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On November 10 2013 10:39 liberate71 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 10:37 templar rage wrote:On November 10 2013 10:35 Rostam wrote:On November 10 2013 10:33 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:30 aintz wrote:On November 10 2013 10:29 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:27 Zealously wrote:On November 10 2013 10:24 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:23 liberate71 wrote:On November 10 2013 10:22 Caladan wrote:Sad. Another faceless champion. At least a Kespa player won.  GGs! Thanks ESL for this fantastic production! Your smileys dont make up for your silly comments sOs is the definition of faceless. Most people didn't know he existed before this tournament. And he cheesed the entire finals. What a joke. Please never come into an LR thread again I'm hosting a barcraft and it was dead silent in here because no one cares about sOs. I honestly liked his play - it was neat, and some new strats I never expected to see (hidden expansion in a finals, say WHAT!?). But his story is 0. yall are a bunch of lame haters then. but you're probaby sitting home alone spreading hate on the internet anyways. I'm not hating! How can you argue that sOs is in any way a fan favorite!? He's maybe top 100 in terms of name recognition. It's fucking boring if the same players are constantly placing high and winning every tournament. New fan favorites need to emerge for things to stay interesting. Just because he doesn't have a big fanbase now doesn't mean he never will, and it doesn't mean you should make 100 posts in this thread whining about how he's killing esports by not throwing the finals. Guess what, it's fucking boring when players you don't give a shit about win tournaments too. How did you start to give a shit about said players, enlighten me?
When they give me a reason to.
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On November 10 2013 10:40 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 10:39 Wombat_NI wrote:On November 10 2013 10:37 Sabu113 wrote:On November 10 2013 10:35 Wombat_NI wrote:On November 10 2013 10:32 mordk wrote:On November 10 2013 10:29 Ragnarork wrote:On November 10 2013 10:27 mordk wrote:On November 10 2013 10:26 Ragnarork wrote:On November 10 2013 10:25 ninjamyst wrote:On November 10 2013 10:24 Fusilero wrote:
[quote]
So besides winning, what does jaedong have over shy in terms of personality? his legend, his emotions, his fans. when JD wins a match, the crowd reacts way stronger than other players. Yeah so if you're not a BW legend you can't win a tournament ? Good mentality. Oh, and sOs was sHy before, and not an unknown at all (and he's been there since the switch, placing consistently high). Being there all the time yet still being faceless shows just HOW FACELESS sOs actually is... Even aLive is more memorable Well, I can see his face pretty well, and I remember him since he's entered Code S (he was one of the first Kespa players to do it). The fact you don't remember the guy doesn't mean he's faceless... Not just me though... there's even a guy hosting a barcraft saying how faceless he is. Not many people care about him, that doesn't mean he's a bad player, he's great, he just doesn't inspire the amount of fans other players do, he's a lot like aLive except sOs is a far better player It's nonsensical lol. People have no consistency when it comes to the 'faceless' tag. Flash is hardly a beacon of charisma for one? Is it playstyle, is it results, is it charisma? Wtf do you have to do to NOT be faceless other than not being a player some butthurt asshole doesn't like? Hell even posts like 'shame Dear didn't do it, he's much better than sOs' when the latter is a paragon of wackiness and improvisation, and the former is the definition of a really solid Protoss player? Wait. Dear is the definition of a really solid Protoss player. He's merely a synonym, Rain is the one who got to the dictionary first  Rain is definition of really safe Protoss player. Not solid, safe. Oh my god. No.
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On November 10 2013 10:35 Rostam wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 10:33 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:30 aintz wrote:On November 10 2013 10:29 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:27 Zealously wrote:On November 10 2013 10:24 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:23 liberate71 wrote:On November 10 2013 10:22 Caladan wrote:Sad. Another faceless champion. At least a Kespa player won. GGs! Thanks ESL for this fantastic production! Your smileys dont make up for your silly comments sOs is the definition of faceless. Most people didn't know he existed before this tournament. And he cheesed the entire finals. What a joke. Please never come into an LR thread again I'm hosting a barcraft and it was dead silent in here because no one cares about sOs. I honestly liked his play - it was neat, and some new strats I never expected to see (hidden expansion in a finals, say WHAT!?). But his story is 0. yall are a bunch of lame haters then. but you're probaby sitting home alone spreading hate on the internet anyways. I'm not hating! How can you argue that sOs is in any way a fan favorite!? He's maybe top 100 in terms of name recognition. It's fucking boring if the same players are constantly placing high and winning every tournament. New fan favorites need to emerge for things to stay interesting. Just because he doesn't have a big fanbase now doesn't mean he never will, and it doesn't mean you should make 100 posts in this thread whining about how he's killing esports by not throwing the finals.
There are several factors that produce increased fanfare in sports. Chief among them are Dynasties, Rivalries, and Underdogs.
