 Branman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2013 14:42 ETisME wrote:On December 08 2013 14:16 partydude89 wrote:On December 08 2013 13:37 ETisME wrote:
Even if he didn't get food poisoning from the pub, the fact that he goes to a pub, post a photo just the night before the tournament is a dumb move.
Going to pub and grabbing one beer or more certainly should not be the attitude if you are going to compete on the next day.
Not to mention drinking will have a negative impact onto your digestive system, it might not have caused it, it certainly made it worse in one way.
its so easy for people to say in hindsight "oh he shouldn't of gone out in all." But i'm sure he, like all other normal human beings, probably just wanted to go out with friends, have fun, and possibly have a beer or two. i don't know how its "dumb" to post a picture of you going to pub the day before an online tournament. if he had posted a video of himself getting totally hammered or something then i could see it being a dumb move, but he can't post a picture of himself going out with friends? Um. Except he has a tournament to attain the next day? I am sure a normal human being would set his priority straight and be prepared for the match instead of posting photo of him chilling the night before a competition, especially when he is a figurehead, branded with one of the biggest esport team, then go on being ill and can't play in the tournament? And it is dumb to post that photo because he has a tournament to play the next day. Instead of showing how hard working he is, he shows us one reason why he didn't play or didn't give all his best. even uni students would not post them hanging out in bar the night before their final, they would post photos of how crowded the library is or the study notes all over the desk. Is it really hard for normal people to tell their friend that he has a tournament to play tomorrow and so he should he focusing on that first? This is super patronizing. Do people seriously think that being a pro player means devoting 100% of all of your time to preparing for a match or have this idea that if you are doing something other than practicing Starcraft that you are somehow not taking things seriously? Here's the thing, practice the night before a match isn't going to help you that much. You make a comparison to a university final, and the two things are completely different. Taking a normal university exam is exercising your medium-term memory, that's why studying the night before helps. Starcraft doesn't test your medium or short term preparation, it tests your long term preparation. This point should be pretty obvious because players like Scarlett, Bomber, and Jaedong just demonstrated that they can travel around the globe and show good results. A better university analogy would be to PhD qualifier exams. When I took those, I did 0 studying the weekend before the exam, because my professors specifically told me to not study-- I had spent the previous 3 months studying non-stop. It was far more important to rest my mind and get mentally prepared for this test of long-term memory. Starcraft is likely very similar where plenty of pro players will tell stories of doing things to relax before big games. After all, the work has already been done and put in. An extra 3 hours of practice isn't going to make a big difference in your play; it could possibly even hurt it. Getting yourself into a relaxed state of mind is by far the most important thing that a player can do. In this case if Demu had a drink or two with some friends, then so what? The only thing I could potentially fault him for is if he actually threw caution to the wind and ended up getting completely drunk to the point where he would be hungover the next day; that would be something worth disapproving of. However, there is a lot of room between having a drink or two and binge drinking. I'd think that if he was sloppy drunk the night before a match, EG would take some disciplinary action because it is in their best interests to have their players in top form for matches. If Demuslim got food poisoning or some other sickness, then that is a random event unrelated to any decisions that he made and would warrant no further action. The whole "you shouldn't have gone to a bar the night before a match" really doesn't show an understanding of what players lives are actually like or what going to a bar actually entails.
I think it looks bad. His job is to win games in the name of EG. He doesn't get a lot of chances to do that so ya he should have been more responsible. Imagine going to work and being 2 hung over to work you will get fired.
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On December 08 2013 16:13 HeeroFX wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2013 15:23 Branman wrote:On December 08 2013 14:42 ETisME wrote:On December 08 2013 14:16 partydude89 wrote:On December 08 2013 13:37 ETisME wrote:
Even if he didn't get food poisoning from the pub, the fact that he goes to a pub, post a photo just the night before the tournament is a dumb move.
Going to pub and grabbing one beer or more certainly should not be the attitude if you are going to compete on the next day.
Not to mention drinking will have a negative impact onto your digestive system, it might not have caused it, it certainly made it worse in one way.
its so easy for people to say in hindsight "oh he shouldn't of gone out in all." But i'm sure he, like all other normal human beings, probably just wanted to go out with friends, have fun, and possibly have a beer or two. i don't know how its "dumb" to post a picture of you going to pub the day before an online tournament. if he had posted a video of himself getting totally hammered or something then i could see it being a dumb move, but he can't post a picture of himself going out with friends? Um. Except he has a tournament to attain the next day? I am sure a normal human being would set his priority straight and be prepared for the match instead of posting photo of him chilling the night before a competition, especially when he is a figurehead, branded with one of the biggest esport team, then go on being ill and can't play in the tournament? And it is dumb to post that photo because he has a tournament to play the next day. Instead of showing how hard working he is, he shows us one reason why he didn't play or didn't give all his best. even uni students would not post them hanging out in bar the night before their final, they would post photos of how crowded the library is or the study notes all over the desk. Is it really hard for normal people to tell their friend that he has a tournament to play tomorrow and so he should he focusing on that first? This is super patronizing. Do people seriously think that being a pro player means devoting 100% of all of your time to preparing for a match or have this idea that if you are doing something other than practicing Starcraft that you are somehow not taking things seriously? Here's the thing, practice the night before a match isn't going to help you that much. You make a comparison to a university final, and the two things are completely different. Taking a normal university exam is exercising your medium-term memory, that's why studying the night before helps. Starcraft doesn't test your medium or short term preparation, it tests your long term preparation. This point should be pretty obvious because players like Scarlett, Bomber, and Jaedong just demonstrated that they can travel around the globe and show good results. A better university analogy would be to PhD qualifier exams. When I took those, I did 0 studying the weekend before the exam, because my professors specifically told me to not study-- I had spent the previous 3 months studying non-stop. It was far more important to rest my mind and get mentally prepared for this test of long-term memory. Starcraft is likely very similar where plenty of pro players will tell stories of doing things to relax before big games. After all, the work has already been done and put in. An extra 3 hours of practice isn't going to make a big difference in your play; it could possibly even hurt it. Getting yourself into a relaxed state of mind is by far the most important thing that a player can do. In this case if Demu had a drink or two with some friends, then so what? The only thing I could potentially fault him for is if he actually threw caution to the wind and ended up getting completely drunk to the point where he would be hungover the next day; that would be something worth disapproving of. However, there is a lot of room between having a drink or two and binge drinking. I'd think that if he was sloppy drunk the night before a match, EG would take some disciplinary action because it is in their best interests to have their players in top form for matches. If Demuslim got food poisoning or some other sickness, then that is a random event unrelated to any decisions that he made and would warrant no further action. The whole "you shouldn't have gone to a bar the night before a match" really doesn't show an understanding of what players lives are actually like or what going to a bar actually entails. I think it looks bad. His job is to win games in the name of EG. He doesn't get a lot of chances to do that so ya he should have been more responsible. Imagine going to work and being 2 hung over to work you will get fired.
That's assuming he was hung over. That's a pretty big assumption. I even said that if he was hung over, that should be grounds for some disciplinary action (a fine or suspension, EG has done that before with Stephano and Idra). However, there's a huge gulf between going out to a bar and winding up hungover. Drinking isn't a binary thing. Assuming he only had a beer or two, I don't know what he could have done which would have been 'more responsible.'
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Wait so Scarlett/Hitman was delayed a day (totally understandable, good guy Hitman). But then Major AND Demuslim forfeit halfway through the series? What happened? Must have been a short-ass stream.
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Umm a lot of pros actually say they would study up their opponent or practising with practice partner instead of going out to relax..
I don't know where you got the impression from.
Read up the KR interviews, some pros even complain about the lack of practise partner or thank you their partner for practising overnight with him.
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On December 08 2013 16:13 HeeroFX wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2013 15:23 Branman wrote:On December 08 2013 14:42 ETisME wrote:On December 08 2013 14:16 partydude89 wrote:On December 08 2013 13:37 ETisME wrote:
Even if he didn't get food poisoning from the pub, the fact that he goes to a pub, post a photo just the night before the tournament is a dumb move.
Going to pub and grabbing one beer or more certainly should not be the attitude if you are going to compete on the next day.