I love SC2. I absolutely love it. I watched every single match of WCS NA and EU this year. But the players with the most of each of the three items I mentioned simply keep not winning. What's the biggest rivalry in SC2? It's not IdrA vs MMA anymore. TL vs EG? They're besties now. When was the last Dynasty? Mvp? Everyone loves jurgen. Lost in RO16. Who was the biggest underdog story? NaNiwa, out in ro16.
I'm not hating on sOs, I'm really not. He just doesn't do anything to grow the community. Try explaining him to a new viewer - you can't. He's not the BW god that came to SC2 and continued his legacy. He's not the only foreigner in a Korean-dominated world. He's not the up-and-coming young guy with sick micro. He's not the "new best zerg". He's not the "new best terran". He's not the aggressive Korean Protoss who learned English and has cool ceremonies.
He's just some gamer.
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On November 10 2013 10:40 Elite_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 10:38 maartendq wrote:On November 10 2013 10:34 Elite_ wrote:On November 10 2013 10:32 Ammanas wrote:On November 10 2013 10:24 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:23 liberate71 wrote:On November 10 2013 10:22 Caladan wrote:Sad. Another faceless champion. At least a Kespa player won. GGs! Thanks ESL for this fantastic production! Your smileys dont make up for your silly comments sOs is the definition of faceless. Most people didn't know he existed before this tournament. And he cheesed the entire finals. What a joke. Then most people haven't watched any SC2 in the first half of this year. sOs was in semis of first GSL, he was 2nd in WCS Season 1 Finals, he was 2nd in Asian Martial Arts Tournament... And more importantly, he is the guy, who created brand new styles of protoss play in both PvZ AND PvT throughout his Proleague games. Also was the Protoss with most wins throughout Proleague AND Protoss Proleague MVP. Carried WJS to victory in the regular season, together with Soulkey. Had MORE wins than Soulkey, iirc. So yeah, fuck most people (and they should also shut up and do their data check...) Faceless doesn't mean he doesn't show entertaining games or get good results... Faceless means he shows 0 personality... I'd say he fits the description of faceless quite well, but that's just me. To be honest, Jaedong isn't exactly someone who shows a lot of personality either. Neither has Flash. I honestly don't care about personality, I just want to see insanely good players play insanely good games, and they delivered big time this weekend. Jaedong at least tries to interact with the foreign community by speaking some English... and I wasn't trying to say you shouldn't like a player because he's faceless, I was explaining to the guy that was saying good results =/= faceless that he was wrong.
Flash also has this "never-say-die," attitude which is pretty sweet.
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On November 10 2013 10:39 Strela wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 10:37 moon_fall wrote:
Grandfinal between Jaedong and sOs is actually a good example of difference between SC BW and SC2. In BW, "hard skill" like micro and macro are all that matters. Hence a good player will be good throughout his career. SC2, on the other hand, somewhat focuses on "soft skill" like mind-game and building hard counter armies, which is much more dicey. So a legendary player in SC2 will not stay in legend for long. I believe Jaedong had a remarkable year in 2013 in sc2.
yeah, and Jaedong IS really good at the "soft skill" aspect like mind games, he just got outdone by sOs.
It's not like mind games and counters didn't matter in BW, Flash was the king of that shit, he just sucks at it in SC2 even though his micro and macro's still there.
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Aaaaaand another random tournament winner. SOS ? Oh Cmooon, as if he truely was the best....The only wcs finals champion i fully agree and understand is innovation in season 1, he just dominated everything and everyone, noone (including himself) entered his level again.
For being #2 all the time, jd has something noone else has.....consistency
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I have to say as a more general esports fan that is not exclusively following sc2, if you compare the WCS finals to TI3 or the LoL world finals I can't help but feel a little underwhelmed.
I really think that SC2 production has been somewhat stale for a long time, with only the ESL crew really pushing for some new stuff.
As an overall "broadcast" experience I thought they could have done a lot more... :/
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Time to evacuate this thread before I catch anymore negativity from emotional fans. peace out, ty blizzard for good tournament
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Norway25712 Posts
On November 10 2013 10:37 moon_fall wrote:
Grandfinal between Jaedong and sOs is actually a good example of difference between SC BW and SC2. In BW, "hard skill" like micro and macro are all that matters. Hence a good player will be good throughout his career. SC2, on the other hand, somewhat focuses on "soft skill" like mind-game and building hard counter armies, which is much more dicey. So a legendary player in SC2 will not stay in legend for long.
I don't get it.
Both of the players were BW players.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On November 10 2013 10:40 10bulgares wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 10:39 lolfail9001 wrote:On November 10 2013 10:38 Steins;Gate wrote:
sOs is going to be at red bull grounds ^^
and then dreamhack. Jaedong still has one last chance this year! sOs got his last tournament of year ride. Soulkey will be at WCG, sOs at DH:W Whom should i choose? Soulkey got owned by innovation and won't be at wcg.