Not to mention drinking will have a negative impact onto your digestive system, it might not have caused it, it certainly made it worse in one way.
its so easy for people to say in hindsight "oh he shouldn't of gone out in all." But i'm sure he, like all other normal human beings, probably just wanted to go out with friends, have fun, and possibly have a beer or two. i don't know how its "dumb" to post a picture of you going to pub the day before an online tournament. if he had posted a video of himself getting totally hammered or something then i could see it being a dumb move, but he can't post a picture of himself going out with friends? Um. Except he has a tournament to attain the next day? I am sure a normal human being would set his priority straight and be prepared for the match instead of posting photo of him chilling the night before a competition, especially when he is a figurehead, branded with one of the biggest esport team, then go on being ill and can't play in the tournament? And it is dumb to post that photo because he has a tournament to play the next day. Instead of showing how hard working he is, he shows us one reason why he didn't play or didn't give all his best. even uni students would not post them hanging out in bar the night before their final, they would post photos of how crowded the library is or the study notes all over the desk. Is it really hard for normal people to tell their friend that he has a tournament to play tomorrow and so he should he focusing on that first? This is super patronizing. Do people seriously think that being a pro player means devoting 100% of all of your time to preparing for a match or have this idea that if you are doing something other than practicing Starcraft that you are somehow not taking things seriously? Here's the thing, practice the night before a match isn't going to help you that much. You make a comparison to a university final, and the two things are completely different. Taking a normal university exam is exercising your medium-term memory, that's why studying the night before helps. Starcraft doesn't test your medium or short term preparation, it tests your long term preparation. This point should be pretty obvious because players like Scarlett, Bomber, and Jaedong just demonstrated that they can travel around the globe and show good results. A better university analogy would be to PhD qualifier exams. When I took those, I did 0 studying the weekend before the exam, because my professors specifically told me to not study-- I had spent the previous 3 months studying non-stop. It was far more important to rest my mind and get mentally prepared for this test of long-term memory. Starcraft is likely very similar where plenty of pro players will tell stories of doing things to relax before big games. After all, the work has already been done and put in. An extra 3 hours of practice isn't going to make a big difference in your play; it could possibly even hurt it. Getting yourself into a relaxed state of mind is by far the most important thing that a player can do. In this case if Demu had a drink or two with some friends, then so what? The only thing I could potentially fault him for is if he actually threw caution to the wind and ended up getting completely drunk to the point where he would be hungover the next day; that would be something worth disapproving of. However, there is a lot of room between having a drink or two and binge drinking. I'd think that if he was sloppy drunk the night before a match, EG would take some disciplinary action because it is in their best interests to have their players in top form for matches. If Demuslim got food poisoning or some other sickness, then that is a random event unrelated to any decisions that he made and would warrant no further action. The whole "you shouldn't have gone to a bar the night before a match" really doesn't show an understanding of what players lives are actually like or what going to a bar actually entails. I think it looks bad. His job is to win games in the name of EG. He doesn't get a lot of chances to do that so ya he should have been more responsible. Imagine going to work and being 2 hung over to work you will get fired.
Why are you assuming he was hung over? Because he was at a bar? It isn't irresponsible to relax the night before a competition, in fact that makes a lot of sense. Past that all you're doing is making the silly assumption that 'sick' means 'drunk'.
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On December 08 2013 16:26 ETisME wrote:
Umm a lot of pros actually say they would study up their opponent or practising with practice partner instead of going out to relax..
I don't know where you got the impression from.
Read up the KR interviews, some pros even complain about the lack of practise partner or thank you their partner for practising overnight with him.
What is the time frame on that? The night before or the week before? Practicing overnight the night before a match is probably the dumbest thing you could do. It's far more important for your body and mind to be in a good state at the time of your match. The extra few hours of practice the night before a match isn't going to actually help your skill level, but I could see it as kind of a coping mechanism.
Practicing overnight in the days before a match. Go for it, that's when the practice actually matters. That's when you need to sharpen your build orders so that it becomes second nature. I could be wrong, but it seems pretty obvious that if you are still working on your builds the night before a match, you're pretty far behind the curve in preparation.
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It's not stupid considering the interview is for the winner, not lose.
And you can practise execution, it's not all about the build.
Crank for example practised damn hard before the gstl final. I doubt he was going out for drinking the night before.
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Wow this is the first tournament in ages where it actually feels like everyone lost. Especially TB, man all that effort with securing a sponsor / running the tournament and players don't even give a fuck.
Out night before, sick for work the day after. Haha where I work everyone knows what that means. Also sounds like half of you never been properly hungover :D
Anyways whether he got blackout drunk or not, nobody will know, maybe he got pregnant hence the vomiting.
I also don't think TB can just postpone games willy-nilly because players like will just walk all over him and take the piss.
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DeMusliM did not have a legitimate reason to forfeit his last game. He had a reason to not play his best, but it was no excuse to just get up and leave and screw over TB, the sponsor, and his fans.
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Must suck for Demu to get so much flak for forfeiting the final game when he has the slightly more legitimate reason than Major who forfeited because... lag. Guess that comes with being on EG and a popular player.
Either way, it's a shame this had to happen and I feel Major should've just played out his final game even if it did lag, for Demu - if he already played 3 games then he might as well 11/11 the last one/two and be done with it but I get not wanting to play when you're feeling that bad. I sincerely hope TB doesn't see this as a sign to not do tournaments like this anymore as this just seems bad luck at this point.
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Why do we think this is even related to drink?
Roughly looking at the times he'd have almost a day since he'd been drinking.
Going by the rough measure of 1 unit being processed per hour that would mean Demuslim would've had to have over 24 units of alcohol. The legal driving amount is roughly 4 units.
Demuslim would've had to have been paralytic/stomach pumping if he were to still be throwing up now, assuming average figures.
The rough outline is if Demu got paralytic drunk knowing full well that a tournament was coming up then he'd be in the wrong, otherwise he's not.
Either way a witch hunt is not needed.
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Just came here and don't know the whole story, but going out a day before you have a tournament game? No matter if you drink or not, you don't even need to grind games that last night but use that time to either prepare mentally like think about the game or just relax at home, go to sleep earlier, etc. Unless you don't really care about the tournament then nothing really matters i guess...
So that's two viewpoints, nr 3 would be a genuine sickness that made him not able to play, but from the posts here that seems highy doubtly.
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Wow, glad that I didn't tune in to that show... but I really feel for TB being screwed over again... -.-
Maybe tournaments on NA are just not supposed to be, so how about a Shoutcraft EU next? :D
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I love how IdrA takes the opporunity to talk some hidden smack about the players he doesn't respect 
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On December 08 2013 13:37 ETisME wrote:
Going to pub and grabbing one beer or more certainly should not be the attitude if you are going to compete on the next day.
Not to mention drinking will have a negative impact onto your digestive system, it might not have caused it, it certainly made it worse in one way.
You're either 14 or have stayed home your entire life. The fact that you even suggested that having a beer or two is somehow demonstrating poor "attitude" for a starcraft game the next day is simply ridiculous. Having a beer or two over lunch or dinner is common as fuck. Unlike the exaggerated hollywood movies over which you seem to have built your misguided preconceptions about alcohol consumption, most people aren't raging alcoholics who wake up with their head dipped in a toilet bowl the next day.
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Wait did I read that correctly, he forfeit because he was hungover. Wtf
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Wow a guy gets sick and everybody smash him,what a nice community.
Major leaving for lag is probably worse than that but still understandable.
TB has bad luck.He should have hold hole tournament on Sunday and avoid NorthCom altogether.
Too much unnecessary drama imho.
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On December 08 2013 15:23 Branman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2013 14:42 ETisME wrote:On December 08 2013 14:16 partydude89 wrote:On December 08 2013 13:37 ETisME wrote:
Even if he didn't get food poisoning from the pub, the fact that he goes to a pub, post a photo just the night before the tournament is a dumb move.
Going to pub and grabbing one beer or more certainly should not be the attitude if you are going to compete on the next day.