Innovation goes to DH:W and Soulkey goes to replace him. Get your facts straight.
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That ending was... odd... I guess they just have to clear out RIGHT NOW. What if the series had gone on longer?
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Amazing production, really good job, and amazing games.
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On November 10 2013 10:40 10bulgares wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 10:39 lolfail9001 wrote:On November 10 2013 10:38 Steins;Gate wrote:
sOs is going to be at red bull grounds ^^
and then dreamhack. Jaedong still has one last chance this year! sOs got his last tournament of year ride. Soulkey will be at WCG, sOs at DH:W Whom should i choose? Soulkey got owned by innovation and won't be at wcg.
Innovation isn't going... because of DH Winter.
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The only sad thing is that somehow some way getting all these second places is seen as a bad thing. This scene is stupidly competitive and JD has been among the at least top 3 most successful players of the year while also becoming the most successful esports player ever in the process. "But oh noes he's getting second" Guess what, the people who took first place from him was never the same guy, I'd rather be JD with 5 second places than any of the other guys with just one first place even if that is a huge accomplishment as well
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On November 10 2013 10:38 Elite_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 10:36 Clefairy wrote:On November 10 2013 10:34 Elite_ wrote:On November 10 2013 10:32 Ammanas wrote:On November 10 2013 10:24 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:23 liberate71 wrote:On November 10 2013 10:22 Caladan wrote:Sad. Another faceless champion. At least a Kespa player won. GGs! Thanks ESL for this fantastic production! Your smileys dont make up for your silly comments sOs is the definition of faceless. Most people didn't know he existed before this tournament. And he cheesed the entire finals. What a joke. Then most people haven't watched any SC2 in the first half of this year. sOs was in semis of first GSL, he was 2nd in WCS Season 1 Finals, he was 2nd in Asian Martial Arts Tournament... And more importantly, he is the guy, who created brand new styles of protoss play in both PvZ AND PvT throughout his Proleague games. Also was the Protoss with most wins throughout Proleague AND Protoss Proleague MVP. Carried WJS to victory in the regular season, together with Soulkey. Had MORE wins than Soulkey, iirc. So yeah, fuck most people (and they should also shut up and do their data check...) Faceless doesn't mean he doesn't show entertaining games or get good results... Faceless means he shows 0 personality... I'd say he fits the description of faceless quite well, but that's just me. sOs is funny in Korean. How is anyone that doesn't speak Korean supposed to know this?
Why do players have to be your dancing monkeys?
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On November 10 2013 10:38 Oddball28 wrote:
Warning made no sense, poster is simply nailing it.
He did the martyr. Otherwise quite a reasonable post.
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On November 10 2013 10:41 Cheren wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 10:39 Strela wrote:On November 10 2013 10:37 moon_fall wrote:
Grandfinal between Jaedong and sOs is actually a good example of difference between SC BW and SC2. In BW, "hard skill" like micro and macro are all that matters. Hence a good player will be good throughout his career. SC2, on the other hand, somewhat focuses on "soft skill" like mind-game and building hard counter armies, which is much more dicey. So a legendary player in SC2 will not stay in legend for long. I believe Jaedong had a remarkable year in 2013 in sc2. yeah, and Jaedong IS really good at the "soft skill" aspect like mind games, he just got outdone by sOs. It's not like mind games and counters didn't matter in BW, Flash was the king of that shit, he just sucks at it in SC2 even though his micro and macro's still there.
Although to be fair, Flash has a lot of those "what...?" moments.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
On November 10 2013 10:40 bittman wrote:
When Kespa was switching over, shy/sos was basically the first player that they were praising as really good at sc2.
I'm happy to see him win a big thing. He's been one of the most consistently good players this year.
I thought it was soulkey that first got attention in SC2 since he was reportedly the first to make GM.
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United States97276 Posts
On November 10 2013 10:40 bittman wrote:
When Kespa was switching over, shy/sos was basically the first player that they were praising as really good at sc2.
I'm happy to see him win a big thing. He's been one of the most consistently good players this year.
I thought it was Soulkey because he was the first to hit GM among the Kespa players. Maybe I'm just confusing the WJS players since I didn't know them too well back then.
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Anyone else got the feeling like it was more JD losing/not playing his best, rather than sOs outplaying JD?
I mean, coming back in game 1 was awesome, I had it called for JD when sOs was at half JDs supply, but the rest of the games, I think JD was not playing his absolute best as he was against Dear.
Anyway, so stocked that we got a protoss champion at Blizzcon! So few protoss champions lately, except for Dears' recent wins.
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EPT