Not to mention drinking will have a negative impact onto your digestive system, it might not have caused it, it certainly made it worse in one way.
its so easy for people to say in hindsight "oh he shouldn't of gone out in all." But i'm sure he, like all other normal human beings, probably just wanted to go out with friends, have fun, and possibly have a beer or two. i don't know how its "dumb" to post a picture of you going to pub the day before an online tournament. if he had posted a video of himself getting totally hammered or something then i could see it being a dumb move, but he can't post a picture of himself going out with friends? Um. Except he has a tournament to attain the next day? I am sure a normal human being would set his priority straight and be prepared for the match instead of posting photo of him chilling the night before a competition, especially when he is a figurehead, branded with one of the biggest esport team, then go on being ill and can't play in the tournament? And it is dumb to post that photo because he has a tournament to play the next day. Instead of showing how hard working he is, he shows us one reason why he didn't play or didn't give all his best. even uni students would not post them hanging out in bar the night before their final, they would post photos of how crowded the library is or the study notes all over the desk. Is it really hard for normal people to tell their friend that he has a tournament to play tomorrow and so he should he focusing on that first? This is super patronizing. Do people seriously think that being a pro player means devoting 100% of all of your time to preparing for a match or have this idea that if you are doing something other than practicing Starcraft that you are somehow not taking things seriously? Here's the thing, practice the night before a match isn't going to help you that much. You make a comparison to a university final, and the two things are completely different. Taking a normal university exam is exercising your medium-term memory, that's why studying the night before helps. Starcraft doesn't test your medium or short term preparation, it tests your long term preparation. This point should be pretty obvious because players like Scarlett, Bomber, and Jaedong just demonstrated that they can travel around the globe and show good results. A better university analogy would be to PhD qualifier exams. When I took those, I did 0 studying the weekend before the exam, because my professors specifically told me to not study-- I had spent the previous 3 months studying non-stop. It was far more important to rest my mind and get mentally prepared for this test of long-term memory. Starcraft is likely very similar where plenty of pro players will tell stories of doing things to relax before big games. After all, the work has already been done and put in. An extra 3 hours of practice isn't going to make a big difference in your play; it could possibly even hurt it. Getting yourself into a relaxed state of mind is by far the most important thing that a player can do. In this case if Demu had a drink or two with some friends, then so what? The only thing I could potentially fault him for is if he actually threw caution to the wind and ended up getting completely drunk to the point where he would be hungover the next day; that would be something worth disapproving of. However, there is a lot of room between having a drink or two and binge drinking. I'd think that if he was sloppy drunk the night before a match, EG would take some disciplinary action because it is in their best interests to have their players in top form for matches. If Demuslim got food poisoning or some other sickness, then that is a random event unrelated to any decisions that he made and would warrant no further action. The whole "you shouldn't have gone to a bar the night before a match" really doesn't show an understanding of what players lives are actually like or what going to a bar actually entails.
I have kept myself out of the discussion, but I just wanted to point out a few reasons why that post does not make any sense at all (as far as I understand):
1) nobody has been talking about 100% of their time, just the couple of days before a very important match
2) nobody has been demanding him grinding games till the very last second, but that he doesn't do activities that might hinder his performance in the next day. What you described in your university analogy can also be counted as proper preparation.
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On December 08 2013 19:04 JoeSchmoe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2013 13:37 ETisME wrote:
Going to pub and grabbing one beer or more certainly should not be the attitude if you are going to compete on the next day.
Not to mention drinking will have a negative impact onto your digestive system, it might not have caused it, it certainly made it worse in one way.
You're either 14 or have stayed home your entire life. The fact that you even suggested that having a beer or two is somehow demonstrating poor "attitude" for a starcraft game the next day is simply ridiculous. Having a beer or two over lunch or dinner is common as fuck. Unlike the exaggerated hollywood movies over which you seem to have built your misguided preconceptions about alcohol consumption, most people aren't raging alcoholics who wake up with their head dipped in a toilet bowl the next day.
um sorry but all your guesses are wrong.
I am not saying drinking beer or two is poor attitude, I am saying it is poor attitude to drink just one NIGHT before the match.
It's not just a Starcraft game, it's a tournament game, and him as a professional player, should be more professional about it.
I am also not saying the beer is the reason why he would get sick on the next day.
I am saying drinking beer ONE NIGHT before the tournament is a poor attitude.
If you have been in any sport team, your coach would have told you to stay off alcohol because of its impact on your body.
It might not have been the sole cause, but it certainly contributed to his body condition. Is this such a hard concept to grasp?
It's the same idea why you shouldn't eat raw seafood just one day/night before anything important.
and from the chatlog he posted, it certainly doesn't help that he didn't even bother to mention of his body condition. That is just disrespectful for TB
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EPT
